Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Borskaboska]

I remember people being meh on hero when he was announced, then talking about him alot when he released because of his wacky rng. Conversely people were freaking out when banjo was announced but when he released everyone suddenly nothing.

 

[Gengar84]

For Banjo, I was more excited that RARE finally got a character than Banjo himself. I really enjoyed the first Banjo-Kazooie game but I was always pretty indifferent to him and Kazooie as characters. I’m still hoping for the Battletoads and Fulgore at some point down the line.

I think Pyra/Mythra might have been the most “eh” for me but I felt that way about others like Byleth, Kazuya, and Terry at the time. I love the Xenoblade series as a whole but XBC2 was the low point for me. I never really had a strong opinion about Pyra or Mythra as characters besides thinking they had some questionable costume design. The only XBC2 character I truly loved was Nia. Morag was pretty cool too but didn’t have as fun a personality and I like Zeke even though he’s just the Chinubio trope without much else, kind of like Owain from Fire Emblem.

Now, Byleth is still pretty “eh” for me for similar reasons. Three Houses was great but I’m not huge on silent protagonists. I definitely warmed up to Terry and Kazuya pretty fast because I find them both a ton of fun to play.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I think the character that got the most meh reaction from me initially was Terry.

In fact, the only characters I was excited for was Steve and Pyra/Mythra. Minecraft is just… huge. And I just love XC2 and Aegis in general.

I think I’ve warmed up to many characters over time, especially Terry, Byleth, Kazuya, and Sora. I think that’s what happens when time passes and you look back, and speculation takes a back seat.

I think it’s best to reflect on what we did get, what they represent.

Something of this scale is unlikely to happen again, and that would make Ultimate more special.

Next game though, do not take Ultimate’s DLC as precedent. Otherwise, everyone will be expecting Master Chief and left dissatisfied when they come out with say, Toad on the other side.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Kazuya probably had the most muted reactions. I don't even think he latched on with the Smash fanbase as much as Terry did, despite being more popular than him and similarly being accompanied by a ton of great music. I wonder why? I feel like they're both very fun to play as and very frustrating to play against.
For me personally, my most muted reaction was definitely Sora. I understand why he's here and I kinda like to play as him, but eh. He doesn't stand out all that much to me.

The Hero/Banjo/Terry triplet was the best.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Kazuya probably had the most muted reactions. I don't even think he latched on with the Smash fanbase as much as Terry did, despite being more popular than him and similarly being accompanied by a ton of great music. I wonder why? I feel like they're both very fun to play as and very frustrating to play against.
For me personally, my most muted reaction was definitely Sora. I understand why he's here and I kinda like to play as him, but eh. He doesn't stand out all that much to me.

The Hero/Banjo/Terry triplet was the best.

I think what happened with Kazuya, was that people didn’t immediately know he was from Tekken. I know this, because this happened to me.

Nowadays, my attitude to Kazuya is that I’d expect him to return in a new game, alongside his fellow Namco pal Pac-Man.

 

[fogbadge]

Well if we’re listing our fighters pass reactions

Joker - I rolled my eyes and went of course. Since playing persona 5 I have come around to him

Hero - this was my muted reaction as we seem to be putting it. Playing DQ8 had the opposite effect of playing P5 for me

B&K - pure hype. Love their games love them

Terry - don’t really remember. Probably underwhelming

Byleth - irritating. but got over now I just think he should have a different moveset

Min Min - hype. It was great seeing ARMS get some love and she was one of my favourite characters

Steve - muted again. Kinda of boring but has some nice music

Sephiroth - this was awesome. far from my second pick for a FF character but still nice

Pythra - irritating. probably would have gotten over it if the fans hadn’t kept rubbing salt in the wound afterwards

Kazuya - underwhelming

Sora - pure hype. KH is one of my favourite gaming franchises

 

[Gengar84]

I’ll break my reactions down by character too I suppose:

Joker - Pure hype. He was one of my most wanted characters I didn’t think had a huge chance

Hero - Slightly positive. I enjoyed Dragon Quest VIII and XI but it’s hard to get too excited about silent protagonists. I know that also applies to Joker but I love other things like the music about Persona more than DQ.

Banjo-Kazooie - Pretty excited to see RARE get a character even if the weren’t my top choice

Terry - Pretty meh at first but he’s become one of my favorites to play

Byleth - This was a pretty big disappointment but I thought it was more funny than anything given the reaction to FE already by this point. My disappointment was mostly on me for giving myself hope it could be the Battletoads due to Sakurai’s hand gesture. I like Three Houses so it was fine

Min Min - I’ve never played ARMS so I don’t really care about any character from it. Her moveset looked kind of boring too in my opinion. Still happy for her fans

Steve - Literally my least wanted character but I just kind of laughed here too and I was happy for his fans. My brother and friend didn’t take it as well and I found myself having to justify his inclusion and defending him to them and him for months. After he and Min Min were revealed back to back, I decided not to buy the second pass.

Sephiroth - The complete opposite to Steve and one of my very most wanted. He changed my decision not to buy the pass pretty quickly. I made a mod of him over Marth in Brawl that was my most downloaded mod so it was cool to actually finally get him as a real newcomer

Pythra - Mostly meh again but slightly positive. I love the series but never cared much about them as characters and didn’t care for a lot of other things about their game. The stage was a bit of a letdown too. Awesome music though.

Kazuya - A bit meh at first but leaning positive because he had a pretty cool design and I played a bit of Tekken. Like Terry, he quickly became one of my favorites to play

Sora - I really like Kingdom Hearts but Sora as a character is pretty meh to me. Still pretty excited to see the series represented in Smash and it gives me some hope for other characters in the series I like more in the future.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Might as well follow suit with my initial reactions.

- plant
- Okay…? Neat visual style, I guess.
- Cool.
- Hey, that’s nice. At least Banjo fans can rest now.
- Who? (No, seriously, this was my reaction).
- Oh.
- Okay. I guess it’s nice one of Nintendo’s newer faces gets to shine.
- What’s this? Something I’m familiar with? Great.
- Who? Oh wait… Final Fantasy? New content? Nice one.
- FINALLY. A character I actively wanted in Smash. Only thing missing is Pneuma, but at least official art of her released.
- Who? Oh, Tekken? Okay, that makes sense.
- Uh, cool? I guess it’s nice to end on the ballot winner that happened before my time.

Overall, a lot of my opinions have become more positive as time has gone on since speculation died down since Ultimate ended its DLC. Mainly because I didn’t care about many of them at first.

 

[TheQuester]

Also I realise I had something typed up to talk about this but I forgot to post it.

I would say between Dark Souls and Elden Ring, the Tarnished (Elden Ring protagonist) probably makes more sense than the Chosen Undead (Dark Souls 1 protagonist), Elden Ring was such a massive dominating success that catapulted FromSoft's library beyond just the gaming community. I think it's tempting to favour Dark Souls for the legacy and history behind that name, and I think that definitely makes sense, but Elden Ring's sheer popularity makes me favour it. Part of the theme of Dark Souls is that ultimately the choice you make about linking the fire doesn't matter, and the world forgets about you no matter what. Dark Souls is a story about its world, less so about the Chosen Undead, who's destined to be irrelevant and forgotten both within the game itself and especially in the sequels. Elden Ring is also very much a story about its world, but I would say it's much more about the Tarnished than Dark Souls is about the Chosen Undead, the player character is given more agency and narrative function, and is treated that way in marketing in a way the Dark Souls protagonists aren't. It kind of lines up with how Elden Ring's story is more about "the world got ****ed up due to the actions of this one person" while Dark Souls is more about "the world got ****ed up due to the cycle of life and power", drastically oversimplifying ofc.

I don't think either would struggle for a moveset either, but Elden Ring is such a massive game that you could give the Tarnished 10 distinct movesets with zero overlap without having to make up any moves, I think it'd be easier to veer away from a sword and shield + spells build that the Chosen Undead might gravitate too while still feeling like a Soulsborne protagonist.

Imo, the ideal way to handle Elden Ring/Dark Souls in Smash within reason (ie not just adding playable characters for both, though it is probably big enough to warrant two characters) would be like:

• Tarnished playable character
• Stage revolving around the Erdtree
• An Anor Londo stage, with variants for both Dark Souls and Dark Souls 3 depending on the music playing
• A Dark Souls boss for the singleplayer. There's a lot of good options, and I think if it actually happened for whatever reason it would probably be Ornstein and Smough, but I would personally go with Slave Knight Gael
• Solaire assist trophy

And of course, Bloodborne PC unveiled within game when you beat classic mode at 9.9 difficulty without taking damage while wearing a blindfold.

I'm not sure about an Elden Ring rep, while is true it took the world by storm, i think it has two problems that might prevent it from happening:
. It's only 2 years old as it came out in Feb 2022.
. It's not in a nintendo console.
I can't see Sakurai picking Elden Ring over Dark Souls with those factors.
Also Elden Ring is no longer Bandai Namco's IP as FromSoft adquired it.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm not sure about an Elden Ring rep, while is true it took the world by storm, i think it has two problems that might prevent it from happening:
. It's only 2 years old as it came out in Feb 2022.
. It's not in a nintendo console.
I can't see Sakurai picking Elden Ring over Dark Souls with those factors.
Also Elden Ring is no longer Bandai Namco's IP as FromSoft adquired it.

yeah it’s be like bayo getting in before Dante. Oh wait

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think what happened with Kazuya, was that people didn’t immediately know he was from Tekken. I know this, because this happened to me.

Nowadays, my attitude to Kazuya is that I’d expect him to return in a new game, alongside his fellow Namco pal Pac-Man.

That must have only just been your reaction because people do know Kazuya is from Tekken. He appears in every game in the series.

 

[ninjahmos]

That must have only just been your reaction because people do know Kazuya is from Tekken. He's in every game in the series.

Except Tekken 3, when he was replaced by Jin... at the time.

 

[Perkilator]

yeah it’s be like bayo getting in before Dante. Oh wait

Bayonetta at least has stronger ties to Nintendo, which is more than can be said for Elden Ring over Dark Souls.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Except Tekken 3, when he was replaced by Jin... at the time.

He appears in one of the openings.

 

[Oracle Link]

BTW weird thing but have you guys noticed how little love 2d Zelda gets in general and in Smash?
Like HOW have we gotten 3 octorok Apearnces yet 0 of them being from their more important 2d Apearences?
How have we gotten 0 2d Link Models!
But we get Zelda from 2d games? You know the character to be notorius to be be kidnapped immeadiatly and only saved near the end?

We also only have 2 stages one of which barely count and the other had to be added cause 3ds!

2D Zelda really deserves some love! (maybe as a lego set?)

 

[Sucumbio]

Eh why not

- "wtf?" So exactly what they wanted lol
- "who?" Still haven't played these games but I'd like to
- "Yay!" I don't care for his kit but I'm just happy Dragon Quest got its well-deserved rep
- Fairly indifferent. Never played them and honestly I had lumped them together in my head with every other furry 3d platforming character. Nowadays though I'm just happy for their fans and I'm even on board with Crash joining despite originally feeling as if they're all the same.
- "Nice!" Used to play in the arcade so this was a nice surprise.
- At the time I hated 3 houses so I hated his inclusion but as time passed 3H grew on me as did the character in Smash. I'd still have preferred Edleguard as to me she's the main character, but as a smash fighter, Byleth is lots of fun!
- Awesome trailer! Not big on ARMS or her design tho ...
- I was actually really surprised Microshaft played ball with Nintendo but once BK was in it seemed right
- So. Fng. Hype!! That trailer still gives me shivers. This was not just a pleasant surprise it made me blurt out "Oh ****!" IRL lol
- eh she looked cool, happy for her fans, not a fan myself of the Xenoblade games.
- I had wanted Heihachi since Brawl and he's the next best thing. Truly was a day of days on reveal. And I actually dig his kit, it is better than I imagined it could be.
- gonna be real, F kingdom hearts lol but I'm happy for his fans. When he revealed I was like oh, but I didn't really feel disappointed or anything cause I was still reeling from Kazuya.

 

[fogbadge]

- At the time I hated 3 houses so I hated his inclusion but as time passed 3H grew on me as did the character in Smash. I'd still have preferred Edleguard as to me she's the main character, but as a smash fighter, Byleth is lots of fun!

you’ve only played the crimson flower route I take it?

 

[chocolatejr9]

you’ve only played the crimson flower route I take it?

TBF it's the only good route in the game.

 

[fogbadge]

TBF it's the only good route in the game.

Sure if you’re English and want to relive the glory days of the empire

 

[Lionfranky]

I'm not sure about an Elden Ring rep, while is true it took the world by storm, i think it has two problems that might prevent it from happening:
. It's only 2 years old as it came out in Feb 2022.
. It's not in a nintendo console.
I can't see Sakurai picking Elden Ring over Dark Souls with those factors.
Also Elden Ring is no longer Bandai Namco's IP as FromSoft adquired it.

Here we go again...

 

[chocolatejr9]

View attachment 390279
Here we go again...

This implies this mentality never went away...

 

[Gengar84]

My opinion is that Nintendo presence is helpful but isn’t a requirement for a character’s inclusion. That connection would only really make sense if it was something fairly substantial though. I feel like the only reason that stipulation would exist is to help make sure Nintendo fans were familiar with the character.

I’ll use Master Chief as an example. If he makes it in, I don’t think the fact that he’s a Minecraft skin will factor into the decision at all. He would get in because Halo is a very iconic franchise and lots of fans would be excited to see him in Smash. I’m having a hard time envisioning a scenario where anyone would be hyped only based on his Minecraft skin.

Characters like Simon, Mega Man and Banjo are different because they have had multiple games on Nintendo consoles and a lot of people associate their games with Nintendo despite being third party. Basically, the stronger the connection to Nintendo, the more that connection should help them. Characters without any Nintendo connection can still make it but they likely have a higher bar to clear as far as general popularity or importance in gaming overall. Smaller characters like Banjo are greatly helped by that association.

 

[Will]

All this arguing between Elden Ring and Dark Souls representation. You guys need to see the bigger picture.

The FromSoft rep is Sekiro.

 

[Gengar84]

My vote’s for Armored Core. Not exactly sure how that would work as a character since the mechs are so huge but it would be cool. Its also the only one of their games I’ve ever played.

 

[SPEN18]

you’ve only played the crimson flower route I take it?

I mean if you take everything together she is the most central figure in the game overall IMO

 

[fogbadge]

I mean if you take everything together she is the most central figure in the game overall IMO

that’s not what a main character is

 

[SPEN18]

that’s not what a main character is

No, but someone could mistakenly reach that conclusion without only having played CF route.

 

[fogbadge]

No, but someone could mistakenly reach that conclusion without only having played CF route.

so what I was getting at then

 

[SPEN18]

so what I was getting at then

I don't think so? I thought you were saying that someone would only call her the main character if they only played CF route. I was just saying that she's a plot-central character regardless of what route you play, so someone might describe her that way regardless of what route(s) they know, even if it's not technically correct.

Anyway, it's probably not worth continuing this, but feel free to clarify yourself if you like.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't think so? I thought you were saying that someone would only call her the main character if they only played CF route. I was just saying that she's a plot-central character regardless of what route you play, so someone might describe her that way regardless of what route(s) they know, even if it's not technically correct.

Anyway, it's probably not worth continuing this, but feel free to clarify yourself if you like.

sorry I misread that as with rather than without

 

[Gengar84]

I always thought Claude seemed like the least important of all the house leaders. I’ve only beaten Dimitri’s route and played the first half of Edelgarde’s so maybe I’m not getting the whole picture. From what I’ve played, I just feel like the story would be largely the same if he wasn’t there.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I'm not sure about an Elden Ring rep, while is true it took the world by storm, i think it has two problems that might prevent it from happening:
. It's only 2 years old as it came out in Feb 2022.
. It's not in a nintendo console.
I can't see Sakurai picking Elden Ring over Dark Souls with those factors.
Also Elden Ring is no longer Bandai Namco's IP as FromSoft adquired it.

It's worth noting that Dark Souls would require negotiating with FromSoft as well, Bandai Namco owns the trademark while FromSoft owns the IP itself, so it's a case where neither can do anything with the franchise without the other, which is fairly common. FromSoft purchased the Elden Ring trademark in March 2023 cause they've grown big enough to begin self publishing worldwide, so it would technically be easier to negotiate an Elden Ring character than a Dark Souls one.

It's definitely not a perfect comparison, but I would consider Elden Ring to Dark Souls what Skyrim was to The Elder Scrolls in terms of how it blew up. Dark Souls and The Elder Scrolls were both already popular franchises with a strong core fanbase and a lot of legacy, which sold in the range of a few million copies for each main entry. Elden Ring and Skyrim are the games that catapulted them into major mainstream recognition. Elden Ring sold over 13 million copies in a month, and is currently at nearly 25 million. For reference, Skyrim sold 20 million units within 19 months, and had pretty much the same rate of sales, Elden Ring a bit faster. Obviously there's a different market there and the gaming landscape has changed a lot between the releases of those two games, but I think it speaks to how much of a phenomenon Elden Ring was. Even in the context of other franchises, look at Monster Hunter which is brought up a lot and is undeniably one of the biggest Japanese game franchises. Its best selling game is Monster Hunter World. By March 2024, it had officially sold 25 million units and took over 6 years to do so. Elden Ring did that in less than a 1/3rd as much time. Overfocusing on sales makes me sound like a bot, but it won game of the year as well, so I think its merits as a game are well discussed at least lol.

All that is to say I think it has loads of merit for Smash beyond what's usually talked about, it's one of those games I feel would transcend the lack of Nintendo presence due to its universal recognition. There's really very few games that are so massive and also Japanese that aren't in Smash. This is speculation as well, but I would also hazard a guess that an Elden Ring port will be one of the big marquee Switch 2 titles soon after its release. Like I said, I feel like it very much could occupy the same position Skyrim did in the Switch 1's debut trailer.

All this arguing between Elden Ring and Dark Souls representation. You guys need to see the bigger picture.

The FromSoft rep is Sekiro.

Bloodborne Hunter clears.

 

[fogbadge]

I always thought Claude seemed like the least important of all the house leaders. I’ve only beaten Dimitri’s route and played the first half of Edelgarde’s so maybe I’m not getting the whole picture. From what I’ve played, I just feel like the story would be largely the same if he wasn’t there.

Claude’s the actual nice one of the three

 

[dezeray112]

Except Tekken 3, when he was replaced by Jin... at the time.

At that time, Kazuya lost to Heihachi during the events of Tekken 2 (the second King of Iron Fist Tournament and was thrown in to a mouth of a volcano.

Coming from someone who is very familiar with the Tekken franchise since Tekken 3, I do pretty much understand why Kazuya was picked as he had been in almost every Tekken game (except for the third as stated above.)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Reactions to DLC

: WTF IS THIS ACTUAL ****?
: Who dis? And why? Popular on Playstation? OK, cool, but now what?
: Very cool, actively got into Dragon Quest because of this.
: AWESOME x 100000000
: Who dis? Oh fighting game character, those always translate well. Cool. He was popular in South America? Cool. Guess someone's listening.
: Awesome. Loved Three Houses, kinda hoped they went for a more canon move set. Still kinda irks me, but it works representing the whole of Fire Emblem. I was genuinely hyped.
: Oh the popular pick? Cool.
: Money talks. GEE I SURE HOPE THIS WON'T BE ANY SORT OF OBNOXIOUS CHARACTER!!!
: This is actually very cool. Got into FF7 for Switch, never finished it. Cool entry, even cooler trailer. Very nice [/Borat voice]
: Before playing XBC2; is this hentai? After playing XBC2: This is genuinely very cool and awesome and amazing. I did end up playing XBC2 because of this. Cool as ****.
: Fighting game characters are always cool to me. Expected Heiachi however. Wasn't disappointed. Cool addition, liked him better than Terry cause I knew him.
: Not my cup of tea. Nice for the supporters, but honestly couldn't be bothered myself.

 

[Gengar84]

Claude’s the actual nice one of the three

Dimitri was nice before he snapped and after he recovered. Edelgarde is nice to her friends at least and she has some justification for her actions based on everything that happened to her.

 

[TheQuester]

yeah it’s be like bayo getting in before Dante. Oh wait

Thats not really a good comparision
Bayonetta was almost a 7 year old franchise when it was added.
Bayonetta latest game at the time was funded by Nintendo
Devil May Cry had no games in Nintendo consoles at the time.

 

[DarthEnderX]

- BOO!
- Fine.
- **** YEAH!!
- Makes sense.
- Yeah!
- BOO!
-Fine.
- Makes sense.
- Yeah!
- Boo.
- Fine.
- Makes sense.

 

[TheQuester]

My opinion is that Nintendo presence is helpful but isn’t a requirement for a character’s inclusion

I would agree, but until we get a character in Smash Bros that has no Nintendo apareances, i chose to keep my belief that is better to no expect any character with no Nintendo apareances to get in.

All that is to say I think it has loads of merit for Smash beyond what's usually talked about, it's one of those games I feel would transcend the lack of Nintendo presence due to its universal recognition. There's really very few games that are so massive and also Japanese that aren't in Smash. This is speculation as well, but I would also hazard a guess that an Elden Ring port will be one of the big marquis Switch 2 titles soon after its release. Like I said, I feel like it very much could occupy the same position Skyrim did in the Switch 1's debut trailer.

It could, but i wouldn't expect a Elden Ring character to get in at all, as for 2024, we have no character in Smash Bros who didn't aparear in a Nintendo console (or it's series) in some way, so it's possible it could very well be a roadblock and Sakurai wants to only add characters that Nintendo fans were able to play at some point.
Maybe it's not a roadblock and it's a concidence and we get one or two the next game, but for now, it's better to no expect them.

 

[SharkLord]

It's definitely Kazuya. He's like the only Fighters Pass character to near-unanimously have people kinda go, "okay".

I remember seeing some pushback or disappointment toward Hero. Min Min, Pyra, Sora, and ESPECIALLY Byleth had substantial instances of negativity (from some groups/people) surrounding their inclusion, while Joker, Banjo, Steve, and Sephiroth were praised the most.

The only non-Kazuya character that I could see one make an argument for having a lukewarm reception is Terry, but once the ball got rolling on him with Sakurai's presentation and his sheer love for the character, I'm pretty sure that nudged people over the fence and to the more positive side.

So yeah, I saw Kazuya as "true neutral" in regards to DLC character reception. Of course there's always someone out there who's mad at any character's inclusion, but from what I remember discussion surrounding the character was... eerily civil. (For Smash fans on social media, at least.)

Kazuya definitely feels like he engendered the most neutral reaction. Fans saw his potential sure and Tekken was significant enough to warrant at character in Smash but between how complex is mechanics were and the general space between SSB players and much of the traditional fighting game sphere, there was some lack of enthusiasm as a result. He was respected and in an almost intellectual sense appreciated, just not outright loved by much of the fandom.

I think part of it might also be a bit of speculation fatigue, at least on the SmashBoards side of things. After multiple years of DLC speculation, including the mid-pandemic "nothing is happening" period, we were finally approaching the end, so everyone was kinda tired out. Though, part of it might also be familiarity with the source material; Everyone acknowledged Tekken was pretty big, but it seemed like the bulk of the Smash fanbase weren't also tekken fans, so naturally they weren't quite as excited at Kazuya's presence