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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Lionfranky

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That's not a likely idea, especially considering that Smash isn't only popular in Japan.
Isn't sales in Japan like 3.8 million? Western sales surely dwarf that number, so I don't know why they have to worry so much about Japanese interest when it comes to western characters. Why worry about smaller fanbase, but not fot western one? Why not teach Japanese fanbase about certain western franchise?
 

ShrimpScampi

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Jumping on the female characters bandwagon too. These are characters I think would be neat, not necessarily the ones that I think are likely (tbh I thought 2B was pretty likely, but I'm unsure what to think now after hearing about when Sakurai first met Yoko Taro -- I don't think it's necessarily a hard deconfirm, but it probably hurts her chances)
2B (NieR Automata)
Estelle Bright (Trails in the Sky)
Shantae (Shantae)
Velvet Crowe (Tales of Berseria)
Milla Maxwell (Tales of Xillia)
Sophie (Tales of Graces)
Hat Kid (A Hat in Time)
Alicia Melchiott (Valkyria Chronicles)
Filia (Skullgirls)
Aigis (Persona 3)
Iji (Iji) <- absolutely NEVER gonna happen, but this one's purely for the soundtrack lol

also plz bring back the Jill/Drill Dozer assist trophy, I love that game
 

N3ON

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i feel like the fact that they added 3 classic dq characters through skins instead of just luminary is more than enough to dispel Hero Is Just A Promo Pick bs
I don't think the character was included for promotional reasons, but the fact that the most popular/seminal version(s) of Hero play backseat to the most recent version may indicate that the default was made the default at the behest of a promotion-based agenda.

I mean there's already proof special promotional exception was paid to Hero, as substantiated by the site. To suggest it extends no further than that when there's evidence that it may seems like refusing to entertain valid possibilities.

Then again I see people on here who are loathed to admit any sort of promotion-based inclusion, to even give an inch more than necessary, as if the stigma of such a business-minded choice taints the sanctity of an otherwise infallible roster.
 
D

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Take it from one of the Dragon Quest fans, I can give little to no ****s that Dragon Quest 11 is the focus because of promotion. Not only is it a great game, but we also have content that spans across the entire series. This is like arguing how Joker isn't marketing Persona 5 and that he was included solely on Personas overall merits; of course he's promoting Persona 5. His trailer literally says Smash Bros x Persona 5.

Doesn't means it's bad, especially if he's paying respect to some of the other games in the series. It's not like Ryu and Cloud where they only paid attention to Street Fighter 2 and Final Fantasy 7 respectively.
 

Knight Dude

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Isn't sales in Japan like 3.8 million? Western sales surely dwarf that number, so I don't know why they have to worry so much about Japanese interest when it comes to western characters. Why worry about smaller fanbase, but not fot western one? Why not teach Japanese fanbase about certain western franchise?
Likely because the game is made in Japan with Japanese sensibilities and tastes in mind. I think it was mentioned they have a bit of a language barrier to overcome when dealing with Western companies, which can be tricky when getting everyone to properly convey their messages to one another.

However, I do think at the very least, we're seeing what are basically the baby steps into getting more western content in the game, obviously, Diddy, K.Rool and Dark Samus are made by westerners, from Rare and Retro specifically. But working with Grant Kirkhope, Microsoft and even Toby Fox shows strides of some kind are being made.

Whether this'll lead us to Crash or Lara Croft or whoever else, I got no idea. Yet another time will tell sort of deal.
 

Animegamingnerd

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Isn't sales in Japan like 3.8 million? Western sales surely dwarf that number, so I don't know why they have to worry so much about Japanese interest when it comes to western characters. Why worry about smaller fanbase, but not fot western one? Why not teach Japanese fanbase about certain western franchise?
There is a lot of reasons why we have gotten way more Japanese characters, then just sales.

Nintendo only owns two western studios being NST and Retro, Japanese third party support is overall much stronger then western third party support. Like Activsion and Ubisoft are barely on the platform and EA support is non-existent on Switch, Nintendo being a Japanese company is more likely to work with companies in their country and the team that made Smash Ultimate is far more likely to use characters they themselves are more familiar with.
 
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Cap'n Jack

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Female characters I want;

Jill Valentine
Joanna Dark
Impa
Dixie Kong
Gruntilda
Chun-Li
Elma
KOS-MOS
Snantae
 

Cosmic77

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Obviously Hero wasn't added strictly as a promotional character, but you'd have to be pretty oblivious to think SE didn't take advantage of the situation.
  • Wanted Luminary to be the face of the character, not Erdrick.
  • Chose to add the character as DLC rather than base game.
  • Made sure Hero was specifically promoted as a DQXIS character, not just a DQ character.
  • Worked with Nintendo to make a special Spirit that would be given to people who played the demo.
They did request that Sakurai add in other protagonists, but Luminary and DQXIS were prioritized. That's not a bad thing, and it's not something exclusive to DQ. FF and Persona did the same thing.
 

Iko MattOrr

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Most wanted female character for women's day?
My overall most wanted is already a female character, Adeleine & Ribbon (2 characters as one actually).

Aside of that, 3/5 of my top 5 most wanted are already female: Adeleine & Ribbon (Kirby), Captain Syrup (Warioland) and Hornet (Hollow Knight)

Other Female characters I like or wouldn't mind are (in random order):
-Jill & Drill Dozer (Drill Dozer)
-Pauline (Mario)
-Tetra (Zelda)
-Din (Zelda)
-Midna & Wolf Link (Zelda) - (ignore link being male)
-Blaze (Sonic)
-Amy (Sonic) - (but I admit it's mostly for the moveset, not a big fan of her as a character)
-Ashley (Wario Ware)
-Mona (Wario Ware)
-Susie (Kirby)
-Three Mage Sisters (Kirby)
-Meloetta (Pokèmon) - (technically genderless, but still)
-Lip (Panel de Pon)
-Marisa Kirisame (Touhou Project)
-Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)
-Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
-Parin (Gurumin)
-Load Ran (Twinkle Star Sprites)
-Miss Pac-Man (Pac-Man)
-Roll (Megaman)
-Roll.EXE (Megaman Battle Network)
-Nikki (Swapnote)
-Toadette (Mario) - (As an alt of Toad though, 4 Toads and 4 Toadettes)
-Arle (Puyo Puyo)
-Amitie (Puyo Puyo)

And probably more, I can't think of any for now.
 
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Animegamingnerd

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Obviously Hero wasn't added strictly as a promotional character, but you'd have to be pretty oblivious to think SE didn't take advantage of the situation.
  • Wanted Luminary to be the face of the character, not Erdrick.
  • Chose to add the character as DLC rather than base game.
  • Made sure Hero was specifically promoted as a DQXIS character, not just a DQ character.
  • Worked with Nintendo to make a special Spirit that would be given to people who played the demo.
They did request that Sakurai add in other protagonists, but Luminary and DQXIS were prioritized. That's not a bad thing, and it's not something exclusive to DQ. FF and Persona did the same thing.
Square was basically the only one of the 4 third parties to capitalize on their character getting into Smash now that I think about it.
 

Knight Dude

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Square was basically the only one of the 4 third parties to capitalize on their character getting into Smash now that I think about it.
SNK games on the E-Shop went on sale for a bit I think. But other than that, yeah, no much in the way of "shilling".

MS could have made bank if they allowed Banjo's N64 titles on the E-Shop.
 

Morning Raven

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Let's see, most wanted female characters. Slight ranking of want/ likely going down.

Shantae (Shantae)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
Amaterasu (Okami)
Chell (Portal)
Midna (Zelda)
Impa (Zelda)
Hilda (Zelda echo, even if her echo should be Vaati)
Blaze (Sonic)
Amy (Sonic)
Krystal (Star Fox)
Fiora (Xenoblade)
Hornet (Hollow Knight)
Hatsune Miku (Project Diva)
Ahri (League of Legends)
Irelia (league of legends)
Jill/Claire (Resident Evil)
Alex (Eternal Darkness)
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Female characters I'd like to see?

Rhythm Girl - Rhythm Heaven
Reporter - Rhythm Heaven
Elma - Xenoblade
Min Min - ARMS
Alex - Minecraft
Farmer - Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons
Arle Nadja - Puyo Puyo
Nakoruru - Samurai Shodown
Lara Croft - Tomb Raider
Chun-Li - Street Fighter
Cammy - Street Fighter
Jill - Resident Evil
2B - NieR
Blaze - Sonic
Kat - Gravity Rush
Impa - Zelda
Mona - Warioware
Ms. Pac-Man - Pac-Man

These are the first ones that come to mind. There's a lot more where that came from
 
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KillerCage

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There isn't a lot of female fighters I want in Smash.
The three that come to my mind are Arle, Shantae, and Lara Croft.
 

Strider_Bond00J

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Since It’s international Women’s day, who is your most wanted female character for Smash?
I'd probably say Reimu Hakurei. Runner-up would be Pyra/Mythra alongside Rex or 2B. But I suppose if I were to follow the trend and list my most wanted female characters for Ultimate:
1: Reimu Hakurei
2: Pyra/Mythra (I know they'd probably come with Rex but I'm listing them together here)
3: 2B
4: Dixie Kong
5: Krystal
6: Elma
7: KOS-MOS
8: Octolings
9: Arle Nadja
10: Lara Croft
Admittedly I haven't started NieR: Automata just yet, but oddly I still wanted 2B in SoulCalibur as a guest fighter, so I suppose I wouldn't object to her appearing in Smash Bros. Guess later tonight I'll have to make a proper start to NieR: Automata once I'm satisfied with finishing enough uni readings for the day.
Ah, I forgot to mention Shantae, so I'll list her as an honorable mention.
 
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SneakyLink

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I’ll do a top 10 woman I wish to see in Smash list too!
1. Shantae
2. Agitha
3. Volleyball Player
4. Mach Rider
5. Asha
6. Reimu
7. Carmen Sandiego
8. Joule Adams
9. Linkle
10. Patricia Wagon
 

wynn728

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That's not a likely idea, especially considering that Smash isn't only popular in Japan.
Sakurai's major goal when it comes to Smash Bros is to use it to promote Japanese games throughout the entire world. That's why characters like Rayman and Assassin's Creed get sideline in Smash, Rayman is super niche in Japan so they won't make him playable. If the Japanese audience aren't on board with the character then they won't be DLC since they're charging for them, only base game roster can have characters that don't appeal to the Japanese audience like Little Mac and Ridley.

Even with Nintendo choosing the DLC Sakurai's intent will taken into consideraction and pretty sure only NCL is deciding it with little impact from NoA & NoE.
 

Garteam

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Honestly, I don't think a character having their fanbase largely based in Japan or the West is necessarily a bad thing. If we could only have characters with a cosmopolitan popularity, we wouldn't have characters like Little Mac or Ridley because they don't have Japanese popularity. Likewise, we wouldn't have characters like Marth or Shulk because they're not popular internationally.

Having Smash take in requests from all around the world is actually great, as fanbases are able to exchange fan favourites with each other and gain interest in series they otherwise would've ignored. Smash Bros got Fire Emblem across the pacific and helped cement Xenoblade in the west. Likewise, it wouldn't surprise me if some Japanese fans picked up Metroid or Punch-Out because of Smash, even though those series are rather niche in Japan.
 

RileyXY1

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Another thing to note is that the Ballot was open to all video game characters, not just those who were created in Japan. I believe that Sakurai is aware of the requests for Western-made characters,
 
D

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Most wanted female character for women's day?
My overall most wanted is already a female character, Adeleine & Ribbon (2 characters as one actually).

Aside of that, 3/5 of my top 5 most wanted are already female: Adeleine & Ribbon (Kirby), Captain Syrup (Warioland) and Hornet (Hollow Knight)

Other Female characters I like or wouldn't mind are (in random order):
-Jill & Drill Dozer (Drill Dozer)
-Pauline (Mario)
-Tetra (Zelda)
-Din (Zelda)
-Midna & Wolf Link (Zelda) - (ignore link being male)
-Blaze (Sonic)
-Amy (Sonic) - (but I admit it's mostly for the moveset, not a big fan of her as a character)
-Ashley (Wario Ware)
-Mona (Wario Ware)
-Susie (Kirby)
-Three Mage Sisters (Kirby)
-Meloetta (Pokèmon) - (technically genderless, but still)
-Lip (Panel de Pon)
-Marisa Kirisame (Touhou Project)
-Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)
-Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
-Parin (Gurumin)
-Load Ran (Twinkle Star Sprites)
-Miss Pac-Man (Pac-Man)
-Roll (Megaman)
-Roll.EXE (Megaman Battle Network)
-Nikki (Swapnote)
-Toadette (Mario) - (As an alt of Toad though, 4 Toads and 4 Toadettes)
-Arle (Puyo Puyo)
-Amitie (Puyo Puyo)

And probably more, I can't think of any for now.
Really based list, ngl.
 

BZL8

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Miku from Project Diva could absolutely be in Smash
Miku is sort of in an interesting place when it comes to who owns her. The vocal software and her likeness is owned by Crypton Media, while her videogames are owned by Sega. Music is a licensing labyrinth divided across multiple entities. Here's the copyright info for the Project Diva games.

©SEGA. All rights reserved. SEGA is registered in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. SEGA, the SEGA logo, Project DIVA and MEGA MIX are either registered trademarks or trademarks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. © Crypton Future Media, INC. www.piapro.net
Negotiating for the character itself would require Nintendo to directly negotiate with Crypton. However, should elements from Project Diva be implemented into Smash, Nintendo would also have to go through Sega as well.

And that isn't factoring the issue of music. This is arguably the most difficult part when it comes to negotiating for Miku. Because the Miku software is available to the public, a lot of music starring her are split across various artists, labels, and record companies. This isn't a case where Nintendo would negotiate with a single music-holding entity for licenses like Dragon Quest's Sugiyama; Nintendo may have to negotiate with multiple music-holding entities ranging from independent freelance artists to major record companies like Sony Music Japan and Pony Canyon in order to acquire a set of tracks to their liking. Frankly, this is the biggest elephant in the room when it comes to Miku. (Project Diva's tracks are handled by Sony, so Nintendo would have to at least go through one of Japan's largest music labels in order to acquire some appropriate tracks.)

Of course Nintendo could probably have their own in-house composers make original music with the Miku software, but considering how music attached to characters so far are not original, this is probably not likely.

What this shows is that while definitely not impossible if the money and effort is put in, Nintendo would have to go through many hurdles to acquire Miku in Smash.
 
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clearandsweet

Smash Journeyman
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Miku is sort of in an interesting place when it comes to who owns her. The vocal software and her likeness is owned by Crypton Media, while her videogames are owned by Sega. Music is a licensing labyrinth divided across multiple entities. Here's the copyright info for the Project Diva games.



Negotiating for the character itself would require Nintendo to directly negotiate with Crypton. However, should elements from Project Diva be implemented into Smash, Nintendo would also have to go through Sega as well.

And that isn't factoring the issue of music. This is arguably the most difficult part when it comes to negotiating for Miku. Because the Miku software is available to the public, a lot of music starring her are split across various artists, labels, and record companies. This isn't a case where Nintendo would negotiate with a single music entity for music licenses like Dragon Quest's Sugiyama; Nintendo may have to negotiate with multiple music-holding entities ranging from independent freelance artists to major record companies like Sony Music Japan and Pony Canyon in order to acquire a set of tracks to their liking. Frankly, this is the biggest elephant in the room when it comes to Miku. (Project Diva's tracks are handled by Sony, so Nintendo would have to at least go through at least one of Japan's largest music labels in order to acquire some appropriate tracks.)

Of course Nintendo could probably have their own in-house composers make original music with the Miku software, but considering how music attached to characters so far are not original, this is probably not likely.

What this shows is that while definitely not impossible if the money and effort is put in, Nintendo would have to go through many hurdles to acquire Miku in Smash.
That's a really interesting summary. Thanks.

I kind of like the idea of them licensing The World is Mine and being like "holy **** we have to jump through these hoops for EVERY song?" and then just remixing various Nintendo songs in the Vocaloid software for the entire rest of her DLC tracks.

I'm not sure I'm ready to trade Vegetable Juice BGM for her singing the Fire Emblem and F-Zero vocal tracks... wait yes I am what am I saying.

Oh and even though women's day is over and we are no longer legally allowed to talk about female characters for Smash Bros, I will throw out there that while I'd love Shantae and 2B, nobody could top Sami from Advance Wars for me.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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I think Miku works better as an assist trophy if anything. But that spot is taken by the Splatoon girls.
 

ceterisparibus

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Square was basically the only one of the 4 third parties to capitalize on their character getting into Smash now that I think about it.
You missed out Cuphead/Undertale promotions immediately after their mii costumes were announced and Persona scramble being linked to smash for additional bonuses. Smash is a huge advertising tool, its all about the extent to which its being utilized to.
 

Lionfranky

Smash Lord
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Likely because the game is made in Japan with Japanese sensibilities and tastes in mind. I think it was mentioned they have a bit of a language barrier to overcome when dealing with Western companies, which can be tricky when getting everyone to properly convey their messages to one another.

However, I do think at the very least, we're seeing what are basically the baby steps into getting more western content in the game, obviously, Diddy, K.Rool and Dark Samus are made by westerners, from Rare and Retro specifically. But working with Grant Kirkhope, Microsoft and even Toby Fox shows strides of some kind are being made.

Whether this'll lead us to Crash or Lara Croft or whoever else, I got no idea. Yet another time will tell sort of deal.
They still worked with westerners.. otherwise, how else would they have sold their games? Who run Nintendo US?

And smaller companies like Bandai Namco and Koei already worked with western companies regarding crossover. Ex) Soul Caliber: Darth Vader, Spawn, Geralt. DOA 4: Nicole from Halo.

There is a lot of reasons why we have gotten way more Japanese characters, then just sales.

Nintendo only owns two western studios being NST and Retro, Japanese third party support is overall much stronger then western third party support. Like Activsion and Ubisoft are barely on the platform and EA support is non-existent on Switch, Nintendo being a Japanese company is more likely to work with companies in their country and the team that made Smash Ultimate is far more likely to use characters they themselves are more familiar with.
Bethesda and Microsoft have supported Nintendo. For Bethesda, Skyrim and Doom... Skyrim sold well on Switch. Hell, it even inspired Zelda: BOTW. Microsoft publishes Minecraft, Ori and Cuphead on Switch. I don't know what's deal with being more familar when Sakurai himself played plenty of western games.
 

Cutie Gwen

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  • Chose to add the character as DLC rather than base game.
Pretty sure this was so that they had to pay less royalties, if you have to give a say, 5% cut of sales of the fighters pass and individual Hero sales or 5% cut of every sale the game made, which one would give you, the company making the game, more money?

EDIT: Also this implies the Smash team and the DQ team were fully awate that DQXIS would go through development hell back in 2015
 
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cosmicB

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Sounds like Miku would be even harder to get than Sora, assuming she even fits Sakurai's criteria in the first place on what constitutes a video game character.

But man, I'm just imagining Rolling Girl getting into Smash. Would be the perfect tribute to Wowaka.

They still worked with westerners.. otherwise, how else would they have sold their games? Who run Nintendo US?
Not on the development side they don't. Sakurai flat out said Grant Kirkhope was the first non-Japanese composer he ever worked with and it was hard because of the language barrier. This implies the main Smash team is relatively isolated as far as western input is concerned and if they're getting any directly, it's from bilingual people which may or may not include actual developers.
 

N3ON

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Pretty sure this was so that they had to pay less royalties, if you have to give a say, 5% cut of sales of the fighters pass and individual Hero sales or 5% cut of every sale the game made, which one would give you, the company making the game, more money?

EDIT: Also this implies the Smash team and the DQ team were fully awate that DQXIS would go through development hell back in 2015
I'm pretty sure most third-parties opt for DLC these days because receiving a backend of every piecemeal purchase is more lucrative than the deal they receive by being in base, which is more likely a flat rate than an ongoing cut. I really doubt Nintendo has to force the third-parties to be DLC.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I'm pretty sure most third-parties opt for DLC these days because receiving a backend of every piecemeal purchase is more lucrative than the deal they receive by being in base, which is more likely a flat rate than an ongoing cut. I really doubt Nintendo has to force the third-parties to be DLC.
JASRAC's more demanding for that iirc, it's a case like Cloud where there's more than one group to give royalties
 

Captain Shwampy

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I'm not entirely sure why you are looking at a 15 year old feets
First of all dont project yourself onto me

But not entirely sure what you mean?
Second of all the classic stripped sonic shoe design is the epitome of shoe design. Arle current design has shoes that were a clear subtle reference to Sonic. So in my theory it is in fact the same shoe brand in Sega Lore.
 
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SpectreJordan

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Jumping on the female characters bandwagon too. These are characters I think would be neat, not necessarily the ones that I think are likely (tbh I thought 2B was pretty likely, but I'm unsure what to think now after hearing about when Sakurai first met Yoko Taro -- I don't think it's necessarily a hard deconfirm, but it probably hurts her chances)
2B (NieR Automata)
Estelle Bright (Trails in the Sky)
Shantae (Shantae)
Velvet Crowe (Tales of Berseria)
Milla Maxwell (Tales of Xillia)
Sophie (Tales of Graces)
Hat Kid (A Hat in Time)
Alicia Melchiott (Valkyria Chronicles)
Filia (Skullgirls)
Aigis (Persona 3)
Iji (Iji) <- absolutely NEVER gonna happen, but this one's purely for the soundtrack lol

also plz bring back the Jill/Drill Dozer assist trophy, I love that game
Wait, what happened with Sakurai & Taro?

There is a lot of reasons why we have gotten way more Japanese characters, then just sales.

Nintendo only owns two western studios being NST and Retro, Japanese third party support is overall much stronger then western third party support. Like Activsion and Ubisoft are barely on the platform and EA support is non-existent on Switch, Nintendo being a Japanese company is more likely to work with companies in their country and the team that made Smash Ultimate is far more likely to use characters they themselves are more familiar with.
Activision support is actually really good for the Switch, all of their major series besides Call of Duty, Starcraft & Warcraft are on it. The latter two are PC only anyway.

We have Crash, Spyro, Overwatch, Diablo & Skylanders on Switch. It doesn’t seem like a lot but tbh Activision doesn’t actually make a lot of games.

The only weird thing missing is COD since the Wii U even had the series on it. I doubt that the Switch could run the new Modern Warfare, but the Call of Duty 4 remake would absolutely work on Switch & it’s the best game in the series anyway lol

Activision treats Nintendo fairly well. Hell, they were releasing Skylanders & COD on Wii U even when the Japanese third parties had abandoned ship.
 
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ShrimpScampi

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Wait, what happened with Sakurai & Taro?
Just that the timing of when they first met is after when the second Fighter's Pass was decided:
Sakurai met Yoko Taro for the first time on Christmas Day of last year which is after the lineup of FP2 has been decided. Sakurai only met Yoko's wife before that.
How heavily that affects 2B's chances is a question of whether or not Sakurai would personally meet with Taro before putting 2B in. I don't think he'd have to since Nintendo is picking the characters, but I could potentially see him wanting to do that, so I'm still kind of gathering my thoughts on what her chances are. I'd love to see her join though
 
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rise and shine smashers

it be monday and you know what that means

direct today
 

Akg0001

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Most wanted female characters:

1. Jill Valentine
2. 2B
3. Dixie Kong

Thats it. Hopefully direct soon boys & girls. I hate this waiting. Even though I have games to play for months, I need Nintendo hype!
 
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