Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Dinoman96]

There is also Mickey's Speedway USA

AKA nobody's favorite N64 Rare game

Interestingly, it (and its GBC counterpart) wouldn't be the last time Rare and Disney crossed paths.

 

[SPEN18]

Is it impossible to turn Ultimate into live service?
Or is it that fighting game in general cannot be supported for long time?

Is it because fighting game involves more than simple skin?
Sakurai said DLC took as much development time and budget(?) as base game or something along that line iirc.
After setting third party renegotiation contract for good, they should be good, right?

Well, Ultimate is made specially for one particular piece of hardware, one that will be eventually replaced by another superior console that the company will want to put all their biggest IPs on. As a premier Nintendo series, it matters to the company and also to the vast majority of the fans to have a relatively up-to-date version of Smash at any given time. So at a certain point, simply updating/maintaining Ultimate won't be a viable commercial option anymore, once the engine/models are dated enough.

Lastly, as far as I know there is no hard evidence that third parties were negotiated for anything beyond just Ultimate as-is.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Clone or not in a literal sense, she's in the Power Suit of Samus, and there was no actual big chance of her ever getting into Smash, if not for being an Echo. That was basically my argument, but yeah, glad to have it confirmed anyway.

There are lots of options for similar sort of Echoes or alts amongst the roster. With a Ultimate Deluxe, these could be explored more. I'd imagine that a port, if it happens on a next console and not on Switch this year as a certain rumor suggests, could focus mostly on adding new Echo Fighters, and adds more unique newcomers with DLC. I also imagine it would probably mark the return of Smash 4 new elements as Custom Moves, and hopefully Smash Run.

I think that could be a realistic scenario. If we'd roll with it for now and make a roster like ; add 10 Echo Fighter newcomers with the liberties taken as much as Ken or the Melee clones () , and up to 5 newcomers who are unique with DLC. How'd your roster look like ?

Echo Fighters :

• Dixie Kong (unique looking Smash attacks involving her hair for F Smash and D Smash, new dash attack, Up B loosely based on DK's, a unique grab and different throws, little lighter, little slower on the ground, and a little floatier than Diddy).
• Impa (The U Smash, F Air and dash attack are the same animation but use the kodachi to attack, these attacks are stronger overall, new animations for F Smash and D Smash, overall Impa is stronger but slower than Sheik, same potential for combos but Impa can't follow up as much as Sheik, but Impa finishes off faster. Think Mythra as Sheik, Impa as a faster but weaker Pyra with combos).
• Tom Nook (not sure what they could do to make him different from both Villager and Isabelle)
• Octolings (never played Splatoon but it's big enough to warrant them being in)
• Alph (the dude is in! Could use Rock Pikmin, that's a popular suggestion I know of, wouldn't know what difference it made)
• Slippy Toad (Falco Echo, smaller, lighter, maybe slower as he has potential to be a joke character Has the Blaster Fox has, uses the Reflector like Fox too).
• Shadow (Sonic Echo, has a teleport Up B used by other characters, pick one you'd like most). Or another one I'd like, Knuckles. Slower, stronger Sonic Echo, with a glide Up B, and DK's Giant Punch but weaker and faster. Everything else is from Sonic.
• Black Knight (Ike Echo with a warp Up B that's slower but predictable using the entry animations of the Fire Emblem cast that hurts himself for 5% damage, Side B that's Luna, a singular powerful strike, has super armor on many attacks, slower walking and running than Ike, lower jumps, the Tough Guy ability of Bowser, fastest faller on the roster, Eruption is a sort of earth shaking effect and has no fire, the third heaviest character after K.Rool).
• Funky Kong (DK Echo with a Spinning Kong with a surfboard and water effects like Squirtle's Waterfall, has a slight Water Gun / F.L.U.D.D. sort of pushback too, could whack with his surfboard for tilts, DK with a safer recovery but no carry mechanic, unique animations, and a little less raw power to trade off for his longer survivability).
• Raichu (Pikachu based on how he played in N64. Has a sex kick N Air, throws are from N64, Thunder has super amor, Quick Attack has 3 jumps. Thunder Jolt can be charged. More power, less speed, moves have more knockback to prevent combos but have more KO power)
• Waluigi ! (Echoes Luigi in the strangest way, very floaty like Luigi, but has Wario's air speed making him a sort of lanky Jigglypuff. F Smash is taken from Peach. Up B is more similar to what Wario does. Fire Ball is replaced with a tennis ball projectile that sort of act like Dr.Mario's pills, but travel farther and deal less damage. He would have a model that's taller than Luigi, but also lighter).

Unique DLC characters:

1. Monster Hunter
2. Isaac (Golden Sun)
3. Officer Howard (Astral Chain) - has the female protagonist and male protagonist options
4. Bandana Dee
5. Lara Croft

You know what, this could be fun. Just as an FYI, I may be upgrading some Assist Trophies who just need some Additional Moves to be completed, so I’m going down to 8 just to fit these two in:
Zero (Mega Man X). Some dude said it best. Zero is half completed, so why not just do the rest. The rest is why he’s the first of my two picks to take up two slots since he’s not your Standard Clone. He steals moves from other fighters, but gets a lot of his own in the process. A mix of both when reasonable. Just make him super light yo prevent him from being broken like in Tatsunoko and UMvC3 and we’re good!!!!!!!!
Alucard (Castlevania). He’s my other pick who takes up two. He’s brings in his Giant Sword for Smash Attacks now, and well as some new moves to fill out the rest of his kit. His Specials Could be his Spells, his Subweapons, or Both. Overall, he could be a super interesting fighter who is already half completed. So, now onto the Traditional Echoes.
Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog). Shadow is essentially Sonic, but Aggressive. He has a Teleport and an Actual Side Special (which I could see Sonic sharing since I’m making it Boost). He does slightly more Damage than Sonic, but is more slippery and has a Down Air Stomp with his Shoes. Overall, Shadow is just that. A more aggressive Sonic.
Alph and Brittany (Pikmin, Olimar) Alph and Brittany give Olimar UI (which he would also get), but like the name implies, they’re both playable. Essentially, they have double the Pikmin, and are Two Characters instead of One, but they over-rely on their Pikmin. They have to manage their positions to use the unique strengths of requiring the opponent to knock you both out before the Stock is taken. They swap with Shield Special and have Pikmin Charge. Why isn’t Charlie here? His proportions are too different from Olimar, and two characters is already complicated enough, let alone three, so I decided to include my girl Brittany because I love her.
Hector (Fire Emblem, Ike) He’s basically Ike with Byleth’s Tether and a Ranged Counter. He also has a tip because Axe.
Cinderace (Pokémon, Lucario). They’re PM Lucario with a Soccer Ball. That’s literally it.
Gardevoir (Pokémon, Rosalina). Yes a Cross Series Echo. Yes I know. The proportions and personality fit, and Ganondorf happened, so I might as well. Gardevoir is Rosalina without Luma. Essentially replacing most of the Specials with Mewtwo’s functional Specials, with Teleport and Down Special because Disable sucks. Stats are the same, though the wand stuff is now just Gardevoir being a Psychic Type. That’s it.
Rock Howard (Fatal Fury, Terry) Rock is basically Terry, except replace GO with a Permanent Buff over 100%, like in Garou. He also has everything He has in Garou, so essentially Terry’s equivalent to Ken. Overall SNK deserves a Second Fighter and Rock would be hype.
New Characters:
Isla (KOFXV) She’s the Rival of this game who is super unique ability wise, and Max Mode could be super fun in Smash.
Yozora (Kingdom Hearts) This Character sounds like he would be as stupid as Kazuya and Sephiroth combined, so I might as well.
Octolings (Splatoon). Focus on the Bow from 3 and Octo Expansion and then you have a really fun character unique from the Inklings entirely.
Ruby Heart (Marvel vs Capcom 2). She is literally the best character you could ever add to Smash. She’s niche enough to not be hated by the supporters of unique characters, adds MvC2 to the Gaming Hall of Fame, would probably count as Street Fighter so there’s an actual Stage for the Series now, and overall this would make the FGC and Smash Communities super happy for a couple of months as a niche part of Gaming History gets to shine once more.
Master Chief (Halo). Mr. First Person Shooter himself, Master Chief Finishes the Fight! He’s basically a Zoner, but with some Footsie Options. Overall, he’s a Strong Character, and could bring in some cool FPS Mechanics (Strafeing) into Smash. Overall he’d be dope.

 

[Chuderz]

My idea for a new mechanic is give everyone a Counter yes indeed. That could essentially be the "Shield Special". Think of a parry, but done whilst also pressing B.

Would be the path of least resistance I guess as far as implementation is concerned. I personally would just prefer Counter being a dedicated option in and of itself in order to just get it out of the way from future design.

What about Smash Specials ? Those would work well too. In a sense, they already exist since Melee with Samus's Missiles , but imagine it done for everyone.

I see this more as a case-by-case optional design. Min-Min for example managed to utilize this quite well. For characters that can make it work absolutely go for it the more the merrier but I too have a hard seeing how to implement this for everyone. Maybe you have some ideas? I thought Fox could potentially have a more powerful variant of his Side-Special if inputted like a Smash-Special i.e. Samus' missiles. Sometimes I could even imagine a Rhythm-Mechanic working even better like hitting a button at just the correct time or a sequence of inputs in a correct tempo. Just some of my thoughts. I would love to hear some ideas for specific characters because it might get my speculation brain going to hear some cool ones!

One thing that could be implemented for shield specials is a dedicated defensive maneuver for characters who have fancier blocking capabilities in their original games. Link's could be that he pulls up his shield and then is able to strafe with it while moving along the ground. It would give him a more consistent use of his passive ability to block projectiles and is thematic with the shield input.

I really like this Link idea! A defensive utility option! A more complicated one I've imagined before for him would be a weapon menu (polearm, sword +shield and two-handed hammer) that essentially gives Link a Pokemon Trainer tier amount of different movesets. Everything from throws, pummels, tilts, aerials, smashes but the specials stay the same throughout each weapon.

Another similar one I had was for Megaman to get all his old custom moves back by mapping them to weapon wheel (similar to Shulk's Monado) then assigning whatever the player chose to his Neutral-Special. Sidenote on that I'd also like to see him maybe assign his old Smash 4 Ice shot custom move to Forward-Tilt permanently.

ANOTHER (sorry haha) idea I had was to give Palutena her old custom moves back but implementing them as a strictly ordered (like Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon order) "Stance Switch" system that essentially gives her a different set of Specials with each switch.

My vote for the trigger is to make it a dedicated final smash button so it doesn't eat the neutral special, and then balance final smashes properly so they actually feel like a strategic addition to the gameplay.

Oh very much agreed! I have a comprehensive (at least I feel like) plan to address this Final Smash rework. I've link to the post where I lay out some of my ideas but I'll just include the Final Smash rework portion in here. I'll also be including my concept for "Super Smash Attacks" (command input attacks like Terry's) so that the last portion of my Final Smash rework idea has the proper context.

Spoiler: Super Smash Attacks Command Input Idea

Introducing Super Smash Attacks!
Everybody gets Terry's GO! Meter! To keep it short and sweet everybody gets two (Terry's) command input attacks when their GO! meter (it can either keep saying GO!, or SMASH! or even more universally be the Smash Icon itself) activates like Terry. Doing the attack damages your character some (think Pichu) and fatigues your character (whether you landed it or not) for a set amount of time determined by both how much you mash out and how damaged you are. They're about as fast and accurate as Terry's two special command input GO! moves. I thought maybe Fighting Game Characters (Kazuya, Terry, Ryu/Ken) wouldn't get fatigued using these moves as well to keep it a little bit more special for them but I'd offset this by having them damage themselves more to compensate for this perk.

Spoiler: Final Smash Rework Idea

Meter no longer builds on its own at all. You fight to build your meter. If you have exactly or over half your meter when you lose a stock (or get KO'd in stamina mode) you lose half of that meter and if you have less than half your meter you lose ALL of your meter when losing a stock. Make Final Smashes blockable but of course if your shield is weak it's either a break or a confirm, whatever Smash team thinks would be best. Assign a specific button ( strictly R3 or L3 preferably but potentially any button you want) to Final Smash attacks so that you can use your specials in the charged state. All characters get a competitive Final Smash so some characters will have two Final Smashes, this can be addressed in advance rules (i.e. locking characters to their competitive Final Smash). Competitive Final Smashes are essentially cutscenes/inescapable-attack-sequences that do a fixed amount of damage across the entire cast (I'd keep it a strict 30 damage; 40 tops) and knockback is exclusively determined (balanced) by the exact weight of the character on the receiving end. Some characters already have competitive Final Smashes (based on my criteria) so they're fine as is and just need the updates everyone else is getting. Some characters' "uncompetitive" Final Smashes can be incorporated into Super Smash Attacks instead in some cases. Peach's and Daisy's heals would be an example of NOT fitting either a retooled Super Smash Attack or a competitive Final Smash. All of these competitive Final Smashes will be R3 or L3 inputs or potentially whatever you decide to set the button to.

I'm having a hard time seeing it implemented across the board. There are characters like Ike, whose specials are already chargeable, and it would be bad to require more precise inputs to get the recovery move you want while in a moment of high stress. I wouldn't mind it being more common where it would work, though.

This is basically also my take but I'd like to hear ideas of what these Smash-Specials could potentially be for specific characters.

Honestly I thinbk Smash shouldn't change too much. The philosophy of the game was always "easy to pick up for everyone to play". Imo Steve was already pushing a bit what can be done with his 3 neutral B moves (mine the ground, craft on the table, puts block in the air) + the B+shield which can move the table. Playing Smash with a casual who don't follow Nintendo direct and having to explain Steve is actually hard (there's also weapon durability and other stuff). I really don't see every character having a shield special or back special with auto-lock.

Personally I think the philosophy would remain intact so long as the characters are overwhelmingly universal in their inputs. Hypothetically someone could have made the same argument for when Sakurai added everything he did to Melee. A more comprehensive training mode coupled with an equally comprehensive tutorial mode would address these concerns I feel like and allow for the game to expand. I don't really see how casuals (I'm also a casual in a sense) would even care about playing a character well enough to "know" the specific triggers and gimmicks of their character either. They just button mash with items on and call it a day. I don't see how more attacks would potentially hinder their enjoyment in any way and in fact I think would expand upon it because they'd have even more to play with.

My ideal Auto-Lock implementation would be a little white/black marble in between the character portrait and the series emblem. When the marble was shiny white you'd know Auto-Lock was on and when it was black you'd know Auto-Lock was off. Then on top of that whenever there were more than two players it wouldn't even matter as is currently already the case with the characters with Auto-Lock.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Perfect Dark and GoldenEye are two big ones. I think I’ve played them all except Jet Force Gemini.

Those two. Man, my memory isn't that great. A few more than I remembered, heh~

...Huh. I don't own one particular Rareware game then. Thank you, Dinoman96.

 

[Stratos]

Ed Boon, the creator of the Mortal Kombat series, wanted one of the characters of his creation in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, but his wish did not come true. If that had happened, the biggest contender would have been Scorpion, because he is the mascot of the Mortal Kombat series and the company that makes it, the NetherRealm Studios.

 

[MeteoRain]

Who do you guys see as the most likely echo fighters for the next game?

Octolings are pretty much as guaranteed as it gets. I feel Dixie is another likely possibility if they don't go semiclone. I don't think they're going to go far with them, I feel the label was only made to take the heat off of Lucina and Dark Pit since we got none in the 3 years of DLC.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Smash Specials... Well it got me thinking. This is a overal broad reply to Chuderz , what I was thinking is going for a more traditional fighter mechanic with this. Smash Specials, and a certain "Super Smash Meter" that builds up by withholding Specials, or landing combos or KOs. This would make Specials more of a deciding factor in matches, and highly favors strategic play and know when to go for the offense or defense.

Would this work will all Specials we have right now? I'm not too sure. But there's a lot to be realized regardless, and maybe not all Specials need to be Super Smash charged, maybe some characters only have certain Specials that will make this work, others have it for their Smash attacks ? Or a mix of both.

So I already sort of stated, this Super Smash mechanic would build up with landing blows, and landing KOs, and would reset when you're KO'd yourself. Think of it as a traditional MP system, like Hero has with his spells, but you need to be on the offensive to actually build this up. Now this needs balance sure, as Fox will generally land way more blows than Bowser, so each individual attack will have to build up the meter with an individual value. A Blaster shot of Fox doesn't build up the meter like a fully charged Shadow Ball or Charge Shot, a Ganon F Air, a Ike F Smash hard read, it also should favor the character that's on the losing side, or a stock behind or so.

So let's take Mario as an example. With a Super Smash meter build up, holding his Neutral B makes him literally spam Fire Balls, each doing more damage than a regular Fire Ball would. This could also give his F Smash a stronger effect , and a bigger hitbox when he chooses to use a bit of his Super Smash meter on that attack. A meter could build up so you can charge more of your attacks during the fight. Maybe allow for up to 3 Super Smash attacks, and if you exceed that, you can get a free Final Smash? Of course , for the competitive players these are settings you can adjust for yourself.

Now take Samus, with a Super Smash attack charged up, you can shoot a whole bunch of Missiles like the Metroid Dread Missile Storm for Side B. Or Screw Attack, working like in the actual Metroid games , allowing for up to say, 3 or 4 repetitive hits with the final one being a KO blow? Down B with Super Smash? Of course that's gonna be a Power Bomb.

Mewtwo, side B regularly is Confusion, but could become Psychic or Psystrike even with a charged Super Smash meter giving it a ranged command grab with KO properties. Super Smash charged Smash attacks could give it huge ranged hitboxes that are stronger and way harder to avoid. A Super Smash charged Teleport would allow it to attack straight afterwards.

Fox could use his Super Smash meter to really make his Side B a combo starter, when you'd land the blow, you could follow up the move with the control stick, allowing up to 5 hits. **** it let's go wild, Up B Super Smash charged gives you control of the Arwing for a little while even (which can still be attacked and damaged).

It's just a start, but this is kind of what I think would be a very interesting take on the future of Smash.

 

[Simnm]

If the street fighter series were to get a villain who do you think would it be?
Akuma or m bison?

 

[skylanders fan]

If the street fighter series were to get a villain who do you think would it be?
Akuma or m bison?

Akuma I mean he is put in more crossovers and I personally would prefer him over Bison

 

[Sucumbio]

Sagat so I can Hyper! Hyper! Hyper Uppercut! a million times.

Ooo! Or Balrog so Little Mac can have a friend to play with... Can you imagine the teams match lol so many gimps off stage.....

(Not serious it'd be Akuma methinks)

 

[osby]

If the street fighter series were to get a villain who do you think would it be?
Akuma or m bison?

Juri, judging by how much Street Fighter developers love her.

 

[Stratos]

Akuma would probably be more likely to show up.

 

[SKX31]

My idea for a new mechanic is give everyone a Counter yes indeed. That could essentially be the "Shield Special". Think of a parry, but done whilst also pressing B.

What about Smash Specials ? Those would work well too. In a sense, they already exist since Melee with Samus's Missiles , but imagine it done for everyone.

The main problem I can think of with the Universal Counter is that a lot of people rely heavily on counters - to the point it's a crutch (Spectate mode is a good place to find these). So making it universal without additional finetuning would result in a lot more panic countering and what not. I'm personally a bit more favorable to parries reflecting projectiles (a la Melee) especially since most projectiles in Smash are rather... standard (creating potentially repetitive situations currently), and it's something both casual, intermediate and competitive players could benefit from.

Smash specials are cool and I wouldn’t mind seeing more of them. Doesn’t Byleth basically have a smash special for their side special as well?

Kinda, the smash input causes Byleth to lunge further alongside the swing and improves its range. The difference is noticeable, but IIRC it doesn't change the special in any other ways. Unlike Samus', whom shoots an entirely different missile to indicate the differences.

If the street fighter series were to get a villain who do you think would it be?
Akuma or m bison?

Think Bison. Akuma is possible I suppose (and the others too) but between the SF villains Bison is the most consistent, has a very distinctive fighting style and is one of the more recognizable villains out there.

 

[Sucumbio]

Akuma could be a good echo candidate and get the Ken treatment but since he is fairly similar in design maybe Bison does fit better.

But honestly tho if we dare to hope for another SF rep I'd actually be happier with Chun-Li.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If the street fighter series were to get a villain who do you think would it be?
Akuma or m bison?

I would HOPE for Bison. Getting another Ryu clone would be massively disappointing.

 

[Stratos]

The Professor Layton games were on Nintendo consoles and showed in a video that Professor Hershel Layton could handle a sword. So I think he would be a good choice as a newcomer for the next Super Smash Bros. game.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I would HOPE for Bison. Getting another Ryu clone would be massively disappointing.

Honestly, I think that's why they'd go for Bison instead. Not only is he the MAIN villain of Street Fighter, but he'd also have a unique moveset to contrast Ryu and Ken. Then again, the roster is infamously stuffed with swordfighters, so what do I know?

 

[Chuderz]

Smash Specials... Well it got me thinking. This is a overal broad reply to Chuderz , what I was thinking is going for a more traditional fighter mechanic with this. Smash Specials, and a certain "Super Smash Meter" that builds up by withholding Specials, or landing combos or KOs. This would make Specials more of a deciding factor in matches, and highly favors strategic play and know when to go for the offense or defense.

Would this work will all Specials we have right now? I'm not too sure. But there's a lot to be realized regardless, and maybe not all Specials need to be Super Smash charged, maybe some characters only have certain Specials that will make this work, others have it for their Smash attacks ? Or a mix of both.

So I already sort of stated, this Super Smash mechanic would build up with landing blows, and landing KOs, and would reset when you're KO'd yourself. Think of it as a traditional MP system, like Hero has with his spells, but you need to be on the offensive to actually build this up. Now this needs balance sure, as Fox will generally land way more blows than Bowser, so each individual attack will have to build up the meter with an individual value. A Blaster shot of Fox doesn't build up the meter like a fully charged Shadow Ball or Charge Shot, a Ganon F Air, a Ike F Smash hard read, it also should favor the character that's on the losing side, or a stock behind or so.

So let's take Mario as an example. With a Super Smash meter build up, holding his Neutral B makes him literally spam Fire Balls, each doing more damage than a regular Fire Ball would. This could also give his F Smash a stronger effect , and a bigger hitbox when he chooses to use a bit of his Super Smash meter on that attack. A meter could build up so you can charge more of your attacks during the fight. Maybe allow for up to 3 Super Smash attacks, and if you exceed that, you can get a free Final Smash? Of course , for the competitive players these are settings you can adjust for yourself.

Now take Samus, with a Super Smash attack charged up, you can shoot a whole bunch of Missiles like the Metroid Dread Missile Storm for Side B. Or Screw Attack, working like in the actual Metroid games , allowing for up to say, 3 or 4 repetitive hits with the final one being a KO blow? Down B with Super Smash? Of course that's gonna be a Power Bomb.

Mewtwo, side B regularly is Confusion, but could become Psychic or Psystrike even with a charged Super Smash meter giving it a ranged command grab with KO properties. Super Smash charged Smash attacks could give it huge ranged hitboxes that are stronger and way harder to avoid. A Super Smash charged Teleport would allow it to attack straight afterwards.

Fox could use his Super Smash meter to really make his Side B a combo starter, when you'd land the blow, you could follow up the move with the control stick, allowing up to 5 hits. **** it let's go wild, Up B Super Smash charged gives you control of the Arwing for a little while even (which can still be attacked and damaged).

It's just a start, but this is kind of what I think would be a very interesting take on the future of Smash.

I like this unique approach. I mostly base my ideas of additional options off of things Sakurai and team have implemented into an existing character being universally allocated across the cast or reworking a pre-existing mechanic but this is a fairly new take on Smash's design. Battling for an empowered state of being for your character. It's gotten me thinking of the possibilities. All the examples were interesting and I understand a lot better how Smash-Specials could theoretically work. Would fit well with Smash's trademark brand of chaos.

 

[toonito]

If the street fighter series were to get a villain who do you think would it be?
Akuma or m bison?

Probably Bison

Although if SF were to get another rep it's probably Chun-Li.

other SF reps I wouldn't mind seeing alongside Ryu:
Guile (to see if full charge characters can work in Smash; for players who may not like or feel intimidated by motion inputs)
Sakura (not often in crossovers compared to Ken or Chun-Li but the idea of Sakura fighting alongside her idol in Smash grew on me)
Elena (i know i know her attire and she's obscure as hell lol but her all kicks moveset would be an interesting clash with Little Mac)

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

If the street fighter series were to get a villain who do you think would it be?
Akuma or m bison?

Personally, I'd suggest M. Bison would be most reasonable, simply for the sake of having a unique moveset. As much as I'd love to see, for instance, Gill, Vega or Urien (as well as many others!), Bison is one of the more recognisable villains overall even if he's not specifically a rival to Ryu or Ken specifically.

Thing is, if we were to see a new Street Fighter character join the mix, it'd likely be Chun-Li given her notable status as one of the bigger female characters (in terms of popularity and overall importance) in gaming as a whole. I feel it's unlikely we'd see a non-SFII character given the music selection as a very small microcosm of what Smash seems to be representing there.

Even so? I think SF has a lot of potential for reps. One character that could in theory work is Sagat given his more personal connection as a villain to Ryu, but then he's been on his redemption arc pretty much ever since SFII...

My own favourite pick would never make it in, being Twelve from SFIII, but I think his unique animations and moveset - being able to freely morph his body as needed, and even replicate opponents Ditto style - would really make him unique to the rest of the cast, despite being intended to "copy" others. I wouldn't die on the hill of him getting in, as I recognise SF alone has a lot more interesting picks, he just seems like a fun idea to me.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Personally, I'd suggest M. Bison would be most reasonable, simply for the sake of having a unique moveset. As much as I'd love to see, for instance, Gill, Vega or Urien (as well as many others!), Bison is one of the more recognisable villains overall even if he's not specifically a rival to Ryu or Ken specifically.

Thing is, if we were to see a new Street Fighter character join the mix, it'd likely be Chun-Li given her notable status as one of the bigger female characters (in terms of popularity and overall importance) in gaming as a whole. I feel it's unlikely we'd see a non-SFII character given the music selection as a very small microcosm of what Smash seems to be representing there.

Even so? I think SF has a lot of potential for reps. One character that could in theory work is Sagat given his more personal connection as a villain to Ryu, but then he's been on his redemption arc pretty much ever since SFII...

My own favourite pick would never make it in, being Twelve from SFIII, but I think his unique animations and moveset - being able to freely morph his body as needed, and even replicate opponents Ditto style - would really make him unique to the rest of the cast, despite being intended to "copy" others. I wouldn't die on the hill of him getting in, as I recognise SF alone has a lot more interesting picks, he just seems like a fun idea to me.

Nice pick, man.
M. Bison fits more than Akuma himself.

 

[Chuderz]

I wanted to do a more comprehensive "give Sora more stuff" post. Sora's great and all but I feel like he's a little basic. Just like Banjo they didn't DLC the crap out of him and I'm here to fix that! First let's start with the slight reworks!

Jab rework:
Sora's new jab will be a 4-hit combo just like Terry's. It's mostly the jab he has right now but the first attack will be the unique striking motion of his Forward-Tilt that being the very first swing of the Forward-Tilt. You can actually see this mostly in-game right now by doing the first hit of his Forward-Tilt and then doing his entire jab immediately afterward. So to reiterate it's the first strike of the current Forward-Tilt and then the entirety of his current jab.

NEW Dash Attack: https://youtu.be/GMYb5NDCUgA?t=299
Sora's new Dash attack will be his Sliding Dash from KH2. I guess they were going for more of a reference to his KH1 Sliding Dash but I don't even really feel like it's totally accurate without Sora using Keyblade as a means of generating the momentum for the dash like he actually does in KH1. Anyway with the KH2 Sliding Dash Sora lunges forward with his Keyblade pointing forward horizontally and at the point of contact all momentum will halt in order for Sora to end the attack with a quick spin attack but ONLY if he lands the initial strike. It's an automatic true-combo like he has in-game now with his aerials and jab.


NEW Forward-Tilt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeZ_J6sVdeo
Sora's new Foward-Tilt will be Strike Raid. Sora throws his Keyblade like a freaking Shuriken and after a fixed distance it instantly teleports back to him. Sora is vulnerable (a character without a moveset almost) while his Keyblade is out though but he can still shield, jump, spotdoge, airdodge and grab and should he land a grab while his Keyblade is out during the Strike Raid animation it will instantly teleport back to him at anytime even before the automatic fixed distance teleport. It functions very similarly to Prya's Blazing End but it's a good deal weaker but it's quicker and like I already said it instantly teleports back to Sora and he can still grab unlike Pyra. While the move is pretty self-explanatory the link as always is for visual reference.

NEW Throws:
This is kind of where I feel Sora is very lacking. Other than the Up-Throw being a nice little reference to Sora using items and the pummel being serviceable I feel they're all way too basic. Brawlfan1 pretty much nails all the other throws by basing them on his various reaction commands from KH2. So I'm just going to link them because Brawlfan1 does a good job explaining the move with the accompanying visual reference and substantiating where it comes from. I really like his Back-Throw idea and I actually only don't like his Up-Throw idea which is perfect because I think Smash team's Up-Throw is good enough.

Forward-Throw: https://youtu.be/GMYb5NDCUgA?t=633
Back-Throw: https://youtu.be/GMYb5NDCUgA?t=649
Down-Throw: https://youtu.be/GMYb5NDCUgA?t=678

Shield-Special:
Sora will have a Shield-Special and it will be Aeroga! It'll incorporate his current Aeroga taunt completely animation, pose and voice line in all! Though as I've previously laid out in my design philosophy for Shield-Specials this attack will have to be held for a short while (about the same amount of time Inkling's ink storage goes from empty to full) before the attacks functions as intended. He can only do this grounded and he can't shield during it.

We're going to add a little extra voice line and animation though. Sora will do his Smash trailer Keyblade spin. He starts the momentum for the spin with a swing from his back to his front and as the Keyblade reaches the front of his body he twirls the Keyblade 360 degrees a couple of times then finally at the end of the final spin animation he clasps his free hand to the hilt of the Keyblade and thrusts it vertically upwards (just like his current Aeroga taunt) and says "Wind!" as he does with his current taunt. During the start-up he'll also say "Let's go!" before he says the "Wind!" line so it'll be like "Let's go! Wind!" all together.

The actual attack will be a typical Smash gust of wind. It'll function a lot like Megaman's Up-Air in terms of the look of the attack and hitbox. It'll be a multi-hit move just like Megaman's Up-Air but it'll be wider and slower. It'll go just as far and in the same vertical trajectory.

Extended animation visual and audio reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=361LgylscdI&t=134s

Gimmicks:
I feel like with the appropriate creativity we could incorporate his other taunts into his actual moveset.

Stopga will be Sora's passive Shield-Roll (I guess it's called dodge leniency) which will function like Bats Within and Foresight. The beautiful animation of the current taunt will stay but the vertical Keyblade thrust will be scrapped in this particular instance. If Sora rolls just as an attack hits his shield Sora will say "Time!" and the opponent will be slowed for a brief just like the two aforementioned abilities. Just like the other "dodge leniency" abilities Sora will take half the damage the attack otherwise would have inflicted.

Curaga will be quite a little trick I feel like I figured out. Instead of some boring unlikely and clunky passive trigger I've instead come up with some much more accessible but still fairly pointless! Curega will be set to a Get-Up-Attack-Hold input! When Sora is downed he can tap the Jab-input to do a normal Get-Up-Attack like everybody else BUT if the player was to hold the Jab input Sora will do his normal Get-Up-Attack and then at the end of the animation he'll thrust his Keyblade vertically and say "Heal!" with animation and all! This will heal Sora about 1-3% either a fixed amount or randomly. It's basically useless because Sora's so floaty he's doesn't have many chances to use his Get-Up-Attack in general but it's also just a little weak heal that he has to take enemy damage to use in the first place and of course on top of all that he's open for another attack during the process of all of this but still sometimes you'll be able to get it off to reap the small the benefit it has to offer. The vertical Keyblade thrust in this instance has a small and weak hitbox at the tip of the blade.

Passive:
Last but certainly not least I want to give Sora the Peach/Daisy float passive ability just like he has in his games. I mean he even did it in the trailer! What gives? Well it's probably the fact that he can do Sonic Blade out of his recovery that'd make him having a float be overkill. Honestly I'd be willing to trade that for the float though. He can still choose either Sonic Blade or Aerial Sweep to recover but he can't do both anymore. The float is a better trade-off I think because it'll allow for you to be more precise with his aerials.

END:

Well that's it for that one. I'd now like to figure out a moveset for Master Chief that's just as comprehensive as my Crash Bandicoot one. Thanks to anybody that might have read this. I tend to overthink my most-wanteds. Cloud, Crash, Sora, Master Chief, Banjo-Kazooie have been my 5 most-wanteds forever so even though I'm thankful most of them are already in the game and think they're mostly great as is I still just can't help but feel like they could have much more.

 

[JOJONumber691]

People were talking about Shield Specials. While I think everyone should have one, they are very tricky to design. Since a lot of characters don’t really need one. I think I have a decent idea of how to implement them. If a character has a Utility, it should always be the Shield Special. For example, Limit is now a Shield Special, and so is Rebel’s Guard. I’d also imagine some characters could now get some dedicated Utility Moves, like Wario eating Garlic to charge Waft (and to bring back Wario-Man via RNG), or Hero having an MP Recharge similar to everyone in DBFZ. Sam applies to Pokemon Trainer and Aegis, with Zelda and Sheik being merged again on top of that.

There’s the idea of everyone with a Counter having their Counter put here. …..no? I don’t agree with this in the slightest. Some characters should have this, but others shouldn’t. Corrin is a character who should since it works much better on the ground. Have the Down Special bring in Azura (the actual well written character) to do something. Marth or Sephiroth should keep theirs on Down Special however since I feel they would benefit from it. Marth’s should get a buff. While Sephiroth’s will always activate. These are the Types of Counters that shouldn't be Sheild Specials.

The Final Type I could imagine are actual attacks that you wouldn't want to use in the Air. Stuff like Kirby's Wheel or Ganondorf's Warlock Punch are great examples of what I'm talking about here. This would probably be the bulk of them considering how I think the other two would be Half combined, so yeah the other half are Attacks that should never be used in the air.

 

[Simnm]

Personally, I'd suggest M. Bison would be most reasonable, simply for the sake of having a unique moveset. As much as I'd love to see, for instance, Gill, Vega or Urien (as well as many others!), Bison is one of the more recognisable villains overall even if he's not specifically a rival to Ryu or Ken specifically.

Thing is, if we were to see a new Street Fighter character join the mix, it'd likely be Chun-Li given her notable status as one of the bigger female characters (in terms of popularity and overall importance) in gaming as a whole. I feel it's unlikely we'd see a non-SFII character given the music selection as a very small microcosm of what Smash seems to be representing there.

Even so? I think SF has a lot of potential for reps. One character that could in theory work is Sagat given his more personal connection as a villain to Ryu, but then he's been on his redemption arc pretty much ever since SFII...

My own favourite pick would never make it in, being Twelve from SFIII, but I think his unique animations and moveset - being able to freely morph his body as needed, and even replicate opponents Ditto style - would really make him unique to the rest of the cast, despite being intended to "copy" others. I wouldn't die on the hill of him getting in, as I recognise SF alone has a lot more interesting picks, he just seems like a fun idea to me.

I think if we were to get more sf reps i think a sf villain is pretty high priority
So i think they might add chun li alongside a street fighter villain
The question is that if they are willing two unique characters from a third party franchise at the same time (chun li and m bison)or will they go with one unique fighter and a semi clone(chun li and akuma)

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I think if we were to get more sf reps i think a sf villain is pretty high priority
So i think they might add chun li alongside a street fighter villain
The question is that if they are willing two unique characters from a third party franchise at the same time (chun li and m bison)or will they go with one unique fighter and a semi clone(chun li and akuma)

Y'know, if they went with a semi-clone, I feel like Juri Han might genuinely be on the table in that case. I'm not sure they'd be okay with 2 echos of Ryu (I know that the Shoto archetype being copied is a reference in itself, but still.) I know Juri might not be the most popular pick, but she'd work well as a clone of Chun-Li with some different moves and frame data, even if it's literally only minor similarities. I'm not sure on this point, but still.

 

[Sucumbio]

Chun-Li's father was murdered by M. Bison iirc leading her to join Interpol. It makes a lot of sense to see them both join kinda like Sephiroth and Cloud. I think it'd be a great addition for Smash.

 

[Chuderz]

People were talking about Shield Specials. While I think everyone should have one, they are very tricky to design. Since a lot of characters don’t really need one. I think I have a decent idea of how to implement them. If a character has a Utility, it should always be the Shield Special. For example, Limit is now a Shield Special, and so is Rebel’s Guard. I’d also imagine some characters could now get some dedicated Utility Moves, like Wario eating Garlic to charge Waft (and to bring back Wario-Man via RNG), or Hero having an MP Recharge similar to everyone in DBFZ. Sam applies to Pokemon Trainer and Aegis, with Zelda and Sheik being merged again on top of that.

I think Shield-Special can be used for utility but its application is wider than that. Here's a link to my general design philosophy if you haven't already read it from the previous page: https://smashboards.com/threads/nex...scussion-thread.515747/page-136#post-24647491 . It's not entirely strict either because in that same post I game Cloud a weird one.

The only problem I foresee with making any of those utility moves being Shield-Specials (Limit, Rebel's Guard, Pokemon Trainer/Prya + Mythra switch) is that ideally they'd all have to be possible in the air still. If that can be done with Shield-Special then by all means but if it can't then I'd rather they stay as Down-Special inputs and just give the characters Shield-Specials instead.

There’s the idea of everyone with a Counter having their Counter put here. …..no? I don’t agree with this in the slightest. Some characters should have this, but others shouldn’t. Corrin is a character who should since it works much better on the ground. Have the Down Special bring in Azura (the actual well written character) to do something. Marth or Sephiroth should keep theirs on Down Special however since I feel they would benefit from it. Marth’s should get a buff. While Sephiroth’s will always activate. These are the Types of Counters that shouldn't be Sheild Specials.

Well I think it'd introduce a nice defensive gameplay loop between blocks (shields), dodges, parries, and well, counters. They'd be super punishable if spammed and would be a nice little surprise option to bait the carelessly overly-aggressive players with and I think that playstyle actual should be more punished than it currently is as biased as most players are in favor of it. I think a universal counter option akin to grab would encourage smarter play.

 

[PeridotGX]

Me every five seconds in Legends Arceus

it's not even Sinnoh references, why is N's theme in this game

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Well I think it'd introduce a nice defensive gameplay loop between blocks (shields), dodges, parries, and well, counters. They'd be super punishable if spammed and would be a nice little surprise option to bait the carelessly overly-aggressive players with and I think that playstyle actual should be more punished than it currently is as biased as most players are in favor of it. I think a universal counter option akin to grab would encourage smarter play.

In terms of mechanics, Ultimate actually favors the defender quite a bit already. You can cancel shield stun with a special or a jump, so anything that hits shield is effectively minus (meaning that the defender gets to act before the attacker). There are characters like Toon Link whose most reliable kill setup is to block an attack just to get a safe cancel into up-B. There's also a mechanic that allows you to roll while normally in shield stun if your shield gets hit too many times in a row, keeping multi-hits from being a menace, the ability to tech grabs, and the new perfect shield, which acts like a parry and allows the defender to get an even better punish. The biggest thing that benefits rushdown is how unreactable most attacks are, which is partly intentional design and partly due to hardware.

As things stand, I do think defense needs to be reworked, but less because of the strength of defense and more because the current systems encourage thoughtlessness from both players. I would get rid of shield stun cancels, tweak how much stun exists to take that change into account, and maybe make parries slightly easier because trying to time a button release is stupid. At that point I'd add a push-block or something if offense is too insane.

I agree with you in the sense that I don't think all-out rushdown offense is the answer to a better Smash game. Those characters naturally do well and don't need that much help. But I don't agree that the game mechanics should specifically aim to punish offense, and I don't really think a universal counter is the best idea when it would mainly be a band-aid on a poorly balanced base. I'd rather see the base system fixed so that the attacker is rewarded for outsmarting their opponent and the defender is rewarded for patience and being observant. I feel like Smash 4 was pretty close to nailing that part, even if it dropped the ball in other areas.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Smash Specials... Well it got me thinking. This is a overal broad reply to Chuderz , what I was thinking is going for a more traditional fighter mechanic with this. Smash Specials, and a certain "Super Smash Meter" that builds up by withholding Specials, or landing combos or KOs. This would make Specials more of a deciding factor in matches, and highly favors strategic play and know when to go for the offense or defense.

Would this work will all Specials we have right now? I'm not too sure. But there's a lot to be realized regardless, and maybe not all Specials need to be Super Smash charged, maybe some characters only have certain Specials that will make this work, others have it for their Smash attacks ? Or a mix of both.

So I already sort of stated, this Super Smash mechanic would build up with landing blows, and landing KOs, and would reset when you're KO'd yourself. Think of it as a traditional MP system, like Hero has with his spells, but you need to be on the offensive to actually build this up. Now this needs balance sure, as Fox will generally land way more blows than Bowser, so each individual attack will have to build up the meter with an individual value. A Blaster shot of Fox doesn't build up the meter like a fully charged Shadow Ball or Charge Shot, a Ganon F Air, a Ike F Smash hard read, it also should favor the character that's on the losing side, or a stock behind or so.

So let's take Mario as an example. With a Super Smash meter build up, holding his Neutral B makes him literally spam Fire Balls, each doing more damage than a regular Fire Ball would. This could also give his F Smash a stronger effect , and a bigger hitbox when he chooses to use a bit of his Super Smash meter on that attack. A meter could build up so you can charge more of your attacks during the fight. Maybe allow for up to 3 Super Smash attacks, and if you exceed that, you can get a free Final Smash? Of course , for the competitive players these are settings you can adjust for yourself.

Now take Samus, with a Super Smash attack charged up, you can shoot a whole bunch of Missiles like the Metroid Dread Missile Storm for Side B. Or Screw Attack, working like in the actual Metroid games , allowing for up to say, 3 or 4 repetitive hits with the final one being a KO blow? Down B with Super Smash? Of course that's gonna be a Power Bomb.

Mewtwo, side B regularly is Confusion, but could become Psychic or Psystrike even with a charged Super Smash meter giving it a ranged command grab with KO properties. Super Smash charged Smash attacks could give it huge ranged hitboxes that are stronger and way harder to avoid. A Super Smash charged Teleport would allow it to attack straight afterwards.

Fox could use his Super Smash meter to really make his Side B a combo starter, when you'd land the blow, you could follow up the move with the control stick, allowing up to 5 hits. **** it let's go wild, Up B Super Smash charged gives you control of the Arwing for a little while even (which can still be attacked and damaged).

It's just a start, but this is kind of what I think would be a very interesting take on the future of Smash.

I like how this approach basically gives every character a comeback mechanic, because the Smash fanbase has grown to love those ever so much.
Not a dock at your ideas, I quite like them and could be fun if implemented well. Just an observation, ha

 

[DarthEnderX]

Me every five seconds in Legends Arceus

Why couldn't Hisuian Decidueye be Grass/Dark...

I'm never gonna get my Grass/Dark starter!

 

[Diddy Kong]

I like how this approach basically gives every character a comeback mechanic, because the Smash fanbase has grown to love those ever so much.
Not a dock at your ideas, I quite like them and could be fun if implemented well. Just an observation, ha

That's why I made sure to make a mention of competitive rulesets in these matters. But honestly, I think it would promote more aggression in competitive play too, as combos are rewarded with these Super Smash attacks. With the sole exception of Melee and Ultimate not as much, each Smash game becomes more campy as time passes by. This mechanic also would give less experienced players a fighting chance. And of course, a little strategy as to when to use these moves, and making your opponent guess which move to expect.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to propose a new potential Smash character to discuss:

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to propose a new potential Smash character to discuss:

Finally, the Polish rep for Smash!

 

[toonito]

Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to propose a new potential Smash character to discuss:

current little mac mains: new main who lil mac?

 

[Sucumbio]

That mid air spin attack tho
This game looks pretty fun!

 

[Geno Boost]

If the street fighter series were to get a villain who do you think would it be?
Akuma or m bison?

Gill honestly the most interesting one he is both fire and ice user and can ressurect himself

 

[HyperSomari64]

Since we are on the topic of forgotten gaming heroes, i want to bring to the table the 4 main characters from the Neptunia franchise.

 

[Yamat08]

On the topic of Shield-Specials, maybe they could be made to work in mid-air. How about, instead of Shield alone resulting in an immediate dodge input, you'd have to press Shield+A? That could actually compliment the special being done with Shield+B (and directional air dodges, of couse, could remain as they are).