Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Hadokeyblade]

Things that I think probably deconfirm characters:

* Not being the posterchild of at least one game (Doesn't have to be the main protag, like Nightmare for Soul Calibur or Geno for SMRPG).

* Having a spirits/mii costumes from their game added as post-launch spirits (For example RE, Pokemon Sw/Sh, etc.).
- To a lesser extent, being a base-game Spirit, Mii costume, or AT.

* Being an indie character (looking like those are gonna be 'deluxe' Mii's at this point).

* Being partially owned/associated with Disney.

* Not being a video game character.

* Not being for good boys and girls

That's pretty much my list of doubt criteria. Anything you guys think deconfirms?

A lot of this seems oddly specific.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

"Smaller"? Last time I checked Tekken sold 49 million copies while Devil May Cry only sold 21 million copies. Putting Heihachi on the same scale as Geno and calling him small is not genuine.
But kudos to you for chosing him as the Namco rep and not the literal who named Lloyd like some deluded Tales fanboys often do (heavily overestimating their niche series).

The same way those deluded Banjo fanboys thought their literal who character would get in over a character from the best selling game of all time Minecraft? (And the difference in sales between those two series was FAR BIGGER than the difference in sales between Tales and Tekken).

Lol at calling the 7th best selling JRPG series of all time and the series ranked 4th best JRPG series among Famitsu readers a niche franchise.

 

[Seanapotamus]

Been seeing some jumping to conclusions in this thread based on Sakurai's column. Think I'll give my own take here:

I think the "these six fighters are really extra additions" statement means that all six fighters in Fighters Pass 2 are additional content, just like the last Fighters Pass. Yes, we'll get characters who aren't highly requested but in the end there are people out there who want those characters in Smash.

Personally, I think most of the last six characters we'll be getting are third party. I can see one or maybe two of them being first party. Could said first parties be promotional picks? Who knows. Chances are, one of them could be a SwSh Pokemon (the spirit event from earlier makes things a bit complicated however), one of them could be from the BOTW sequel, one of them could be from Metroid Prime 4. We'll find out within the next couple years.

Also, how is Heihachi a small/niche character, despite the fact that he's basically the face of one of the most iconic fighting game franchises out there?

 

[Cosmic77]

I get that people are trying to narrow down the field, but absolutely nothing in that Famitsu column gave us an idea of what we're getting.

The entire article can be summarized with, "We don't have any current plans for another Smash game. These next six fighters will probably be the end of Ultimate, but I'll give them my all." None of that deconfirms a character.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

IMO, it's silly to think all six characters will be the most commonly discussed characters in the fandom. We may get one or two but we may also get more smaller, "Impossible", or Niche picks.

Even though they're predictions, I just feel a little weird seeing people theorizing we'll get the whole Geno/Hayabusa/Sora/Waluigi/Master Chief/Doom Guy crowd of characters and nothing more. We'll likely get one or two of them but it's gonna be smaller characters, whether people like it or not.

At least that's my guess.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

IMO, it's silly to think all six characters will be the most commonly discussed characters in the fandom. We may get one or two but we may also get more smaller, "Impossible", or Niche picks.

Even though they're predictions, I just feel a little weird seeing people theorizing we'll get the whole Geno/Hayabusa/Sora/Waluigi/Master Chief/Doom Guy crowd of characters and nothing more. We'll likely get one or two of them but it's gonna be smaller characters, whether people like it or not.

At least that's my guess.

And what is your position at Nintendo?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I'm pretty sure were guaranteed at least one of the heavy hitter characters that people are speculating a lot.

A character like Sora or Dante is the perfect E3 direct reveal. They always save the big name characters for E3 reveals and I can't really think of many other big name characters.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I'm pretty sure were guaranteed at least one of the heavy hitter characters that people are speculating a lot.

A character like Sora or Dante is the perfect E3 direct reveal.

Oh yeah, that is almost certain. An ideal world would be a balance of heavy hitters and niche characters so the best of both worlds can be happy.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I wonder who will be the final 6. I really hope for KOSMOS. I like her design and a sexy lady would be nice. Even if Mai is not for good boys and girls.

 

[Dutch Raikuna]

**** me this place can be a bit toxic can it?

Some of yous really to stand down on shoutings.

I think I might do a proper most wanted list again. Like the absolute version for me.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

The same way those deluded Banjo fanboys thought their literal who character would get in over a character from the best selling game of all time Minecraft? (And the difference in sales between those two series was FAR BIGGER than the difference in sales between Tales and Tekken).

Lol at calling the 7th best selling JRPG series of all time and the series ranked 4th best JRPG series among Famitsu readers a niche franchise.

It's also worth pointing out that a new Tales game is being released this year, Tales of Vesperia was ported to Switch, and more ports could easily follow, namely Symphonia and Berseria. Yuri, Lloyd, and Velvet are pretty viable contenders. I think they're all very likely to be spirits and Mii costumes, bare minimum.

Tales has a stronger connection to Nintendo and it's fans than Tekken does, which is why Tales often seems more popular in communities like this with a high concentration of Nintendo fans.
But there's no denying that Tekken has an incredible legacy and has achieved significant commercial and critical success.

I think the main thing Tekken has going for it is the potential of crossing over with Street Fighter and King of Fighters all at once within Smash would be mega hype worthy for fighting game fans, including Sakurai himself.
I am a little surprised that no Tekken games have been ported to Switch. Not even the one that was released on Wii U.
That could always change, though.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Heihachi is small and niche?

This fanbase never ceases to amaze me on their lack of knowledge of gaming history.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Heihachi is small and niche?
View attachment 263094
This fanbase never ceases to amaze me on their lack of knowledge of gaming history.

To some people, if the character ain't the same seven-eight characters that are brought up every day, then they're "Literally who" and "Obscure". At least what I've seen.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Heihachi is small and niche?
View attachment 263094
This fanbase never ceases to amaze me on their lack of knowledge of gaming history.

Going to bump this again for anyone who still unironically thinks Tekken is niche.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Going to bump this again for anyone who still unironically thinks Tekken is niche.

Heihachi is lame. We need Mokogin or Roger!

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Tales has a stronger connection to Nintendo and it's fans than Tekken does.

Yup, Lloyd debuted on the Gamecube while Heihachi was featured in Playstation All Stars and was literally chosen as the Playstation exclusive character in Soul Calibur II (vs Link on the Gamecube). He was pretty much a never ever before Joker made it in. That's why Lloyd's support thread is more than four times larger than Heihachi's and why he's managed to score higher on several polls prior to DLC.

Tales has also appeared on 8 Nintendo consoles compared to just 3 for Tekken.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

The same way those deluded Banjo fanboys thought their literal who character would get in over a character from the best selling game of all time Minecraft? (And the difference in sales between those two series was FAR BIGGER than the difference in sales between Tales and Tekken).

Lol at calling the 7th best selling JRPG series of all time and the series ranked 4th best JRPG series among Famitsu readers a niche franchise.

False equivalency.

Lloyd doesn’t have the fan backing that Banjo did. And this is coming from a supporter of his.

**** me this place can be a bit toxic can it?

Some of yous really to stand down on shoutings.

I think I might do a proper most wanted list again. Like the absolute version for me.

Calling out absurd statements that Tekken is niche =/= toxic.

 

[osby]

Heihachi is lame.

I knew I could count on Smashboards to give me constructive criticism about character picks.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

False equivalency.

Lloyd doesn’t have the fan backing that Banjo did. And this is coming from a supporter of his.

Except Tales isn't nearly as small compared to Tekken as Banjo was to Minecraft, so it all balances out.

20 Million sales vs 40 million is hell of a lot more even than 5 million vs 200 million. And like I stated before, Tales has had more longterm support due to Tekken mostly being seen as an impossibility prior to Joker's addition.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Heihachi is small and niche?
View attachment 263094
This fanbase never ceases to amaze me on their lack of knowledge of gaming history.

Only partially related, but I wonder how much Fatal Fury/King of Fighters have sold?

 

[drag0nscythe]

I knew I could count on Smashbaords to give me constructive criticism about character picks.

He is lame. No need to justify it. Kuma, Roger are much better.

 

[frozolloyd]

It's also worth pointing out that a new Tales game is being released this year, Tales of Vesperia was ported to Switch, and more ports could easily follow, namely Symphonia and Berseria.
Tales has a stronger connection to Nintendo and it's fans than Tekken does.

I think the main thing Tekken has going for it is the potential of crossing over with Street Fighter and King of Fighters all at once within Smash would be mega hype worthy for fighting game fans, including Sakurai himself.
I am a little surprised that no Tekken games have been ported to Switch. Not even the one that was released on Wii U.
That could always change, though.

Yeah that is something that always seems to be left out when going in to conversations comparing Tekken and Tales. Another interesting note for the Tales fanbase is, even though he gets brought up the most, Lloyd most definitely isn't the only rep they could pick. In fact, since we know Nintendo is picking, I wouldn't be surprised (even as a huge fan of Lloyd) if they were to pick the most recent Switch port protagonist over Lloyd, like they essentially did with Luminary over DQIII (though unlike DQIII, they can't really make Lloyd an alternate skin). I also would not doubt if a port of something Tales is coming eventually either, considering Sabi's spot on NOA Ambassador did mention "Tales of news" back in November. And while I'm commenting, it is also an interesting note that out of the 5 DLC characters (excluding piranha plant), 4 of them had or are going to have games on the switch, 3 of them had upcoming games when the FP was decided, and the sole exception was Banjo, who was most likely chosen due to Microsoft wanting him and popularity within the fandom. Just my 2 cents.

 

[JudgeHeihachi]

Yup, Lloyd debuted on the Gamecube while Heihachi was featured in Playstation All Stars and was literally chosen as the Playstation exclusive character in Soul Calibur II (vs Link on the Gamecube). He was pretty much a never ever before Joker made it in. That's why Lloyd's support thread is more than four times larger than Heihachi's and why he's managed to score higher on several polls prior to DLC.

Are you aware that Tekken Tag Tournament 2 got a special Wii-U version with Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, F-Zero and Metroid costumes to promote the launch of the Wii-U? When was Tales chosen to a) promote a Nintendo console launch and b) be given the option to dress your characters as Mario, Bowser, Link or Ganondorf?
I know the answer to both: NEVER!

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Are you aware that Tekken Tag Tournament 2 got a special Wii-U version with Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, F-Zero and Metroid costumes to promote the launch of the Wii-U? When was Tales chosen to a) promote a Nintendo console launch and b) be given the option to dress your characters as Mario, Bowser, Link or Ganondorf?
I know the answer to both: NEVER!

Wii U happens to also be the only Nintendo home console Tekken ever appeared on. And that game came out on PS3 and Xbox 360 FIRST, and then was ported to Wii U, vs Tales of Symphonia which came out on GameCube first before going to PS2.

Meanwhile Tales has been appearing as far back as the Super Famicom, Gamecube, Wii, Switch, you name it. And all four of those consoles demolished the Wii U in terms of sales.

 

[Knight Dude]

Wow. No definitive hints or anything other than Season 2 being the last of the DLC. And people are already getting kind of mad at each other.

I still hold the same opinions that I did for Season 1, give me at least a couple characters I give a **** about, and I'll be good. Terry wasn't even in my top 5 or anything, but I liked his inclusion the most of the bunch. And I think Banjo and Hero are pretty neat.

It'll be interesting to see who's in though, be it new franchises or returning ones. I'm also hoping at least one of the characters will be kind of a surprise that breaks some perceived barrier too. That's always fun in its own right.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Are you aware that Tekken Tag Tournament 2 got a special Wii-U version with Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, F-Zero and Metroid costumes to promote the launch of the Wii-U? When was Tales chosen to a) promote a Nintendo console launch and b) be given the option to dress your characters as Mario, Bowser, Link or Ganondorf?
I know the answer to both: NEVER!

I liked Tekken Tag 2. I am a sucker for "everyone is here" in fighting games. And TT2 was fun. I loved how non serious it was. Only thing I did not like was the lack of unlockables.

 

[JudgeHeihachi]

Wii U happens to also be the only Nintendo home console Tekken ever appeared on.

Meanwhile Tales has been appearing as far back as the Super Famicom, Gamecube, Wii, Switch, you name it. And all four of those consoles demolished the Wii U in terms of sales.

And consistently failed to impress and wasn't even released world-wide until the Gamecube title.
You also seem to forget that unlike Lloyd Heihachi was actually considered before for Smash.
Btw general console exclusivity didn't stop Joker either

 

[Deleted member]

Wii U happens to also be the only Nintendo home console Tekken ever appeared on. And that game came out on PS3 and Xbox 360 FIRST, and then was ported to Wii U, vs Tales of Symphonia which came out on GameCube first before going to PS2.

Meanwhile Tales has been appearing as far back as the Super Famicom, Gamecube, Wii, Switch, you name it. And all four of those consoles demolished the Wii U in terms of sales.

I can totally see the developers going "yeah, I really want Tekken in Smash, but Tales has had games on Nintendo systems and is published by the same company so we have to add that instead."

 

[Mushroomguy12]

And consistently failed to impress and wasn't even released world-wide until the Gamecube title.
You also seem to forget that unlike Lloyd Heihachi was actually considered before for Smash.
Btw general console exclusivity didn't stop Joker either

Yeah, the fact that it's first worldwide release was on a Nintendo console is even greater for it. And you don't even know if Lloyd wasn't considered, Sakurai only talked about Heihachi because he outright rejected him in terms of gameplay.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

Again, I'm surprised that Tekken TT2 hasn't been ported to Switch since Pokken was. I doubt it sold very well on Wii U and I'd think they'd want a greater return on their investment.
If a Tekken character really does make the Smash roster, I'd expect a surprise drop of TT2 on the eShop and/or the announcement of another Tekken game.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I can totally see the developers going "yeah, I really want Tekken in Smash, but Tales has had games on Nintendo systems and is published by the same company so we have to add that instead."

My point was that sales weren't everything, like JudgeHeihachi was insisting, because there were other factors like presence in the Nintendo fandom to be considered. Congrats on your strawman.
I can also totally see the developers going "yeah, I really want Tales in Smash, but Tekken sold a little more so we have to add that instead."

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't have anything to add to the Tekken vs Tales argument.

I don't really care about either TBH, so I have no preference.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Yeah, the fact that it's first worldwide release was on a Nintendo console is even greater for it. And you don't even know if Lloyd wasn't considered, Sakurai only talked about Heihachi because he outright rejected him.

While Tales is a large running series, I just don't think it stands next to tekken.
And given Namco, which has Kosmos, Dark Souls, and Soul Calibur, there is lots of competition for Tales.

 

[Megadoomer]

Both Tekken and Tales Of have valid arguments in their favour. Admittedly, I'm not overly familiar with either series - I've only played Tekken 2, 7, and Tag Tournament 2, while for Tales of, I got partway through Symphonia before getting stuck on a mission to find Sheena's summons (I recall not being able to progress for some reason. and forgetting what my other options were for progressing the story).

From what I've seen, it seems to me like Tales's gameplay would likely translate easier to Smash Bros. (if they're all like Symphonia, anyway - that game has a similar attack system to what Smash Bros. has, using A or B while holding the control stick in various directions), while Tekken seems to have the bigger historical impact (not counting Smash Bros., it's the best-selling fighting game series, even beating out Street Fighter)

A case could be made for either side, but I don't want to see people getting into personal insults over this sort of thing.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Only partially related, but I wonder how much Fatal Fury/King of Fighters have sold?

I don't know about Fatal fury but I know that King of fighters sold relatively well in the ps1/Saturn era. KoF sales was pretty close to Virtua fighter, and were better than Guilty gear and Dead or alive. With the ps2/Xbox era, Guilty gear starts to be way more popular, and Soul calibur appears and sold pretty well with their first game, which hurt a lot KoF. For the Ps3/360 era, KoF was pretty much the least selling fighting game franchises. Dead or alive, Tekken, Blazblue, Mortal kombat and Soul calibur sold more than KoF. Not sure about current gen but I'm guessing that they didn't do that much better because Mortal kombat and Guilty gear are growing to be more popular and I've never heard of KoF selling really more. So KoF used to be pretty big, but as the fighing game market start to have more competition it was kind of forgotten a bit.

 

[frozolloyd]

Are you aware that Tekken Tag Tournament 2 got a special Wii-U version with Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, F-Zero and Metroid costumes to promote the launch of the Wii-U? When was Tales chosen to a) promote a Nintendo console launch and b) be given the option to dress your characters as Mario, Bowser, Link or Ganondorf?
I know the answer to both: NEVER!

Are you aware that Tales of Symphonia sold so well that it actually got a special edition GameCube made in celebration of the game in Japan? The GameCube actually looks dope to, as both the controllers and GameCube were mint green and has a giant picture of Lloyd on top. Though the price is stupidly high as the states never got it lol. https://www.ebay.com/itm/124023760480 If you want to hate Lloyd, that's fine. But at least do some research before acting like Nintendo and Bandai have NEVER done anything with the Tales series to a similar degree.

 

[Knight Dude]

I wouldn't write off either Tales or especially Tekken as obscure. Hell, my current avatar is Eddy Gordo, a character FROM Tekken. Tales has more games on Nintendo systems, so that likely has to do with how many Smash fans, who might only play games on Nintendo systems view Tales in a higher regard than Tekken. In general, it's a fairly big JRPG series.

Tekken's a Top 5 fighting game franchise and, while not to the extent of Tales, has had a few Nintendo releases, Tag 2, Tekken Advance, 3D Prime. It's also out-paced Virtua Fighter as the most iconic 3D fighting game, despite VF being where the sub-genre got it's start. So to say that Heihachi isn't an Iconic game character and arguably Jin and Kazuya, I would say is about as dumb, if not dumber than saying Terry's some nobody. I can admit my bias though, as I grew up with Tekken, even more so than Mario or Mega Man.

Heck, one of the boons to adding a Tekken character in my eyes is potentially getting more Nintendo fans, into a series I personally find to be fantastic. I'd be really happy if we ever got a Tekken collection too. But that's getting a little off-topic I suppose.

 

[N3ON]

>Imagine unironically saying Heihachi/Tekken is as small as Geno

Quite the echo chamber this place is, huh.

One guy equated the characters and the next two pages have been spent ****ting on him, and ascribing the sentiment to seemingly the community at large as if anyone is still maintaining the belief.

An echo chamber perhaps, but not the one you're describing.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Wii U happens to also be the only Nintendo home console Tekken ever appeared on. And that game came out on PS3 and Xbox 360 FIRST, and then was ported to Wii U, vs Tales of Symphonia which came out on GameCube first before going to PS2.

Meanwhile Tales has been appearing as far back as the Super Famicom, Gamecube, Wii, Switch, you name it. And all four of those consoles demolished the Wii U in terms of sales.

Going by this logic, do you think Jack Frost should’ve been chosen before Joker? If not, why so? Nintendo appearances clearly are make or break to you, so it should be quite odd that a character that originated from the Famicom was shafted in favor of a previously PS4 exclusive character.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Going by this logic, do you think Jack Frost should’ve been chosen before Joker? If so, why not? If Nintendo appearances matter that much to you, it should be quite out that a character that originated from the Famicom was shafted in favor of a previously PS4 exclusive character.

Except for those characters are from the same series so that's a false equivalency. And Joker never appeared in Playstation All Stars so.....