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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m thinking. There’s no real reason for a deluxe version if they could just keep building on the one we already have. Killer Instinct 2013 just got an update last year 10 years after its release so it’s not unheard of. In KI’s case, it was just a balance patch but Mario Kart 8 Deluxe also got content long after release.
Mario Kart shouldn't count because it was clearly preservation for Tour. Were it not for that, I doubt the Booster Course Pass would even be a thing.

With that said, Skullgirls is another fighting game that has had some longevity. They just dropped a character last month, iirc. Not bad for a 12 year old game.
 
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Noipoi

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I thought Sakurai said that Ultimate may have been his last Smash at some point. Maybe I’m remembering wrong but I don’t think it’s a 100% guarantee we’ll get another game. Still likely because the series sells really well but I don’t think it’s a sure thing.
Or they could just get another guy to do it.

Smash is Sakurai’s baby, and Nintendo knows that and respects that. But Smash is also a massive money maker and hype generating machine, the centerpiece of each of their consoles. Theres no way they’d give that up because the old director felt like his time had come.

Nintendo owns Smash at the end of the day. If they want a new one and Sakurai isn’t willing, they’ll just get a new director.
 

CannonStreak

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I thought Sakurai said that Ultimate may have been his last Smash at some point. Maybe I’m remembering wrong but I don’t think it’s a 100% guarantee we’ll get another game. Still likely because the series sells really well but I don’t think it’s a sure thing.
I think you heard wrong, not that it would stop a Smash 6 anyway.

Even then, though he has gotten older, Sakurai said similar things about being done with Smash in the past.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Nintendo owns Smash at the end of the day. If they want a new one and Sakurai isn’t willing, they’ll just get a new director.
Which was literally the plan for Brawl originally; if Sakurai had refused to direct a new Smash game, we'd have gotten a Melee port.

That's not to say that "if Sakurai says no, we're getting Ultimate Deluxe" though, but rather than Nintendo is not afraid of getting a new director if Sakurai doesn't come back.
 
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Contrast the last time a port was suggested with Melee for the Wii... but it didn't have to have DLC(not that it couldn't). Sakurai easily made an all new game with lots of new content instead of a port. And it did really well as well as added tons of great stuff(not that it didn't have its own issues, but every game has downsides).
Yeah, but Ultimate is diferent, a new game means that theres a risk of cut characters, which could be risky since of the big characters in the ult roster, while brawl had cuts most of them werent that important (except Mewtwo), Ultimate cuts will be dexit again, mark my words.
 
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Noipoi

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Yeah, but Ultimate is diferent, a new game means that theres a risk of cut characters, which could make the game less interesting for consumers, while brawl had cuts most of them werent that important (except Mewtwo), Ultimate cuts will be dexit again, mark my words.
Do I have to explain the specific circumstances that led to Dexit being an issue not applying to Smash again?
 

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I've always been expecting a Smash 6 anyway. It makes a lot more sense business-wise. A port is massively unlikely.

Besides that, Ultimate has been confirmed hard finished, so it's not getting more. And no, the last few Spirits we got isn't actual evidence to the contrary. We had datamines that showed many were missing. Now they're all here.

Yeah, but Ultimate is diferent, a new game means that theres a risk of cut characters, which could make the game less interesting for consumers, while brawl had cuts most of them werent that important (except Mewtwo), Ultimate cuts will be dexit again, mark my words.
This happened every time except for Melee or Ultimate. It's not as much of a big deal as you're making it. It absolutely sucks, but cuts happen everywhere.

And Dexit didn't stop the Pokemon games from being some of the best-selling. The issue wasn't with the cuts in particular. They "sucked", but the clearly not true excuse given was what got people annoyed. And it's justified annoyance too. Why lie? You not being able to balance it out at that point is completely fair and should've just been kept to that.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Yeah, but Ultimate is diferent, a new game means that theres a risk of cut characters, which could be risky since of the big characters in the ult roster, while brawl had cuts most of them werent that important (except Mewtwo), Ultimate cuts will be dexit again, mark my words.
Tbh, this is clear cut proof of how spoiled Smash players are because beloved characters being at risk of being cut is common practice for fighting games.

Smash is a notable exception, having had less cuts in its entire series lifetime than Street Fighter did just from 5 to 6. Or Mortal Kombat did from 11 to 1.

Mark my words. The next Smash will be brutal if you're not ready for it.
 
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DarthEnderX

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I never thought I'd see members of a fandom fight so hard against getting a sequel. Wacky.
Why would I want a sequel when most folks seem to think it's going to be lesser than what we have now?

How many Warcraft fans do you see asking for a World of Warcraft 2?

An Ultimate Deluxe with only 2 or 3 new characters IS a huge risk.
...why would an Ultimate Deluxe only have 2 or 3 new characters? If nothing else, UD would be an excuse to start making Fighter's Passes again.

Mario Kart shouldn't count because it was clearly preservation for Tour. Were it not for that, I doubt the Booster Course Pass would even be a thing.
Regardless of WHY it happened, it was still an overwhelming success. Which would have taught Nintendo that it's a viable model. One they don't need an excuse like Tour to repeat with other games.

Smash is Sakurai’s baby, and Nintendo knows that and respects that. But Smash is also a massive money maker and hype generating machine, the centerpiece of each of their consoles. Theres no way they’d give that up because the old director felt like his time had come.
Indeed. Nintendo's respect for Sakurai extends to the point where they'll always ask him to return.

But if he ever actually said no, they'd just find someone else. In fact, that's the reason Sakurai has said yes in the past, because he didn't want someone else to do it.
 
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Noipoi

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No kidding! It's not like it will be like Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, or Sword and Shield, which were not good games.

And those Pokemon games were not so good for reasons other than cutting Pokemon, right?
Well I’m one of those weirdos who think there’s a good game in Scarlet/Violet, they just released it way too early. Theres a lot I enjoy about it. If it weren’t for the bugs it’d be top 5 imo.
 

Kirbeh

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Honestly, if we lost half the current roster, but it was still a complete package with plenty of new content, I don't think the average consumer would care all that much. The little fan bubbles throughout the Internet would be pretty upset but eventually come around too save for the most stubborn Big Number enthusiasts.

Cuts are nothing new, it's ironically Nintendo just being behind in something else. Only this time it's been favorable for fans.
 
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CannonStreak

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Well I’m one of those weirdos who think there’s a good game in Scarlet/Violet, they just released it way too early. Theres a lot I enjoy about it. If it weren’t for the bugs it’d be top 5 imo.
EXACTLY, the bugs! I must admit, Scarlet and Violet had bugs, but Smash Bros. as series did not have many of those, did they not? Not the same as those Pokemon games, anyway.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Honestly, if we lost half the current roster, but it was still a complete package with plenty of new content, I don't think the average consumer would care all that much. The little fan bubbles throughout the Internet would be pretty upset but eventually come around too save for the most stubborn Big Number enthusiasts.
Exactly this. People who like to watch paint dry character select screens are but a minority of the playerbase Smash has gathered.

Ultimate's roster absolutely came at the cost of content in other places. I mean, just look at what happened to All-Star Smash!

Having a smaller roster on the next game could open the gates to have some more substantial content again.

This might be me coping, but maybe that's how we'd get another Subspace? Maybe it's how we'll get a decent netcode because it won't be all hands on deck towards the big roster?
 
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CannonStreak

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Yeah, people are still going to love Smash, either way. I bet even cutting 75% of the roster won't do much, if anything, to stop the game from selling, especially if they added new content to make up for it. I mean, Smash Bros. is a big time seller, so if 75% or less of the roster was cut, or even more than that, perhaps, new content will make it good.

Come to think of it, did Ultimate have much new content? It had all characters from past games to presumably make up for the lack of new content if there was such a lack of new content. I think having more new content and less characters could have the same good kind of impact, don't you all think?
 
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Yeah, people are still going to love Smash, either way. I bet even cutting 75% of the roster won't do much, if anything, to stop the game from selling, especially if they added new content to make up for it. I mean, Smash Bros. is a big time seller, so if 75% or less of the roster was cut, or even more than that, perhaps, new content will make it good.

Come to think of it, did Ultimate have much new content? It had all characters from past games to presumably make up for the lack of new content if there was such a lack of new content. I think having more new content and less characters could have the same good kind of impact, don't you all think?
A brand new stage roster and lots of new items is a start.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Come to think of it, did Ultimate have much new content?
The way it ruined All-Star Smash is technically new. So is the fact that they got rid of a perfectly functional For Fun/For Glory system. :4pacman:

For a more positive answer, Spirits are a fine addition (even if they're more an evolution of Brawl's stickers than an actual new thing), having an actual lobby system for online play is genuinely a good idea and it arguably has the best version of Classic Mode in the series since each character has their own tailormade mode which can incentivize aiming for a high score since there's less RNG involved.
 

CannonStreak

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The way it ruined All-Star Smash is technically new. So is the fact that they got rid of a perfectly functional For Fun/For Glory system. :4pacman:

For a more positive answer, Spirits are a fine addition (even if they're more an evolution of Brawl's stickers than an actual new thing), having an actual lobby system for online play is genuinely a good idea and it arguably has the best version of Classic Mode in the series since each character has their own tailormade mode which can incentivize aiming for a high score since there's less RNG involved.
That is good, but don't those count as new ways of doing old things, minus the Spirits (even though they were based on trophies and stickers :p) For some reason, to me, that does not seem like too much new content there. I could be wrong, though.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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That is good, but don't those count as new ways of doing old things, minus the Spirits (even though they were based on trophies and stickers :p) For some reason, to me, that does not seem like too much new content there. I could be wrong, though.
It's really not a lot of content.

And to make the issue even more glaring, Stage Builder and Home-Run Contest, two absolute mainstay features of the series, were post-launch addition this time around. The roster truly was the main focus for Ultimate above all else.

There wasn't even any target-based mode either, another series mainstay (well, not anymore thanks to Ultimate).
 
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CannonStreak

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It's really not a lot of content.

And to make the issue even more glaring, Stage Builder and Home-Run Contest, two absolute mainstay features of the series, were post-launch addition this time around. The roster truly was the main focus for Ultimate above all else.

There wasn't even any target-based mode either, another series mainstay (well, not anymore thanks to Ultimate).
So, as I said, just like how Ultimate had all character but less of new content, I think adding new content to the next game would help, even if there are less characters, would it not?
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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So, as I said, just like how Ultimate had all character but less of new content, I think adding new content to the next game would help, even if there are less characters, would it not?
That's my theory, at least.

Especially if they also switch things up with the gameplay on top of that. Imagine if we had air dashes (we probably won't but they'd be cool).
 
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CannonStreak

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That's my theory, at least.

Especially if they also switch things up with the gameplay on top of that. Imagine if we had air dashes (we probably won't but they'd be cool).
Now that is what I thought members like you were trying to say.

Switching things up with the gameplay would not be bad, either. I like the idea of air dashes.
 

Chuderz

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I'm fairly confident that Sakurai started work on Smash 6 after Ultimate whatever it is and I'm also as fairly confident that it's going to be Ultimate DX given the resources and then some (based on Sakurai's constant teasing about his budget in the DLC presentations) of a brand new Smash 6 game.

We can base this on the fact that he did the same thing from 4 to Ultimate before and his statements about not seeing anybody else being able to take reigns yet.

We also know 2 things for certain and it's that 1. the longest Nintendo goes without a Smash game for their new console is 2 years and 2. Sakurai had a meeting with Nintendo about the future of Smash immediately after Ultimate's DLC cycle and the final patch. I think that meeting is when this all was moved on internally.

Oh and we also know that Bandai Namco opened a specific division within their company that will work on Nintendo exclusives and that it's borderline guaranteed this division will be used to work on future Smash games an idea I've long advocated for.

I think should Sakurai want to keep making games into his old age he ought to seriously consider making Sora a legitimate game studio in direct collaboration with Nintendo and split his time between that and this division within Bamco during which he can groom a successor or even a team of successors for Smash.
 

Guynamednelson

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given the resources and then some...of a brand new Smash 6 game.
Ultimate was arguably given even more resources than if it was a plain-ol' Smash 5.

It still had barely any newcomers in the base game.

It still had barely any side content, and some of it had to come back in later updates.

It still had to do a bunch of kinda-sorta event matches instead of a real Subspace 2 with platforming.
 

Chuderz

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Yeah, people are still going to love Smash, either way. I bet even cutting 75% of the roster won't do much, if anything, to stop the game from selling, especially if they added new content to make up for it. I mean, Smash Bros. is a big time seller, so if 75% or less of the roster was cut, or even more than that, perhaps, new content will make it good.

Come to think of it, did Ultimate have much new content? It had all characters from past games to presumably make up for the lack of new content if there was such a lack of new content. I think having more new content and less characters could have the same good kind of impact, don't you all think?
I think it can be fairly argued that Ultimate's success is in major part due to the fact that Everyone is Here is very appealing selling point and it's not even out of the question to assume Nintendo themselves understands its success as a game this way too.
Ultimate was arguably given even more resources than if it was a plain-ol' Smash 5.
How so?
 
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Now that is what I thought members like you were trying to say.

Switching things up with the gameplay would not be bad, either. I like the idea of air dashes.
New gameplay mechanics i can think of:
. Air Dashes like Multiversus
. Smash Aerials like NASB
. Smash Dashes like NASB
. Roman Cancels like NASB and Guilty Gear
. Assists like Fraymakers
. Team Switching like MvC
. Hyper Jumps? Like right before you touch the ground if you press the jump button you can jump higher.
. Some mechanic like the infinite stones from MvC:I


I can't think of many else outside of those right now, if they make a new mechanic they have to make sure it doesnt break the game, they also dont want to alienate the fanbase too much most likely.
 

CannonStreak

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I think it can be fairly argued that Ultimate's success is in major part due to the fact that Everyone is Here is very appealing selling point and it's not even out of the question to assume Nintendo themselves understands its success as a game this way too.

How so?
Yeah. In fact, while it is not a bad thing in itself at all, I do think Everyone is Here is something that kind of had players worry about cuts for Smash 6 in the first place.

Again, that is by no means, a bad thing.
 

Chuderz

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I think another cool idea could be one I thought of as an official implementation of L-Cancelling is what I like to call "Tech-Landing".

Instead of only being able to tech when you're in a knocked back falling state you can how tap the shield button as you land for less frames and overall faster gameplay. It could use the same orange visual effect that techs already use to visually confirm to the player that they inputted the button on time and I'd also allow for tech landing to slide forward or backwards (based on the input of course) like they already do for ground techs currently.

Coupled this Tech-Landing with current ground/wall techs and fast-falling and I think you have such an amazing new mechanic for the game.
 

Gorgonzales

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I think another cool idea could be one I thought of as an official implementation of L-Cancelling is what I like to call "Tech-Landing".

Instead of only being able to tech when you're in a knocked back falling state you can how tap the shield button as you land for less frames and overall faster gameplay. It could use the same orange visual effect that techs already use to visually confirm to the player that they inputted the button on time and I'd also allow for tech landing to slide forward or backwards (based on the input of course) like they already do for ground techs currently.

Coupled this Tech-Landing with current ground/wall techs and fast-falling and I think you have such an amazing new mechanic for the game.
This would make L-canceling a lot more approachable and I think I would actually really like this implementation of it. Bring back wavedashing too, but also give it an official name and dedicated set of animations; or at the very least give some alternative movement option in its stead. There's a reason you can wavedash in most non-Smash platform fighters (with some of them explicitly advertising it as a feature).
 
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Guynamednelson

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...why wouldn't it? All its fighters are not direct copypastes of Smash 4 fighters even if it was directly built off of Smash 4 (they had up to 10,000 changes according to the E3 2018 Direct), and they had to remodel more stages than there were new stages added in Smash 4 total.
 
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