Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Going to be honest, this is coming off as being in bad faith and the only reason the idea is being brought up is to think about characters one doesn't like being unceremoniously murdered under the guise that their fans would enjoy seeing it happen.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Smash Fans are going to be toxic and nasty no matter what. That's the unfortunately inevitable. Everyone was Here and even then some for Ultimate and there you can argue the toxicity was at its worst due to sheer scale.

The idea is meant to be bold way in easing a controversial inevitability, it isn't going to please everyone. When was the latter ever possible with Smash?

So because fans will get angry like usual, we shouldn't do anything ever? People are going to be upset with cuts regardless, why not have them go out with style?

For as many people who might receive the idea positively, there are going to be just as many people if not more who find it insulting and distasteful and will thus react twice as negatively and harshly than if they were cut unceremoniously like in Brawl and Smash 4.

Again, the idea works on paper, but I really don't think it would work out in practice, regardless of whether the devs would mean for it to be a sort of proper send-off to the characters or not.

 

[Noipoi]

They aren't dead here either, just cut

When I say dead I mean completely removed from the game. Nothing that happened in the trailers or World of Light made a character inaccessible, because that’d be ridiculous.

I just think it’d be in bad taste to have a big flashy beautifully animated cutscene where fan favorite characters are destroyed, and there’s no way to save them or get them back. I think it’d put a lot of people off from even trying the game. It’s almost like an insult.

 

[Dukefire]

The internet is always a mixed bag of emotions and drama. No matter what happens, someone will be mad for personal or community reasons. Best course of action is to stand aside and ignore despite being easier said than done.

Scout bird image for laughs.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

"Hey guys, you know this character you liked playing as in Smash Ultimate? Guess what? Not only are you not able to play as them again, but watch them get their ass beaten by this shiny new villain to emphasize they aren't coming back. ISN'T THAT COOL?!"

 

[BuckleyTim]

The million dollar question with this idea is "Why would we spend resources spotlighting these characters if we're not going to do anything with them in the main game?". It's counterproductive, especially since spotlighting them in a story trailer would be arguably more love than a few actually returning characters would be getting (say, duck hunt if they aren't cut).

The other one would be asked by the fans, and it'd be "Is this story mode gonna be worth seeing characters I want to return instead getting an entire trailer dedicated to them being barred from base game at least?". If the story mode is WoL2 rather than subspace 2 (very likely considering how big the roster will most likely be) I think the answer would be very much be "id rather the single player dev time was spent towards making those characters return instead". Overreaction on my part? Yes, but that's the tradeoff you're suggesting exists with this approach.

I think characters straight up dying in canon works in stories like [insert regular fighting game] , but Smash is pretty much toys fighting each other. It's for all intents and purposes a dream match. The story really doesn't matter as much as the sandbox aspect at this point, and purposely going against that expectation, while novel, is just creating a lot of unnecessary friction for little gain.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Going to be honest, this is coming off as being in bad faith and the only reason the idea is being brought up is to think about characters one doesn't like being unceremoniously murdered under the guise that their fans would enjoy seeing it happen.

I don't recall ever being my reasoning at all.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I don't recall ever being my reasoning at all.

Of course you'd never just flat out say it.
Need to sell the narrative as a positive after all.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I have a better idea.
What if the new villain doesn't kill just a few characters, but all of them? That will make him look even more formidable.
Then instead of the characters dying, you could save them one by one during the story mode. People need a happy ending after all

 

[Noipoi]

Best course of action is to just not acknowledge the guys who didn’t make the jump. Cuts are always gonna sting for the fans. Why pour salt in the wound?

Actually, I remember seeing cute fanart from the Smash 4 days that sort of explained why certain characters couldn’t make it this time. Like the Ice Climbers were busy exploring or Snake was on another mission. Sweet little things to help cope with the loss, as it were.

Can’t do that if they’re all canonically dead

 

[AreJay25]

Fighting games have a history of not bringing back characters (at least in the base roster) if it's tied to story reasons. Sure, that's not that crazy, whatever.

The problem is that Smash is a crossover game with no overarching plot. There's no need to highlight cuts within the game itself if it's not actually tied to anything or leading to any kind of tangible payoff regarding them. It's just asking for an absolute ****storm when they're better off just.... not including the characters at all and letting people react accordingly.

 

[Noipoi]

I have a better idea.
What if the new villain doesn't kill just a few characters, but all of them? That will make him look even more formidable.
Then instead of the characters dying, you could save them one by one during the story mode. People need a happy ending after all

COLORS WEAVE

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like it’s a waste of energy to argue about this, because by all means it’s not going to pan out this way. I think it’d be a really poorly received idea to have a bunch of popular characters spectacularly wiped out with no promise of return, but if that’s how someone wants to imagine it then all power to them.

If characters can’t be playable, it’d be nice to Street Fighter it and have them just off doing other stuff if that’s possible to convey at all. Everyone getting their own sort of arcade campaign would be nice and would allow them to explore that, but seems unlikely with a roster as big as Smash. The only one I’d really see that working out for is Palutena, since if she was cut I’m sure she’d still be involved with Pit. Could make for some funny banter if they really wanted to play into it, those would be the characters to do it after all.

 

[Noipoi]

I feel like it’s a waste of energy to argue about this, because by all means it’s not going to pan out this way.

We’ve got a minimum of a year before we get some actual content to discuss.

Gotta fill that time somehow

 

[Perkilator]

Anyway, I think it’d be cool if the story mode of the next Smash took notes from NASB 2 and made it a roguelike campaign.

 

[Idon]

... Anyways check out this sick Monster Hunter concept for Smash
If this doesn't turn you into a believer I don't know what will.

Monster Hunter X Smash Bros!

I recreated SSBU with @TuxedWhale in Unreal Engine and put in the Hunter. I did the programming, design, animation (including copying SSBU animations), and about half the VFX. It was a lot of work, but it was fun! pic.twitter.com/ViAn3wY1R2

— Martin (@TuxedoPato) February 5, 2024

You can all stop with the rhetoric that MH is only about the monsters.

 

[Dukefire]

We are all waiting for the direct to see game news results....

 

[Louie G.]

We’ve got a minimum of a year before we get some actual content to discuss.

Gotta fill that time somehow

Yeah, I just mean that this is a pretty ridiculous hypothetical to begin with. There are a lot of aimless things we could be arguing about like we do every other day, I just don't think the slim chance of Nintendo violently removing a bunch of our favorite characters and rubbing it in our faces is something worth humoring for more than a few minutes.

But me saying this is just gonna extend the conversation further, so take it or leave it LOL.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Of course you'd never just flat out say it.
Need to sell the narrative as a positive after all.

You mean the narrative you conjured in your mind? Said multiple times that cuts are going to happen regardless at some point. Might as well have fun with eventual possibility with something.

You don't have to like it but i prefer you didn't have to lie on my behalf to get the point across

I have a better idea.
What if the new villain doesn't kill just a few characters, but all of them? That will make him look even more formidable.
Then instead of the characters dying, you could save them one by one during the story mode. People need a happy ending after all

I mean that just the WoL again and whilst I like the mode for what it was, i say it wouldn't the same strong effect especially with the poor reception the mode recieved.

Also, I argue on the contrary that people "need" a happy ending. It's not a nursery. You have powerful stories and narratives with downer endings.

Look at the success stuff like Infinity War achieves with its ending or even stuff like Revenge of the Sith or JoJo's with its Parts. Ofc they can and will be the payofff of victory in the end with Adventure Mode being a conclusion to it all but wouldn't not more powerful from all the stuff that came before including the grief.

People in the Smash Community have for some reason called the lead-up to release and DLC completion as a sort of journey. Why do you utilize that aspect with trailers and building off it?

I know Smash is more of a cultural phenomenon than anything else and this idea whilst interesting has many ways it can fall on its face but it doesn't hurt to speculate.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Okay, I don't think anyone was actually saying "Screw these characters, let's emphasize that they were cut by showing the new villain killing them off" so much as just suggesting it as a meta way of telling people they were cut. I don't recall any specific characters ever being named when this idea was first suggested here, either.

Just because the idea wouldn't work that well in practice doesn't mean the idea itself was founded on spite.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I really don't get it. I just thought the idea be an twist on the cut discussion and also satisfying those who want more story in Smash and now people are running off saying i want just characters i dislike gone or I just Nintendo intentionally spite and injure people when i didn't even mention who.

We maybe should move on. It's delving into same shtick against cuts anyways

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Really, I think the only way the story mode could incorporate selections/targets of the roster to explain cuts and engender the least backlash is indirectly. Like if the main story mode of the next game is fighters being sucked into another dimension, then you could probably get away with the idea the force/antagonist selected these characters for whatever reason and that any Smash figures not returning are likely fine, just not part of this particular situation.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Ok. that could be a good alternative. Not as dramatic but still

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think any potential benefit this idea could have gets outweighed by the fact that I don't want to see Pichu slaughtered.

I don't think the Pokemon company wants to see Pichu slaughtered either.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I have to admit it is fascinating that all this Microsoft multiplat talk is happening at potentially the same time Smash is in either pre-production or outright production. The obvious thing everyone goes to is Halo, Gears of War, or even something like Psychonauts, but even beyond franchises that have never been on Nintendo consoles possibly being in play in the future, we could see IP's with fairly minimal presence up till now get highlighted on the next console (and the effects of that on SSB selection). Rare is a big one with all their various titles now in hypothetical discussion about getting notable Nintendo releases again and the console race realistically being reduced to three (Sony, PC, Nintendo) could be the kind of thing to get backlogs of Zenimax and Activision Blizzard games on the next Nintendo system to maximize profits for Microsoft.

This is all early talk of course and Phil Spencer could come out this week with an announcement that they're still dedicated to hardware and franchises going multiplatform will be very exclusively selected, however that this kind of talk is even viewed as decently credible is a sign how significantly things have shifted.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If PS Studios can bring a baseball game to their consoles and their flagship titles to PC, do they have the right things to bring their games to XBOX and [and on a higher extent, Nintendo) consoles?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If PS Studios can bring a baseball game to their consoles and their flagship titles to PC, do they have the right things to bring their games to XBOX and [and on a higher extent, Nintendo) consoles?

It could be that Sony doesn't see PC as direct a competitor to them as Xbox so some releases there make financial sense.

And Sony has said that the Show going to other platforms was specifically MLB's decision.

 

[AreJay25]

If PS Studios can bring a baseball game to their consoles and their flagship titles to PC, do they have the right things to bring their games to XBOX and [and on a higher extent, Nintendo) consoles?

They could.

But it's Sony.

They won't.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Been reading the whole "cutscene of the new villain wiping out everyone who isn't coming back" discussion and honestly, I think a twist on this idea could work.

Instead of showing Ultimate's roster and everyone who's cut being slaughtered, I think it'd be a fun idea to showcase a group of assist trophies (all characters that are NOT currently playable) trying to stand up to the new villain but failing due to their lack of experience, except for one or two who make it out unscathed and are revealed to be upgraded to playable characters. Then people that complete the story mode (within 1 year of the game releasing so there's no rush) can earn some sort of ticket unique to their system, which is used to vote to "save" one of the axed assist trophies in a Smash-Ballot style poll (with the winner being added as a bonus character after the first fighter pass or whatever). I think that would be a fun way to represent a new meta-narrative thing.

I think it'd be fun. Could the community still ruin it? 101%, but we have to draw a line somewhere because the community will always have some degree of unhappiness. I'd take some unhappiness over the fanbase equivalent of a nuclear meltdown over showing cut vets being killed off

 

[Laniv]

Been reading the whole "cutscene of the new villain wiping out everyone who isn't coming back" discussion and honestly, I think a twist on this idea could work.

Instead of showing Ultimate's roster and everyone who's cut being slaughtered, I think it'd be a fun idea to showcase a group of assist trophies (all characters that are NOT currently playable) trying to stand up to the new villain but failing due to their lack of experience, except for one or two who make it out unscathed and are revealed to be upgraded to playable characters. Then people that complete the story mode (within 1 year of the game releasing so there's no rush) can earn some sort of ticket unique to their system, which is used to vote to "save" one of the axed assist trophies in a Smash-Ballot style poll (with the winner being added as a bonus character after the first fighter pass or whatever). I think that would be a fun way to represent a new meta-narrative thing.

I think it'd be fun. Could the community still ruin it? 101%, but we have to draw a line somewhere because the community will always have some degree of unhappiness. I'd take some unhappiness over the fanbase equivalent of a nuclear meltdown over showing cut vets being killed off

This sounds like a way cooler way to show characters making the jump to playable. In fact, why not include Mii costumes and other non-playable characters in the mix. Maybe include a scene where, oh, say, Toad finds the strength to take down the villain who defeated his beloved princess? Maybe?

Alternatively, the only Assist Trophy to survive is Starfy, in a pastiche of World of Light.

Not even gonna 4pacman here cause I actually want Starfy

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

So, how would you guys feel about Silent Hill representation in the next Smash? Obviously, I think like Pyramid Head or James or Heather is a stretch but I’d love the music and the town itself as a stage.

I think Resident Evil should definitely come first but I love the music and vibe of Silent Hill that I think it would be cool for it to at least be there.

 

[Louie G.]

So, how would you guys feel about Silent Hill representation in the next Smash? Obviously, I think like Pyramid Head or James or Heather is a stretch but I’d love the music and the town itself as a stage.

I think Resident Evil should definitely come first but I love the music and vibe of Silent Hill that I think it would be cool for it to at least be there.

I think Pyramid Head is a slam dunk surprise Mii Swordfighter Costume. I can perfectly envision that reveal in my head already.

Music would be nice too, although may be out of place without a proper stage. Which I would welcome in its own right, I think we should get more nonplayable content like stages and items from third party series without characters. Sega, Capcom, Namco, Konami have proven their cooperation in spades at this point so let's dig into that well a little bit further.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, how would you guys feel about Silent Hill representation in the next Smash? Obviously, I think like Pyramid Head or James or Heather is a stretch but I’d love the music and the town itself as a stage.

I think Resident Evil should definitely come first but I love the music and vibe of Silent Hill that I think it would be cool for it to at least be there.

I'll be honest. It's hard for me to think of an exciting moveset for James/Heather that doesn't involve realistic firearms. The RE protagonists at least have lots of Melee attacks and explosives.

I think Pyramid Head is the way to go. But I think Silent Hill may skip a character.

 

[Dukefire]

Just asking, do you think the direct will be announced this week or next week? Talking about it is starting to make me wonder.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just asking, do you think the direct will be announced this week or next week? Talking about it is starting to make me wonder.
View attachment 384198

It is direct season. I wouldn't be surprised if we get one soon.

Buuuuut... If they are planning a console reveal, we may wait longer.


Do you guys think we'll get one soon? We usually get one in February.

 

[NintenRob]

I'll be honest. It's hard for me to think of an exciting moveset for James/Heather that doesn't involve realistic firearms. The RE protagonists at least have lots of Melee attacks and explosives.

I think Pyramid Head is the way to go. But I think Silent Hill may skip a character.

I shudder to imagine what Pyramid heads grab and pummel is.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Speculation I've seen elsewhere (and a possible Resetera leak) has been leaning towards next week.

 

[Noipoi]

I hope the direct is this week, if it's next week I will perish.

Yes, the extra 3-4 days really does make that much difference

 

[Stratos]

Edward Carnby the protagonist from the Alone in the Dark series is one of the many video game characters I'd like as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series, but on the other hand I can't think of how that would work.

 

[Ivander]

Like I said, some series just having a stage would be enough for me. Some games would be perfect for a stage.