Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Perkilator]

If there's a Doomguy Mii Costume, what would they do? Doomguy, Doom Soldier, Doom Marine, they all have Doom in the name. Would they just call him "guy"?

He's canonically referred to as "Slayer" in Eternal, so maybe that?

 

[DarthEnderX]

You can tell this is old with Decidueye lmao.

I feel like the bigger clue is the 6 characters that are already IN Ultimate.

 

[Strife]

Yeah, let's be honest, Mortal Kombat will never happen in Smash.

Thats what I heard a lot of people say about Minecraft

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Thats what I heard a lot of people say about Minecraft

Yeah but Mortal Kombat lacks the popularity in Japan as opposed to Minecraft which is beloved worldwide.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Rain was Overshadowing her? I thought it was the other way around, since I see more Mileena talk than Rain, and not because Rain isn't hype, but just because Mileena was getting So Much pushback, that there's the whole thing about the Mileena Stans, and how Boon finally caved in

I get Mileena was in MKX, and I know the Contexts of Smash and MK are different, but here's how I Look at it

Like Waluigi, Mileena Got Major Pushback for not being in MK11, and like Waluigi, it seemed like she wasn't meant to be Playable at least from the start.

And as for Rain, There was also Sadness in him not being Playable, like how People are Sad that characters like Isaac and Shadow aren't Playable yet, and Rain was used as a Move for Shang so it seemed like he might not have been Planned to be Playable

That's why I'm comparing the characters. as for Furhter Comparisons, Noob, Jade, among other Popular veterans that returned would probably be the K.Rool of the game, Fujin is the Banjo of the Game, Spawn is the Ridley of the game (if he were DLC), something like that

Again, you're comparing apples with oranges.

Trying to think that Mileena is the Waluigi or that Fujin is the Banjo (which is probably the most accurate comparison on the list and even then it's still a stretch) is just... It feels like a forced, arbitrary thing because again, these characters were already in a previous MK, so they're not "new" like Waluigi or Isaac or Geno would be.

Thats what I heard a lot of people say about Minecraft

Mortal Kombat is both very niche AND banned from being sold in Japan, so it's likely Sakurai and Nintendo Japan's higher-ups may not even know that it exists.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Mortal Kombat is both very niche AND banned from being sold in Japan, so it's likely Sakurai and Nintendo Japan's higher-ups may not even know that it exists.

Not banned, just not localized.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I do admit to at least wanting to see a Mortal Kombat spirit event just to see whom they would choose to represent various MK characters.

The image of the Ice Climbers paired with an image of Sub-Zero would make it worth it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I do admit to at least wanting to see a Mortal Kombat spirit event just to see whom they would choose to represent various MK characters.

The image of the Ice Climbers paired with an image of Sub-Zero would make it worth it.

Incineroar as Scorpion because he's the closest thing we can get to a fire user with a "GET OVER HERE!" move

 

[Schnee117]

I do admit to at least wanting to see a Mortal Kombat spirit event just to see whom they would choose to represent various MK characters.

The image of the Ice Climbers paired with an image of Sub-Zero would make it worth it.

Let's go King Dedede as Shao Kahn

 

[7NATOR]

Yeah the MK and Smash Comparison is probably not the most accurate. I guess it's because The whole thing with Mileena Getting in reminds me of how There's this whole Saga with Waluigi getting into Smash, right down to all the harassing the Developers Point (even though only 2 Waluigi fans sent them 9/11 memes and junk). It reminds me of the Mileena Saga, except Waluigi isn't actually Playable yet.

Also for a MK Mii Costume, they could call the Costume "Ninja", Since that's the term that's referred to all the Ninjas in Mortal Kombat, even if Scorpion is the only Real Ninja in Mortal Kombat

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Let's go King Dedede as Shao Kahn

The only spirit fight where the foe frequently crouches, because that's Dedede's best taunt and Shao Khan needs to taunt to be accurate

 

[SpectreJordan]

Again, you're comparing apples with oranges.

Trying to think that Mileena is the Waluigi or that Fujin is the Banjo (which is probably the most accurate comparison on the list and even then it's still a stretch) is just... It feels like a forced, arbitrary thing because again, these characters were already in a previous MK, so they're not "new" like Waluigi or Isaac or Geno would be.


Mortal Kombat is both very niche AND banned from being sold in Japan, so it's likely Sakurai and Nintendo Japan's higher-ups may not even know that it exists.

Sakurai is incredibly well versed in gaming, he 100% knows what Mortal Kombat is.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I updated the list so it's more accurate. I removed all the characters that are Fighters, assist trophies/pokeball summons or full Mii costumes. Characters who are spirits are left on the board because of Min Min. You can thank me later.

I pick:
Sora (5)
Decidueye (5)
Crash Bandicoot (4)
The lobster thing down in the bottom right corner (1)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sakurai is incredibly well versed in gaming, he 100% knows what Mortal Kombat is.

Doesn't matter when Nintendo is the one making the suggestions.

If higher-ups at Nintendo Japan don't know MK, then it'll never get considered.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I wish for one day that Sakurai and Ed Boon meets in person. I wanna see whose the true troll king of gaming.

 

[SharkLord]

Personally, I evaluate franchises that are more popular in one region than the other based on how much they're trying to break into the other region. If they're recently beginning to expand, like with Touhou on Steam (Though not officially translated, ZUN actually recommends you use the fan translation. Honest question, has there been any other creator that does that?), I'll give them a chance. If the most recent installments aren't released in Japan/The West, I'd say that's a major roadblock.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I wish for one day that Sakurai and Ed Boon meets in person. I wanna see whose the true troll king of gaming.

It's absolutely gonna be Ed Boon because he's the only one between the two who has told lies in the past.

Still waiting for cyborgs in MK11 like he basically "promised"

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Mortal Kombat were to get a Spirit Board. Some I would imagine being.

Kintaro:
Liu Kang:
Reptile: (Green)
Shao Kahn: (Thoughcould fit the criteria as well)
Sindel:

Just to list a few.

 

[7NATOR]

Special Spirit Events seem to be released on Anniversaries of a Franchise, or when a New game comes out

In regards to Arle, when does Puyo Puyo 2 release, or when their Anniversary is?

 

[Deleted member]

Not banned, just not localized.

To add to that, despite what a lot of people here believe, Mortal Kombat isn't outright banned in Japan. The newer games never officially released in the region, so they're about as banned in Japan as DoA Xtreme 3 is in the West.

 

[Dinoman96]

Special Spirit Events seem to be released on Anniversaries of a Franchise, or when a New game comes out

In regards to Arle, when does Puyo Puyo 2 release, or when their Anniversary is?

The first Puyo Puyo came out this month, back in 1991.

oh dear

 

[7NATOR]

The first Puyo Puyo came out this month, back in 1991.

oh dear

Well if you Want Arle, you better hope the Week after Next week is not gonna kill her off then

Actually Speaking of which I have a theory, It's Called Spirit Board Deconfirm Theory....

-Pretty much, if a 3rd party Company gets a Spirit board for any Franchise, than that Company is Soft DeConfirmed for getting a fighter

Capcom got a Spirit Board Last Pass, and they didn't get a fighter last pass either

Considering that Square got TWO Spirit Boards, Square would be Soft Deconfirmed for this Pass

But I don't believe this Theory though, though I think I'm more wary of New Company getting new Spirit Board (Like Arc sSystem Works), and their chances of getting character

 

[Mushroomguy12]

View attachment 288861

I updated the list so it's more accurate. I removed all the characters that are Fighters, assist trophies/pokeball summons or full Mii costumes. Characters who are spirits are left on the board because of Min Min. You can thank me later.

I pick:
Sora (5)
Decidueye (5)
Crash Bandicoot (4)
The lobster thing down in the bottom right corner (1)

Sora (5)
Dixie Kong (3)
Impa (2)
Lloyd (2)
Elma (2)
Birdo (1)

 

[Guynamednelson]

Sakurai and Nintendo Japan's higher-ups may not even know that it exists.

They could at least know about 2, 3, and Trilogy.

 

[SKX31]

Honestly the talk about too many ball moves is kind of missing the point of Sonic. Curling up into a ball is his most reliable form of attacking, kind of like how Crash's most reliable form of attack is spinning but I digress.

In my mind, the Crash spin should be a normal attack because again it's his most reliable way of attacking. It'd act more like a "get off me" tool than a combo starter. It would work much like Megaman, Min Min and Steve's neutral and side tilt where you can attack while walking which would be faithful to the trilogy. The down tilt slide kick should be cancelled by jumping which would make him perform the Super jump. Down aerial would be his body slam but it wouldn't act like a stall n' fall, he would rise a few inches then gradually fall much like in the trilogy.

For his specials, I'd set up so Crash would use all the Power ups he would unlock in Warped (Minus the Crash Dash)
Neutral Special has to be Fruit Bazooka so the special button can be held down to control the crosshair and then let go to fire a Wumpa Fruit, It also makes it pretty faithful to the trilogy.
Side Special would be the Death Tornado spin as it is usually used to extend Crash's air time to perform trickier jumps. I know this would lead to the same complaints about Sonic and it's not exactly faithful to the trilogy but it fits well for what it's used for.
Down Special is the Super Charged Body Slam which would be a regular stall n' fall.

But yeah that's how I'd imagine Crash Bandicoot would work.

The "too many ball moves" criticism comes mostly from two different camps: A) those with a gameplay perspective (me included) - a lot of Sonics (especially online) play campy Sonics. The campy Sonic playstyle rely on Side B or Down B, frequently fake out approaches and when he actually comes close he'll try to Cherry Tap damage or KOs on the opponent. It becomes extra aggravating in two scenarios 1) when the camper's a stock ahead, or 2) in Quickplay, when the camper comes back and forces Sudden Death. I'd go so far to say that the campy Sonic contributed heavily to the #FixUltimateOnline uproar, since Ultimate's bad online leaves much less time for the opponent to react to Side B or Down B.

The other camp is the one that wishes that Sonic had a more original / true-to-the-text moveset. There's a lot of attacks Sonic could use - the Insta-Shield jump from Sonic 3, Light Speed Dash from the Adventure games or the Boost etc. And some people want Sonic changed for both reasons listed.

As for my opinion: By changing Side B into something else, he could still have curling up into a ball could as his main ground attack while also discouraging the campy Sonic.

As for Crash, yeah that could work. Crash wouldn't exactly have that same problem since the Spin is more comittal than Spin Dashes are. Would the Death Tornado spin slow down after a while? If so that could make it a different enough from the regular Spin (aside from adding lets say a different visual cue to the Death Tornado so it is clearly visible what he's using).

As for other stuff, I'm kinda thinking that he should be able to turn quickly after Slide Jumping. I'm saying comittal for the first frame of a Slide Jump since the Slide's rather quick in the Crash games to begin with - the very act of Slide Jumping is kind of comittal due to the momentum. It's certainly quicker than Cloud's and Joker's slides.

As for the weakness of the Slide, well, it could be really unsafe on shield (as well as several of Crash's aerials) and have some endlag to it. Whenever Cloud's D-Tilt hits a shield and doesn't send the opponent flying, I'm like "Aaah ****".

Slide Jumping would allow for momentum into his double jump (assuming the Slide Jump retains the double jump) and it would allow the Crash player to follow up a Slide Attack -> Slide Jump -> Aerial or Death Tornado. Crash would mostly be focused on knockback (especially the Spin) so if he has at least one do-able combo it helps him vary his offense. If one really labs Crash he'd benefit heavily IDJ (Instant Double Jump, tech that allows aerials to come out quicker) and extending the chain I mentioned above further before ending it with Death Tornado or Bazooka.

, so it's likely Sakurai and Nintendo Japan's higher-ups may not even know that it exists.

I kinda doubt that - not just due to 2, 3 and Trilogy, but Mortal Kombat is also one of the main indirect reasons the ESRB was formed (together with Night Trap). Nintendo's higher ups would not forget the congressional hearings in America - especially not when CERO was created in 2002 and used the ESRB as a model.

Edit: GTA III did lead to CERO introducing the Z rating after a similar bout of controversy.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai's Birdo themed Pic of the Day commemorating Super Mario Bros 2 (called Super Mario USA in Japan)'s release anniversary.

1988年のきょう『スーパーマリオUSA』日本で発売。元となる『夢工場ドキドキパニック』は前年の夏。 pic.twitter.com/kkhp6n10Ul

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 9, 2020

 

[Blargg888]

I feel like the bigger clue is the 6 characters that are already IN Ultimate.

Banjo, Incineroar, Steve, Ken, and Hero I see, but who is the sixth character you're talking about?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Banjo, Incineroar, Steve, Ken, and Hero I see, but who is the sixth character you're talking about?

Isabelle.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sakurai's Birdo themed Pic of the Day commemorating Super Mario Bros 2 (called Super Mario USA in Japan)'s release anniversary.

1988年のきょう『スーパーマリオUSA』日本で発売。元となる『夢工場ドキドキパニック』は前年の夏。 pic.twitter.com/kkhp6n10Ul

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 9, 2020

Damn he is just straight-up decapitating birdo

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well if you Want Arle, you better hope the Week after Next week is not gonna kill her off then

Actually Speaking of which I have a theory, It's Called Spirit Board Deconfirm Theory....

-Pretty much, if a 3rd party Company gets a Spirit board for any Franchise, than that Company is Soft DeConfirmed for getting a fighter

Capcom got a Spirit Board Last Pass, and they didn't get a fighter last pass either

Considering that Square got TWO Spirit Boards, Square would be Soft Deconfirmed for this Pass

But I don't believe this Theory though, though I think I'm more wary of New Company getting new Spirit Board (Like Arc sSystem Works), and their chances of getting character

I think only the franchise should be deconfirmed because trying to shut down an entire company for one franchise is ridiculous.

Like, saying ALL of Capcom's countless IPs are out because one of them gets a Spirit Event is just gatekeeping taken to an insane extreme.

Also, why even come up with a theory you yourself don't believe in?

They could at least know about 2, 3, and Trilogy.

I kinda doubt that - not just due to 2, 3 and Trilogy, but Mortal Kombat is also one of the main indirect reasons the ESRB was formed (together with Night Trap). Nintendo's higher ups would not forget the congressional hearings in America - especially not when CERO was created in 2002 and used the ESRB as a model.

You know what? Those are fair points.

But if all the Nintendo higher-ups remember is the controversy.... that doesn't help a MK character's chances.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly I think its entirely likely many in Nintendo of Japan are well familiar with MK, especially given that MK11 ended up on Switch.

I just think they're likely indifferent to it overall outside that latter game.

 

[7NATOR]

Honestly I think its entirely likely many in Nintendo of Japan are well familiar with MK, especially given that MK11 ended up on Switch.

I just think they're likely indifferent to it overall outside that latter game.

That's the Crazy thing though, MK11 isn't even on the Switch in Japan. I mean perhaps there were talks with NOJ, but I imagine most of the talks were with NOA

 

[helloiamhere]

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

its been a year since this tweet. what if harada actually wasn't lying and got these guys blocked from smash

 

[Dinoman96]

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

its been a year since this tweet. what if harada actually wasn't lying and got these guys blocked from smash

I kinda thought about that. I don't know if it means anything, but it might be some food for thought.

See to me, it's not really him personally blocking these characters, it's more of an NDA kinda thing. Like he knew for certain that Nintendo wasn't putting in Master Chief, Crash, Arle, etc for FP1 or FP2 so he decided to rip the band-aid off and namedrop them here.

I don't think this really deconfirms anyone. But it is kinda interesting that we've gotten three characters since this tweet (Byleth, Min Min and Steve) and none of them faced the wrath of Harada in this tweet.

 

[7NATOR]

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

its been a year since this tweet. what if harada actually wasn't lying and got these guys blocked from smash

that would be Crazy

But honestly, One of things I notice is that none of these characters have showed up at all in game. One thing I will say is that I believe Heihachi supporters was actually among the People Spamming Harada or was tagged among the post, and I think there were other characters as well, however considering Harada Loves Heihchi, he didn't mention him. however Heihachi showed up as Mii

One crazy theory i could see is that Maybe Harada knows who will and Won't take part in FP2, and perhaps he only mentioned these characters cause Somehow he knows they won't be apart of the Pass. It is October so it should be close to Finalization (if not already Finalized). and all the characters mention I could see being Completely absent from Smash in all form, except for Arle though.

If this theory is correct, it's still possible for the characters to show up, but they can't be Playable. Perhaps depending on when Mii Costumes are Negotatied for, they could be Mii's for Later Packs like FP10 and FP11

 

[Evil Trapezium]

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

its been a year since this tweet. what if harada actually wasn't lying and got these guys blocked from smash

Harada: Sakurai! These kids on the internet are spamming me!
(Sakurai looks in disgust)
Sakurai: The deal is off Nomura San! No more Sora for Smash!

 

[Nemuresu]

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

its been a year since this tweet. what if harada actually wasn't lying and got these guys blocked from smash

I've never taken this as anything more than just Harada trolling with news sites taking it as a chance to get tons of clicks by making it look like a controversy. Harada wasn't involve in Smash in any capacity. Does anyone here really think he'll go his way to force Nintendo to stop working on characters that have been in development for a year or so?

 

[Cosmic77]

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

its been a year since this tweet. what if harada actually wasn't lying and got these guys blocked from smash

I doubt he alone is actually responsible for any of these characters not getting in. Actually, I'd be surprised if he had any follow-through.

These are only a few of the hundreds and hundreds of third-parties Sakurai and/or Nintendo could choose. I don't think it means anything if none of these franchises end up represented in Smash in some capacity.

 

[cashregister9]

Y'all are looking to deeply into that Harada Tweet.

Multiple smash fan accounts were spamming Harada, he blocked them and due to how easy it is to rile up smash fans that is why that tweet exists. It's as simple as that.

Does Harada have Smash info? Maybe, probably not. If he did I'm pretty sure it did not play out like:
Harada: "I'm getting spammed"
Sakurai: calls Sega "We are Removing Puyo Puyo from Smash"

 

[SNEKeater]

I kinda thought about that. I don't know if it means anything, but it might be some food for thought.

See to me, it's not really him personally blocking these characters, it's more of an NDA kinda thing. Like he knew for certain that Nintendo wasn't putting in Master Chief, Crash, Arle, etc for FP1 or FP2 so he decided to rip the band-aid off and namedrop them here.

I don't think this really deconfirms anyone. But it is kinda interesting that we've gotten three characters since this tweet (Byleth, Min Min and Steve) and none of them faced the wrath of Harada in this tweet.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't know why Harada would know. I know he has an important position in Bandai Namco, but negotiations with other 3rd party companies are done, as far as we know, between Sakurai/Nintendo and said 3rd party. It's not like Harada or some higher ups at Namco are involved. At least, that's something we don't know.

Harada pretty much likes to troll people. I'm sure he was irritated for real because there are some noisy spammers when it comes to support accounts for Smash, but the part about "I'm gonna tell Sakurai to not put these characters" is plain trolling. I mean, he doesn't decide who gets in and who doesn't. Like, I doubt Sakurai and Nintendo would be like "damn we wanted Crash in Smash but unfortunately we will have to cancel that because of Harada's tweet".

I get the point about "Harada knew about who's in Pass 2 and for that reason he only mentioned fan accounts of characters that he knows aren't DLC" but that's assuming he knows all the characters, which I really doubt. Maybe he would have mentioned other fan accounts, but he just talked about the ones who were actually spamming on his tweets.