Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ZelDan]

Next Fighters Pass:

4 picks that are from Sakurai's favorite games. All worthy of Smash but people will initially complain then get over it.
1 8th Generation Pokemon that everyone will complain about and claiming Pokemon over-representation and waste of Challenger Pack slot over.
1 fan favorite like Geno, Lloyd, Isaac, Waluigi.

There. That's it. Go home folks.

Nah, it's okay for Pokemon and Mario to get countless reps, because sales/popularity! Something we are supposed to care about apparently!

 

[I.D.]

Nah, it's okay for Pokemon and Mario to get countless reps, because sales/popularity! Something we are supposed to care about apparently!

Yeah dude, people loved Incineroar and Piranha plant

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I was temped to make a thread just for this question, but I figured that'd be a waste, so I'll ask it here: What characters would you actually want to see get the deluxe costume treatment a la Sans and Cuphead? Basically, a character that would work as an all-concealing Mii Costume, and who comes with a music track from their game.

One that immediately comes to mind is Shovel Knight (Mii Swordfighter), with the song 'Strike the Earth!'. Given his status as an Assist Trophy, it seems pretty unlikely that he'll be added as a DLC fighter, so I think this would be a good compromise.

Another one that comes to mind is Miriam (Mii Swordfighter) from Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, with the song being either 'Voyage of Promise' (the Galleon theme) or 'Luxurious Overture' (the main castle theme). Since Miriam is typically very stoic, her face wouldn't be too off-putting as a mask.

I would also love to see a costume based on Madeline (Mii Brawler) from Celeste, with the song 'First Steps' (the song for the first level, Forsaken City). I've gotten a good deal of the way through the game, and I've liked what I've played thus far, so I'd be really happy to see it get some love in Smash.

Yooka & Laylee (Mii Brawler) would be cool as well. Given how chill the music for the game is, I think that they'd have to make a more energetic remix of the main theme. The Yooka head would have Laylee sitting on top, and it'd jiggle as you move.

So, any ideas?

I really don’t think Miriam would work... like at all. For one her relatively normal looking human face would look really weird on a Mii’s body due to how Mii’s are proportioned, for two her head is smaller than the heads of Mii’s, so it wouldn’t be able to cover a Mii’s head, unless you made the mask bigger which would also look bad, and for three seeing a realistic human face not blink or emote would be very uncanny. Sans and Cuphead work, because they have big (non human) cartoony heads, they don’t typically blink, and their proportions are similar to the Mii’s.

In any case Geno is definitely the one I want to see the most. I don’t think we will see him as a regular fighter, but I think there is a good chance that he will be a Mii Gunner costume like Sans and Cuphead. They can even bundle the costume with “Beware the Forest Mushrooms” and everything, it’s too perfect.

 

[Ben Holt]

Yeah dude, people loved Incineroar and Piranha plant

I did.
But Mario is missing a ton of major characters.
Toad, Toadette, Waluigi, Paper Mario, King Boo, and of course Geno.

Also, anyone hear about this supposed new leaker, @MandyCanNot on Twitter?
Their track record seems solid so far, and they claim that Crash Bandicoot is FP6.

 

[lordvaati]

Can I get a list of all the games Sakurai supposedly "loves"? Because so many times I've seen people say "and also since Sakurai is a huge fan of/really likes X game, Y character has a decent shot". idk where y'all are getting this info, but for reals, how many favorites can a single guy have?

He likes a huge variety of games though many seem to read into this due to how Persona 5(his favorite game of 2016 and a huge inspiration in the revamped UI for Ultimate) got a character and how Terry Bogard got in with how KoF was a huge influence for him to make Dragon Fighter, which would then become Smash.

I certainly see the reasoning but it is far from an end all be all- Sakurai's favorite game of 2017 was Horizon: Zero Dawn and he had high praise for Death Stranding last year but I don't think anyone is gonna hold thier breaths for Aloy or Sam Porter Bridges to pop up in Vol.2 for obvious reasons.

I was temped to make a thread just for this question, but I figured that'd be a waste, so I'll ask it here: What characters would you actually want to see get the deluxe costume treatment a la Sans and Cuphead? Basically, a character that would work as an all-concealing Mii Costume, and who comes with a music track from their game.

One that immediately comes to mind is Shovel Knight (Mii Swordfighter), with the song 'Strike the Earth!'. Given his status as an Assist Trophy, it seems pretty unlikely that he'll be added as a DLC fighter, so I think this would be a good compromise.

Another one that comes to mind is Miriam (Mii Swordfighter) from Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, with the song being either 'Voyage of Promise' (the Galleon theme) or 'Luxurious Overture' (the main castle theme). Since Miriam is typically very stoic, her face wouldn't be too off-putting as a mask.

I would also love to see a costume based on Madeline (Mii Brawler) from Celeste, with the song 'First Steps' (the song for the first level, Forsaken City). I've gotten a good deal of the way through the game, and I've liked what I've played thus far, so I'd be really happy to see it get some love in Smash.

Yooka & Laylee (Mii Brawler) would be cool as well. Given how chill the music for the game is, I think that they'd have to make a more energetic remix of the main theme. The Yooka head would have Laylee sitting on top, and it'd jiggle as you move.

So, any ideas?

Top candidates that come to mind are Quote as a Gunner and Steve(?) as a Swordfighter.

 

[DevaAshera]

I did.
But Mario is missing a ton of major characters.
Toad, Toadette, Waluigi, Paper Mario, King Boo, and of course Geno.

I wouldn't really call those 'major' characters.
Toad is the closest and he's represented in Peach & Daisy's moveset (though I think Toadette should have been used in Daisy's instead of Blue Toad). I also feel Toadette would be a costume for Toad and that neither of them would really offer much moveset-wise that isn't already covered by Peach or Mario/Luigi.
Waluigi is a side character in spin-off titles..even though I feel like he should have been added to the Wario series ages ago..but not exactly a 'major' character..I mean, Nintendo even left him out of Mario Kart 7..as dumb as that was.
Paper Mario would be fun moveset-wise, though he's still a side-series character and is, essentially, just Mario character-wise, so not really a major character (but one that would be quite fun).
King Boo is one I'd love since I adore the Luigi's Mansion series, he'd be a fun character, definitely, though still not a major character..Nintendo can't even seem to use THE King Boo in their spin-off games..they keep using generic Boo in a Crown and calling it King Boo..It wasn't until Mario Kart Tour that King Boo from Luigi's Mansion was actually used in something else (and it annoys me how they keep using that generic Boo with a Crown..gimme the real King Boo!)
Geno is far from Major. He appeared as a primary character, yes, but in a spin-off game where he had only 1 notable appearance, being said game. Super Mario RPG is the best Mario game (or at least my favorite) but Geno isn't a Major Mario Character.

Not against the characters appearing at all, in fact, I'm a fan of each of them (the only Mario character I hate is Bowser Jr..but I accept his inclusion in Smash due to his major character status..)..its just that, aside from Toad and maybe King Boo, none of them are really major characters..heck, Toadette only had appearances in spin-offs and cameos in main series games until she appeared in Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe.
I also fear that Sakurai only wants to pull from the main series (or that its some sort of mandate from Miyamoto..I mean, the man did demand all original characters in Paper Mario be replaced by generic main series characters..I could see him demanding the same from the Smash Bros. roster of playable Mario characters..so for all we know, any series Miyamoto is in charge of could be why we don't get newcomers from them..but that's just speculation due to how Miyamoto acts with the Mario series half the time these days..)

 

[TheYungLink]

I was temped to make a thread just for this question, but I figured that'd be a waste, so I'll ask it here: What characters would you actually want to see get the deluxe costume treatment a la Sans and Cuphead? Basically, a character that would work as an all-concealing Mii Costume, and who comes with a music track from their game.

One that immediately comes to mind is Shovel Knight (Mii Swordfighter), with the song 'Strike the Earth!'. Given his status as an Assist Trophy, it seems pretty unlikely that he'll be added as a DLC fighter, so I think this would be a good compromise.

Another one that comes to mind is Miriam (Mii Swordfighter) from Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, with the song being either 'Voyage of Promise' (the Galleon theme) or 'Luxurious Overture' (the main castle theme). Since Miriam is typically very stoic, her face wouldn't be too off-putting as a mask.

I would also love to see a costume based on Madeline (Mii Brawler) from Celeste, with the song 'First Steps' (the song for the first level, Forsaken City). I've gotten a good deal of the way through the game, and I've liked what I've played thus far, so I'd be really happy to see it get some love in Smash.

Yooka & Laylee (Mii Brawler) would be cool as well. Given how chill the music for the game is, I think that they'd have to make a more energetic remix of the main theme. The Yooka head would have Laylee sitting on top, and it'd jiggle as you move.

So, any ideas?

The Knight from Hollow Knight would be a perfect deluxe Mii Costume. They never emote or speak at all so it's perfect. Unlike Sans or Cuphead, they'd be a Mii Swordfighter.

The track they come with would be a remixed medley of Hollow Knight music by Christopher Larkin or a rip of "Hornet", since the song uses a lively variation of the main leitmotif of the game that would fit perfectly in Smash. "Nightmare King Grimm" would be cool but I didn't pick it because I don't associate it with The Knight themselves.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Using the list on the official site, I'm trying to predict the chance each existing franchise has to get a new fighter in pass 2 (obviously IMO).

Spoiler: long post

-Super Mario
0% - I doubt they will add anyone, and they already added Piranha Plant. Prof. E. Gadd would be cool but I don't see him happening anytime soon considering the selection criteria that has been applied so far. I'm not considering Geno as a Mario character, so it's ininfluent in this list.

-Donkey Kong
10% - There's Dixie but we're not sure if spirits deconfirm or not yet... it got K Rool already though

-the legend of Zelda
30% - I doubt they will add one offs and the recurring characters are already all there in multiple versions. Classic Ganon would make sense but I don't see it as likely. Maybe something from Breath of the Wild 2 to promote the game? But it's a bit unlikely.

-Metroid
5% - Unless Sylux gets a massively epic super important role in Metroid Prime 4 and becomes one of the faces of the franchise from now on, I doubt he's going to become a fighter, simply because aside of some obscure cliffhangers hidden in some games, he is just a guy who appeared in a spin-off along with many others similar to him. I don't see anyone else as likely. By the way, the series already got its newcomer in Ultimate, Ridley.

-Yoshi
1% - Kamek and Baby Bros are the only options IMO. Maybe Poochy, but I see it more as assist trophy material than as a full fighter, simply because he seems too limited in what he can do. Kamek is already a stage gimmick in the NSMBU stage and you can't turn him off because it's basically the stage itself (the transition happens because of Kamek). Baby Bros are possible too and would be funny, but like for E. Gadd, I just don't see this happening.

-Kirby
80% - I may be biased, but Kirby is one of the biggest ongoing franchises of Nintendo that gets new games every 1 or 2 years, and it has got nothing in Smash since Brawl. I suspect one of the few first party characters in the second pass is a Kirby character. The problem is who. My hope is for Adeleine, obviously, but technically there are many options avaliable (unless spirits deconfirm). In 2 years the next Kirby game will be announced for sure (maybe even at this E3 or even earlier), and if it features a new character, it can even be the new character of that game.

-Star Fox
1% - Starfox has some interesting characters still not in Smash, but I doubt we'll see anyone in this pass, unless a new game with a major new character comes... but after the not so successful Star Fox Zero, I don't see this happening soon (unless Miyamoto really wants to push Star Fox at any cost). Krystal is stuck as assist trophy too.

-Pokémon
30% - It's one of those series that gets new characters each game, so it's natural to think it will recieve a newcomer... but I think Incineroar already fulfilled that, I think it's unlikely to get a new one... but not impossible, they may still want to promote a new game in 2 years from now.

-Earthbound
?% - I would say 0%, it's a dead series with 2 reps already, most characters appeared in Smash already in one way or another... but I think Sakurai really loves it, so who knows. The chances are pretty low by the way, but since they involve the unpredictability of Sakurai, I can't say for sure a precise number.

-F-Zero
0% - Dead franchise that despite having many characters, has always been skipped when it comes to newcomers. I don't see a F-Zero character in Smash anytime soon unless Nintendo releases a new game within 2 years, something that's most likely not happening.

-Ice Climber
0% - Copy-paste from F-Zero, except it has only 2 characters and they are already in.

-Fire Emblem
0% - Sakurai is aware that Smash fans are annoyed by more Fire Emblem. He even made some references to this during the presentation, before the trailer and during it (the too many swordies part). He added one already, plus 1 echo in the base game... unless he's insanely biased for real, I don't see more Fire Emblem coming in this Smash.

-Game & Watch
0% - Mr Game & Watch is enough already.

-Kid Icarus
10% - Uprising is old and there are no known plans to continue the series anytime soon. There are some possible characters, but I doubt they will be added, if Sakurai was really interested in doing it, it would have happend in Smash 4 already. But I keep this at 10% because Uprising is still a game made by Sakurai.

-Wario Ware
0% - No way. There is a fun set of crazy characters in this series, but I think Sakurai considers it already represented well enough by Wario himself, and he doesn't seem interested in adding anyone else soon.

-tactical espionage action Metal Gear Solid
?% - I'm not familiar enough with this series to leave an opinion on this. Probably not though, because he'd rather add a character from a different Konami franchise, or a character from a differetn company completely.

-Sonic the Hedgehog
15% - not likely, but with an hipotetical announcement of a new game, and the movie, the franchise is going to stay relevant for a while, so a newcomer is possible. Regardless, I think that third parties will mostly focus on getting new franchises rather than putting more reps of already represented ones.

-Pikmin
0% - Unless a new game comes and a new important character is added to the cast, someone who becomes a second face of the franchise after Olimar, I don't see this happening.

-R.O.B.
0% - dead franchise, I don't see the professor being added, R.O.B. itself is enough already.

-welcome to Animal Crossing
0% - The new game is coming, and all. But Isabelle has just been added in the base roster, and there's nothing much you can do anymore unless you add a gimmick character like Mr Resetti or K.K. Slider, which I don't see Sakurai adding as fighters (isabelle is already a semiclone of Villager). It seems that Tom Nook is not going to join smash soon aside of appearing in final smashes.

-Mega Man
0% - I don't think we will get any, not for a specific reason, I just feel like they'd rather put Capcom characters from a different franchise if anything.

-Wii Fit
0% - Miis are already in as their own thing and the balance board is not going to become a fighter

-Punch-Out!!
0% - The series seems too minor to get a newcomer... even with the Wii revival, it's still not one of the big Nintendo series, and no new games have been released after that one. I would call it a dead franchise like F-Zero and Earthbound.

-Mii()
0% - We're not getting a new Mii class. Mii costumes sure, but they don't count as newcomers.

-Pac-Man
0% - Despite Ms. Pacman would be a cool echo and the ghosts could be a creative concepts as a single character, we're almost certainly not getting any of that. We don't even have Pac-Maze anymore...

-Xenoblade Chronicles
0% - Sakurai made up excuses to not put the protagonists of the latest game in Smash, probably he (or Nintendo) doesn't want to. Three Houses has been released later and it still got a newcomer, while the Xenoblade one was too late.

-Duck Hunt
0% - See Ice Climber.

-Street Fighter
90% - Because if you think about it, he added an echo, not a full fighter... and it's even one of those echoes with more effort put in (the same thing that happend for Fire Emblem). Part of Incineroar's moveset is also inspired by a Street Fighter character, it means that Sakurai is a big fan of the series and won't lose the chance to put someone new from it in the game.
There are a couple of things against against this possibility: if spirits deconfirm... I don't know how many SF spirits there are in the game already and if there are major characters without one. The other way we're not getting a new Street Fighter character is if Sakurai makes no difference between SF and Fatal Fury, and the character I'm speculating is in his eyes Terry already.

-Final Fantasy VII
0% - or Final Fantasy in general. We got Dragon Quest already... unless he puts Sephiroth in, I doubt we'll get more FF stuff, if anything some other popular Square properties such as Tomb Raider or others.

-Bayonetta 2
0% - Like for Cloud, I think this is one of those series that will stay represented by only one character, the protagonist.

-Splatoon
0% - Inkling is already one of the biggest newcomer of Smash Ultimate, there's no need to add anyone else. Even if they added someone, there's not much choice... Dj Octavio maybe? But it's probably too niche. Octoling works better as an echo.

-Castlevania
0% - The franchise already got lots of content in the base game.

-P5 Persona 5
0% - I doubt they will put 2 DLCs from the same franchise at the same time... remember that Fighter Pass 1 is stil up.

-Dragon Quest XI echoes of an elusive age definitive edition S
0% - Same as Persona.

-Banjo--Kazooie
0% - Same as Persona and DQ.

-Fatal Fury
0% - Same as Persona, DQ and Banjo.

So, my prediction is:

Street Fighter - 90%*
Kirby - 80%
Zelda - 30%
Pokémon - 30%
Sonic - 15%
Donkey Kong - 10%
Kid Icarus - 10%
Metroid - 5%
Yoshi - 1%
Starfox - 1%
Earthbound - ? (if makes it in, it'd be a Sakurai pick, so, unpredictable)
Metal Gear - ? (I don't know but probably 0%)

According to this list, I would say that we're almost certainly getting a Street Fighter and a Kirby character.
I think we're getting only one or two first parties (one of which is likely from Kirby, the other would probaby be a promotional pick) and that the majority of the pass will be new third party franchises as always.

*but there are a couple of points against this, if spirits deconfirm and/or if Terry is already the "street fighter" character in the eyes of Sakurai.

See the spoiler for explanations, and please be respectful, this is just my opinion and likely wrong.

 

[ManlyPlant]

I don't have the time or effort to make an image so I'mma just say em

A Breath of Fire rep: I want capcom to actually show more love to this franchise that gets so little. It could be one of the Ryu's or one of the Nina's. (Because there is one for each entry in the series) But I did have a fun idea of like having em call in some of their other party members for some of their moves.

Shanoa (Castlevania): I like castlevania, I like Order of Ecclesia, I like her, You have a character that oozes moveset potential due to their game giving them so much to work with, Rapiers, hammers, scythes, elemental magic, Giant rock fists.

Miriam (Bloodstained): Hey Bloodstained is neat. and like Shanoa she also has a whole lot of moves with her with huge potential due to the enormous library of weapons and shards she has open to her.

Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear): I won't lie I like traditional fighters a lot more than I do smash. But would I turn down an oppritunity to see how they could adapt another characters abilities into a game? Nah, dude is sick, comes with sick moves, and sick music

KOS-MOS (Xenosaga): Hey look it's another one of those characters that has an enormous set of potential options that you could make a whole load of different movesets and not overlap too much. Either way she cute and comes with neat music so thats a nice bonus. Preferably her v4 design though

Poochy (Yoshi): Hey this one is the odd one out. It's a cute dog that doesn't have too much in terms of abilities but is so weird and a common appearance within yoshi games that I feel it would be neat to have em in.

HONORABLE MENTIONS: They're all capcom characters because wow they have all the good ones it seems to me.
Dante (Devil May Cry): Everyone likes this guy, fun games, fun moveset options, didn't make my list due to my extreme thirst for Breath of Fire. Could use either 3 or 5 Dante. Or just go for like a weird composite Dante that includes a lot of weapons from each game.

Firebrand (Demons Crest): A weird pick but having him represent demons crest and constantly switch between all the different forms he has for different moves seems like a fun idea to me. Didn't make it for the same reason as before, but also because I feel like he'd be a hated inclusion in... yet another fighting game.

Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney): Yeah I love this guy, but I don't love him as much as what made the cut.

G (Street Fighter): Look I know this might actually be the weirdest one. Crazy molten gold president with insane moveset and potential to be an absolutely toxic robbery character in another game? Yeah I'd be down. But nobody else would. Lotta cowards in this world. Plus potential for SF Music that isn't from just SF2

 

[NintenRob]

At this point, I think King Boo has earned the right to be called a major Mario character, even if his design is a little inconsistent. He makes constant appearance and has cemented himself as Luigi's arch enemy.


Luigi's Arch Enemy is no small feat

 

[Zinith]

As a reminder it's Yoshi's 30th anniversary this year, so keep that in mind when comes to likelihood...

 

[Chaosmaster8753]

On the subject of the remaining Smash 4 Mii Fighters costumes, can we agree that they alone do not confirm or deconfirm whether a company they came from will show up in Fighter Pass 2?

 

[Curious Villager]

As a reminder it's Yoshi's 30th anniversary this year, so keep that in mind when comes to likelihood...

When was the last time an anniversary resulted in a newcomer? Other than maybe Little Mac I suppose...

 

[Evil Trapezium]

How would you react if this was how the fighter's pass turned out?
View attachment 258810

Spoiler

The common thread is that these are my three most wanted first and third parties.

After what we got from the Fighters Pass, pretty disappointing, not going to lie.

With everyone posting potential Fighters Passes right now, I decided to go back to the predictions I posted on Friday and make a change (since I was admittedly grasping for reasons for one of the characters)...

The last version of this had Susie from Deltarune, with the reasoning being that she would be a promotional pick for a game that wasn't out yet by the time Fighters Pass 2 was finalized (similar to Byleth being picked for the first Fighters Pass before Fire Emblem: Three Houses was released). Since it was made clear that I was reaching, I'm changing my Fighters Pass 2 prediction a bit and instead going with a more "reasonable" pick - Sol Badguy from Guilty Gear, serving as promotion for the currently upcoming Guilty Gear -STRIVE-, and who would also fit the recent speculation I've seen of Fighters Pass 2 having a lower budget and thus going for "lesser known" third party characters. I also think Sol and Fighter Pass 2 in general will follow the pattern of the "last" DLC character being divisive and controversial, in this case Sol (assuming the entire above image is accurate and we also get Ryu Hayabusa and Heihachi) leading to claims that Smash has "too many fighting game characters".

What would your reaction be if the above were the characters (and Mii Fighter costumes) we were getting?

Lots of Sword Fighters for the fans to be happy but I think this pass is overall okay. Ryu Hayabusa, Phoenix Wright and Sol Badguy are decent picks while Heihachi, Rex & Pyra and Lloyd are pretty meh. Really lacking on the Mii Gunner costumes though.

 

[Zinith]

When was the last time an anniversary resulted in a newcomer? Other than maybe Little Mac I suppose...

See, once you bring up an explicit example of it happening, there's precedent now. It's one thing to expect a guarantee that a character is coming due to an anniversary, but that's not what I did. I just merely suggested it was a slight notch in a particular character's likelihood and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Lenidem]

As a reminder it's Yoshi's 30th anniversary this year, so keep that in mind when comes to likelihood...

Yeah, I think it's pretty likely for Yoshi to be playable, it makes sense.

At this point, I think King Boo has earned the right to be called a major Mario character, even if his design is a little inconsistent. He makes constant appearance and has cemented himself as Luigi's arch enemy.


Luigi's Arch Enemy is no small feat

Nah, I vote professor E. Gadd!!

 

[Curious Villager]

See, once you bring up an explicit example of it happening, there's precedent now. It's one thing to expect a guarantee that a character is coming due to an anniversary, but that's not what I did. I just merely suggested it was a slight notch in a particular character's likelihood and there's nothing wrong with that.

Um, sure if you say so...

 

[NintenRob]

Yeah, I think it's pretty likely for Yoshi to be playable, it makes sense.

Nah, I vote professor E. Gadd!!

I'm not sure what you're voting for but I think King Boo objectively outranks E Gadd.

Spoiler

He is a King after all

 

[Diddy Kong]

I do think a Zelda character is highly likely to be a newcomer. As said before, after Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem, Zelda is still the biggest franchise in terms of characters and could really, REALLY use a newcomer. We basically already got a revamped main Link, and the return of a older Link, but I don't think that's enough. Since we haven't seen anything from BotW2 besides the first trailer yet, I'll refrain from stating a specific character to be the new Zelda fighter. But I do think it's likely to happen.

 

[Ben Holt]

I do think a Zelda character is highly likely to be a newcomer. As said before, after Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem, Zelda is still the biggest franchise in terms of characters and could really, REALLY use a newcomer. We basically already got a revamped main Link, and the return of a older Link, but I don't think that's enough. Since we haven't seen anything from BotW2 besides the first trailer yet, I'll refrain from stating a specific character to be the new Zelda fighter. But I do think it's likely to happen.

Impa or bust.
Now to contradict myself immediately. I also wouldn't mind Midna + Wolf Link. I know that would technically make four Links, but... I quite frankly don't give a ****.

 

[YoshiandToad]

At this point, I think King Boo has earned the right to be called a major Mario character, even if his design is a little inconsistent. He makes constant appearance and has cemented himself as Luigi's arch enemy.


Luigi's Arch Enemy is no small feat

Whilst I agree with King Boo being a relatively large Mario character now, I find it weird that Kamek has never really been a part of the core Mario gang despite being Yoshi's arch enemy, the main antagonist of the Yoshi franchise and appearing regularly in the New Super Mario series of games. He's just been weirdly ignored by Nintendo for Mario spinoffs until very very recently.

Incidentally I don't think we'll get a Yoshi character for the anniversary because...well...look at how the Yoshi series is treated for the most part in Smash. It gets stages galore but that's about it.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

When was the last time an anniversary resulted in a newcomer? Other than maybe Little Mac I suppose...

This year with 2B coming in for NieR's 10th anniversary. Please Sakurai.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

See, once you bring up an explicit example of it happening, there's precedent now. It's one thing to expect a guarantee that a character is coming due to an anniversary, but that's not what I did. I just merely suggested it was a slight notch in a particular character's likelihood and there's nothing wrong with that.

Man I remember when Banjo & Kazooie were going to be announced at the 2018 game awards for their 20th anniversary. Also remember when KOS-MOS was announced as Fighter 6 for Xenosaga's 17th anniversary? How about when Porky was announced to be a fighter for Earthbound's 30th anniversary?

Also I think Waluigi will be announced for Smash at E3 2020 to coincide with Mario Tennis' 20th anniversary!

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I do think a Zelda character is highly likely to be a newcomer. As said before, after Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem, Zelda is still the biggest franchise in terms of characters and could really, REALLY use a newcomer. We basically already got a revamped main Link, and the return of a older Link, but I don't think that's enough. Since we haven't seen anything from BotW2 besides the first trailer yet, I'll refrain from stating a specific character to be the new Zelda fighter. But I do think it's likely to happen.

I would agree with you, but the real problem is who. Most of the requestesd characters can't be in for a reason or another, there aren't many option left.
That's why I said only 30% of chance, because while it would make a lot of sense, there is still a problem of what character could become the newcomer.
Maybe a new character from BotW2.

Classic Ganon is a no brainer but for some reason both the developers and the fanbase don't seem to consider it as a serious option, sadly.

 

[NintenRob]

Whilst I agree with King Boo being a relatively large Mario character now, I find it weird that Kamek has never really been a part of the core Mario gang despite being Yoshi's arch enemy, the main antagonist of the Yoshi franchise and appearing regularly in the New Super Mario series of games. He's just been weirdly ignored by Nintendo for Mario spinoffs until very very recently.

Incidentally I don't think we'll get a Yoshi character for the anniversary because...well...look at how the Yoshi series is treated for the most part in Smash. It gets stages galore but that's about it.

Disclaimer, I really like Kamek, I want him in more things. But can you really call him Yoshi's arch enemy? Isn't it a different Yoshi in most Yoshi games? Just doesn't feel personal enough to be called arch enemy.


He's still cool though

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Disclaimer, I really like Kamek, I want him in more things. But can you really call him Yoshi's arch enemy? Isn't it a different Yoshi in most Yoshi games? Just doesn't feel personal enough to be called arch enemy.


He's still cool though

Kamek is the main antagonist in the Yoshi's Island games, regardless of if the yoshi you're playing as is the same or another.
When you lose the baby, Kamek's magikoopas come to kidnap him, Kamek is the one who talks with you through the entire game and who makes the story progress, since Yoshi is a passive protagonist. Kamek is a random enemy in the Mario franchise, but it's a major character in the Yoshi spin-off, and since in Smash Yoshi is in as part of the "Yoshi" franchise, Kamek would make sense as a newcomer. Though the point is that there's no difference visually between the random Kamek you find in some Mario levels, and the Kamek character from Yoshi. Probably it's not a big issue considering that Yoshi is a random power-up in Mario World and some other games while a main character in his own spin offs, and Piranha Plant, but it becomes a problem when there's a stage all about Kamek doing stuff, and you theorically can't have him both as playable and as a stage element during the same fight. You can with Duck Hunt only because the one in the background is made of huge pixels.

 

[Zinith]

Kamek is the main antagonist in the Yoshi's Island games, regardless of if the yoshi you're playing as is the same or another.
When you lose the baby, Kamek's magikoopas come to kidnap him, Kamek is the one who talks with you through the entire game and who makes the story progress, since Yoshi is a passive protagonist. Kamek is a random enemy in the Mario franchise, but it's a major character in the Yoshi spin-off, and since in Smash Yoshi is in as part of the "Yoshi" franchise, Kamek would make sense as a newcomer. Though the point is that there's no difference visually between the random Kamek you find in some Mario levels, and the Kamek character from Yoshi. Probably it's not a big issue considering that Yoshi is a random power-up in Mario World and some other games while a main character in his own spin offs, and Piranha Plant, but it becomes a problem when there's a stage all about Kamek doing stuff, and you theorically can't have him both as playable and as a stage element during the same fight. You can with Duck Hunt only because the one in the background is made of huge pixels.

Actually those aren't Magikoopas that kidnap Baby Mario, it's Toadies...

And about that "can't be in two places at once" thing, tell that to Chrom

 

[Calamitas]

As a reminder it's Yoshi's 30th anniversary this year, so keep that in mind when comes to likelihood...

Yeah, just like how the Mother series anniversary and it being the year of the pig gave us Porky as a part of the Fighter Pass!

Oh, wait.

 

[I.D.]

Don't think a Zelda character is particularly likely. Going by historical precedent, it seems Sakurai is satisfied with the current Zelda roster.

 

[Cadillac]

This is random, but I showed my brother a picture of Travis Touchdown and he says that he looks like older Dib Membrane

 

[Zinith]

Um, sure if you say so...

Man I remember when Banjo & Kazooie were going to be announced at the 2018 game awards for their 20th anniversary. Also remember when KOS-MOS was announced as Fighter 6 for Xenosaga's 17th anniversary? How about when Porky was announced to be a fighter for Earthbound's 30th anniversary?

Also I think Waluigi will be announced for Smash at E3 2020 to coincide with Mario Tennis' 20th anniversary!

Yeah, just like how the Mother series anniversary and it being the year of the pig gave us Porky as a part of the Fighter Pass!

Oh, wait.

This is borderline Pavlovian. All I did was say "keep it in mind" and you're acting like I made an unironic hype post

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Actually those aren't Magikoopas that kidnap Baby Mario, it's Toadies...

And about that "can't be in two places at once" thing, tell that to Chrom

My bad... in fact, they're called Magikoopas in the European version of most games... it's a translation issue similar to how Bowser is Koopa in Japan while in occident Koopa is the basic turtle enemy.

Anyway the thing of characters appearing in multiple roles at the same time seems to be an issue since they programmed workarounds in some stages (such as the Toon Link thing in the Spirit Tracks stage), and not an issue in other situations. Maybe in final smashes it's ok when the final smash is a cutscene, because there's no interaction and the player can't be confused? I don't know.

 

[Lenidem]

I would agree with you, but the real problem is who.

Easy. Just take the three best 3D Zelda games: Ocarina is already represented by Young Link, Sheik and Ganondorf. Breath of the Wild is represented by Link. That leaves us with Majora, which has to be represented by Skull Kid. This is 100% true and objective.

I'm not sure what you're voting for but I think King Boo objectively outranks E Gadd.

Spoiler

He is a King after all

Yeah, but E. Gadd is a professor, so he's more cleverer.

 

[Zinith]

My bad... in fact, they're called Magikoopas in the European version of most games... it's a translation issue similar to how Bowser is Koopa in Japan while in occident Koopa is the basic turtle enemy.

Anyway the thing of characters appearing in multiple roles at the same time seems to be an issue since they programmed workarounds in some stages (such as the Toon Link thing in the Spirit Tracks stage), and not an issue in other situations. Maybe in final smashes it's ok when the final smash is a cutscene, because there's no interaction and the player can't be confused? I don't know.

I'm pretty sure other players can interact during Robin's Final Smash. I'd think it'd be more of the game itself being confused so usually there'd be slight adjustments to models (i.e. Two Luigis in Super Mario Galaxy)

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Easy. Just take the three best 3D Zelda games: Ocarina is already represented by Young Link, Sheik and Ganondorf. Breath of the Wild is represented by Link. That leaves us with Majora, which has to be represented by Skull Kid. This is 100% true and objective.

Yeah, but E. Gadd is a professor, so he's more cleverer.

Sadly Skull Kid is already an assist trophy though.... I really don't think assist trophy promotions will happen in the same game (maybe in the sequel).

I prefer E. Gadd over King Boo as well... in fact E. Gadd never gets enough love.

 

[Will]

FE fans dont even like nearly that much roy.

hes an ass unit in his own game do you blame me

 

[Cadillac]

People are posting their wishlists here it seems, so I'm gonna post mine:

1. Isaac
2. Hornet
3. Lloyd
4. Arle?
5. The dude from Castlevania who actually uses a gun
6. Sora?

 

[I.D.]

5. The dude from Castlevania who actually uses a gun

wow, a genuine fan of Henry from Castlevania Legacy of Darkness

 

[Lamperouge]

hes an ass unit in his own game do you blame me

Roy can seize a mean throne, at least...

 

[TechPowah]

All i gotta say on Byleth is
I've no attachment to FE outside of Smash, i've only played tiny portions of both GBA and Fates
Byleth themselves are a big fat meh to me as a character choice, outside of the nifty character designs

however, their moveset is almost exactly how I wanted a Monster Hunter to play, except there's no equivalent to a Barrel Bomb

so even though it's more of a function-over-form reaction, Blep is alright with me, can't wait to try them out
unless an ACTUAL Monster Hunter shows up in season 2, anyway

also Garreg Mach is probably the nicest looking DLC stage after Yggy, and IMO it looks to be the most fun cause I love tour stages