Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I still think Scorpion would be the one chosen.

I think so too, but if Boon was approached for Sub-Zero, I very much doubt he would say "No Scorpion? No deal."

 

[SKX31]

(Of course, this trend is starting to change in more recent years. Putting Minecraft aside, games like Fortnite are also very popular in Japan - as very much annoyed I would be with... Jonesy, for example, the only real argument you can make against him that's not some variation "cringe" or "he's not really talked about that much" or "zero leaks" is that he's too recent or something like that. You cannot convince me that an army of 10 yr olds will not come descending on Jonesy to default dance on their friends in Smash.)

Do you have number to back up on Fortnite in Japan? I'm just curious.

Well, Fortnite did get out-competed in Japan by Knives Out:

The biggest name in gaming last year may have been Fortnite from Epic Games, but when it came to mobile titles in the burgeoning battle royale genre, none was more flush with cash than Knives Out. Published by China’s NetEase, the title grossed an estimated $465 million worldwide in 2018—more than Fortnite’s $455 million sum—according to Sensor Tower’s Store Intelligence data, despite the fact that most mobile gamers in the United States probably haven’t heard of it.

That’s because the game generated less than 1 percent of its 2018 revenue from U.S. mobile gamers. Players in Japan, on the other hand, are very familiar with the title—and it’s the country’s most popular battle royale game on mobile. How popular? Nearly 80 percent of Knives Out’s revenue last year came from Japan, where players spent an estimated $370 in the game across the App Store and Google Play.

To put this into perspective within the genre, this figure is more than 11 times greater than what the country’s mobile gamers spent in PUBG Mobile on both platforms during 2018. It’s so surprise, given this, that NetEase updated the game with a new Tokyo map in November—and its revenue has only been increasing since.

I've mentioned Knives Out quite a bit in the past - and while it's been ported to the Japanese Switch eShop (and seen a lot of success there). chances are that its hypotheoretical inclusion would be one of the most controversial possible:

• It's only really known in Japan, so a lot of Westerners / any others outside would pretty much respond with a giant "?" and ask "whyyy?".
• It's a mobile Fortnite / PUBG, and even though Knives Out apparently has some unique stuff like a bigger focus on vehicles it'd be hit by the "mobile clone" complaint.
• NetEase is the second biggest Chinese gaming company, about as big as Spotify (only behind Tencent, who's as big as Facebook). There's that angle too. Outside of geopolitical arguments, NetEase does have a history of being microtransaction-y (although it's not as disliked by the Chinese hardcore as Tencent IIRC).

Zhuge confirmed that Knives Out was the top-grossing iOS game in Japan as recently as May, helping NetEase catapult up the Japanese iOS charts.

Eedar published an in-depth article on why Knives Out outcompeted Fortnite in Japan back in 2018. Fortnite does have Japanese servers to be fair, so I don't believe it's completely out of the picture there. Not when Fortnite's been heavily promoted through MCU and Star Wars collabs. But I don't have reason to believe that Fortnite's huge there either.

Sub-Zero could bring some really cool mechanics though. Pun is 110% intended.


One of his klassics from the very first game is actually tame enough to work.

View attachment 288856

He's probably the only MK character who can get away with having a Fatality as a Final Smash, actually.

TBF one could edit Sub-Zero's headrip to be one where freezes the opponent, lifts up for a choke before slamming the victim down on the ground. Considering Snake has the neck-breaker down throw, it's not unfeasible.

But if MK gets a character, I'd also say Scorpion's the favorite, but Sub-Zero's not that far behind. I'm not completely sure if he'd work as an echo, but with some finagling (and adhering to the early days mainly) he could be perhaps.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm not completely sure if he'd work as an echo, but with some finagling (and adhering to the early days mainly) he could be perhaps.

I lol at the idea whenever people bring up the idea of Sub-Zero being an Echo of Scorpion. Despite similar heights and body structures, they both possess very different abilities with Scorpion being fire and Sub-Zero being ice. Also, how would Sub-Zero copy Scorpion's signature spear move which would obviously be his Neutral B and obviously having very different Final Smashes (I imagine Scorpion's Final Smash being his Toasty! fatality where he removes his mask and sets the entire stage on fire heavily damaging players).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm not completely sure if he'd work as an echo, but with some finagling (and adhering to the early days mainly) he could be perhaps.

"adhering to the early days"

You mean back when everyone had the exact same normals, but completely unique specials? That probably wouldn't be clone enough to qualify as an Echo.

 

[7NATOR]

"adhering to the early days"

You mean back when everyone had the exact same normals, but completely unique specials? That probably wouldn't be clone enough to qualify as an Echo.

They could perhaps just Classfiy Sub-Zero as an echo, even if he's really not.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They could perhaps just Classfiy Sub-Zero as an echo, even if he's really not.

That makes absolutely no sense...

"But what about Ken?"

Ken at least has the novelty of being the first fighting game clone ever, so being classified as an Echo Fighter is technically not wrong.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Sub-Zero and Scorpion will never get in thanks to the CERO Ban.

 

[SKX31]

I lol at the idea whenever people bring up the idea of Sub-Zero being an Echo of Scorpion. Despite similar heights and body structures, they both possess very different abilities with Scorpion being fire and Sub-Zero being ice. Also, how would Sub-Zero copy Scorpion's signature spear move which would obviously be his Neutral B and obviously having very different Final Smashes (I imagine Scorpion's Final Smash being his Toasty! fatality where he removes his mask and sets the entire stage on fire heavily damaging players).

That's what got me - although it wouldn't be too difficult to change the spear into an ice projectile from a coding perspective.

Still, it's the kind of thing that would only be done if Sakurai / Boon both came to the conclusion that that would be a more efficient way to incorporate both characters for very little cost. Not going to say that that scenario's likely.

And I will freely admit that I've personally leaned the echo idea is partly since I'd personally kinda be wanting it from the hype that the "SF vs. MK" matchup would generate. No matter how likely or feasible it is (lets face it, it's not either).

"adhering to the early days"

You mean back when everyone had the exact same normals, but completely unique specials? That probably wouldn't be clone enough to qualify as an Echo.

Exactly what I'm thinking of yeah - Ken does have two unique normal attacks to himself (and those two are a major reason he's more combo-focused than Ryu, since Ken can chain much longer strings). And I was thinking from the angle of "Ryu / Ken work mostly how they did in the SF2 days".

I'm admitting myself that this is stretching it (and this is being generous), and in the end, it likely won't happen.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sub-Zero and Scorpion will never get in thanks to the CERO Ban.

But it's fun to speculate about stuff like that nonetheless.

It's at least better than having an endless loop of Geno and the gaming reveal of the week all the goddamn time.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Something I think is worth noting is that Lloyd still seems to get the bulk of the Smash requests. While we have gotten less-requested characters over more popular requests, like Joker, I think it holds a bit more weight when we narrow it down to a specific series. Back when we got Cloud, it was stated that he took up more than a third of the Final Fantasy requests, and that FF7 is still the most popular despite not being on a Nintendo system at that time.
In addition, Japanese fans observed that Cloud seemed to appeal more to overseas fans. It's also not like we haven't had more Western-appeal characters before, like Little Mac, Ridley, and the Belmonts. In fact, quite a few Japanese fans wished we had gotten Bomberman over the Belmonts instead. I don't think we should count out Western audiences entirely.

But it's fun to speculate about stuff like that nonetheless.

It's at least better than having an endless loop of Geno and the gaming reveal of the week all the goddamn time.

This exactly! Speculation loops is why I hate Geno.

 

[7NATOR]

I need to ask

1. Do you guys think that with FP1, they were limited to Developing Only 5 characters, or do you think they could have done more?

2. Same with FP2, Do you think we could have gotten More than 6 Characters, or was 6 the Limit?

3. Do you think FP2 was Planned to have 5 Characters, but a 6th one was Added? if so, What do you think is Special about this 6th Character?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Sub-Zero and Scorpion will never get in thanks to the CERO Ban.

Either that, or Sakurai could feel like he couldn't do the series justice without the over-the-top violence. I'm not saying he COULDN'T do it, but it is something to consider...

 

[Pinguino21v]

Yeah, let's be honest, Mortal Kombat will never happen in Smash.

 

[Faso115]

I need to ask

1. Do you guys think that with FP1, they were limited to Developing Only 5 characters, or do you think they could have done more?

2. Same with FP2, Do you think we could have gotten More than 6 Characters, or was 6 the Limit?

3. Do you think FP2 was Planned to have 5 Characters, but a 6th one was Added? if so, What do you think is Special about this 6th Character?

I believe considering how much details goes into every fighter and the attempt at making them fun and somewhat viable for competitive takes quite a lot of time to get a character done, so 5 characters seems doable for DLC. Then there is also the fact those tend to be big third party names for the most part, which requires licensing, which requires a lot of negotiation and money.

And i really wouldn't put too much stock on FP2 having 6 characters. I think they added one more slot to spark interest. I don't really believe in last minute changes. Trust me, those never really turn up good glances at Sonic

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Didn't the anime get two games on the GBA?

Yeah it did

but it’s I guess a separate timeline from the original/X/GX

 

[7NATOR]

I believe considering how much details goes into every fighter and the attempt at making them fun and somewhat viable for competitive takes quite a lot of time to get a character done, so 5 characters seems doable for DLC. Then there is also the fact those tend to be big third party names for the most part, which requires licensing, which requires a lot of negotiation and money.

And i really wouldn't put too much stock on FP2 having 6 characters. I think they added one more slot to spark interest. I don't really believe in last minute changes. Trust me, those never really turn up good glances at Sonic

I Didn't think the 6th character would be added at the last Minute. I do find it interesting that We are getting 1 More character than Last Pass, considering that alot of the time, as DLC goes on we get less Content, unless the Content is heavily Re-used Assets, along with the concept of Diminishing Returns.

Even if Plant counts towards FP1 as like a Bonus character, he never Came with a stage or nothing.

The reason I also ask was because there are more Leftover slots than Fighters will we get. There be 4 Leftover Slots after FP2 is Finished. It makes me wonder if Nintendo was willing to Allow more characters than we are getting. It could also just be extra Leeway and such, but I Don't know

 

[Evil Trapezium]

That might actually be a good start, even if the normal Spin and and Death Tornado risks running into a similar problem as (too many ball moves) and thus might be difficult to tell apart. Maybe one solution is to have the Spin transition to the Death Tornado after a little while. Slide Kick's easily a D-tilt a la Cloud / Joker (used to trip up opponent and send them away) and the Bazooka can be mapped to Side or Down B (Presuming Spin is Neutral B). The Body Slam might be a down air, but I'm tired of stall n' falls (I find it telling that those who benefit the most from them are zoners, Greninja - who can bounce off his down-air, and likely Steve) so making the Slam different in some way. Bigger shockwave than Bowser's at the expense of raw power? Crash would have a wider hurtbox than most stall n' falls (unless he completely pancakes), so that's why I'm thinking that.

He'd lack an Up-B (which might not be 100 % neccessary given how much height Crash typically gets, but might be worth considering) and he would likely need a grab. He'd also likely need one or a couple anti-air options (either Up Tilt or Up Smash tends to fill this niche, although Nair and U-Air can do the job too). Crash would likely have good, fast attacks out of shield, but also struggle a bit with endlag.

His stats would most likely be fine: he's got good air speed and acceleration already - just like how Crash's jumps are quick and responsive - but he'd most likely be a fast-faller, thus making him susceptible to combos (floaty characters have a similiar but unrelated problem in that they're vurnerable to juggling - being kept constantly in the air - mentioning this since if Crash was floaty he'd run into this.). His run would be much more comittal even if he can turn on a dime, meaning that for Crash it'd be important to know when to go in and when to kick back.

Honestly the talk about too many ball moves is kind of missing the point of Sonic. Curling up into a ball is his most reliable form of attacking, kind of like how Crash's most reliable form of attack is spinning but I digress.

In my mind, the Crash spin should be a normal attack because again it's his most reliable way of attacking. It'd act more like a "get off me" tool than a combo starter. It would work much like Megaman, Min Min and Steve's neutral and side tilt where you can attack while walking which would be faithful to the trilogy. The down tilt slide kick should be cancelled by jumping which would make him perform the Super jump. Down aerial would be his body slam but it wouldn't act like a stall n' fall, he would rise a few inches then gradually fall much like in the trilogy.

For his specials, I'd set up so Crash would use all the Power ups he would unlock in Warped (Minus the Crash Dash)
Neutral Special has to be Fruit Bazooka so the special button can be held down to control the crosshair and then let go to fire a Wumpa Fruit, It also makes it pretty faithful to the trilogy.
Side Special would be the Death Tornado spin as it is usually used to extend Crash's air time to perform trickier jumps. I know this would lead to the same complaints about Sonic and it's not exactly faithful to the trilogy but it fits well for what it's used for.
Down Special is the Super Charged Body Slam which would be a regular stall n' fall.

But yeah that's how I'd imagine Crash Bandicoot would work.

 

[7NATOR]

Also I Just realized

Is Mortal Kombat 11 bringing Mileena Back the Equivalent of Waluigi Finally Becoming Playable in Smash? also who's Rain's Equivalent, considering he was also a Requested character to Come back

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Yeah, let's be honest, Mortal Kombat will never happen in Smash.

I still think Mortal kombat could happen as a mii costume. It would be a great way to represent the franchise without dealing with violence and censorship. The classic ninja costume is clearly iconic enough to be easily recognisable even as a mii. Perhaps they could put different colors like they did with Bomberman so it would be an easy way to represent every classic Ninja (scorpion, sub zero, Rain, Ermac, Smoke, Noob, Tremor and Reptile). Also we had mii costumes in the past that appeal way more to a Western market like the Assassin's creed costume.

 

[kirbsmash]

Is it odd that, as a MK fan, I don't bat a eye on Rambo being in MK11? I mean, we got movie characters per games now.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Also I Just realized

Is Mortal Kombat 11 bringing Mileena Back the Equivalent of Waluigi Finally Becoming Playable in Smash? also who's Rain's Equivalent, considering he was also a Requested character to Come back

Both Mileena and Rain are veterans, so you can't compare their return in a MK to a newcomer in Smash.

They're more like Wolf in that aspect; a character who got a lot of requests to make a return due to being a fan favorite.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

if you want to play tales game, Tales of Vesperia has a complete edition out on xbox 1 and ps4. both are cheap on amazon.

And it's also on Switch and PC.

 

[7NATOR]

Both Mileena and Rain are veterans, so you can't compare their return in a MK to a newcomer in Smash.

They're more like Wolf in that aspect; a character who got a lot of requests to make a return due to being a fan favorite.

I get they are veterans, But Since Wolf and the Rest of the Veterans are already in the game, I thought as of now, That Mileena being Playable in MK11 (Finally) could be the Equivalent of Waluigi finally being Playable in Ultimate, Especially since it seemed like Mileena was not Planned to be in the game (with the Kitana Variation using her Sai, among other things) which would be the Same thing with Waluigi

Also, Perhaps because Rain's return is Somewhat (not that much though) overshadowed by Mileena Returning, that could be the equivalent of Shadow the Hedgehog being Playable in Smash

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I get they are veterans, But Since Wolf and the Rest of the Veterans are already in the game, I thought as of now, That Mileena being Playable in MK11 (Finally) could be the Equivalent of Waluigi finally being Playable in Ultimate, Especially since it seemed like Mileena was not Planned to be in the game (with the Kitana Variation using her Sai, among other things) which would be the Same thing with Waluigi

Also, Perhaps because Rain's return is Somewhat (not that much though) overshadowed by Mileena Returning, that could be the equivalent of Shadow the Hedgehog being Playable in Smash

Mileena was in MKX, so it still doesn't make any sense to compare her to freaking Waluigi in Smash.

And Rain was overshadowing her because he was requested since Boon lied about him being in MKX, iirc, so it's been a long time coming.

Again, this isn't comparable to a Smash newcomer in any way.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Also we had mii costumes in the past that appeal way more to a Western market like the Assassin's creed costume.

The AC character chosen being Altair is actually meant to appeal to Japanese players.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Is it odd that, as a MK fan, I don't bat a eye on Rambo being in MK11? I mean, we got movie characters per games now.

My problem with Rambo is that we already have Terminator, Robocop and Spawn who focus on gun (with other characters like Cassie also using guns). The problem with guns is that unlike, for example, a sword... There's really only one way to use a gun. I personally don't think Rambo will be really fun to play as or against but I guess we'll see.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I know some people here like Maximilian Dood so here's 40 minutes of him speculating about the 4 characters left.

He's got a few interesting insights.

I died at "Ori has a sword in the sequel, so that immediately increases his chances!".

Yes, I know that was said in jest, I just found it to be funny.

Eh, I dunno, I like Max and I think some of his points are interesting (like the Activision and Disney ones) but I also think he's laser-focused on MonHun as a Capcom rep and Isn't really considering a lot of choices, mostly because he'd rather have them in Tekken/Soulcalibur/whatever.

 

[Perkilator]

I still think Mortal kombat could happen as a mii costume. It would be a great way to represent the franchise without dealing with violence and censorship. The classic ninja costume is clearly iconic enough to be easily recognisable even as a mii. Perhaps they could put different colors like they did with Bomberman so it would be an easy way to represent every classic Ninja (scorpion, sub zero, Rain, Ermac, Smoke, Noob, Tremor and Reptile). Also we had mii costumes in the past that appeal way more to a Western market like the Assassin's creed costume.

Only problem is, it's gonna be labeled as "Scorpion" in the US version of the Mii Costume reel, because the ESRB are kinda petty.

 

[Goombaic]

Also I Just realized

Is Mortal Kombat 11 bringing Mileena Back the Equivalent of Waluigi Finally Becoming Playable in Smash? also who's Rain's Equivalent, considering he was also a Requested character to Come back

Just because people harassed Boon into getting Mileena in MK11 doesn't mean you can harass Sakurai into putting in Waluigi.

 

[Guynamednelson]

My problem with Rambo is that we already have Terminator, Robocop and Spawn who focus on gun (with other characters like Cassie also using guns). The problem with guns is that unlike, for example, a sword... There's really only one way to use a gun. I personally don't think Rambo will be really fun to play as or against but I guess we'll see.

"Too many gunslingers, are there? And you, you wield the gun as well? What will you do?"

 

[Faso115]

Steve is our first Pixelated Swordfighter.

 

[7NATOR]

Mileena was in MKX, so it still doesn't make any sense to compare her to freaking Waluigi in Smash.

And Rain was overshadowing her because he was requested since Boon lied about him being in MKX, iirc, so it's been a long time coming.

Again, this isn't comparable to a Smash newcomer in any way.

Rain was Overshadowing her? I thought it was the other way around, since I see more Mileena talk than Rain, and not because Rain isn't hype, but just because Mileena was getting So Much pushback, that there's the whole thing about the Mileena Stans, and how Boon finally caved in

I get Mileena was in MKX, and I know the Contexts of Smash and MK are different, but here's how I Look at it

Like Waluigi, Mileena Got Major Pushback for not being in MK11, and like Waluigi, it seemed like she wasn't meant to be Playable at least from the start.

And as for Rain, There was also Sadness in him not being Playable, like how People are Sad that characters like Isaac and Shadow aren't Playable yet, and Rain was used as a Move for Shang so it seemed like he might not have been Planned to be Playable

That's why I'm comparing the characters. as for Furhter Comparisons, Noob, Jade, among other Popular veterans that returned would probably be the K.Rool of the game, Fujin is the Banjo of the Game, Spawn is the Ridley of the game (if he were DLC), something like that

Just because people harassed Boon into getting Mileena in MK11 doesn't mean you can harass Sakurai into putting in Waluigi.

Trust Me I won't, I don't want Waluigi that Much (though I think he could be cool), and I would 1000x Prefer Shadow got upgraded over Waluigi

 

[Schnee117]

My problem with Rambo is that we already have Terminator, Robocop and Spawn who focus on gun (with other characters like Cassie also using guns). The problem with guns is that unlike, for example, a sword... There's really only one way to use a gun. I personally don't think Rambo will be really fun to play as or against but I guess we'll see.

Spawn doesn't focus on guns outside of his one competitive variation or Fatal Blow though.
And NRS poked fun at the notion Rambo will focus on guns.

 

[kirbsmash]

And NRS poked fun at the notion Rambo will focus on guns.

Maybe it's just me, but another action movie character seems a bit overdone in my eyes. I want more out there characters like the Joker I have no problems with him as a whole though. Getting back to Smash, what alts you want your most wanted to have?

 

[SNEKeater]

I died at "Ori has a sword in the sequel, so that immediately increases his chances!".

Yes, I know that was said in jest, I just found it to be funny.

Eh, I dunno, I like Max and I think some of his points are interesting (like the Activision and Disney ones) but I also think he's laser-focused on MonHun as a Capcom rep and Isn't really considering a lot of choices, mostly because he'd rather have them in Tekken/Soulcalibur/whatever.

To be fair he isn't into Smash speculation. Or at least not that much. So a new Monster Hunter game exclusively for Switch will change a lot of people's perception.

And him being as interested or more invested in other fighting games leads to answers like "I'd rather have Tifa in Tekken" or "Kiryu would fit better in Virtua Fighter". You don't see us here saying things like that as counterpoints for certain characters. Not to mention, appearing in one fighting game as a guest doesn't mean you can't appear in another one. Look at Terry.

 

[3BitSaurus]

To be fair he isn't into Smash speculation. Or at least not that much. So a new Monster Hunter game exclusively for Switch will change a lot of people's perception.

And him being as interested or more invested in other fighting games leads to answers like "I'd rather have Tifa in Tekken" or "Kiryu would fit better in Virtua Fighter". You don't see us here saying things like that as counterpoints for certain characters. Not to mention, appearing in one fighting game as a guest doesn't mean you can't appear in another one. Look at Terry.

I mean, yeah. My reaction to most of the times Max said that was "why not both"?

 

[latsmash]

You can tell this is old with Decidueye lmao.

Crash (4)
Tails (3)
Hunter (2)
Earthworm Jim (1)
Sora (5)

A combination of iconic series and fun to play characters.

 

[PeridotGX]

Only problem is, it's gonna be labeled as "Scorpion" in the US version of the Mii Costume reel, because the ESRB are kinda petty.

If there's a Doomguy Mii Costume, what would they do? Doomguy, Doom Soldier, Doom Marine, they all have Doom in the name. Would they just call him "guy"?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If there's a Doomguy Mii Costume, what would they do? Doomguy, Doom Soldier, Doom Marine, they all have Doom in the name. Would they just call him "guy"?

In light of not wanting to mention the name of the M rated game Doom Guy will officially be introduced in America as



Super Smash Bros x Commander Keen's Son

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Eh, guess I'll join.

(5): Geno
(4): Crash Bandicoot
(3): Dixie Kong (This one is for the fans)
(2): Elma
(1): Viridi (Closest I'll get to Medusa)