Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Since we are on the topic of forgotten gaming heroes, i want to bring to the table the 4 main characters from the Neptunia franchise.

Do they have chance to join the Battle?

 

[Chuderz]

I wish we would have gotten an actual victory theme for Kazuya. I was legitimately hoping they'd use the Tekken announcer for the victory screen so that was awesome but no victory theme just feels empty, pointless and objectively wrong. It's one of those baffling decisions Sakurai makes sometimes like when he decided to order the roster by development... It looks like a mess Sakurai... There's your glaring Sakurai bias on full display every time you select a character.

Sakurai: The Tekken announcer will announce the victory for Kazuya!
Me: :D
Sakurai: And no victory fanfare! Just like the original game! A first for Smash!
Me: :/

 

[Digital Hazard]

I wish we would have gotten an actual victory theme for Kazuya. I was legitimately hoping they'd use the Tekken announcer for the victory screen so that was awesome but no victory theme just feels empty, pointless and objectively wrong. It's one of those baffling decisions Sakurai makes sometimes like when he decided to order the roster by development... It looks like a mess Sakurai... There's your glaring Sakurai bias on full display every time you select a character.

Sakurai: The Tekken announcer will announce the victory for Kazuya!
Me: :D
Sakurai: And no victory fanfare! Just like the original game! A first for Smash!
Me: :/

It's worse when you win a team match with Kazuya front and center.

No victory theme, just... Awkward silence.

Granted I'm not a fan of how when that happens with Joker too, you just get his results screen alone, but at least that can be excused on how it fits that he, ahem, steals the show.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Bungie has limitless potential to unite friends around the world.

We have found a partner in PlayStation that shares our dream and is committed to accelerating our creative vision of building generation-spanning entertainment.

Our journey begins today.https://t.co/PLuVn48zdy pic.twitter.com/kAhRbAg3vD

— Bungie (@Bungie) January 31, 2022

And so, the arms race continues...

Also, RIP Destiny in Smash. You were never happening before Halo or Doom, but now you'll likely never happen at all.

 

[Gengar84]

Bungie has limitless potential to unite friends around the world.

We have found a partner in PlayStation that shares our dream and is committed to accelerating our creative vision of building generation-spanning entertainment.

Our journey begins today.https://t.co/PLuVn48zdy pic.twitter.com/kAhRbAg3vD

— Bungie (@Bungie) January 31, 2022

And so, the arms race continues...

Also, RIP Destiny in Smash. You were never happening before Halo or Doom, but now you'll likely never happen at all.

That’s pretty funny, I’m not going to lie. Microsoft now owns Crash and Spyro and Sony owns the creators of Halo.

 

[dream1ng]

That’s pretty funny, I’m not going to lie. Microsoft now owns Crash and Spyro and Sony owns the creators of Halo.

And as Nintendo ever tries to buy back its own stock it too acquires its greatest enemy.

 

[Sucumbio]

Ha! All these mergers and acquisitions. This'll be a year to remember.

 

[Stratos]

Nintendo needs to get the Banjo-Kazooie series again as well as any other Rare video game that debuted on a Nintendo console, let alone the whole of Rare thanks to the good old days that the two companies had a good partnership.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ha! All these mergers and acquisitions. This'll be a year to remember.

The month isn't even over, and it's already a year to remember. Imagine if the next Direct started with Nintendo announcing an acquisition or something.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nintendo needs to get the Banjo-Kazooie series again as well as any other Rare video game that debuted on a Nintendo console, let alone the whole of Rare thanks to the good old days that the two companies had a good partnership.

And let Rare be involved with the Donkey Kong franchise at the very least, not have complete control over it, but let them have their freedom again with this series.

 

[Gengar84]

Nintendo needs to get the Banjo-Kazooie series again as well as any other Rare video game that debuted on a Nintendo console, let alone the whole of Rare thanks to the good old days that the two companies had a good partnership.

I’d love that but I’m happy that Nintendo and Microsoft seem to be on good terms so we might still get more classic Rare games on Nintendo consoles in the future.

 

[Stratos]

I would not like the Super Smash Bros. series to stop, just like any other fan of it. There are so many video game characters to come as newcomers.

 

[Dinoman96]

Nintendo needs to get the Banjo-Kazooie series again as well as any other Rare video game that debuted on a Nintendo console, let alone the whole of Rare thanks to the good old days that the two companies had a good partnership.

They had the chance to own Banjo and Rare back in 2002 and they turned it all down. Why would they need Banjo when they already have their own premier 3D platformer franchise, whose latest installment may very well just be Banjo-Threeie wearing Mario's skin? Sea of Thieves is also Rare's most successful game ever so they're certainly not missing the Nintendo days very much.

My hot take is that even if Nintendo retained the rights to Banjo, that IP really wouldn't be in a better state anymore than it is today. We'd gotten Banjo in Smash early as in Brawl and we would of had Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie on Wii/Wii U Virtual Console, but outside of that, the series would of likely just been on the same shelf as F-Zero, Golden Sun or Punch-Out!!. I guess that's where we're at under Microsoft, but I dunno, at least we got the fancy HD remasters of the N64 games in addition to Banjo being in Smash and also now NSO. So it's something.

EDIT: ****, even Donkey Freaking Kong can barely maintain its relevance after losing its primary developer after 2002. What chance would Banjo have?

 

[Shroob]

Nintendo: Buys rights to Banjo and Kazooie

Fans rejoice

10 years later with nothing aside from VC ports

 

[Idon]

Nintendo: Buys rights to Banjo and Kazooie

Fans rejoice

10 years later with nothing aside from VC ports

View attachment 343965

Companies in general buying IPs and doing nothing with them.

 

[RileyXY1]

It would be great if Nintendo bought out Level 5. They're completely struggling right now and they're pretty close to Nintendo anyways.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Also, for what it's worth, Jim Ryan (the guy in charge of Playstation, I believe) confirmed that they have plans for more acquisitions at some point.

It would be great if Nintendo bought out Level 5. They're completely struggling right now and they're pretty close to Nintendo anyways.

I'd say Level-5 would be a safe bet. If anybody can get them back on their feet, it's probably Nintendo.

 

[Shroob]

Also, for what it's worth, Jim Ryan (the guy in charge of Playstation, I believe) confirmed that they have plans for more acquisitions at some point.

I'd say Level-5 would be a safe bet. If anybody can get them back on their feet, it's probably Nintendo.

Can you hear it?

The sound of corporate monopolies being constructed.

 

[RileyXY1]

Also, for what it's worth, Jim Ryan (the guy in charge of Playstation, I believe) confirmed that they have plans for more acquisitions at some point.

I'd say Level-5 would be a safe bet. If anybody can get them back on their feet, it's probably Nintendo.

It would also mean that Professor Layton, Yokai Watch, and Inazuma Eleven, among other IPs, are now Nintendo first parties.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The gobbling up of studios/publishers feels like the kind of arms race that Nintendo typically avoids doing, outside 2nd party companies like Next Level. It's not too dissimilar to how they've more or less ignored the competition for cutting edge hardware, the other big two have done.

That's not even getting into the fact that a lot of these are Western acquisitions and given Nintendo's dominance of the Japanese market, they likely aren't as focused on getting American or European AAA developers anyway.

 

[Ivander]

It would be great if Nintendo bought out Level 5. They're completely struggling right now and they're pretty close to Nintendo anyways.

I'd say Level-5 would be a safe bet. If anybody can get them back on their feet, it's probably Nintendo.

I sorta want to see if Level-5 gets a chance to do another Dragon Quest game. They were responsible for Dragon Quest VIII and IX, both of which were great games and I thought I heard somewhere that Level-5 was trying to talk with Square regarding doing another Dragon Quest game.

Otherwise, I'd be okay with Nintendo getting Level-5, although whether it happens or not is another story.

 

[Yamat08]

And let Rare be involved with the Donkey Kong franchise at the very least, not have complete control over it, but let them have their freedom again with this series.

But aren't the people at Rare today NOT the same people who were there during its glory days? As I recall, most if not all of them have departed for other studios after getting fed up with some of Microsoft's policies and bad decision-making (like turning the next Banjo-Kazooie game into a car-builder that nobody asked for). I don't think getting them back into Donkey Kong will make it any better than what Retro's doing now (and the few unpopular design choices those games did have, such as the lack of Kremlings, was due to Nintendo's meddling anyway).

 

[Shroob]

But aren't the people at Rare today NOT the same people who were there during its glory days? As I recall, most if not all of them have departed for other studios after getting fed up with some of Microsoft's policies and bad decision-making (like turning the next Banjo-Kazooie game into a car-builder that nobody asked for). I don't think getting them back into Donkey Kong will make it any better than what Retro's doing now (and the few unpopular design choices those games did have, such as the lack of Kremlings, was due to Nintendo's meddling anyway).

There's also that too.


The cries of "Nintendo should buy Rare and have them work on Banjo/DK" are honestly some of the most uninformed takes I've seen recently.



Most if not all of the people who made Donkey Kong and Banjo what they were don't work at Rare anymore, they all moved to Playtonic.

 

[Arcanir]

Yeah, if you're looking for someone to take on the DK franchise then Playtonic would be your choice over Rare. Not only have most of the people who worked on the original DK Country trilogy moved on to that company, they have put out a recent 2D platformer that's shown that they still have experience in that genre. Rare has not shown much indication that they'd be up to the task whether from staffing or recent output, and any suggestions to the contrary are putting too much value on nostalgia rather than recent history.

 

[Dinoman96]

Most if not all of the people who made Donkey Kong and Banjo what they were don't work at Rare anymore, they all moved to Playtonic.

'cept for the man who actually directed and design those games.

Gregg Mayles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But aren't the people at Rare today NOT the same people who were there during its glory days? As I recall, most if not all of them have departed for other studios after getting fed up with some of Microsoft's policies and bad decision-making (like turning the next Banjo-Kazooie game into a car-builder that nobody asked for). I don't think getting them back into Donkey Kong will make it any better than what Retro's doing now (and the few unpopular design choices those games did have, such as the lack of Kremlings, was due to Nintendo's meddling anyway).

We still doing this?

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Nuts & Bolts was absolutely 100% on Rare and Gregg Mayles themselves just not wanting to make another traditional platformer. It had literally nothing to do with Microsoft.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Granted it was on a different system with a ludicrously strong install base, but Super Mario Galaxy coming out to critical acclaim & strong sales during Nuts and Bolt's development must have made that talk/outlook of platformers being stale, unpopular, & boring a little more awkward.

Realistcally a B-K game was likely going to struggle with a console demographic not really predisposed to its core genre, so at least Rare got an interesting title out of the whole thing.

 

[Chuderz]

It's worse when you win a team match with Kazuya front and center.

No victory theme, just... Awkward silence.

Granted I'm not a fan of how when that happens with Joker too, you just get his results screen alone, but at least that can be excused on how it fits that he, ahem, steals the show.

Oh yeah that's super awkward when that happens. Honestly it's just an objectively bad decision. At least Joker gets music. If Sakurai wanted to do something unique for Joker they could have used voiceclips from his crew exclaiming joy for Joker's victory or need to make a getaway after said victory, instead of the announcer doing the standard thing.

Bungie has limitless potential to unite friends around the world.

We have found a partner in PlayStation that shares our dream and is committed to accelerating our creative vision of building generation-spanning entertainment.

Our journey begins today.https://t.co/PLuVn48zdy pic.twitter.com/kAhRbAg3vD

— Bungie (@Bungie) January 31, 2022

And so, the arms race continues...

Also, RIP Destiny in Smash. You were never happening before Halo or Doom, but now you'll likely never happen at all.

Yeah didn't see that one coming. I knew Bungie was an option but I didn't think Sony would get 'em. I'm surprised actually considering I'm sure Microsoft would have counter-offered something higher. More acquisitions to come have been confirmed by both parties.

This sounds like a very strange deal too. Sony seemingly bought them to specifically make sure they didn't get bought out above all else. The little self-publishing portion of the statement is the peculiar factor that has me thinking this. I presume Sony didn't just throw billions at them to let them make multiplat games. Other than Destiny at least which I see as more a bargaining chip for negotiating COD multiplat access which I think is a good move at this point for both parties. So I'm thinking big AAA new IP from Bungie will be Sony exclusive content because overwhelming likely is that Sony finances its development. Smaller projects have a chance to be multiplat though.

Here's my speculation of acquisitions of each companies' potential buyouts minus Bungie at this point obviously.

Official - Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

I just want to reply to this too to see which ones of these that my most MWs fit. This got me curious, so I tallied what third parties have in terms of a relationship with Nintendo. Honorary Nintendo Character: :ultsimon::ultmegaman::ultbanjokazooie::ulthero3::ulthero4::ultbayonetta...

smashboards.com

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m really not a fan of all these acquisitions. Activision was an effort to improve the culture and eliminate the parasite there but going forward it’s going to get even stranger.

I guess the only ones I’m really ok with getting bought out are ones that are already known for having some pretty crap working conditions. Ubisoft, EA, Sega, and Konami are the ones off the top of my head.

Even then, having Sonic or Castlevania or Rayman be exclusive to either PlayStation or Xbox? Just feels weird man. I don’t like it.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Even then, having Sonic or Castlevania or Rayman be exclusive to either PlayStation or Xbox? Just feels weird man. I don’t like it.

I believe Microsoft could buy Ubisoft, while Konami and SEGA would unfortunely get bought by SONY if they had much money.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nintendo also should get PlayTonic under their wing of course. That's a no brainer. Imagine a DKC game by Nintendo EAD, Retro Studios, RARE and PlayTonic working together, or any sort of combination of these developers

 

[Dinoman96]

Nintendo also should get PlayTonic under their wing of course. That's a no brainer. Imagine a DKC game by Nintendo EAD, Retro Studios, RARE and PlayTonic working together, or any sort of combination of these developers

I certainly don't want them to get bought out by anyone, but after Impossible Lair, I certainly also wouldn't mind Nintendo pulling a MercurySteam and forming a partnership with Playtonic to make a new DK platformer.

It'd probably be dripping with much, much more Rare fanservice than Retro's games were, that's for sure. And it'd be pretty neat to see Steve Mayles, Kev Bayliss and Mark Stevenson, the artists who created much of the original DKC cast at Rare during the 90s, be able to create all new Kongs, Kremling types and enemies for the series after all this time.

 

[osby]

I genuinely cannot agree with big corporation acquisitions being a good thing for employees in the long run. Sure, if a ****ty company gets bought, they might have to sort out their problems. But what if big companies also treat workers badly? Who's gonna keep them responsible?

Monopolizing the industry is only going to make it easier for higher-ups to abuse people who work for them. Corporates are not your friends and they are not purchasing each other for the well-being of the employees.

 

[Chuderz]

I actually agree that Playtonic would be a great purchase for Nintendo or Microsoft but seems a little tricky at this point considering they sold a portion of their business to Tencent a couple of months ago.

Tencent buys stake in Yooka-Laylee studio Playtonic

Chinese tech conglomerate Tencent has bought a minority stake in Playtonic, the Derby-based developer behind Yooka-Layl…

www.eurogamer.net

It's just a minority stake though so technically they're still available as another boot for hire in the Acquisition Wars. I don't think Microsoft would care about sharing some profits with Tencent especially for such a small studio but I definitely see that being a dealbreaker for Nintendo.

I really stand by that the holy grail for Nintendo would be SEGA. It's just a natural fit and gets them the kind of production staff they need to really start pumping games out and SEGA even comes with IP that's a natural fit while also coming with others that'd expand upon Nintendo's appeal. I think no matter what sooner or later though Nintendo is going to have to make some moves here just like Sony. A lot of studios that'd be good for them wouldn't even be that huge of an investment comparatively. I bet Playtonic, Vanpool, Mercury Steam and Level-5 Games all together would barely crack over 2 billion tops.

I think the main issue for Nintendo is loyalty, functionality and the cost of maintaining studios. From what I hear Retro Studios was kind of a scam operation in its initial founding and it took a lot of strict management from Nintendo to get them back on track and hell even then their last game was released in 2014 close to 10 years ago.

 

[osby]

I really stand by that the holy grail for Nintendo would be SEGA. It's just a natural fit and gets them the kind of production staff they need to really start pumping games out and SEGA even comes with IP that's a natural fit while also coming with others that'd expand upon Nintendo's appeal.

The idea that Nintendo has an infinite amount of developers dying to work on underused IPs is a myth. Any Golden Sun and F-Zero fan can confirm this.

Restricting SEGA's games to a single console is also a terrible idea, especially considering they were one of the earlier Japanese developers that really embraced PC gaming.

 

[Gengar84]

All this talk about RARE and Playtonic remind me of what an underrated composer David Wise is. In my opinion, he made some of the very best soundtracks in gaming history with DKC, Battletoads, and more but he’s never really brought up when people talk about great video game composers. I really wish more of his music made it into Smash. It’s a shame that Tropical Freeze was almost entirely passed over.

 

[Perkilator]

Just for fun, post examples of two images that seem completely unrelated to most people, but are actually connected for certain people in the know. I'll start: pic.twitter.com/sIJGYLJ2tm

— Schaffrillas (@Schaffrillas) February 1, 2022

Three years and I still remember.

 

[Chuderz]

The idea that Nintendo has an infinite amount of developers dying to work on underused IPs is a myth. Any Golden Sun and F-Zero fan can confirm this.

Restricting SEGA's games to a single console is also a terrible idea, especially considering they were one of the earlier Japanese developers that really embraced PC gaming.

I know the "infinite" is hyperbole but 2 of the smaller ones I mentioned are in it deep with Nintendo already.

I don't understand why the idea of this being a myth has anything to do with what I said. Nintendo is kind of slow productively in general is what I'm saying. Their in-house division just isn't really enough. That's subjective of course but I've been a Switch owner since 2017. No year has topped the release year and that's just bad. Since then if you didn't like the major in-house Nintendo release of that year you were basically **** out of luck or had to settle for a smaller offering from them. While 2022 is finally looking to top 2017 that's just waaaaaaay too slow for a company that wants you to buy their hardware to play their games.

Additionally I don't really buy into the idea that studios wouldn't be eager to want to work on Nintendo's stuff. The IP is beloved, basically is guaranteed to not only sell but rarely go on sale which retains its value longer.

I'm also not attesting to whether it's a great thing for gamers or the industry or cultural space. I'm saying that I think it'd be good for Nintendo to have a larger productive capacity for the series like F-Zero and Golden Sun. Golden Sun for example can't be done because Camelot is too preoccupied with Mario Sports titles. Maybe SEGA could take on some of that burden to free them up for one last-ditch effort for the franchise? Or at the very least give Camelot of a chance at doing something else entirely whether that's a new IP or a pre-established one. SEGA certainly have experience doing Mario sports with the Olympic-themed games they did with Mario and Sonic crew and on top of that experience SEGA did the last F-Zero game on home consoles as well.

I think it'd be a great fit but I'd back up those modded Sonic games though. That modding community is an absolute treasure and I would be saddened to know Nintendo would most definitely be much more hostile to them. To address those issues though some legislation protecting the rights of emulation and modding needs to pass someday around the world. We shouldn't be looking at the issue in such a way that we just submit to the IP owner because it's not who buys who it's that's the problem it's how we view intellectual property itself as being belonging solely to the rights holder and not making equal space for the consumers to share in it that's the problem. It shouldn't be up to Nintendo or any IP owner. If you can't keep up with the community putting in the work for free then that's a condemnation of your business model and practices not the morality of the modders. They aren't thieves they're artists.

 

[Gengar84]

I know the "infinite" is hyperbole but 2 of the smaller ones I mentioned are in it deep with Nintendo already.

I don't understand why the idea of this being a myth has anything to do with what I said. Nintendo is kind of slow productively in general is what I'm saying. Their in-house division just isn't really enough. That's subjective of course but I've been a Switch owner since 2017. No year has topped the release year and that's just bad. Since then if you didn't like the major in-house Nintendo release of that year you were basically **** out of luck or had to settle for a smaller offering from them. While 2022 is finally looking to top 2017 that's just waaaaaaay too slow for a company that wants you to buy their hardware to play their games.

Additionally I don't really buy into the idea that studios wouldn't be eager to want to work on Nintendo's stuff. The IP is beloved, basically is guaranteed to not only sell but rarely go on sale which retains its value longer.

I'm also not attesting to whether it's a great thing for gamers or the industry or cultural space. I'm saying that I think it'd be good for Nintendo to have a larger productive capacity for the series like F-Zero and Golden Sun. Golden Sun for example can't be done because Camelot is too preoccupied with Mario Sports titles. Maybe SEGA could take on some of that burden to free them up for one last-ditch effort for the franchise? Or at the very least give Camelot of a chance at doing something else entirely whether that's a new IP or a pre-established one. SEGA certainly have experience doing Mario sports with the Olympic-themed games they did with Mario and Sonic crew and on top of that experience SEGA did the last F-Zero game on home consoles as well.

I think it'd be a great fit but I'd back up those modded Sonic games though. That modding community is an absolute treasure and I would be saddened to know Nintendo would most definitely be much more hostile to them. To address those issues though some legislation protecting the rights of emulation and modding needs to pass someday around the world. We shouldn't be looking at the issue in such a way that we just submit to the IP owner because it's not who buys who it's that's the problem it's how we view intellectual property itself as being belonging solely to the rights holder and not making equal space for the consumers to share in it that's the problem. It shouldn't be up to Nintendo or any IP owner. If you can't keep up with the community putting in the work for free then that's a condemnation of your business model and practices not the morality of the modders. They aren't thieves they're artists.

That’s one of my biggest problems with Nintendo. I was really into the modding scene in Brawl and had a ton of fun with the modding community and making a ton of mods of my own. I fell off after Brawl because of Nintendo’s stance against modding and fear of getting my console banned. I was never very tech savvy and leaned a lot more on the artistic side so I’m not confident I would do everything correctly to avoid getting banned. I bought the game and all the DLC so I really wish Nintendo wasn’t so hostile towards the modding community. As long as you aren’t pirating the game or profiting off of modding it I don’t see why it’s such a problem. I would love to get back into modding if Nintendo ever changes their stance.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

This is just a rumor but Jeff Grubb has hint that big acquisitions is coming. He hint that "It takes two to Tango", but that's it's not Take-two or HAzelight studios. Some people have speculate that it could be Capcom because Residewnt evil 5 have an achievement name "It takes two to tango".

Now this is just speculation and nothing could happen, but if Sony bought Capcom it would hurt a lot Smash (no Mega man, Ryu and Ken, Monster hunter, Phoenix Wright etc.)

Edit: Source

 

[Gengar84]

This is just a rumor but Jeff Grubb has hint that big acquisitions is coming. He hint that "It takes two to Tango", but that's it's not Take-two or HAzelight studios. Some people have speculate that it could be Capcom because Residewnt evil 5 have an achievement name "It takes two to tango".

Now this is just speculation and nothing could happen, but if Sony bought Capcom it would hurt a lot Smash (no Mega man, Ryu and Ken, Monster hunter, Phoenix Wright etc.)

Edit: Source

I hope that’s not true. It would suck losing Mega Man and Ryu in Smash.