Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CapitaineCrash]

In Brawl she was actually part of the forbidden seven, characters cut during development. So that's a reason for her not being in Brawl. Smash 4 was weird yeah, but maybe the planning for the characters went earlier than Tropical Freeze came around. Could simply be a timing issue, or the fact that the biggest game to date to the Donkey Kong franchises was DKC Returns which had no Dixie in it.

Yeah the development of Smash 4 started in 2012, and it was said that the roster has been chosen very early on. The only game appearance Dixie had between 2008 (Brawl release) and 2012 (Smash 4 development start) was Mario super sluggers (in 2008 too, a few months after Brawl release). Not counting Mario spin-off, her latest appearances at the time was actually DK Jungle climber in 2007.

 

[Stratos]

The Black Knight is one of the characters who have not yet arrived as newcomers, but if they put him in the next Super Smash Bros. game. I would like to see the moves that will be put on him and his alternative costumes.

Non-video game characters will not be in the Super Smash Bros. series. because it will ruin the fame it has. Unless, of course, these are Nintendo-related characters:

Daitoryo (Nintendo Hanafuda Cards)
Tengu (Nintendo Hanafuda Cards)
Mini Kangaroo (Mini Game Series)
Nester (Nintendo Power magazine)
Kevin Keene (Captain N: The Game Master)

 

[Gengar84]

Non-video game characters will not be in the Super Smash Bros. series. because it will ruin the fame it has. Unless, of course, these are Nintendo-related characters:

Daitoryo (Nintendo Hanafuda Cards)
Tengu (Nintendo Hanafuda Cards)
Mini Kangaroo (Mini Game Series)
Nester (Nintendo Power magazine)
Kevin Keene (Captain N: The Game Master)

I’d love to see Jessie and James from Team Rocket make it into Smash one day. They aren’t really video game characters either but are still related to Nintendo.

 

[Stratos]

From Amiibo characters that have not been released yet are Min Min, Steve, Alex, Sephiroth, Pyra, Mythra, Kazuya and Sora.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I feel like that's still a clone, though...

I dunno what to tell you. That's not what a clone is.

If some random dog comes by and puts on my pants, that doesn't make him a clone of me. And that's what Dark Samus is.

 

[Gengar84]

I dunno what to tell you. That's not what a clone is.

If some random dog comes by and puts on my pants, that doesn't make him a clone of me. And that's what Dark Samus is.

Thanks, now I have the mental image of a dog in pants called Dark DarthEnderX lol.

 

[Sucumbio]

Logbook entry
Intelligence suggests that the one known as "Dark Samus" is a heavily mutated clone of the hunter Samus Aran. The subject is driven by a lust for Phazon, the alleged source of its powerful abilities. After the Aether incident it was presumed dead, but the subject was recently spotted again. Intelligence indicates that the subject commanded the Pirate Armada which recently attacked the G.F.S. Valhalla.

...

So while not adhering to the classical definition of clone, western translation in game of the log entry does indeed use the word clone. Fwiw.

 

[Ivander]

Gameplay wise, in Smash, I picture him like Exdeath in Dissidia if anyone has played that game. Exdeath had extremely slow normal movement but was able to get around quickly by teleporting.

I've been saying that for a while now.
---
Also, yes, Dark Samus is not a genetic clone of Samus. It's a Metroid wearing a stolen mutated version of Samus' Phazon Suit. But....But......what has the weaponry Samus uses? Samus herself or her Suit? Why shouldn't Dark Samus be able to use Samus' weaponry when her weaponry is tied to her suit? Especially when Dark Samus has used weaponry of Samus' like the Boost Ball. Unless you are insinuating that Samus keeps her missiles, beams and whatnot inside her flesh and not in her suit.

There isn't an issue with Dark Samus using Samus' weaponry. Even if the car keys and wallet with cash are yours to begin with, if the pants that the dog is wearing has the car keys and wallet with cash, the dog can still use them since it has access to them. And I'm assuming it knows how to considering it knows how to put on a pair of pants.

The issue isn't Dark Samus Can't use Samus' weaponry when she can. It's just that some people want more from Dark Samus besides Samus' weaponry since it used more unique attacks and abilities during her fights. Just like how some of us want more from some of our favourite characters than just being an Echo, like Dixie Kong.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Logbook entry
Intelligence suggests that the one known as "Dark Samus" is a heavily mutated clone of the hunter Samus Aran. The subject is driven by a lust for Phazon, the alleged source of its powerful abilities. After the Aether incident it was presumed dead, but the subject was recently spotted again. Intelligence indicates that the subject commanded the Pirate Armada which recently attacked the G.F.S. Valhalla.

...

So while not adhering to the classical definition of clone, western translation in game of the log entry does indeed use the word clone. Fwiw.

Clone or not in a literal sense, she's in the Power Suit of Samus, and there was no actual big chance of her ever getting into Smash, if not for being an Echo. That was basically my argument, but yeah, glad to have it confirmed anyway.

There are lots of options for similar sort of Echoes or alts amongst the roster. With a Ultimate Deluxe, these could be explored more. I'd imagine that a port, if it happens on a next console and not on Switch this year as a certain rumor suggests, could focus mostly on adding new Echo Fighters, and adds more unique newcomers with DLC. I also imagine it would probably mark the return of Smash 4 new elements as Custom Moves, and hopefully Smash Run.

I think that could be a realistic scenario. If we'd roll with it for now and make a roster like ; add 10 Echo Fighter newcomers with the liberties taken as much as Ken or the Melee clones () , and up to 5 newcomers who are unique with DLC. How'd your roster look like ?

Echo Fighters :

• Dixie Kong (unique looking Smash attacks involving her hair for F Smash and D Smash, new dash attack, Up B loosely based on DK's, a unique grab and different throws, little lighter, little slower on the ground, and a little floatier than Diddy).
• Impa (The U Smash, F Air and dash attack are the same animation but use the kodachi to attack, these attacks are stronger overall, new animations for F Smash and D Smash, overall Impa is stronger but slower than Sheik, same potential for combos but Impa can't follow up as much as Sheik, but Impa finishes off faster. Think Mythra as Sheik, Impa as a faster but weaker Pyra with combos).
• Tom Nook (not sure what they could do to make him different from both Villager and Isabelle)
• Octolings (never played Splatoon but it's big enough to warrant them being in)
• Alph (the dude is in! Could use Rock Pikmin, that's a popular suggestion I know of, wouldn't know what difference it made)
• Slippy Toad (Falco Echo, smaller, lighter, maybe slower as he has potential to be a joke character Has the Blaster Fox has, uses the Reflector like Fox too).
• Shadow (Sonic Echo, has a teleport Up B used by other characters, pick one you'd like most). Or another one I'd like, Knuckles. Slower, stronger Sonic Echo, with a glide Up B, and DK's Giant Punch but weaker and faster. Everything else is from Sonic.
• Black Knight (Ike Echo with a warp Up B that's slower but predictable using the entry animations of the Fire Emblem cast that hurts himself for 5% damage, Side B that's Luna, a singular powerful strike, has super armor on many attacks, slower walking and running than Ike, lower jumps, the Tough Guy ability of Bowser, fastest faller on the roster, Eruption is a sort of earth shaking effect and has no fire, the third heaviest character after K.Rool).
• Funky Kong (DK Echo with a Spinning Kong with a surfboard and water effects like Squirtle's Waterfall, has a slight Water Gun / F.L.U.D.D. sort of pushback too, could whack with his surfboard for tilts, DK with a safer recovery but no carry mechanic, unique animations, and a little less raw power to trade off for his longer survivability).
• Raichu (Pikachu based on how he played in N64. Has a sex kick N Air, throws are from N64, Thunder has super amor, Quick Attack has 3 jumps. Thunder Jolt can be charged. More power, less speed, moves have more knockback to prevent combos but have more KO power)
• Waluigi ! (Echoes Luigi in the strangest way, very floaty like Luigi, but has Wario's air speed making him a sort of lanky Jigglypuff. F Smash is taken from Peach. Up B is more similar to what Wario does. Fire Ball is replaced with a tennis ball projectile that sort of act like Dr.Mario's pills, but travel farther and deal less damage. He would have a model that's taller than Luigi, but also lighter).

Unique DLC characters:

1. Monster Hunter
2. Isaac (Golden Sun)
3. Officer Howard (Astral Chain) - has the female protagonist and male protagonist options
4. Bandana Dee
5. Lara Croft

 

[Chuderz]

I've been meaning to make a Shadow post.

I think Shadow deserves Semiclone status too. Again it's just too easy an opportunity because first and foremost you can obviously base him on Sonic and more importantly his specials are already kind of in the game if you think about it.

Neutral-Special would obviously be Sonic's homing attack. Up-Special could be any teleport you want from either Mewtwo or Palutena. Side-Special Wario's motorcycle reskinned into Shadow's. Down-Special is Chaos Control which is just a reanimated Witchtime. Oh and Shadow's air-dodge would be just like Mewtwo's and his spot-doge would be just like Palutena's.

If people ever complained about him not having a Spindash then that could be a Shield-Special input but you just hold it instead of tapping the button the traditional more gameplay accurate way. This Shield-Special philosophy could also apply to Sonic to make room for more unique moves. Or conversely you could hold Shield-Special for a brief bit then once the attack animation starts you can either just go forward immediately or tap B for the normal charge sequence. If you tap a Jump input while in the Spindash attacking animation you'll go the trajectory of what is Sonic's current Side-Special and the same could apply to my theoretical Shadow design. 1st Jump input will do what is currently the first jump angle in Sonic's current Side-Special and the 2nd Jump input will do what is currently the second jump angle in Sonic's current Side-Special. Just like the current status quo using either of them utilizes your actual jumps so if you do your first jump you still have your second should you want out of the attack animation but if you do both off stage you're going down into the blast zone.

Nothing lost but exactly two Specials are gained for both the Hedgehogs. I'd make one of Sonic's new specials Blue Tornado, probably Down-Special. You could tap it repeatly to keep the Blue Tornado active similar to Donkey Kong's Down-Special. Side-Special could be Sonic Boost with the appropriate meter.

Shadow could (as could other Sonic characters like Tails and Knuckles should they be implemented) have the added benefit of being able to utilize the "inheritor" philosophy we've seen with Dr. Mario inheriting Mario's old Down-Special.

I'd basically just implement a lot of what this girl said for a Sonic rework. It's where I got lots of my Sonic ideas from. I obviously disagree with her in regards to Sonic's Up-Special being changed but I do agree with her change in his fall animation. I also disagree with her in regards to Sonic's Up-Throw because I feel like it's quite unique. I also disagree with her on her change to how his Neutral-Special homing attack functions because I believe it's too fundamental to how his kit works and I honestly I like how it works. Lastly I disagree with her in regards to Up-Air because I think it has a lot of personality. Funny how I disagreed with her in regards to her changes for Up-Inputs specifically haha. Other than that I like the references and think Shadow and potentially Tails or Knuckles could pick up the pieces of whatever Sonic leaves behind.

As for Shadow I think BrawlFan1 has great references for Shadow's potential Smashes, Aerials, Tilts, Throws and the Jab. I disagree with him on Specials because I think Shadow could simply utilize what's already in the game in an interesting way that also manages to stay true to his character and reference material.

 

[Sucumbio]

I mean... Yeah. I dunno lol echoes feel kinda cheap to me. I get the appeal both from a development standpoint and a fan demand standpoint but like to me it's kind of just unnecessary. I guess in point of fact many fighters have echoes, but like, Ken and Ryu, Scorpion and "classic" Sub-Zero (and Rain and Ermac and Smoke and Noob Saibot and Reptile lol) and Cyrax/Sector/Smoke, .......... Okay so echoes exist and they're cool but like...gah.

Smash is supposed to be different! But it's not even different in this regard because Marth and Roy from Melee, I guess Ganondorf and C Falcon because... Yeah.

This post was not well thought out lol I don't know why I have an issue with Dark Samus, Simon and Daisy when literally every other echo in every Fighting Game I've played doesn't rub me the wrong way like those 3.

 

[Will]

"No-brainer"? "100%"? I really can't say I appreciate the sheer arrogance in your choice of words. Could Dixie be an Echo? I personally lean towards "no", but I'm open to the idea that it could happen. However, it is by no means a guarantee, and it's certainly not the obvious choice you so make it out to be. If, by any chance, Dixie were to become an Echo, it would probably not be for any artistic and thematic purposes, but strictly as a cost-saving measure.

Is that not what my message was? Is any Echo outside of save Richter or Ken artistic or thematic?

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I mean... Yeah. I dunno lol echoes feel kinda cheap to me. I get the appeal both from a development standpoint and a fan demand standpoint but like to me it's kind of just unnecessary. I guess in point of fact many fighters have echoes, but like, Ken and Ryu, Scorpion and "classic" Sub-Zero (and Rain and Ermac and Smoke and Noob Saibot and Reptile lol) and Cyrax/Sector/Smoke, .......... Okay so echoes exist and they're cool but like...gah.

Smash is supposed to be different! But it's not even different in this regard because Marth and Roy from Melee, I guess Ganondorf and C Falcon because... Yeah.

This post was not well thought out lol I don't know why I have an issue with Dark Samus, Simon and Daisy when literally every other echo in every Fighting Game I've played doesn't rub me the wrong way like those 3.

Well, most fighting games with clones are creating original characters, so there isn't an expectation of what the clone character should be ahead of time. Whereas in Smash you already know how Daisy is, so it feels off if in Smash she is basically the same person as Peach.

I feel pretty similarly about it, though with different characters. I won't get into it too much, since I'd start writing up a long rant if I did, but it can definitely get aggravating when characters don't fill expectations of what they should be in your head.

I do like semiclones a lot, though. The idea of taking an existing concept and spinning it in a different direction is appealing to me. It's part of why I like having an adult Link and a kid Link. You can take a similar concept (sword wielder with projectiles for coverage) and put the focus on different aspects of the idea or bend the concept into a new direction that the original doesn't quite fit.

Like, if Zack Fair was added to Smash, I wouldn't want him to play the same as Cloud. He could be a faster version with a normal sword based on early Crisis Core, and it would give people a reason other than aesthetics to play one over the other. Without an actual gameplay difference, the gameplay isn't much richer for the added echo. It's neat, but nothing's changed under the hood.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Logbook entry
Intelligence suggests that the one known as "Dark Samus" is a heavily mutated clone of the hunter Samus Aran.

Well...that entry is straight up wrong.

THIS is the thing inside the Dark Samus suit:

It is a mutant METROID(the titular Metroid Prime) that has no connection to Samus other than the stolen suit.

I mean... Yeah. I dunno lol echoes feel kinda cheap to me.

They are, but that the point.

These are characters that weren't getting unique fighters anyway. It wasn't a choice between being an Echo or being unique. It was a choice between being an Echo and not being in at all(or being a Mii).

Dixie fans complain about making her an Echo, but where is she now? Nowhere. And that's not better.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well...that entry is straight up wrong.

THIS is the thing inside the Dark Samus suit:
View attachment 343691
It is a mutant METROID(the titular Metroid Prime) that has no connection to Samus other than the stolen suit.

I did not realize Metroid had more complicated lore than Kingdom Hearts...

 

[Sucumbio]

Well...that entry is straight up wrong.

THIS is the thing inside the Dark Samus suit:
View attachment 343691
It is a mutant METROID(the titular Metroid Prime) that has no connection to Samus other than the stolen suit.

Yeah it's absolutely wrong. I mentioned it simply because I can understand someone who's played it reading the entry and thus referring to Dark Samus as a clone.

But the real question is was it a bad translation or is the Galactic Federation misinformed?

 

[MBRedboy31]

Yeah it's absolutely wrong. I mentioned it simply because I can understand someone who's played it reading the entry and thus referring to Dark Samus as a clone.

But the real question is was it a bad translation or is the Galactic Federation misinformed?

I did a quick check of the Metroid wiki, and there is another logbook entry that says:
Scans indicate the presence of Phazon and your genetic material within this entity. She wears a version of the Varia Suit, altered and augmented by the Phazon within her.

The fact that it apparently assimilated some of Samus’ DNA makes it kiiinda of more of a clone, since it acquired something biologically in common with Samus, even though it didn’t have anything in common initially. But yeah, it isn’t really Samus’ evil clone in the traditional sense.

 

[Chuderz]

I don't believe we've talked about Shield-Specials in any sort of depth. I love the concept and would have never considered it before Sakurai demonstrated its implementation. I personally really like the idea of everyone gaining a Shield-Special input akin to how everyone got a Side-Special input in Melee.

My design philosophy around Shield-Special inputs would be to have them be completely grounded as is currently the case. That's the sort of limitation that lends itself to the design and function of whatever move you designate to the input. What I mean by that is it basically limits what attacks can even be (or at least ideally should be) a Shield-Special input in the first place.

Sometimes a utility move makes the most sense as is the case with the only 2 current Shield-Special inputs in the game Inkling's and Steve's. It's part of their design philosophy (covering the opponent in ink that lends itself as a debuff and crafting respectively) while also making room for traditional Special attacks.

Other times I think a "charged" attack would be more fitting. Basically I would have Shield-Special attacks designed around the idea of holding the input (which some exceptions whichever character would specifically benefit from a slight alteration from this design philosophy) to perform the attack and in addition locking the actual attack behind the "full" charge so to speak. Should you let go of the Shield-Special input before completing the "full" charge of the attack you'll fail the attack and end up in either a down animation stage (like the one we're in before we use our Get-Up-Attacks) or you'll go through a laggy failed attack animation unique to the specific character with the latter being the more ideal solution to my design philosophy. A fully charged Shield-Special attack would be more or the less the time it takes for Inkling's ink meter to from empty to full.

This overall design philosophy would also mean it's impossible to shield while doing these Shield-Special attacks as is already currently the case with Inkling and that very brief moment Steve summons his crafting table.

So quick recap Shield-Specials design philosophy would be:

• Completely grounded
• Either a utility move or a "charged" attack
• If it's a charged attack it comes with the risk of a laggy failed attack animation state should you not fully charge through the attack
• Impossible to shield out of or cancel in any way without subjecting yourself to the aforementioned failed attack animation state
• Should take about as long to fully charge as it takes Inkling's ink meter to go from empty to full

I think this is the ideal design philosophy around these hypothetical Shield-Specials. I would love to see some concepts explored if anybody ever had any ideas. I thought of some already such as giving Banjo a reskin of Bowser Jr.'s Down-Special in the form of Clockwork Kazooie eggs but obviously unlike Bowser Jr.'s Banjo would be subjected to the risks of it being a Shield-Special input so it'd take some time to manufacture the Clockwork Kazooie egg and should he fail to fully charge it he'll be subjected to the laggy failed attack animation state as punishment.

Another character I thought of getting a Shield-Special input was Cloud. Though I think Cloud would specifically benefit from a slight departure. He'd get the best of both worlds with his Shield-Special acting as a utility move but functionally being new attacks with none of the risks but it is sort of a hassle in its own right to activate and navigate through. I'm talking about Materia Menu being his Shield-Special. It'd be very similar to Hero's but Cloud couldn't use it in the air and he'd be limited to 4 spells that would remain static in their respective slots. Cloud would gain a Mana bar of 100 that wouldn't passively build up like Hero's does. Cloud would have to land attacks to gain his Mana. His spells would be Fire, Ice, Lightning and Cure respectively. Fire, Ice and Lightning would each cost 50 Mana and Cure would cost 100 Mana. His current Materia taunt would be reappropriated as the attack animation (the new taunt would be him answering his flip-phone from Advent Children) and would be the exact same length of animation as the taunt currently is in the game. Since the move is being treated like a utility move Cloud is allowed to Shield out of it but it's still a little laggy similar to Inking going from their Shield-Special refill state to Shield. Cloud's Limit-charged Shield-Special would be Meteorain because it's his last remaining Limit-Break not yet in the game and it kind of makes up for there being no Earth Materia in his Materia Menu. You won't have to hold the Shield-Special input as it's just an instant commit into the full move just like his Limit-charged Cross-Slash for example.

 

[Gengar84]

I don't believe we've talked about Shield-Specials in any sort of depth. I love the concept and would have never considered it before Sakurai demonstrated its implementation. I personally really like the idea of everyone gaining a Shield-Special input akin to how everyone got a Side-Special input in Melee.

My design philosophy around Shield-Special inputs would be to have them be completely grounded as is currently the case. That's the sort of limitation that lends itself to the design and function of whatever move you designate to the input. What I mean by that is it basically limits what attacks can even be (or at least ideally should be) a Shield-Special input in the first place.

Sometimes a utility move makes the most sense as is the case with the only 2 current Shield-Special inputs in the game Inkling's and Steve's. It's part of their design philosophy (covering the opponent in ink that lends itself as a debuff and crafting respectively) while also making room for traditional Special attacks.

Other times I think a "charged" attack would be more fitting. Basically I would have Shield-Special attacks designed around the idea of holding the input (which some exceptions whichever character would specifically benefit from a slight alteration from this design philosophy) to perform the attack and in addition locking the actual attack behind the "full" charge so to speak. Should you let go of the Shield-Special input before completing the "full" charge of the attack you'll fail the attack and end up in either a down animation stage (like the one we're in before we use our Get-Up-Attacks) or you'll go through a laggy failed attack animation unique to the specific character with the latter being the more ideal solution to my design philosophy. A fully charged Shield-Special attack would be more or the less the time it takes for Inkling's ink meter to from empty to full.

This overall design philosophy would also mean it's impossible to shield while doing these Shield-Special attacks as is already currently the case with Inkling and that very brief moment Steve summons his crafting table.

So quick recap Shield-Specials design philosophy would be:

• Completely grounded
• Either a utility move or a "charged" attack
• If it's a charged attack it comes with the risk of a laggy failed attack animation state should you not fully charge through the attack
• Impossible to shield out of or cancel in any way without subjecting yourself to the aforementioned failed attack animation state
• Should take about as long to fully charge as it takes Inkling's ink meter to go from empty to full

I think this is the ideal design philosophy around these hypothetical Shield-Specials. I would love to see some concepts explored if anybody ever had any ideas. I thought of some already such as giving Banjo a reskin of Bowser Jr.'s Down-Special in the form of Clockwork Kazooie eggs but obviously unlike Bowser Jr.'s Banjo would be subjected to the risks of it being a Shield-Special input so it'd take some time to manufacture the Clockwork Kazooie egg and should he fail to fully charge it he'll be subjected to the laggy failed attack animation state as punishment.

Another character I thought of getting a Shield-Special input was Cloud. Though I think Cloud would specifically benefit from a slight departure. He'd get the best of both worlds with his Shield-Special acting as a utility move but functionally being new attacks with none of the risks but it is sort of a hassle in its own right to activate and navigate through. I'm talking about Materia Menu being his Shield-Special. It'd be very similar to Hero's but Cloud couldn't use it in the air and he'd be limited to 4 spells that would remain static in their respective slots. Cloud would gain a Mana bar of 100 that wouldn't passively build up like Hero's does. Cloud would have to land attacks to gain his Mana. His spells would be Fire, Ice, Lightning and Cure respectively. Fire, Ice and Lightning would each cost 50 Mana and Cure would cost 100 Mana. His current Materia taunt would be reappropriated as the attack animation (the new taunt would be him answering his flip-phone from Advent Children) and would be the exact same length of animation as the taunt currently is in the game. Since the move is being treated like a utility move Cloud is allowed to Shield out of it but it's still a little laggy similar to Inking going from their Shield-Special refill state to Shield. Cloud's Limit-charged Shield-Special would be Meteorain because it's his last remaining Limit-Break not yet in the game and it kind of makes up for there being no Earth Materia in his Materia Menu. You won't have to hold the Shield-Special input as it's just an instant commit into the full move just like his Limit-charged Cross-Slash for example.

I think the idea of shield specials is e really cool and I’d love for characters to have more options for moves. One idea is you could use that for the transformation of characters like Pokémon Trainer and Pyra/Mythra so e they can still have a full normal moveset. Im also open to the idea of more characters getting back specials like Terry but I’m not sure how that would work with non-fighting game characters without the auto facing mechanic.

 

[Sucumbio]

I did a quick check of the Metroid wiki, and there is another logbook entry that says:
Scans indicate the presence of Phazon and your genetic material within this entity. She wears a version of the Varia Suit, altered and augmented by the Phazon within her.

The fact that it apparently assimilated some of Samus’ DNA makes it kiiinda of more of a clone, since it acquired something biologically in common with Samus, even though it didn’t have anything in common initially. But yeah, it isn’t really Samus’ evil clone in the traditional sense.

Nice!

God this makes me salivate for the switch Trilogy HD remaster if it's indeed coming...

Hmm so maybe it's an indicator of some genetic hybridization...in a literal sense it could simply be detecting like, Samus'sweat or something from when she was wearing it but that's a stretch.

Her suit fascinates me. Like how she's able to transform into morph ball, how it.. coalesces around her underwear (zero suit) ... When Tony Stark's suit gets upgraded to that nano version it reminded me of the same type of concept. I could ramble forever about this **** lol

Dark Samus for smash 6 with New moves let's gooooo!

 

[Chuderz]

I think the idea of shield specials is e really cool and I’d love for characters to have more options for moves. One idea is you could use that for the transformation of characters like Pokémon Trainer and Pyra/Mythra so e they can still have a full normal moveset. Im also open to the idea of more characters getting back specials like Terry but I’m not sure how that would work with non-fighting game characters without the auto facing mechanic.

Yeah that's a huge part of the appeal. Unless the programmers implemented it in such a way as to allow for Shield-Specials in the air (you'll currently air-dodge of course and I think I'm with the majority when I say we want air-dodges to stay) then that's what I'm understanding to be the importance of assigning certain utility moves like Limit-Charge and character swaps (Pokemon Trainer and Pythra) to the Down-Special input. So that you can swap characters and charge Limit in the air.

My solution would instead would be to compensate for that "missing move" with a Shield-Special attack instead. Pokemon Trainer Shield-Specials for example could have Squirtle and Ivysaur could have Bubblebeam and Solarbeam respectively (though while Squirtle launches his immediately after charging Ivysaur can store his just Samus and Mewtwo's Neutral-Special) and Charizard's could be the return of his Rock Smash with some added Super armor during the charge animation.

Skip this part if you don't want to read me theorizing Back-Specials!

I've theorized how Back-Specials would work (though admittedly I'm just filling available input real-estate for its own sake at this point) but basically you give everyone the auto-facing mechanic but now it's toggleable in-game during the actual match with an R3 input or L3 input should the player prefer. That means the GameCube controller would need a Panda-tier update to match the capabilities of the pro controller in addition to an extra Z-button on the left. It's at least possible I guess. Though a much simpler solution would be to not give the fighting-game characters Shield-Specials in favor of giving Back-Specials instead.

I'd make it so that whatever the player assigns to their auto-lock-on (R3 or L3) the other automatically gets assigned to Final Smash activation.

If you're wondering why I'd choose Final Smash specifically to have this symbiotic relationship with R3/L3 auto-lock system it's basically to keep with my hypothetical design philosophy around a competitive FInal Smash rework system. Link here: https://smashboards.com/threads/nex...scussion-thread.515747/page-102#post-24633404

I also think it's best to extremely limit what R3 and L3 inputs ought to be allowed to be and also keep it strictly to one singular button as opposed to having the option to make multiple buttons the auto-lock. Final Smash fits well with it requiring 1 independent button but also something the player would use so seldomly that lends itself quite nicely to being put away from the more "traditional" ABXY R1/2 L1/2 buttons. I know Nintendo doesn't call those buttons that but it's easier to communicate what I mean by referring to the button clicks as R3/L3.

Ryu and Ken's extra Final Smashes would work as they do now just with the final input being assigned to either R3 or L3.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Honestly if I were to add another special move I would just bind it to one of the triggers. It's not like you really need two block/dodge buttons.

Fumbling with L3/R3 for lock-on sounds cumbersome. I know people who hate that input for ANYTHING.

 

[Chuderz]

Honestly if I were to add another special move I would just bind it to one of the triggers. It's not like you really need two block/dodge buttons.

Fumbling with L3/R3 for lock-on sounds cumbersome. I know people who hate that input for ANYTHING.

Hey thanks for reading my thoughts and offering your opinion on it. The only buttons that you actually need two of are Jump for short-hops and Shield for moving your shield around. That being said It's just an idea of how Back-Specials could potentially be implemented universally while also conserving button real-estate. I've never really heard of hatred towards R3/L3 inputs unless they're attached to some mechanic that you have to hold to utilize such as a sprint feature. That's also why I suggested they be the assigned inputs for Final Smash and the proposed Auto-Lock as the former you won't be inputting all that much and the latter you ideally wouldn't be inputting much either.

Honestly you don't even really need the Auto-Lock for Back-Specials to work either. No matter what the Back-Special would be relative to the direction your character was facing. If you were playing the game and wanting to toy around with the concept in training mode or something you could pretend to input a nonexistent Back-Special as you move towards your training dummy in a dash or in the air and you'd most likely find yourself doing the character's Side-Special in the opposite direction with no real substantial misinputs (as in inputting a nonexistent Back-Special and finding your character consistently Side-Special-ing away from your training dummy) to speak of even fighting a level 9. So really the Auto-Lock isn't even all that necessary though I personally would love the option for its own sake and also I'd like to be able to turn if off sometimes with regards to the Fighting-Game-Characters.

I personally think specials should stay as singular input with associated directional influence or double buttoning so really Back-Specials and Shield-Specials are kind of the limit as far as traditional specials go. Steve does have his unique Aerial-Neutral-Special (the blocks) but I wouldn't want that to be universally implemented even in my wildest dreams for Smash's potential arsenal progression. If I was going to replace any of the redundancy in the current default trigger button layout it'd be to give the entire cast a Counter option (similar to how Grab is its own dedicated option) and relocating anybody's pre-existing counter there while also replacing their now empty Special-Input with something new. Counters can mostly be basic as **** (everybody getting an FE-tier one that fits them more or less) but as demonstrated with Sephiroth and Sora they can also have unique properties, hitboxes and animations.

 

[Diddy Kong]

My idea for a new mechanic is give everyone a Counter yes indeed. That could essentially be the "Shield Special". Think of a parry, but done whilst also pressing B.

What about Smash Specials ? Those would work well too. In a sense, they already exist since Melee with Samus's Missiles , but imagine it done for everyone.

 

[Gengar84]

My idea for a new mechanic is give everyone a Counter yes indeed. That could essentially be the "Shield Special". Think of a parry, but done whilst also pressing B.

What about Smash Specials ? Those would work well too. In a sense, they already exist since Melee with Samus's Missiles , but imagine it done for everyone.

Smash specials are cool and I wouldn’t mind seeing more of them. Doesn’t Byleth basically have a smash special for their side special as well?

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

One thing that could be implemented for shield specials is a dedicated defensive maneuver for characters who have fancier blocking capabilities in their original games. Link's could be that he pulls up his shield and then is able to strafe with it while moving along the ground. It would give him a more consistent use of his passive ability to block projectiles and is thematic with the shield input.

Honestly if I were to add another special move I would just bind it to one of the triggers. It's not like you really need two block/dodge buttons.

Fumbling with L3/R3 for lock-on sounds cumbersome. I know people who hate that input for ANYTHING.

My vote for the trigger is to make it a dedicated final smash button so it doesn't eat the neutral special, and then balance final smashes properly so they actually feel like a strategic addition to the gameplay.

What about Smash Specials ? Those would work well too. In a sense, they already exist since Melee with Samus's Missiles , but imagine it done for everyone.

I'm having a hard time seeing it implemented across the board. There are characters like Ike, whose specials are already chargeable, and it would be bad to require more precise inputs to get the recovery move you want while in a moment of high stress. I wouldn't mind it being more common where it would work, though.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Honestly I thinbk Smash shouldn't change too much. The philosophy of the game was always "easy to pick up for everyone to play". Imo Steve was already pushing a bit what can be done with his 3 neutral B moves (mine the ground, craft on the table, puts block in the air) + the B+shield which can move the table. Playing Smash with a casual who don't follow Nintendo direct and having to explain Steve is actually hard (there's also weapon durability and other stuff). I really don't see every character having a shield special or back special with auto-lock.

 

[Stratos]

I read somewhere that instead of Conker's Bad Fur Day which is very mature, there would be Twelve Tales: Conker 64 which would be child friendly but it was criticized for that because it would be another kid friendly game . But that's not bad to be kid friendly, but they chose to put on Conker's Bad Fur Day. It's a shame because I would like to see Conker with Banjo and Diddy Kong on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate to meet again after so long at Diddy Kong Racing. In Diddy Kong Racing these three were good friends from what I read. Also known as Diddy Kong Racing is the first game that Banjo and Conker made their appearance. I write this because from what I know in the Super Smash Bros. series. There were also characters from mature video games but not so much mature ratings.

 

[Gengar84]

I read somewhere that instead of Conker's Bad Fur Day which is very mature, there would be Twelve Tales: Conker 64 which would be child friendly but it was criticized for that because it would be another kid friendly game . But that's not bad to be kid friendly, but they chose to put on Conker's Bad Fur Day. It's a shame because I would like to see Conker with Banjo and Diddy Kong on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate to meet again after so long at Diddy Kong Racing. In Diddy Kong Racing these three were good friends from what I read. Also known as Diddy Kong Racing is the first game that Banjo and Conker made their appearance. I write this because from what I know in the Super Smash Bros. series. There were also characters from mature video games but not so much mature ratings.

Yeah, I remember the old magazine adds of early Conker before they decided to go the mature route. Personally, I would have preferred that but then he might not stand out much from other 3D mascot Platformers at the time like Banjo and Crash.

 

[Stratos]

Yeah, I remember the old magazine adds of early Conker before they decided to go the mature route. Personally, I would have preferred that but then he might not stand out much from other 3D mascot Platformers at the time like Banjo and Crash.

It seems to me that you are right.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah, I remember the old magazine adds of early Conker before they decided to go the mature route. Personally, I would have preferred that but then he might not stand out much from other 3D mascot Platformers at the time like Banjo and Crash.

For what it's worth, they tried to go back to that with that Young Conker thing... and everybody hated it.

 

[Gengar84]

For what it's worth, they tried to go back to that with that Young Conker thing... and everybody hated it.

That makes sense. At that point, they’re just changing the character that everyone grew attached to. I think if they had gone the family friendly route from the start like they were originally planning, the reception wouldn’t have been so negative. Still, RARE probably made the right choice going with Bad Fur Day in the end since it definitely drew attention, even if it didn’t really suit my personal tastes.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Bad Fur Day is the one Rare game I wish I had played. Banjo Tooie is a second.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm trying to remember which of the N64 Rareware games I didn't play. I own them all, mind you. I think... I played them all? Conker, both Banjos, Jet Force Gemini, Diddy Kong Racing, Killer Instinct Gold, Donkey Kong 64. Did I miss any?

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm trying to remember which of the N64 Rareware games I didn't play. I own them all, mind you. I think... I played them all? Conker, both Banjos, Jet Force Gemini, Diddy Kong Racing, Killer Instinct Gold, Donkey Kong 64. Did I miss any?

Blast Corps, maybe?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Blast Corps, maybe?

Ah, that one. Own it, played it. Thank you!

 

[CannonStreak]

Ah, that one. Own it, played it. Thank you!

No problem. Anytime, my friend!

 

[JOJONumber691]

So, a furry Samus?

Yeah essentially. Hey it fits.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm trying to remember which of the N64 Rareware games I didn't play. I own them all, mind you. I think... I played them all? Conker, both Banjos, Jet Force Gemini, Diddy Kong Racing, Killer Instinct Gold, Donkey Kong 64. Did I miss any?

Perfect Dark and GoldenEye are two big ones. I think I’ve played them all except Jet Force Gemini.

 

[Lionfranky]

Just question.

Is it impossible to turn Ultimate into live service?
Or is it that fighting game in general cannot be supported for long time?

Is it because fighting game involves more than simple skin?
Sakurai said DLC took as much development time and budget(?) as base game or something along that line iirc.
After setting third party renegotiation contract for good, they should be good, right?