Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[MooMew64]

All I'm seeing are people disagreeing about what characters they think would be good in Smash or not, and why.

You're mistaking personal preference and opinions for outright stating something is "better."

No one is saying someone is wrong for thinking a certain way, or if a contrasting opinion is inferior.

Keeping discussions pertaining only to characters, and people not taking personal potshots at one another, is being civil and polite already.

Disagreements =/= impolite.

I wasn't necessarily speaking about your posts, more the ones that felt like others putting each other down.

Stuff like this is honestly what is making me wanna leave Smash speculation like a lot of others I've seen have: There's no way to talk about your most wanted anymore without someone coming in to put them down, and that is kind of a buzzkill for me.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Bandana Waddle Dee occupies a similar spot in my mind to Toad or Waluigi in terms of worthwhile characters to put in Smash; I recognize their worth, but they're a lower priority to me compared to other more important characters in the series to include first, and I can't help but think the main reason why people want them so badly is some degree of OCD compelling them to "put in the fourth player character", even if the trio currently in Smash stood perfectly on their own before a fourth character was created to pad out four-player games.
BanDee is admittedly better than Waluigi because he actually has an existence and life outside of being a fourth to Kirby's adventures, but he and his spear isn't exactly enough to make me want BanDee more than, say, Dark Matter or Gooey.

 

[Jomosensual]

Since the topic of Third Parties in Smash was brought up I might as well bring up something I've been thinking about lately. Smash has been adding a ton of third party content and to be honest minus the occasional speculation of a Pokemon S&S rep, Waluigi memes and those who desire characters like Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee. I've noticed there is a lot less interest in first party content in the Smash community. It almost feels like if Smash didn't add all of these 3rd party guests or essentially evolve into a gaming allstars title rather than just a Nintendo allstars that a lot of people probably would've lost interest in Smash by now.

Does that sound fair to say? I'll be honest, I've been craving new platform fighters as I've been getting bored of Nintendo hogging the thrown for so long and, I won't lie, the only reason I'm still interested is because of the third party content and to complete the roster.

There have been rumors about a new Playstation Allstars game for a bit now. If they fix up some of the flaws from last time I could see it being a legit alternative.

 

[Kokiden]

I wasn't necessarily speaking about your posts, more the ones that felt like others putting each other down.

Stuff like this is honestly what is making me wanna leave Smash speculation like a lot of others I've seen have: There's no way to talk about your most wanted anymore without someone coming in to put them down, and that is kind of a buzzkill for me.

From what I see, it goes both ways.

I mean I had someone just a few minutes ago talk at me like I'm an inexperienced pleb for not having played the latest modern Kirby game because I expressed I'm not a fan of BWD getting in.

Like I said many times before, so long as discussions are kept to the characters and the game, without having potshots at someone else's expense, they can be civil.

I get what you mean though.

Take a break if you need. I know I've taken multiple breaks from this game and it's fanbase. It's the only game where I had to, which really says something...

 

[blackghost]

Smash has reached a point where every newcomer needs a WOW factor or an extreme excitement fact especially DLC. Its been that way since snake took off the box in the brawl trailer. but it wasnt really understood until cloud was shown. Sure older newcomers from Nintendo still may show up infuture games base roster as ultimate got some but the third parties bring in more people, excitement, and gameplay changes than they do. I watched diago play ryu and ken in ultimate. I saw snk fans cry with tears of joy and go out and get the game because terry was in.
I can personally say that seeing your dream impossible character get in is unlike anything else.

Also there was conversation about dante vs travis. idk if they'd be considered the same or simalir kinds of character but if both were on the table and only one is getting chosen... that aint a fair fight.

p.s. travis and dante dont fix the swordsman issue some peopel have so its funny to see them getting this push only for more ******** to happen later should they get in.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Honestly, I could see why Disney would be hesitant to let Sora into Smash.

From a brand perspective, joining Smash is a lot more risky than you might think. You're essentially signing up your character for a game where they shoot at, slice up, and use a hammer to beat a plethora of other characters for sport. Obviously, it's done in a relatively slapstick way, but that could still be a step in a slightly more edgy direction for many of these characters' brands. Likewise, you also have to accept that your character is appearing alongside any characters in the game or any characters that will be added through DLC in the future. It's not enough to be cool with your character sharing a product with brands like Metal Gear, Persona, and Bayonetta, you have to be cool with the possibility that series like Resident Evil and Doom could be alongside your character next.

Contrast this with Disney, a company that has made excessive brand control a major pillar of their business strategy. If Disney licenses their characters, they want to be as hands on as possible to ensure you're using their characters in a way that's consistent with a very particular image. Step outside their set lines? Congrats! You've just earned your product a spot in the "Forget this ever happened" corner of the Disney vault.

Despite Kingdom Hearts being aimed at an older audience, we've seen Disney apply this approach for this brand as well. And, I mean, why wouldn't they? Not only has this approach worked in the past, but Kingdom Hearts is also connected to numerous other products Disney places a lot of value in (Mickey Mouse, their animated library, Pixar's catalog), so controversy involving Kingdom Hearts could ripple out and effect some of the big money makers. So, when its framed like this, why would you take that risk? Pleasing a handful of fans and getting some free publicity and royalties really isn't worth putting someone else in the driver's seat when you've got a very specific destination in mind.

That being said, I do feel sorry for Sora's fans. It always sucks to take a big blow to your chances, no matter who the character is. I have no real connection to the character myself, but I do have an old friend who absolutely loves the series, so I would've been interested in seeing Sora for her sake.

On a side note, it's almost a miracle that the Pokemon Company is still onboard with Smash, considering how protective they are of their brand. It wouldn't surprise me if they wanted off Mr. Sakurai's Wild Ride in the past, only to get rangled back in.

The real brand risk comes from user generated content. People are f'n degenerate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Gooey.

I normally love stupid picks but I dunno how I'd feel about this one...

On the one hand, it's hilariously ridiculous, but on the other hand, I don't like Gooey.

As far as Kirby characters go, Bandanna Waddle Dee is the easiest to see happening. People like Waddle Dees, and Bandanna Waddle Dee is a very prominent member of that species nowadays. Marx might be a better pick though. He seems to be the favorite among Kirby villains (though Dark Matter and Magolor are certainly up there as well) and he would be a much less vanilla looking inclusion (showing off the true wackiness that the Kirby series has to offer).

 

[Guynamednelson]

travis and dante dont fix the swordsman issue some peopel have so its funny to see them getting this push only for more ******** to happen later should they get in.

I think you're the one living in a bubble if you think these two would receive cries of "UGH MORE ANIME SWORDFIGHTERS?"

 

[Jomosensual]

p.s. travis and dante dont fix the swordsman issue some peopel have so its funny to see them getting this push only for more ******** to happen later should they get in.

Swordsman complaints are just a way for people to whine about Fire Emblem or the number of Links without directing saying it.

Anyways, since we're dropping takes I guess mine is that I'd much rather have Cranky Kong get in before Dixie. Cranky being the original DK feels like more than a lot of characters can offer up for legacy and there's a legit unique and fun moveset there too. Not a lot of first parties that have reps already have that much to offer. Like I know Dixie aint a literal who or anything, but ****, Cranky is where it's at for me

The real brand risk comes from user generated content. People are f'n degenerate

Hey now, the Smash fanbase is not that....
*Remembers when stage builder online came out and there was sex themed stages and Mario taking a piss stages where you fought on Marios piss and *****
Oh

 

[PeridotGX]

Never understood the appeal of having Dixie or BWD in Smash. I don't think they'd be too far off from Diddy or Kirby gameplay wise, not to mention they just don't look appealing at all.

Kirby and Bandana Dee would play completely diffrently. Kirby's a fast, floaty, and combo heavy character, but BWD's a slower character with ridiculous range. I'd argue BWD would play more like a mix of and .

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think you're the one living in a bubble if you think these two would receive cries of "UGH MORE ANIME SWORDFIGHTERS?"

Travis has a lightsaber, so he's ok.

People actually want Dante, so you'll only get ironic anime swordsman claims.

Kirby

fast

*wheezing laughter*

EDIT: Seriously though, Bandanna Waddle Dee would certainly give Mr. Game & Watch a run for his money in the shorty with huge disjoints category. Other than that though he wouldn't be super gimmicky unless they gave him some sort of minion summoning powers using the friend hearts from Kirby Star Allies.

 

[Guynamednelson]

People actually want Dante, so you'll only get ironic anime swordsman claims.

There will be more salt over there not being enough salt over another swordfighter being addeed.

"HE'S A HUMAN! HE HAS A SWORD! BE MAD DAMM"-BANG BANG BANG PULL MY DEVIL TRIGGER

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There will be more salt over there not being enough salt over another swordfighter being added.

Nah they'll be too busy fearing the second coming of Bayonetta and annoying the competitive community by trying to ban him.

 

[MooMew64]

From what I see, it goes both ways.

I mean I had someone just a few minutes ago talk at me like I'm an inexperienced pleb for not having played the latest modern Kirby game because I expressed I'm not a fan of BWD getting in.

Like I said many times before, so long as discussions are kept to the characters and the game, without having potshots at someone else's expense, they can be civil.

I get what you mean though.

Take a break if you need. I know I've taken multiple breaks from this game and it's fanbase. It's the only game where I had to, which really says something...

I'll admit that I was somewhat defensive earlier, so I do apologize for that. And yeah, as someone who wants Bandana Dee, telling someone off just because they don't know the character is wrong.

Like, I do sometimes get a bit frustrated that there's such a lack of interest in first parties nowadays, but I'll admit it's an irrational feeling. I love Joker, Hero, Sonic, Banjo, Pac-Man and a lot of other 3rd parties in Smash, but I've always loved Smash for it's Nintendo side the most, so yeah, it does make me sad sometimes there's so much disinterest for what got the series started in the first place.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

After that Spider-Man situation between Disney and Sony, I wouldn’t be surprised over them not wanting Sora in Smash...I still remember the pain and suffering in waiting for them to stop being total ******* and keep my MCU Spidey alive (god bless you drunk Tom Holland)

 

[N3ON]

I feel like DMCV being a recent success has resulted in people overstating how huge a character Dante is.

I mean, he's a popular character from a successful series, he's "bigger" than the characters in the first pass (minus Hero in Japan), and he'd generate a lot of hype, but he's not break-the-internet big. I mean, he's the level of "big", where once Mega Man and Street Fighter get representation, and Resident Evil and Monster Hunter get pushed aside, then yeah, he's probably the next in line for size within Capcom.

I'd put all the third-parties pre-Ultimate (minus Bayo) at least one, if not several ranks above him size-wise, and even then not all those inclusions broke the internet. By Ultimate third-party standards, he'd be towards the top, but let's not go crazy extolling his stature.

There are a bunch of characters that roughly equal his station who have yet to be included.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I really am an island when it comes to wanting first parties, lol.

Oh no! I want them as well. Namely, Paper Mario, Dixie, Impa, Euden, A Rhythm Heaven rep, and (I’m going to get burned at the stake for this one.) A Stylist.

 

[TheYungLink]

I want to explain the anxiety around Dixie Kong in particular.

She is an old character, debuting in 1995. As a result, she has been a big part of the Donkey Kong Country games for a long time. From the very beginning, Dixie Kong was openly feminine, but just as capable as Diddy Kong and even had some exclusive abilities like hovering.

For a Nintendo character, this was a big deal, because the most prominent female Nintendo characters at the time were either relegated to being a feminine damsel in distress (or being playable as a hero only a single time like Peach was) or wore a suit to disguise their looks. She was designed to counteract that: not only was she girly, but s capable hero, just as good at rescuing DK as Diddy Kong was. At the time, Dixie Kong was a very standout character due to this. Though she co-starred in DKC2, she graduated to main character in DKC3, though that entry is overlooked.

She even made appearances in all those odd Paon games like DK Jungle Climber and DK Barrel Blast. The quality of those games are debatable, but her appearances in them emphasize that she was considered a core part of the series even in that awkward period in the series' life.

Anyway, Dixie took two (maybe three) big hits to her memorability.

• First: she was not in Donkey Kong 64. This was the big new DK game for the system, and the opening DK Rap has since become more iconic than the game itself.
• Second, though perhaps not as significant, is that, along with many other elements Rare introduced, Dixie did not make it into Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat. It was the big new DK game for the GameCube, but the only familiar face was Donkey Kong, and the game was overlooked due to its unusual control scheme.
• Third, she was not in Donkey Kong Country Returns. It was the huge comeback of Donkey Kong Country as a series of platformers, but much of the focus was on paying tribute to the very first Donkey Kong Country, which, of course, hadn't introduced Dixie yet.

For a lot of kids, like myself, who grew up with the Nintendo 64, GameCube, and Wii, Dixie was a non entity. I did not form my attachment to her until my curiosity led me to play the older DKC games through Virtual Console, and again when Tropical Freeze came out.

As a result, Dixie is in a unique situation: she, as a character, probably isn't going to be "phased out" of the DKC series after Tropical Freeze brought her back and re-cemented her significance in the series. But Dixie's status has changed: she's gone from "series staple" to "old face that has been brought back". DKC Returns didn't have Dixie Kong, but, 4 years later, DKC Tropical Freeze did. However, that was in 2014. We got a re-release on the Nintendo Switch in 2018, where it sold a lot more, but it still wasn't a new game. Dixie Kong hasn't appeared in any spin-offs ever since her one brand-new appearance in 2014, meaning her status as a "series staple" hasn't had a chance since then to truly re-establish itself.

This means all Dixie Kong has on her side, regarding merits for a Smash inclusion, is history. King K. Rool was in a similar boat, and in much more dire straits due to his and the Kremlings' absence in modern DKC games. However, King K. Rool had sheer fan demand on his side, due to a combination of being a part of two very well-loved boss fights (DKC1 / DKC2) and Smash fans' desire for more villains and bad guys in Smash. So K. Rool had both history and fan demand, while Dixie only has the former. Neither character had the "series staple" advantage that Diddy Kong always had, but aside from that, as history ended up demonstrating, K. Rool was at an advantage.

And now, Dixie fans are at a standstill. Dixie Kong being playable in Smash seems like it would happen in a future entry, depending on if DKC gets another game in time. But we don't know how future Smash games will be like. Considering Sakurai's comments that future Smash games will almost definitely be getting cuts, it would be very bittersweet to have an old Nintendo character from the mid-90s join, but only in a game where Everyone Is Not Here After All.

And now comes the sad part: seemingly, the only character DLC on the horizon is bundles with a character, a stage, music, and spirits. While a Tropical Freeze stage with TF (and DKC3) music would be wonderful, the problem is how Nintendo is marketing the DLC: they are aiming for as many different audiences as possible. And Dixie Kong is, more or less, part of the "Nintendo game playing audience" that Smash already markets to by default.

All of this means that, while Dixie Kong was considered a "safe" inclusion in both Smash 4 and Ultimate, she ended up in neither and may not make it into Ultimate's DLC at all. I'm willing to bet that, if Dixie Kong was a standalone character with no stage or spirits (heck, even no music), plenty of people would buy her, presumably due to a reduced price to account for the lack of bells and whistles ($4.99, $1 less than a Challenger Pack). But, so far, the only character like this is Piranha Plant, and it looks like it may stay that way.

In other words, the safest option for Dixie Kong's inclusion literally may not be an option. Bummer.

So, I hope that explains why so many Dixie Kong fans are on edge. We in her support thread are trying to keep our heads held high, however. We're not giving up until the bitter end.

(Another note: every single game Dixie has ever appeared in, she has been playable. Just one exception: the Smash series. Hmmm.)

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Since the topic of Third Parties in Smash was brought up I might as well bring up something I've been thinking about lately. Smash has been adding a ton of third party content and to be honest minus the occasional speculation of a Pokemon S&S rep, Waluigi memes and those who desire characters like Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee. I've noticed there is a lot less interest in first party content in the Smash community. It almost feels like if Smash didn't add all of these 3rd party guests or essentially evolve into a gaming allstars title rather than just a Nintendo allstars that a lot of people probably would've lost interest in Smash by now.

Does that sound fair to say? I'll be honest, I've been craving new platform fighters as I've been getting bored of Nintendo hogging the thrown for so long and, I won't lie, the only reason I'm still interested is because of the third party content and to complete the roster.

Its simple; people want new universes for Smash, from Nintendo IPs, they could have put a Golden Sun, Rythm Heaven, Costum Robo or Sin & Punishment character but they didn’t do it.

So, thats the basic reason why people (including me) wants more third party characters for DLC; it brings new diversity to the game and enrichs the title of the ultimate crossover of videogame history.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Its simple; people want new universes for Smash, from Nintendo IPs, they could have put a Golden Sun, Rythm Heaven, Costum Robo or Sin & Punishment character but they didn’t do it.

So, thats the basic reason why people (including me) wants more third party characters for DLC; it brings new diversity to the game and enrichs the title of the ultimate crossover of videogame history.

Y'know, I don't think I've ever agreed with a post more. I just want new worlds. Nintendo or 3rd Party is fine.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As a result, Dixie is in a unique situation: she, as a character, probably isn't going to be "phased out" of the DKC series after Tropical Freeze brought her back and re-cemented her significance in the series. But Dixie's status has changed: she's gone from "series staple" to "old face that has been brought back".

According to the devs we almost didn't get that, as Nintendo would have preferred someone (or something) completely new.

Most of the time Nintendo's desire to innovate is amazing, but sometimes it just makes you sad.

 

[N3ON]

It's a shame that there was only new Nintendo world added to Ultimate. I like new third-parties an all, but it's still Smash... it would've been nice (or I guess it would be nice since it's still technically possible) to get more than one. Even though I get why that didn't happen.

Overall I wasn't wild about Smash 4's additions when compared to Ultimate or Brawl, but one thing I did like was the number of new Nintendo "worlds" they included. It was what, five (six with the Miis)? That was nice.

 

[Kokiden]

I'll admit that I was somewhat defensive earlier, so I do apologize for that. And yeah, as someone who wants Bandana Dee, telling someone off just because they don't know the character is wrong.

Like, I do sometimes get a bit frustrated that there's such a lack of interest in first parties nowadays, but I'll admit it's an irrational feeling. I love Joker, Hero, Sonic, Banjo, Pac-Man and a lot of other 3rd parties in Smash, but I've always loved Smash for it's Nintendo side the most, so yeah, it does make me sad sometimes there's so much disinterest for what got the series started in the first place.

Oh it wasn't you I was talking about earlier lol.

If it comes as some solace to you, minds can be changed.

If a character ends up being fun regardless of initial opinions, then I think that could clear up a lot of issues.

That's somewhat the case with Byleth for me. A part of me still thinks another character could've been better BUT he/she is quite fun to play as. Good for multi character brawls and enraging people when breaking shields with xD

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mean I’ve said before that I can find a way to appreciate pretty much any character they add.

It’s just that, when I speculate, I look at a mix of what I’d like to see, and what I think there’s evidence of/reason to expect certain outcomes.

I don’t hate the first parties. Though, I think there’s a certain victimhood being used to stop conversations of the realities first party DLC picks face. The only time they’ve happened is for new Fire Emblem games. Otherwise it’s been 3rd party newcomers. This is across two games.

Could this be broken? Yes. It could. But I don’t really believe it’s going to be broken substantially, if at all. This is also why I don’t expect 1st parties, and there are many 1st party picks that, while there’s nothing wrong with them, would be far more likely as base roster picks. With that timing behind us, I don’t expect them very much.

I don’t really have anything riding on it. I love Smash either way. Bottom line is though, if we’re pointing out the “hate” on 1st parties, I’d say there’s just as much of a “hatred” toward 3rd parties as well. To repeat myself in fairness, I’m not even against first parties. I just don’t think they’re particularly likely for DLC, and I’m not as interested in the 1st parties that are suggested. Doesn’t mean I hate them. The way I see things, they won’t happen in the way that people want or expect.

3rd parties have much more appeal to me at this point, and that’s basically that. I think one thing everybody could do better is at least attempt to learn more about characters/series they don’t know much about, as I usually say.

 

[andree123]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This tweet is very important.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Does 2B being in Soul Calibur hurt her chances of coming to Smash?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Aside from Steve, the Creeper, and technically Geno, the only characters I want to see now are 1st-parties/Pokémon like Gengar. Some other third-parties would be cool, like Crash, Spyro and Doomguy, but a lot don’t really interest me. They could still be fun and cool, though; the characters in the first pass were cool, even if I don’t plan to play their games except maybe DQ in the future (I’ve already played Banjo-Kazooie, though, have played it multiple times since I was 4. Still love it and the characters, their Smash reveal was a happy day). Still would be kinda disappointing to not see any first-parties, though Steve and Geno would leave me a happy camper, especially being with Banjo & Kazooie, and I guess I recognize Geno and the Rare duo as Nintendo/close to Nintendo anyway (even if I can play B-K on XBox). Heh, even Steve has become somewhat close to Nintendo in a way, when you think about it, though not exactly I guess.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Does 2B being in Soul Calibur hurt her chances of coming to Smash?

Nope.

EDIT: Being in another crossover does not keep you from being added to Super Smash Bros. as seen with Terry and his recent crossover with Fighting EX Layer.

 

[slrigeigdew]

Does 2B being in Soul Calibur hurt her chances of coming to Smash?

Why would being in a fighting game hurt her chances in being in another fighting game?

 

[Krankees]

Does 2B being in Soul Calibur hurt her chances of coming to Smash?

No since Terry was revealed for Fighting Ex Layer back in 2018 which was the same year as 2B's Soul Caliber inclusion.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Why would being in a fighting game hurt her chances in being in another fighting game?

I don’t know. It was just a question.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

While we are still mentioning Assassin's Creed and Altair, people have noticed that the song that played during Altair's Mii Costume segment might be an original remix of Ezio's Family. I don't think anyone has found that specific version in any game and people think it might lead to more Ubisoft content because it would seem really weird to have a remix of a very popular AC song play only during a trailer. What do you guys think? I personally think this is very plausible but I'm not going to hype myself a lot.

(I don't wanna derail this thread too much but I'm curious what everyone else thinks, especially the Fat Man himself)

Sadly, that's just the usual Ezio's Family Theme. Skip to about 40 seconds in and you can hear it.

 

[Ricksaw]

Nope.

EDIT: Being in another crossover does not keep you from being added to Super Smash Bros. as seen with Terry and his recent crossover with Fighting EX Layer.

So she has a shot like everyone else right?

 

[slrigeigdew]

I don’t know. It was just a question.

Not only does it not hurt her chances, it slightly helps her imo

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ok, Not sure if this was done recently but.. Villain Pass. No rules. No items. Newcomer / DLC Speculation Discussion thread, hazards off. GO.

Villain Fighter Pass
1. Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]
2. M. Bison [Street Fighter]
3. Nightmare [Soul Calibur]
4. Firebrand [Gargoyle's Quest]
5. Heihachi [Tekken]
6. King Hippo [Punch-Out]

BONUS: Villain Echoes Pass
1. Bass [Mega Man]
2. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
3. Shadow [Sonic]
4. Black Knight [Ike]
5. Liquid Snake [Snake]
6. Octolings [Inklings]

BONUS: Villain Bosses Pass
1. Mother Brain [Metroid]
2. Andross 64 [StarFox]
3. Medusa [Kid Icarus]
4. Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
5. Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
6. Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]

 

[DevaAshera]

Smash has reached a point where every newcomer needs a WOW factor or an extreme excitement fact especially DLC. Its been that way since snake took off the box in the brawl trailer. but it wasnt really understood until cloud was shown. Sure older newcomers from Nintendo still may show up infuture games base roster as ultimate got some but the third parties bring in more people, excitement, and gameplay changes than they do. I watched diago play ryu and ken in ultimate. I saw snk fans cry with tears of joy and go out and get the game because terry was in.
I can personally say that seeing your dream impossible character get in is unlike anything else.

Also there was conversation about dante vs travis. idk if they'd be considered the same or simalir kinds of character but if both were on the table and only one is getting chosen... that aint a fair fight.

p.s. travis and dante dont fix the swordsman issue some peopel have so its funny to see them getting this push only for more ******** to happen later should they get in.

DLC definitely needs a Wow factor, it needs to sell people on it by itself. For the base game though, not to much as long as one or two do.

 

[Nap_]

I want to explain the anxiety around Dixie Kong in particular.

She is an old character, debuting in 1995. As a result, she has been a big part of the Donkey Kong Country games for a long time. From the very beginning, Dixie Kong was openly feminine, but just as capable as Diddy Kong and even had some exclusive abilities like hovering.

For a Nintendo character, this was a big deal, because the most prominent female Nintendo characters at the time were either relegated to being a feminine damsel in distress (or being playable as a hero only a single time like Peach was) or wore a suit to disguise their looks. She was designed to counteract that: not only was she girly, but s capable hero, just as good at rescuing DK as Diddy Kong was. At the time, Dixie Kong was a very standout character due to this. Though she co-starred in DKC2, she graduated to main character in DKC3, though that entry is overlooked.

She even made appearances in all those odd Paon games like DK Jungle Climber and DK Barrel Blast. The quality of those games are debatable, but her appearances in them emphasize that she was considered a core part of the series even in that awkward period in the series' life.

Anyway, Dixie took two (maybe three) big hits to her memorability.

• First: she was not in Donkey Kong 64. This was the big new DK game for the system, and the opening DK Rap has since become more iconic than the game itself.
• Second, though perhaps not as significant, is that, along with many other elements Rare introduced, Dixie did not make it into Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat. It was the big new DK game for the GameCube, but the only familiar face was Donkey Kong, and the game was overlooked due to its unusual control scheme.
• Third, she was not in Donkey Kong Country Returns. It was the huge comeback of Donkey Kong Country as a series of platformers, but much of the focus was on paying tribute to the very first Donkey Kong Country, which, of course, hadn't introduced Dixie yet.

For a lot of kids, like myself, who grew up with the Nintendo 64, GameCube, and Wii, Dixie was a non entity. I did not form my attachment to her until my curiosity led me to play the older DKC games through Virtual Console, and again when Tropical Freeze came out.

As a result, Dixie is in a unique situation: she, as a character, probably isn't going to be "phased out" of the DKC series after Tropical Freeze brought her back and re-cemented her significance in the series. But Dixie's status has changed: she's gone from "series staple" to "old face that has been brought back". DKC Returns didn't have Dixie Kong, but, 4 years later, DKC Tropical Freeze did. However, that was in 2014. We got a re-release on the Nintendo Switch in 2018, where it sold a lot more, but it still wasn't a new game. Dixie Kong hasn't appeared in any spin-offs ever since her one brand-new appearance in 2014, meaning her status as a "series staple" hasn't had a chance since then to truly re-establish itself.

This means all Dixie Kong has on her side, regarding merits for a Smash inclusion, is history. King K. Rool was in a similar boat, and in much more dire straits due to his and the Kremlings' absence in modern DKC games. However, King K. Rool had sheer fan demand on his side, due to a combination of being a part of two very well-loved boss fights (DKC1 / DKC2) and Smash fans' desire for more villains and bad guys in Smash. So K. Rool had both history and fan demand, while Dixie only has the former. Neither character had the "series staple" advantage that Diddy Kong always had, but aside from that, as history ended up demonstrating, K. Rool was at an advantage.

And now, Dixie fans are at a standstill. Dixie Kong being playable in Smash seems like it would happen in a future entry, depending on if DKC gets another game in time. But we don't know how future Smash games will be like. Considering Sakurai's comments that future Smash games will almost definitely be getting cuts, it would be very bittersweet to have an old Nintendo character from the mid-90s join, but only in a game where Everyone Is Not Here After All.

And now comes the sad part: seemingly, the only character DLC on the horizon is bundles with a character, a stage, music, and spirits. While a Tropical Freeze stage with TF (and DKC3) music would be wonderful, the problem is how Nintendo is marketing the DLC: they are aiming for as many different audiences as possible. And Dixie Kong is, more or less, part of the "Nintendo game playing audience" that Smash already markets to by default.

All of this means that, while Dixie Kong was considered a "safe" inclusion in both Smash 4 and Ultimate, she ended up in neither and may not make it into Ultimate's DLC at all. I'm willing to bet that, if Dixie Kong was a standalone character with no stage or spirits (heck, even no music), plenty of people would buy her, presumably due to a reduced price to account for the lack of bells and whistles ($4.99, $1 less than a Challenger Pack). But, so far, the only character like this is Piranha Plant, and it looks like it may stay that way.

In other words, the safest option for Dixie Kong's inclusion literally may not be an option. Bummer.

So, I hope that explains why so many Dixie Kong fans are on edge. We in her support thread are trying to keep our heads held high, however. We're not giving up until the bitter end.

(Another note: every single game Dixie has ever appeared in, she has been playable. Just one exception: the Smash series. Hmmm.)

Yes to everything.
Saddest thing is that I feel that she is one of the few Nintendo characters that 'deserves' a place but her status or feeling about being incluided is really bad. Missing the trains of the base game, echo fighter or alone DLC character hurts her chances for pass 2. It still could be a surprise ( DK stuff in Ultimate as stages and music is a joke, enough for build a new pass slot with things left behind) but I really doubt it. I'm sure she wiil be a fighter in the future games, but 80 characters and still missing Dixie sucks a lot.
The biggest chance for her is just being a surprise.

 

[Knight Dude]

Why is Geno an exception to literally everything in this community?

If Sakurai truly wanted him playable now, he would’ve done so already, he got the rights to him twice, but still didn’t make him playable.

Yeah, you could say the same thing about a lot of characters.

Mega Man.EXE could just have extra spirits that are Net Navi's for example. Or Chun-Li bringing in another 10 or so Street Fighter Spirits. KoF's got plenty of characters to implement into Spirit Fights if they felt like adding Kyo or something.

I can see you giving Proto a longer down tilt as well, replacing his up tilt with him holding his shield over his head and hitting you- And maybe changing his forward smash, because Protoman doesn't use the charge shot?

For Jeanne, maybe just give her a normal counter. Nothing too fancy there, lol

Proto Man does have a charge shot in many games. He would probably be a glass cannon compared to Mega Man, so he hits even harder, but it much lighter. In MM9 and MM10, he takes extra knockback from getting hit. While Mega Man's is comparatively a tanky fighter.

 

[WeirdSandwich]

Ok, Not sure if this was done recently but.. Villain Pass. No rules. No items. Newcomer / DLC Speculation Discussion thread, hazards off. GO.

1. M. Bison
2. Porky
3. Captain Syrup
4. Vaati
5. Carmen Sandiego
6. Kefka

 

[Mamboo07]

Ok, Not sure if this was done recently but.. Villain Pass. No rules. No items. Newcomer / DLC Speculation Discussion thread, hazards off. GO.


1) Zoda (StarTropics)
2) Medusa (Kid Icarus)
3) King Hippo (Punch Out!)
4) Metal Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog)
5) Bass (Megaman)
6) Nightmare (Soul Calibur)

1. Shake King (Wario)
2. Titan Dweevil (Pikmin)
3. Dark Matter (Kirby)
4. Dr Eggman (Sonic)
5. Death (Castlevania)
6. Gore Magala (Monster Hunter)