Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

What?? I call BS on that. MCC will NOT be on the Switch, and I'm willing to bet on that.

What article of clothing you gonna eat this time?

 

[Deleted member]

Who is the one character everyone wants, but they know in their hearts of hearts it’ll never happen?

For me, it’s Cooking Mama.

Duster from Mother 3. He's easily my favorite party member out of the entire series and I really like his kit, personality, potential moveset you name it but truthfully he's never ever happening as Lucas is already kind of pushing it as Sakurai said no Japan-Only characters which means it's a definite no for Duster.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, the "gimmick" is switching weapons in her moveset. It still brings a unique, new playstyle to Smash.

Again, I can't agree. If summoning weapons for different attacks is a gimmick we already have like 15 of those, Zelda alone having 5

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Hmm, I put a link to mine in that post, but it broke somehow.

Oh sweet, Contra. I score yours 2/6 as well. Only because I don’t know anyone after your second choice.

Sidenote: Do you have a template for this?

 

[MisterMike]

Who is the one character everyone wants, but they know in their hearts of hearts it’ll never happen?

For me, it’s Cooking Mama.

God, that really narrows it down. I guess out of all of them, Ristar would probably fit that description for me the most. I freakin' love those games to pieces, but I know it's a complete pipe dream. Hell, I think we'd be lucky to see him get in as a Spirit or Mii Costume. It kind of makes me wish that SEGA would just make a full-on SEGA Smash Bros-esque game already, it would be a great way to celebrate their vast library of amazing characters.

The hog just seems more appropriate as a stage hazard because it's not something Crash Bandicoot can use in his games for any situation. That's why the Fruit Bazooka works better.

Yeah I see what you mean, but I dunno, there's something so wrong about not having Crash's most iconic move as his Neutral-Special. It would also mean that Kirby couldn't use it, and not being able to make him spin around like Crash would be a tragedy.

 

[Herocin]

I have a question for Crash fans. The first pass have a big emphasis on characters gimmick and unique mechanics, even Sakurai acknowledge it. I'm guessing the second pass will also have lot of these, so what would Crash could bring new? By the way I'm not asking that because I think a character that have no gimmick have no chance, I'm just curious to read some idea because I really don't have any.

Crash doesn’t need a gimmick and I’d go as far to say he shouldn’t have one due to the fact that he should be a character that has a simple moveset with a few advanced techniques much like the crash games. I don’t necessarily think every character should just have a gimmick tacked on just for the sake of having one. It would poorly misrepresent the characters they do just randomly tack random gimmicks onto. It doesn’t hurt to have a relatively simple character like Banjo or Byleth every once in a while. He could have a unique moveset though. A spin which wouldn’t be at all a clone of Meta Knights or Incineroars, fruit bazooka for side b which could be aimed all around crash or maybe just in front of him, a breakable crate bounce and possibly a bellyflop down b. It may seem a little similar to other characters but they’d function much differently so he would still stand on his own

 

[SlickWylde]

What article of clothing you gonna eat this time?

You tell me!

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Yeah I see what you mean, but I dunno, there's something so wrong about not having Crash's most iconic move as his Neutral-Special. It would also mean that Kirby couldn't use it, and not being able to make him spin around like Crash would be a tragedy.

Yeah it is a bit unfortunate that he wouldn't be able to spin but Kirby doesn't use the spin dash as Sonic or the Mega Buster as Megaman. I mean at least he'd be able to shoot out wumpa fruit. That's just as iconic, right?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sidenote: Do you have a template for this?

Edit: You can get it here.

 

[doomedtacox]

If King Zell turns out to be true, then we will hear something big in next Nintendo Direct. If he is true, it means that MS will try to push Master Chief into Smash to promote Halo on Switch. Sure, Nintendo has no obligation to help Microsoft with this as Smash hasn't always been about promotion besides their own games. But, this is Microsoft that allowed Banjo. I think they will try to lower price or cover up portion of Master Chief dlc development cost to make up for Japan. Who knows? Nintendo may make exception for Chief despite Japan.

what did he say?

 

[P.Kat]

Assume Octoling is a semi clone in the vein of Wolf/Lucas/Isabelle, using some weapons the Inklings don’t like chargers and dualies

Oh, okay yeah I'd be interested in having them come to Smash. One weapon that I wanted the Inklings to have coming into Smash was the dualies, they're my favorite weapon in Splatoon.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I don't have the link handy but we definitely do, it was posted a few days ago.

If you happen to come across it again please let me know. I’m all about aesthetic.

 

[SlickWylde]

King zell is yet to get anything wrong from what he said before and he only talks nintendo stuff so why mention MCC?

I actually enjoy being wrong, so doesn't bother me. What should my punishment be if I'm wrong?

 

[Herocin]

What are you talking about, Byleth gimmick is her weapons

It's literally in his portrait artwork

It’s not really a gimmick. From a design concept perspective (aka Sakurai’s) then it could be then it considered a gimmick but to us it’s not. He doesn’t switch between the weapons he just uses each of the weapons for a certain direction smash, aerial and special. For instance the axe is used for down air, down smash and down specialwhike the bow is used for Neutral Air and Neutral Special. It’s essentially just switching weapons for specific attacks

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I actually enjoy being wrong, so doesn't bother me. What should my punishment be if I'm wrong?

...Be careful who you ask this, mkay?

If you happen to come across it again please let me know. I’m all about aesthetic.

BTW, check upwards. He edited in a link for you.

 

[Cosmic77]

The trailer presented it as a unique gimmick thanks to that one pic with all the weapons and arrows, but Byleth's ability to switch out weapons isn't really a gimmick. Multiple characters fight with more than one weapon, and it's really not that different from someone like Link, Snake, or Simon.

Now if Byleth had a full moveset for each weapon, that would be a unique gimmick.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If you happen to come across it again please let me know. I’m all about aesthetic.

Found it.

 

[Flyboy]

Hmm, I put a link to mine in that post, but it broke somehow.

Any 6 out of these 30 would earn a 6/6.

Not based on their chances, just how much I want them.

Huh, seeing your list laid out like this, we actually cross over pretty well taste-wise. I'm not that surprised since I also really like retro characters and have a soft spot for River City Ransom, but it's nice to see characters like Heihachi and Phoenix on here.

Shame my list would get a 2/6.

Spoiler: Once more, with feeling!

With that said, Dante and Kiryu are totally honorable mentions if companies get second reps in a single pass.

 

[P.Kat]

Who is the one character everyone wants, but they know in their hearts of hearts it’ll never happen?

For me, it’s Cooking Mama.

Yuzuriha from Under Night in Birth.

Spoiler

 

[SNEKeater]

hope there aren't any kunio stans here

【スピリッツイベント】
『熱血硬派くにおくん』シリーズのキャラクターがスピリッツボードに殴り込み！ 1/24(金)から5日間、イベント「ダウンタウン 熱血スマブラ行進曲」を開催。新規スピリッツ4種類が登場するので、ぜひチェックしてみてください！#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/5EIQeDCfrC

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) January 22, 2020

I just saw this a few hours ago lmao
Is this coming to the west?

Very surprised with these spirits. Could mean ArcSys and Nintendo talked for something else as well, not that its the most likely scenario anyway. But there's hope, I guess.
I would gladly take a Guilty Gear spirit board or a Mii Costume for Sol, that's better than what I'm expecting for him lol

 

[Tako Tuesday]

Ok but try THIS challenger’s pack on for size:

1. Crash Bandicoot
2. Neku Sakuraba
3. Octoling (cause they’d be FP8, get it?)
4. Elma (yes, Elma. I still believe Rex is as good as dead in the water and will have to wait for next game)
5. KOS-MOS
6. Ryu Hayabusa

I like this quite a lot. No Lloyd, but Octoling and Elma make up for that. And lots of solid picks overall.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

For the most part, a gimmick is usually some unique mechanic. But it can also be used to refer to a special idea for a character that doesn't translate to a proper gameplay mechanic in itself. Pit's Bow being split apart isn't a real gameplay mechanic. There's no stance switch, nothing hyper special about it. But it's a kind of gimmick that is unexpected from a bow user. In many cases, it's common to a see a ranger class have a backup sword, but this isn't what it is, so it does stand out.

Of course, doesn't mean the word gimmick is being used well either, but that's more or less what people mean.

 

[StarBot]

Hmm, I put a link to mine in that post, but it broke somehow.

Any 6 out of these 30 would earn a 6/6.

Not based on their chances, just how much I want them. But yes, the lack of a photoshop doesn't effect the score.

I see no Walugi, so your list gets a 10/10 out me of me

 

[DarthEnderX]

Shame my list would get a 2/6.

Considering nobody but me has score above a 4 so far, a 2 is pretty good!

I just saw this a few hours ago lmao
Is this coming to the west?

Well, if you boot up Smash, it's already being advertised in game.

 

[Tako Tuesday]

Who is the one character everyone wants, but they know in their hearts of hearts it’ll never happen?

For me, it’s Cooking Mama.

Any other Sonic character.

 

[Herocin]

If King Zell turns out to be true, then we will hear something big in next Nintendo Direct. If he is true, it means that MS will try to push Master Chief into Smash to promote Halo on Switch. Sure, Nintendo has no obligation to help Microsoft with this as Smash hasn't always been about promotion besides their own games. But, this is Microsoft that allowed Banjo. I think they will try to lower price or cover up portion of Master Chief dlc development cost to make up for Japan. Who knows? Nintendo may make exception for Chief despite Japan.

How? Just because Microsoft port the MCC doesn’t mean Chief will appear in
Smash and by the way you phrased this it sounds like you think they will and also zell never even confirmed it would be announced in whatever or whenever the next direct is

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I just saw this a few hours ago lmao
Is this coming to the west?

Very surprised with these spirits. Could mean ArcSys and Nintendo talked for something else as well, not that its the most likely scenario anyway. But there's hope, I guess.
I would gladly take a Guilty Gear spirit board or a Mii Costume for Sol, that's better than what I'm expecting for him lol

Yes, I got the notifcation that is was coming when I was playing Ultimate last night.

 

[staindgrey]

Who is the one character everyone wants, but they know in their hearts of hearts it’ll never happen?

NiGHTS.

There are other characters who mean more to me in the grand scheme of things (anyone from Resident Evil) and characters whom I love that will never be considered whatsoever (Hawke), but NiGHTS hits a very specific note with Smash speculation.

Smash, for me, is a culmination of my youth and a representation of how my tastes and knowledge have changed with each passing version. As I was a huge Sega kid that eventually switched to Nintendo, the inclusion of Sonic in Brawl blew my goddamn mind. But Sonic isn't actually the first thing I think of when Sega comes to mind. It's NiGHTS.


When I was seven, my parents got us a Sega Saturn for Christmas. It was my first ever game console that wasn't borrowed from someone else, and it was my favorite thing ever. But I only had the three discs included in the box because buying the Saturn in itself was already a lot of money. So I played those on repeat until my eighth birthday.

That day, my older cousin brought over his light guns so we could play Virtua Cop on the big TV in the basement, and in that moment, I had the coolest house in town. But then my birthday gift was NiGHTS Into Dreams..., with a new joystick controller that was unlike anything I'd held before. And it was the coolest game I'd ever played.

NiGHTS was the first game I ever beat, start to finish. It was the first game I could show off to others how "good" I was at. It was the first 3D game that made me think of videogames as more than just Mario and Sonic platformers; it made me imagine more.


Out of all the influential gaming icons that played a part in making me the gamer I am today, NiGHTS is the most glaring omission.

 

[3BitSaurus]

NiGHTS.

There are other characters who mean more to me in the grand scheme of things (anyone from Resident Evil) and characters whom I love that will never be considered whatsoever (Hawke), but NiGHTS hits a very specific note with Smash speculation.

Smash, for me, is a culmination of my youth and a representation of how my tastes and knowledge have changed with each passing version. As I was a huge Sega kid that eventually switched to Nintendo, the inclusion of Sonic in Brawl blew my goddamn mind. But Sonic isn't actually the first thing I think of when Sega comes to mind. It's NiGHTS.


When I was seven, my parents got us a Sega Saturn for Christmas. It was my first ever game console that wasn't borrowed from someone else, and it was my favorite thing ever. But I only had the three discs included in the box because buying the Saturn in itself was already a lot of money. So I played those on repeat until my eighth birthday.

That day, my older cousin brought over his light guns so we could play Virtua Cop on the big TV in the basement, and in that moment, I had the coolest house in town. But then my birthday gift was NiGHTS Into Dreams..., with a new joystick controller that was unlike anything I'd held before. And it was the coolest game I'd ever played.

NiGHTS was the first game I ever beat, start to finish. It was the first game I could show off to others how "good" I was at. It was the first 3D game that made me think of videogames as more than just Mario and Sonic platformers; it made me imagine more.


Out of all the influential gaming icons that played a part in making me the gamer I am today, NiGHTS is the most glaring omission.

Not gonna lie, I have no idea how NiGHTS would play considering his home game mechanics, but an AT that dashes and Paraloops the hell out of everybody would have been cool for Ultimate, at the very least.

Like, you know how Sega got Akira as a "not-playable series AT"? I kinda wanted NiGHTS to have had a similar opportunity.

 

[Schnee117]

I actually enjoy being wrong, so doesn't bother me. What should my punishment be if I'm wrong?

You eat two shoes.

 

[Olaole]

Just having a shot at this whole list/prediction thing here and see what sticks. Gonna starts listing potentially interesting picks, what I think of them and then creating a list based on that.

Potential picks:
01. Ryu Hayabusa - The classic. NES looks and moves + the legendary 4-2 stage with Unbreakable Determination playing in the background and those annoying hawks hitting you for way too much damage would make for a great retro pick. Just make sure to mimick the original cutscene as a reveal trailer, it is one of the earliest cutscenes in gaming after all.
02. Rex & Pyra/Mythra - I think Xenoblade 2 has a horrible plot and annoying characters, but some great mechanics and music. Since a XB2 rep barely missed the deadline, seems to enjoy great popularity and - more importantly - has the potential to have a great moveset that could change based on which blade is currently Rex's partner I don't see why Nintendo shouldn't go for the obvious.
03. Heihachi - We need more fighting game representation and Heihachi is not only highly requested, but was a contender to become playable in the past. If Sakurai can figure out how to properly translate Tekken verbs into a coherent Smash moveset he is extremely likely.
04. Generic Monster Hunter - Everything until the release of Ultimate screamed "cut rep" when it came to MonHun to me; Rathalos, a proper boss stage, but no proper character?! With Byleth's moveset incorporating several weapons the potential for a monster hunter to be added seem low by now, however - Sakurai wants to priorize new mechanics for each DLC fighter, after all.
05. A Generation 8 Pokemon - It's inevitable for obvious reasons, just like FE3H was. The question is - will it be yet another starter Pokemon or will Sakurai use this slot to promote the season pass by adding Urshifu. I hope for the latter since his design and lore leans heavily into a good moveset (plus style switch as potential gimmick), but fear it will be Cinderace because it is not only a starter but also the partner Pokemon of the new anime protagonist.
06. The Chosen Undead - Worldwide appeal, unique artstyle and potential for a very creative moveset. Could run into the same problems I detailed above when talking about MonHun, however a specific revival mechanic might give him the edge. Plus we most likely get Anor Londo as a stage with lots of Sakuraba tracks.
07. Breath of the Wild 2 Zelda - In the latest video Sakurai stated that he played BotW early and that Zelda wouldn't have made for a very good smash character in *that iteration*. Awfully specific, seems to me that he's aware of Zelda's lack of new reps and tries to change that. While modern iterations of Impa or a villian like Skull Kid would be more interesting, these are more suited for a basegame addition rather than DLC due to mainstream appeal. Based on the teaser it seems Zelda will be much more active in the sequel, so there is a decent chance she might smash if her new role enables a moveset.
08. Geno - Let's be honest here: His popularity is stateside. He might have been a contender in the old days, but so were Chorus Kids and he just seems too niche to warrant a DLC inclusion. There are tons of other RPG reps out there that can drive more sales worldwide and are equally liked by Sakurai.
09. The Obligatory Unexpected Retro Character - Rather unlikely since by now most of the truly iconic characters are already in Smash, but let me use this guess as a little excuse to list my favourite oldschool picks:
- Space Harrier: SEGA Rep, Railshooter Rep, a cool flying 80s dude with glasses that shoots dinos with lasers. The good kind of weird.
- Arthur: Ghost 'n Goblins is a NES classic, Arthur uses a lance and many other subweapons, his armor upgrades could make for a good gimmick and there is potential for a truly evil stage with the Red Arremer.
- Mach Rider: Grinch Leak or not, this could be the next Captain Falcon and a vehicle gimmick is surely unique.
- Ax Battler/Gilius: Golden Axe is a gem and I am sure SEGA wouldn't mind its inclusion. Also, axes. We need axes.
- Chrono : Unexpected because yet another Toriyama designed swordsmen from a classic RPG series, but I reckon way more popular than everyone else I listed so far.
10. A "Tier 2" Fighting Game Character - So many good fighting games out there, but not everything can be as big as SF, Tekken, MK or Smash. Siegfried from Soul Calibur, Ragna from BlazBlue, Haohmaru from Samurai Showdown (Nakoruru is unlikely, sadly), Kasumi from Dead or Alive, Demitri from Darkstalkers (Felicia and Morrigan are very much Mai Shiranui'd here), Akira from Virtua Fighter and many others would make for cool, but unlikely additions.
11. Kazuma Kiryu - Extremely unlikely due to obvious issues of having a "real world" Japanese criminal join a family-friendly game, but he has a very diverse move pool and would bring not only a new aesthetic but amazing music tracks with him.
12. Dante - Iconic, hilarious, full of style and great moves. Would love to have him in the game, but there are so many potential Capcom reps. The question is what moves they incorporate into his moveset, but I have no doubt that he would make a spectacular entry no matter.
13. A Resident Evil Character - Leon, Claire, Jill, etc. -Plenty of good choices for this one, though I once think the nature of the series makes it a bit less likely than usual. Not to mention that the more slow and methodical gameplay elements of the pre-RE4 titles clash with a series such a Smash.
14. Lloyd Irving - The Tales series has many characters that stand out, but Lloyd has been the most requested for a good reason. His emphasis on speed and comos also lend itself to a good moveset, though I have no doubt many would claim him to be yet another aniem swordsmen.
15. An Indie Character - Similar to my ninth suggestion, I will use this as a short sublist for characters I'd like to see, but overall I don't really think any inclusion is likely since we have so many bigger boxes to tackle and Mii costumes, assist trophies cover them pretty well:
- The Knight/Hornet: Popular, but too new. Potential for a nice agility based moveset in Hornet's case, but I can see them as Mii Swordfighter costumes in the vein of Cuphead and Sans.
- Shovel Knight: Assist trophy covers him well, but everyone's favourite amalgamation of Megaman, DuckTales NES and Super Mario Bros 3 would be a delight to have nevertheless.
-Shantae: Imho more popular stateside than anywhere else and while I like her design and abilities, she is the least likely on this sublist.
- Reimu/Marisa/: Touhou is a nightmare copyright-wise when you take a look outside of the main games - and this is arguably where Touhou really gets his charm from and a major roadblock for any inclusion.
16. Howard (Astral Chain Protagonist) - The dark horse of the pass imho: Sold very well, the Legions are a good potential gimmick and it is a young IP that is worth pushing and establishing.


Now, time for Fighter's Pass 2:

I will be rather conservative and gonna assume both Rex and a Pokemon are basically set in stone already. This leaves us with four more slots of which I think a mix of new and old would fair the best economically and allow to appeal for the widest demographic. Therefore we should have at least one classic/retro character, one huge household name and then focus more on evergreens and new IP. Plus, gimmicks shouldn't be too similar to each other.

My expectations are therefore:
1. Cinderace
2. Rex
3. Ryu Hayabusa
4. Howard (AC)
5. BotW2 Zelda
6. Dante

Very conservative, but I feel this is a good mix of both new and old as well as third and first party. However, my personal hopes are a bit more out there:

1. Urshifu
2. Ryu Hayabusa
3. Dante
4. Heihachi
5. Chosen Undead
6. An unlikely surprise pick like Kiryu Kazuma, a retro/indie char, etc.

As I said, we won't escape Pokemon but we can at least make the best out of it. As for the others: A good mix of genres with a stronger focus on legacy IPs since I think we still have many classics left that need representation. I would love to be surprised by sakurai though, which is why I left spot 6 open on purpose.

PS: Just realized I glossed over Steve, Tracer or a Fortnite representation. Just don't think they are likely at all: Blizzard's China Hearthstone debacle seems to have ruffled some feathers at Nintendo HQ, same goes for Epic and their ties to Tencent and we already got Banjo and Cuphead from MS. An Ori Mii costume or other Minecraft content are a lot likelier than the rest, though.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I have a question for Crash fans. The first pass have a big emphasis on characters gimmick and unique mechanics, even Sakurai acknowledge it. I'm guessing the second pass will also have lot of these, so what would Crash could bring new? By the way I'm not asking that because I think a character that have no gimmick have no chance, I'm just curious to read some idea because I really don't have any.

There's a few Gimmicks Crash could have

1. Aku Aku- Crash could have a move that summons his witch doctor mask friend to protect him from a hit. I'm thinking infinite but single hit super armor
2. Wumpa fruits- Borrowing from his Kart games, Crash could have a gimmick where when he collects 10 Wumpa fruit his special moves power up but being hit causes him to loose some.
3. Crates- Crash could summon and leave crates lying around for some of his attacks (spring box for up special, TNT for down special) that get in the way of opponents
4. Spining- Crash could cancel out of any action into a spin attack which has less range than Incinaroar's Darkest Lariat but can deflect (not reflect) projectiles.

 

[Deleted member]

08. Geno - Let's be honest here: His popularity is stateside. He might have been a contender in the old days, but so were Chorus Kids and he just seems too niche to warrant a DLC inclusion. There are tons of other RPG reps out there that can drive more sales worldwide and are equally liked by Sakurai.

Geno wouldn't represent the RPG genre as a whole so I don't see how other RPG reps would necessarily be seen as competition for him. He'd represent the Mario franchise, not an entire gaming genre.

 

[Olaole]

Geno wouldn't represent the RPG genre as a whole so I don't see how other RPG reps would necessarily be seen as competition for him. He'd represent the Mario franchise, not an entire gaming genre.

Even Waluigi and his dreadful memes are more relevant to Mario than Geno nowadays though. Or Pauline, Captain Toad or Toadette....

 

[Deleted member]

Even Waluigi and his dreadful memes are more relevant to Mario than Geno nowadays though. Or Pauline, Captain Toad or Toadette....

>relevant
That apparently matters now all of a sudden? Guess I missed the memo. Looks like we'll have to cut K. Rool, Banjo, Duck Hunt and ROB ladies and gents.

 

[Herocin]

Just having a shot at this whole list/prediction thing here and see what sticks. Gonna starts listing potentially interesting picks, what I think of them and then creating a list based on that.

Potential picks:
01. Ryu Hayabusa - The classic. NES looks and moves + the legendary 4-2 stage with Unbreakable Determination playing in the background and those annoying hawks hitting you for way too much damage would make for a great retro pick. Just make sure to mimick the original cutscene as a reveal trailer, it is one of the earliest cutscenes in gaming after all.
02. Rex & Pyra/Mythra - I think Xenoblade 2 has a horrible plot and annoying characters, but some great mechanics and music. Since a XB2 rep barely missed the deadline, seems to enjoy great popularity and - more importantly - has the potential to have a great moveset that could change based on which blade is currently Rex's partner I don't see why Nintendo shouldn't go for the obvious.
03. Heihachi - We need more fighting game representation and Heihachi is not only highly requested, but was a contender to become playable in the past. If Sakurai can figure out how to properly translate Tekken verbs into a coherent Smash moveset he is extremely likely.
04. Generic Monster Hunter - Everything until the release of Ultimate screamed "cut rep" when it came to MonHun to me; Rathalos, a proper boss stage, but no proper character?! With Byleth's moveset incorporating several weapons the potential for a monster hunter to be added seem low by now, however - Sakurai wants to priorize new mechanics for each DLC fighter, after all.
05. A Generation 8 Pokemon - It's inevitable for obvious reasons, just like FE3H was. The question is - will it be yet another starter Pokemon or will Sakurai use this slot to promote the season pass by adding Urshifu. I hope for the latter since his design and lore leans heavily into a good moveset (plus style switch as potential gimmick), but fear it will be Cinderace because it is not only a starter but also the partner Pokemon of the new anime protagonist.
06. The Chosen Undead - Worldwide appeal, unique artstyle and potential for a very creative moveset. Could run into the same problems I detailed above when talking about MonHun, however a specific revival mechanic might give him the edge. Plus we most likely get Anor Londo as a stage with lots of Sakuraba tracks.
07. Breath of the Wild 2 Zelda - In the latest video Sakurai stated that he played BotW early and that Zelda wouldn't have made for a very good smash character in *that iteration*. Awfully specific, seems to me that he's aware of Zelda's lack of new reps and tries to change that. While modern iterations of Impa or a villian like Skull Kid would be more interesting, these are more suited for a basegame addition rather than DLC due to mainstream appeal. Based on the teaser it seems Zelda will be much more active in the sequel, so there is a decent chance she might smash if her new role enables a moveset.
08. Geno - Let's be honest here: His popularity is stateside. He might have been a contender in the old days, but so were Chorus Kids and he just seems too niche to warrant a DLC inclusion. There are tons of other RPG reps out there that can drive more sales worldwide and are equally liked by Sakurai.
09. The Obligatory Unexpected Retro Character - Rather unlikely since by now most of the truly iconic characters are already in Smash, but let me use this guess as a little excuse to list my favourite oldschool picks:
- Space Harrier: SEGA Rep, Railshooter Rep, a cool flying 80s dude with glasses that shoots dinos with lasers. The good kind of weird.
- Arthur: Ghost 'n Goblins is a NES classic, Arthur uses a lance and many other subweapons, his armor upgrades could make for a good gimmick and there is potential for a truly evil stage with the Red Arremer.
- Mach Rider: Grinch Leak or not, this could be the next Captain Falcon and a vehicle gimmick is surely unique.
- Ax Battler/Gilius: Golden Axe is a gem and I am sure SEGA wouldn't mind its inclusion. Also, axes. We need axes.
- Chrono : Unexpected because yet another Toriyama designed swordsmen from a classic RPG series, but I reckon way more popular than everyone else I listed so far.
10. A "Tier 2" Fighting Game Character - So many good fighting games out there, but not everything can be as big as SF, Tekken, MK or Smash. Siegfried from Soul Calibur, Ragna from BlazBlue, Haohmaru from Samurai Showdown (Nakoruru is unlikely, sadly), Kasumi from Dead or Alive, Demitri from Darkstalkers (Felicia and Morrigan are very much Mai Shiranui'd here), Akira from Virtua Fighter and many others would make for cool, but unlikely additions.
11. Kazuma Kiryu - Extremely unlikely due to obvious issues of having a "real world" Japanese criminal join a family-friendly game, but he has a very diverse move pool and would bring not only a new aesthetic but amazing music tracks with him.
12. Dante - Iconic, hilarious, full of style and great moves. Would love to have him in the game, but there are so many potential Capcom reps. The question is what moves they incorporate into his moveset, but I have no doubt that he would make a spectacular entry no matter.
13. A Resident Evil Character - Leon, Claire, Jill, etc. -Plenty of good choices for this one, though I once think the nature of the series makes it a bit less likely than usual. Not to mention that the more slow and methodical gameplay elements of the pre-RE4 titles clash with a series such a Smash.
14. Lloyd Irving - The Tales series has many characters that stand out, but Lloyd has been the most requested for a good reason. His emphasis on speed and comos also lend itself to a good moveset, though I have no doubt many would claim him to be yet another aniem swordsmen.
15. An Indie Character - Similar to my ninth suggestion, I will use this as a short sublist for characters I'd like to see, but overall I don't really think any inclusion is likely since we have so many bigger boxes to tackle and Mii costumes, assist trophies cover them pretty well:
- The Knight/Hornet: Popular, but too new. Potential for a nice agility based moveset in Hornet's case, but I can see them as Mii Swordfighter costumes in the vein of Cuphead and Sans.
- Shovel Knight: Assist trophy covers him well, but everyone's favourite amalgamation of Megaman, DuckTales NES and Super Mario Bros 3 would be a delight to have nevertheless.
-Shantae: Imho more popular stateside than anywhere else and while I like her design and abilities, she is the least likely on this sublist.
- Reimu/Marisa/: Touhou is a nightmare copyright-wise when you take a look outside of the main games - and this is arguably where Touhou really gets his charm from and a major roadblock for any inclusion.
16. Howard (Astral Chain Protagonist) - The dark horse of the pass imho: Sold very well, the Legions are a good potential gimmick and it is a young IP that is worth pushing and establishing.


Now, time for Fighter's Pass 2:

I will be rather conservative and gonna assume both Rex and a Pokemon are basically set in stone already. This leaves us with four more slots of which I think a mix of new and old would fair the best economically and allow to appeal for the widest demographic. Therefore we should have at least one classic/retro character, one huge household name and then focus more on evergreens and new IP. Plus, gimmicks shouldn't be too similar to each other.

My expectations are therefore:
1. Cinderace
2. Rex
3. Ryu Hayabusa
4. Howard (AC)
5. BotW2 Zelda
5. Dante

Very conservative, but I feel this is a good mix of both new and old as well as third and first party. However, my personal hopes are a bit more out there:

1. Urshifu
2. Ryu Hayabusa
3. Dante
4. Heihachi
5. Chosen Undead
6. An unlikely surprise pick like Kiryu Kazuma, a retro/indie char, etc.

As I said, we won't escape Pokemon but we can at least make the best out of it. As for the others: A good mix of genres with a stronger focus on legacy IPs since I think we still have many classics left that need representation. I would love to be surprised by sakurai though, which is why I left spot 6 open on purpose.

PS: Just realized I glossed over Steve, Tracer or a Fortnite representation. Just don't think they are likely at all: Blizzard's China Hearthstone debale seems to have ruffled soem feathers at Nintendo HQ, same goes for Epic and their ties to Tencent and we already got Banjo and Cuphead from MS. An Ori Mii costume or other Minecraft content are a lot likelier than the rest, though.

How likely is it that we get a third fire starter in cinderace as well as a astral chain rep when we just got the spirit event and why would they add another Zelda as DLC. And I don’t think you should call Rex ‘imminent’. A lot of these other potential characters you mention as well have next to no chance tbh. And all the points you bring up with certain characters are clearly misinformed like seemingly thinking characters need only merit to get in and think seemingly Geno probably wont get in because he doesn’t represent the entire RPG genre well enough when the only reason people consider Geno in the first place is his overwhelming popularity and nothing else

 

[SirCamp]

Man, so much talk dream passes but that is just kinda depressing for me. Mine would never happen since it’s almost entirely assist upgrades. My biggest wants right now being Isaac, Bomberman, Goemon, Farmer, Dixie Kong, Captain Syrup. And maybe Tingle because I’m a weirdo.

2 of whom are ATs. 2 of whom are mii costumes. 1 of whom is a spirit and also just honestly not happening unless warioland gets a new game with her in it. And the last of whom I am markedly less confident in post Byleth.

I’ll be fine with most any options, but I am very unlikely to get hype over pass 2 I feel. I will absolutely pop off if we do somehow get Farmer though. So here’s to hoping I guess!

 

[N3ON]

>relevant
That apparently matters now all of a sudden? Guess I missed the memo. Looks like we'll have to cut K. Rool, Banjo, Duck Hunt and ROB ladies and gents.

If you're not the token surprise/wtf character or lack popularity comparable to K. Rool and Banjo, "irrelevance" is still very much a factor that can hinder inclusion. Geno does have lots of popularity, which is why he might get in, but just because "irrelevance" isn't a rule doesn't mean it's not a thing.

 

[Calamitas]

Who is the one character everyone wants, but they know in their hearts of hearts it’ll never happen?

For me, it’s Cooking Mama.

Zael from The Last Story. Game really needs some more attention. A remake, HD remaster, Zael in Smash. . . anything would be fine, really.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

>relevant
That apparently matters now all of a sudden? Guess I missed the memo. Looks like we'll have to cut K. Rool, Banjo, Duck Hunt and ROB ladies and gents.

Only, K. Rool, to be fair.

R.O.B. and Duck Hunt are a retro and surprise pick instead. Relevancy isn't a factor.

Banjo was kept relevant through Rare Replay and hefty promotion(I don't mean just the merchandise). He was absolutely in the spotlight for years now. Relevancy isn't his issue.

Geno, however, and like Banjo in a different way, doesn't matter for relevancy. Relevancy actually was a thing specific to 1st party franchises only, and we do clearly see that in action, with Isaac still not being more than NPC stuff, but Byleth, who came out at the exact timing of the Fighter's Pass, in. Banjo's not an example of relevancy factors, mind you.

However, relevancy has proven to refer to a franchise just as much of a character. DK's franchise never stopped being relevant either, and K. Rool got in while the franchise is still hot. Same with Dark Samus. Even then, a lot of times relevancy is about figuring out what veterans to come back(that's why Wolf and Lucas were cut), whereas Ice Climbers were cut solely to being unable to work on the 3DS(and only dubiously worked on the Wii U in 8 Player Mode). A good way to put it is relevancy isn't a black/white scenario. It can be used in many variations.

Geno doesn't have relevancy issues because that's not what's being looked at for the character. Fan demand is. The real reason he wouldn't get in is either Nintendo didn't attempt to choose him among what they told Sakurai(which may not apply to Season 2), or SE simply said no. Of course, for SE, they themselves might say no due to a lack of relevancy. But that has nothing to do with Sakurai's view of it anyway.