Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ProfPeanut]

I think you're one retroactive female Fighters Pass character short of perfect balance.

At any rate, Fighters Pass was finalized last year, and Hat in Time has yet to come out this year. Add to that the absence of any significant Japanese attention to this game, and it just seems unlikely.

(It'd be pretty wild if it actually happened, but the timing would still be terrible unless we got maybe 3-4 more Western guest characters).

 

[SKX31]

Y'know this argument that "Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are the core of the Zelda series therefore that's all Smash needs" falls flat when we got frikkin Pirahna Plant on the roster. Y'know an 'assist trophy tier' character. Sure Pirahna Plant isn't exactly a one-off character but he's literally just a Pirahna Plant.

Nintendo - and Sakurai - could be having a major roadblock: choosing which other major Zelda character though. Questions such as "Is this AT or character material?" Wouldn't be surprised if that's why they've been kicking that can down the road since Brawl at least. Doesn't help that once-very popular characters like Vaati got overshadowed and Aghanim... his name is overall more famous as a not-seen NPC in Dota 2 nowadays. Not gonna lie.

I don't agree with Nintendo's choice though, primarily because: with each can kick there's likely a new Zelda game. And new significant characters that could - but likely won't - join the roster. Since Brawl we've seen Ghirahim, the BotW cast and HW's Cia / Lana created and characters like Skull Kid rise. It's much more crowded than it was in Brawl, and that's a shame since a non-Triforce wielder could offer new character opportunities.

Sure, deep down the reason is rooted in Nintendo's (and Miyamoto's) "new ways to play is more important than characters" mantra, but that's the flipside of said mantra. Couldn't old characters like lets say Nabooru reappear - perhaps changed a bit - in one other game? That's not getting into the timeline mess either.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't see a non-Triforce wielder unless Nintendo changes how they view them, or one such character rises from within the dev team.

 

[osby]

There's still the additional DLC assuming this would happen which I don't think it will anyways.

Also female rep (Besides Kazooie) in that pass. As Thanos would quote it.

"Perfectly balanced. As all things should be".

We need more than a few girls for it to be perfectly balanced.

Jokes aside, Hat in Time is a pretty small fish, even compared to Fatal Fury and Banjo-Kazooie. It's not like there aren't multiple female character who come from better acclaimed and more successful games around.

Though, out of curiosity: How Hat Kid would work in Smash. I've never played the games, but she looks like a fun character.

 

[Luminario]

I think my biggest gripe with Corrin wasn't even "too much FE" or "promotional character", but rather that I went from "HOLY ****, HE TURNS INTO A DRAGON!? That's actually pretty cool!" to "Oh, it's just some body parts for some attacks and their down B counter, then it's back to being a swordsman".

I do still wonder how Corrin would have been received if they just... took out the sword. Between the dragon form, having a lance on each arm and leg, the wings which tbh are terribly underutilized, and even the tail which doesn't get used at all, the sword isn't really necessary beyond the fsmash chainsaw gimmick. All of their throws and smash attacks could have used the pure dragon form with all other attacks using the hybrid forms.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't really like the idea of Hat Kid being our first indie character sure they're fine and they aren't necessarily a bad choice but there's better choices out there. Shovel Knight and Sans/Frisk are the two I would go for first as they're kinda the faces of indies at this point and Shantae could be really good too since she and her franchise has history with Nintendo dating back to the GBC.

Hat Kid doesn't really have any of that and her game just came out this year so even if she did get in which I don't think she will she'd have to be a Post-FP character as the Fighters Pass was almost certainly planned alongside or shortly after the base game.

 

[Ovaltine]

In terms of the Zelda stuff, while I sure wouldn't expect her to ever make the cut (maybe if the LA remake came out before Ultimate's project plan was finalized)...

Am I the only one who thinks Marin would be a cool addition? Between LA's items and pals, as well as her arsenal in Hyrule Warriors, I think she'd have potential to be unique... plus she's adorable! I always liked Marin more than Malon and even Zelda herself...

 

[osby]

Questions such as "Is this AT or character material?"

But this isn't how it works at all. Stuff like Assist Trophies are only selected once initial planning is done and playable characters are decided. It's not like Sakurai takes a list and distributes characters into two categories.

I'm tired of Zelda talk, but I can say this much: We probably didn't get a Zelda newcomer because Zelda fandom couldn't decide which character should be THE NON-TRIFORCE WIELDER REP in ten years. None of the oh-so-iconic-and-popular one-offs have managed to gather a consistently large support.

In most cases, Sakurai and Nintendo chooses characters, not quotas and Zelda fandom isn't particularly good at providing them the latter.

 

[Deleted member]

Say that Tweet from yesterday was right? How would you guys be overall with this Season Pass if Hat Kid was DLC fighter 5?

At the same time though this feels like a character I could see Sakurai pulling off and nobody fans would had expected likeand Terry.

Screw business sense. I'd treasure this ****.

 

[SKX31]

But this isn't how it works at all. Stuff like Assist Trophies are only selected once initial planning is done and playable characters are decided. It's not like Sakurai takes a list and distributes characters into two categories.

I'm tired of Zelda talk, but I can say this much: We probably didn't get a Zelda newcomer because Zelda fandom couldn't decide which character should be THE NON-TRIFORCE WIELDER REP in ten years. None of the oh-so-iconic-and-popular one-offs have managed to gather a consistently large support.

In most cases, Sakurai and Nintendo chooses characters, not quotas and Zelda fandom isn't particularly good at providing them the latter.

Was kinda getting to that, but didn't put all the pieces together myself - with how split the fanbase was and has increasingly become since. My intent with that question was not to simply "distribute characters into two categories", I wanted to hint at what you spelled out. Like does a non-Triforce wielder stand out amongst the rest? And get that character slot? And Nintendo's answer is "not at all" - although I do believe that's a pitfall Nintendo could have avoided - and not worsened - by being more consistent with their characters.

I made a mistake in not clarifying and following up on that.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Say that Tweet from yesterday was right? How would you guys be overall with this Season Pass if Hat Kid was DLC fighter 5?

At the same time though this feels like a character I could see Sakurai pulling off and nobody fans would had expected likeand Terry.

A Hat in Time doesn't feel that important in the grand scheme of things so I don't think Hat Kid should get in. Maybe when every all the big Indies are in play I can get behind the idea

 

[Aetheri]

But this isn't how it works at all. Stuff like Assist Trophies are only selected once initial planning is done and playable characters are decided. It's not like Sakurai takes a list and distributes characters into two categories.

I'm tired of Zelda talk, but I can say this much: We probably didn't get a Zelda newcomer because Zelda fandom couldn't decide which character should be THE NON-TRIFORCE WIELDER REP in ten years. None of the oh-so-iconic-and-popular one-offs have managed to gather a consistently large support.

In most cases, Sakurai and Nintendo chooses characters, not quotas and Zelda fandom isn't particularly good at providing them the latter.

Well as much as some people may not realize the Smash fanbase isn't a monolith and while at times it may act like a hivemind every person has their own preference. There are a decent amount of fan-favourite characters that cover several games that could potentially fill the 'zelda quota' but its not like the fanbase as a whole has decided 'k, Impa will come first, then Midna, then Skull Kid, etc etc'

Unlike series like DK and Metroid, there were at least two clear standouts each with other less popular characters having more niche support.

 

[Deleted member]

Though, out of curiosity: How Hat Kid would work in Smash. I've never played the games, but she looks like a fun character.

She would do

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Let's say hypothetically there was a Fighter's Pass featuring characters who are currently in Ultimate as assist trophies. With the only "rule" being one character per series, who would you want/think are going to be the 5 fighters?

For me I'd want:
-Midna (gee no one saw this coming)
-Bomberman
-Krystal
-Spring Man
-Shovel Knight

Who I think Nintendo would go with:
-Waluigi
-Spring Man
-Isaac
-Skull Kid
-Shadow

Release Order:

1. Skull Kid
2. Alucard
3. Isaac
4. Bomberman
5. Takamaru

I don't want Waluigi in until he has a unique moveset.

 

[KatKit]

On the subject of Fire Emblem... You know who's playable in Awakening, Heroes (a main character, baby!), Fates, Warriors, and Three Houses? The lovable game guide/NPC/recruit/commander/merchant/recurring character who has also been in almost every other Fire Emblem I didn't name earlier, and will most likely be featured in future entries. She's one of the only characters who can always get away with being DLC in her home series because making money is her shtick, so why not Smash one day? She can show moves from the Merchant, Trickster/Assassin, Bow Knight/Sniper, Sage/Dark Knight, classes into her moveset. Or any and everything, to be honest. Shoot, I'm down if she just beats people up with help from her large family (who look exactly like her and have the same name). That iconic finger pose will be a top tier taunt/idle animation.

Everyone mentions how additional modes get added in Smash with the DLC characters. You know what mode is missing? Coin Smash. Coincidence?

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Hat Kid is fun and has a cute design, but if we're going to get our first indie rep it should be someone with legacy like Quote or Shantae.

 

[yeet123]

Hat Kid would be an amazing addition to Smash. BUT, if Sans got the mii treatment there's no shot Hat Kid gets anything more than that.

For female reps gimme Jill Valentine, 2B, Lara Croft, and Amaterasu.

For female echoes gimme Dixie Kong, Octoling, and Jeanne.

Pac Man needs a Miss Pac Man alternate like Olimar/Alph. Cmon

 

[Nquoid]

But this isn't how it works at all. Stuff like Assist Trophies are only selected once initial planning is done and playable characters are decided. It's not like Sakurai takes a list and distributes characters into two categories.

I'm tired of Zelda talk, but I can say this much: We probably didn't get a Zelda newcomer because Zelda fandom couldn't decide which character should be THE NON-TRIFORCE WIELDER REP in ten years. None of the oh-so-iconic-and-popular one-offs have managed to gather a consistently large support.

In most cases, Sakurai and Nintendo chooses characters, not quotas and Zelda fandom isn't particularly good at providing them the latter.

There were 3 Zelda games released between SSB and Melee
There were 6 Zelda games released between Melee and Brawl
There were 3 Zelda games released between Brawl and 4
There were 2 Zelda games released between 4 and Ultimate (not including Hyrule Warriors)

It's sort of hard for any natural favourite to float to the top when in the time Smash released 5 games, Zelda has released 14 main series titles and a whole heap of re-releases and spin-offs. Hell there have been two Zelda games this year! That's a lot of new and unique characters in every single game. Mario and Pokemon are the only franchises Nintendo has that have that level of proliferation. Especially when Mario still maintains the same core cast every game.

We can all acknowledge the problem, but the solution in my mind is that Sakurai needs to be less rigid in regards to a franchise which really doesn't lend itself to the way that new playable characters have been chosen in Smash historically.

Sure the Zelda fanbase is split, but it's not like there was a consensus choice for Pokemon or Donkey Kong going into Ultimate. Hell Fire Emblem currently has four characters being thrown around, and the only reason there's a front runner is people are begrudgingly accepting it's probably Byleth rather the other lords.

 

[osby]

Everyone mentions how additional modes get added in Smash with the DLC characters. You know what mode is missing? Coin Smash. Coincidence?

I'm one of the three people in the world who liked Coin Smash, so... yes please.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

For female reps I'd probably go with Dixie or Shantae, or another female Zelda character like Impa, Mipha, or Ruto. Maybe even Gothitelle to represent Gen 5 Pokemon. If we get Louie as an echo for Olimar, then Brittany would be great as his own Alph-esque alt. Plus if we get a second Sonic rep Amy Rose could work, since she already has an intricate hammer moveset from the Sonic Advance games that they could pull from!

Lara could be interesting with a bow and tether based moveset (though if we get a Square Eidos rep I'd definitely prefer Gex xP ), and Amaterasu would be super cool since they could implement the calligraphy mechanic into her moveset. She'd also be our third quadrupedal fighter, and the game is really lacking in quadrupeds! She's not my first choice but I think she'd be a fun and welcome edition!

2B has little to do with Nintendo (if Platinum gets another rep Astral Chain makes way more sense), and while I haven't played RE I don't think Jill or any of its' other characters would be too interesting when pulled out of their genre (though feel free to correct me).

 

[Aetheri]

I don't want Waluigi in until he has a unique moveset.

I would presume that if Sakurai added Waluigi he would give him a unique moveset but...ok

----

Also regarding the whole Hat Kid discussion. First I still think the SMASH theory is BS. The only way it could be true is if it was by coincidence. Which is unlikely.

Second I'm not too familiar with a Hat in Time so I don't really have any opinion on how she could play...that said as far as indie characters go she is a bit far down the list methinks. I feel even characters like Trace, Hollow Knight and Yooka-laylee have a better shot.

 

[Deleted member]

Though, out of curiosity: How Hat Kid would work in Smash. I've never played the games, but she looks like a fun character.

On a serious note, Hat Kid has a lot of tools.

First starting with mobility. She has a double jump, wall climb, Mario dive, and a grappling hook. For extra extra speed, she can ride a scooter.

Her standard attacks would be centered around the umbrella she carries or Sonic homing attack. For special moves can be centered around the many powers she acquires over the game. She could bash into people with her scooter, throw potion bombs at her enemies, ground pound, slow down time around her, temporarily phase extradimensional objects into reality, shoot a laser beam, hover with her parasol, call upon a giant ball of Mafia men as a final smash. Really, anything from a Hat in Time is fair game.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I would presume that if Sakurai added Waluigi he would give him a unique moveset but...ok

Any Mario character can do sports bull****.

 

[Deleted member]

On the subject of Fire Emblem... You know who's playable in Awakening, Heroes (a main character, baby!), Fates, Warriors, and Three Houses? The lovable game guide/NPC/recruit/commander/merchant/recurring character who has also been in almost every other Fire Emblem I didn't name earlier, and will most likely be featured in future entries. She's one of the only characters who can always get away with being DLC in her home series because making money is her shtick, so why not Smash one day? She can show moves from the Merchant, Trickster/Assassin, Bow Knight/Sniper, Sage/Dark Knight, classes into her moveset. Or any and everything, to be honest. Shoot, I'm down if she just beats people up with help from her large family (who look exactly like her and have the same name). That iconic finger pose will be a top tier train/idle animation.

Everyone mentions how additional modes get added in Smash with the DLC characters. You know what mode is missing? Coin Smash. Coincidence?

Anna's cute and current. Why not?

 

[Just a random scrub]

Any Mario character can do sports bull****.

Just gonna copy and paste one of my quotes from a different thread

I didn't know swimming in the air, creating eggplants that make people sick and creating purple thorns (all that just off the top of my head) were things every Mario character in spinoffs could do. Even failing that, an entire unique moveset can be made from Waluigi's cheater personality alone (they could easily just invent stuff like they did for Captain Falcon). Look up Super Smash Flash 2' Waluigi moveset to see what he can really do to stand out. I really hope Sakurai's not excluding him for a lack of moveset potential, because he honestly has plenty.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Just gonna copy and paste one of my quotes from a different thread

I don't want him to have a moveset invented for Smash.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I do still wonder how Corrin would have been received if they just... took out the sword. Between the dragon form, having a lance on each arm and leg, the wings which tbh are terribly underutilized, and even the tail which doesn't get used at all, the sword isn't really necessary beyond the fsmash chainsaw gimmick. All of their throws and smash attacks could have used the pure dragon form with all other attacks using the hybrid forms.

I don't think it would necessarily help. I get that "anime swordfighter" is a meme, but what I meant in my post was more about other mechanics. Few people seem to have as much issue with Robin as they do with Corrin, Marth, Roy and the Echoes, for example, and he's still a sword character. The tomes and his "weapon break" mechanic helped set him apart.

Corrin is talked about as a "shapeshifting character", but it feels more like a simple disjoint than an actual transformation - and I say this as a Smash 4 Corrin secondary. I wonder what else could have been pulled from Fates to enhance their gameplay... I remember quite a few people questioning why the Critical Hit mechanic Hero has was never used for a Fire Emblem character instead, for example.

Three Houses seems to have a lot of interesting new stuff. Between the different routes, Divine Pulse, Battalions, Gambits and Byleth's whip sword, there are some legitimately good ideas for a character - though I wonder if these would be used at all.

... dunno, it just bugs me - like how Samus uses melee attacks in her normals instead of shooting like Mega Man or something.

 

[osby]

I don't want him to have a moveset invented for Smash.

Spoiler: 80% of the cast has their movesets invented for Smash.

 

[FelFlick]

What was the tweet abou Hat Kid you guys are talking about?

 

[Roberk]

On the subject of Fire Emblem... You know who's playable in Awakening, Heroes (a main character, baby!), Fates, Warriors, and Three Houses? The lovable game guide/NPC/recruit/commander/merchant/recurring character who has also been in almost every other Fire Emblem I didn't name earlier, and will most likely be featured in future entries. She's one of the only characters who can always get away with being DLC in her home series because making money is her shtick, so why not Smash one day? She can show moves from the Merchant, Trickster/Assassin, Bow Knight/Sniper, Sage/Dark Knight, classes into her moveset. Or any and everything, to be honest. Shoot, I'm down if she just beats people up with help from her large family (who look exactly like her and have the same name). That iconic finger pose will be a top tier train/idle animation.

Everyone mentions how additional modes get added in Smash with the DLC characters. You know what mode is missing? Coin Smash. Coincidence?

While I’d want a dozen or two other FE characters first, Anna would be pretty unique and would have the ability to represent the weirder sides of FE gameplay. Like, real niche game by game stuff. Mines from FE7, ballistae, etc. making her a zoned character. Rather than representing FE gameplay by spacing with a sword she can control the battlefield with various traps and projectiles. Idk, it could be neat.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'm tired of Zelda talk, but I can say this much: We probably didn't get a Zelda newcomer because Zelda fandom couldn't decide which character should be THE NON-TRIFORCE WIELDER REP in ten years. None of the oh-so-iconic-and-popular one-offs have managed to gather a consistently large support.

In most cases, Sakurai and Nintendo chooses characters, not quotas and Zelda fandom isn't particularly good at providing them the latter.

There's never been a unified series rep for Mario, Pokémon or Fire Emblem either.
Incineroar, Daisy and Plant sure weren't the popular fan choices from those series.
Fire Emblem's most popular character is still stuck as an assist trophy.

Seems a bit of an odd argument to make that Zelda's fans are to blame why the series hasn't got a new character when it's peers don't have to, to get the odd character thrown their way.

Also, even if everyone banded behind Midna for example there's no guarantee you'd GET Midna looking at the way the far more requested Geno and Waluigi got looked over for Daisy and Plant.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Spoiler: 80% of the cast has their movesets invented for Smash.

So?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I'm one of the three people in the world who liked Coin Smash, so... yes please.

It was never my favorite mode, but I did enjoy it as well and it feels a little off to not have it around in the same way that it felt off not having a version of Home Run Contest. Neither were my favorite mode, but they were fairly low effort Smash staples that added some additional gameplay variety that I greatly appreciated. Personally, I'm hoping that when Sakurai said Home Run Contest was pretty much the final mode that the "pretty much" was referring to an addition like "Coin Smash" that doesn't technically qualify as its own mode, just a rule set haha.

On the Zelda issue; I'd be more willing to entertain the idea of a Zelda newcomer if there was anything resembling consensus on who it should be. You ask who should be the Zelda newcomer and you end up with a laundry list of like 10 different characters from vastly different points in the series history. Yes, some of the characters are cool and have cool abilities... but is that enough in this day and age of Smash to get a character in the game? I mean, characters like Ridley and King K. Rool got in through organzied fan effort backing those characters, even with occasional alternative options on the table, so I feel like a new Zelda character needs something similar. And Sakurai has done a lot with Zelda that isn't specifically the character select screen obvious addition type of thing such as the constant redesigns and implementations of new stages from another variety of games. Hell, Zelda was the only returning Nintendo IP besides Mario to get a new stage in base Ultimate. Just because people obsess over character options doesn't mean the rest of the content isn't important to the game in its own right. You're never going to have perfect representation of anything in Smash or "fair" representation because such things don't inherently exist since that's a subjective analysis of content.

Also, I don't know how the **** the champions keep coming up as ideas for additions in Smash. They're such bland and underdeveloped characters that I genuinely do not see how people formed connections with them beyond design.

 

[Dee Dude]

Aren’t literally half of the Mario cast moves Smash original?

Mario Tornado and Finale weren’t from any games.

never preformed Green Missle and Cyclone in the games.

Peach Bomber and Blossom are Smash original, same with .

Giga Bowser comes from Smash and I’m certain none of Bowser’s specials except Fire Breath come from the Mario games.

I’m totally all for Waluigi having a Smash original moveset with a few tics from the games such as air swimming and Wall-Luigi from Strikers charged.

 

[FelFlick]

What was the tweet abou Hat Kid you guys are talking about?

Anyone?

 

[Deleted member]

People still asking for 1st party characters? Huh, personally I don't care since all first party characters I cared about got in in the 2 last games. 3rd parties are more interesting even after the Cloud reveal, I thought it was never going to happen.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Aren’t literally half of the Mario cast moves Smash original?

Mario Tornado and Finale weren’t from any games.

never preformed Green Missle and Cyclone in the games.

Peach Bomber and Blossom are Smash original, same with .

Giga Bowser comes from Smash and I’m certain none of Bowser’s specials except Fire Breath come from the Mario games.

I’m totally all for Waluigi having a Smash original moveset with a few tics from the games such as air swimming and Wall-Luigi from Strikers charged.

TIL two moves = half a moveset

 

[yeet123]

Just a reminder: Put Banjo-Kazooie in Kart 9

 

[Aetheri]

Anyone?

Its just a tweet that referred to the SMASH theory with Hat Kid being the final character.

On my phone rn so I can't be bothered to look for it.

 

[FelFlick]

Its just a tweet that referred to the SMASH theory with Hat Kid being the final character.

On my phone rn so I can't be bothered to look for it.

Thank you =)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Is Humble Bundle even the actual developer/publisher for Hat in Time?