Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[yeet123]

If Dark Souls can't get a playable rep, I can imagine a boss fight would work very well.

Souls/Miyazaki deserves a rep. Already an iconic series of games.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Damn it, TPC. Say something disagreeable for once.

I'm sorry I'm just always right.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 239381

I'm sorry I'm just always right.

That hubris will be the end of you.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I don't have any because that tweet itself is thoughtless.

Of course. I believe Arc Sys would do well, even with a 20 character roster like most of their starting ones.

I would agree with this, except for the fact that nowadays anything Japanese is called anime, and the label of anime itself seems to be incredibly selective too. Y'all are complaining about Hero being an anime swordfighter when Isaac would literally be the exact same thing. It's a buzzword thrown around the community.

Another thing is that other important Nintendo series aren't really as important as Fire Emblem now. The last major Donkey Kong game was a port of Tropical Freeze that didn't make that much of an impact (though Tropical Freeze is a great game) and Pikmin 4 was Hey! Pikmin and Nintendo is too afraid to admit it (regardless, it tanked the series like Chibi-Robo Ziplash). The Legend of Zelda is already the most represented series in Smash (the only thing they could do more is give Young Link a mask moveset), so that's a non-point

Since Awakening, Fire Emblem has cemented itself as one of Nintendo's leading series, and Three Houses proves that more than ever. I would argue that Fire Emblem's representation since Sm4sh is more than justified given how the rise of the series has put it in a position to overcome many other Nintendo properties in terms of widespread sales and popularity. Also literally 3 of the Fire Emblem characters are low effort clones so they don't even really count. That's just Smash fans being mad about having a cherry on top of their cake.

TL;DR Calling characters anime is bull**** and Fire Emblem has become one of Nintendo's most prevalent properties, so it getting another character is more than justified.

I think the label is typically placed based on art style and demographic appeal. It's not placed on literally anything Japanese, or else the entire roster would be considered "anime" except for Diddy, K. Rool, and Banjo.
Keep in mind, I had absolutely no problems with Hero being in the game, Toriyama's art style helps him stand out, and Dragon Quest has had a rich history with Nintendo, so it more than deserved the spot. Hell I'd be happy if Isaac got in, and it'd be funny to see Sora on the roster. Yes there are people calling him out unfairly but I just hope you realize that some of the anime-based frustration is there for a good reason.

You have a fair point regarding Donkey Kong (I'm surprised we haven't gotten a third Donkey Kong Country Retro Studios game yet), but in no way is Zelda the most represented series in Smash in terms of characters. Three of its' reps are near-identical Links, and another is a semi-clone. Zelda has so many colorful characters it could add. Skull Kid or Ruto as a more interesting representative of the N64 games, Midna, the Breath of the Wild champions, Fi, Ghiraham, Tetra, hell even Tingle. Adding a few of them would result in MUCH better representation for the franchise. And it deserves it. Furthermore, one of Nintendo's most successful games in recent years was Breath of the Wild, and it really broke new ground and built upon what open world series like The Elder Scrolls popularized. Honestly in some ways Zelda was not represented, it was neglected.

Is Fire Emblem a rising star? yes. Does it deserve good representation in Smash? Yes. Does it deserve 8 slots (if you include a DLC rep) when there are slews of much more requested characters? Not at all. I know a lot of you love the franchise and I know Three Houses has had a lot of success, but even then it still has as many slots as it needs. Even Sakurai himself has been uneasy about adding more. Corrin proved to be an extremely controversial choice, and Chrom was likely done because he was a very simple and easy fan request to fill. Though I'll admit it could use another stage.
If I were in charge of the series representation I'd personally choose a lineup of Marth, Ike, decloned Roy, and Robin. Then for DLC thrown in Three Houses or a well-requested classic like Lyn, Hector, or Black Knight. For its' current status I think five slots would be much fairer for the time being. Marth to represent the original games, Roy to represent the GBA games, Ike to represent the Gamecube/Wii era console games, and Robin to represent the modern games, with the classic or Three Houses rep as a bonus. I've spoken to several friends about this and even those who adore the series agree that this is a fair amount of slots.
Because keep in mind, despite its' current success it has yet to outsell almost unknown franchises like our boy Gex. I'm glad you're all enjoying seeing your series rise to greater heights, but I just don't want it to end up overshadowing Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda (the first two who are often considered as having too many reps). Fire Emblem is on its' way up, but as it stands Mario Zelda and Pokemon are household names. Fire Emblem isn't.

Either way, both sides need to respect each other more, we shouldn't be blindly hating characters we don't want but at the same time supporters should be respectful of those who don't care about Fire Emblem/Persona/Xenoblade/Playstation-exclusive waifus. It's not healthy for the community and only makes people upset or feel ostracized.

Alduin....

With Rathalos in the game I don't see us getting Alduin as a boss (as amazing as he would be), but how do you feel about Dragonborn in Smash? He's really being slept on!

View attachment 239381

I'm sorry I'm just always right.

Smugness doesn't do one any favors...

 

[Zinith]

but how do you feel about Dragonborn in Smash?

Only if Argonian is one of the alts

 

[DarthEnderX]

TL;DR Calling characters anime is bull**** and Fire Emblem has become one of Nintendo's most prevalent properties, so it getting another character is more than justified.

Fire Emblem doesn't need another character. But being anime ain't the reason why.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Lol @ getting mad at FE characters.

"It's just a game, bro!"

 

[osby]

You have a fair point regarding Donkey Kong (I'm surprised we haven't gotten a third Donkey Kong Country Retro Studios game yet), but in no way is Zelda the most represented series in Smash in terms of characters. Three of its' reps are near-identical Links, and another is a semi-clone. Zelda has so many colorful characters it could add. Skull Kid or Ruto as a more interesting representative of the N64 games, Midna, the Breath of the Wild champions, Fi, Ghiraham, Tetra, hell even Tingle. Adding a few of them would result in MUCH better representation for the franchise. And it deserves it. Furthermore, one of Nintendo's most successful games in recent years was Breath of the Wild, and it really broke new ground and built upon what open world series like The Elder Scrolls popularized. Honestly in some ways Zelda was not represented, it was neglected.

Is Fire Emblem a rising star? yes. Does it deserve good representation in Smash? Yes. Does it deserve 8 slots (if you include a DLC rep) when there are slews of much more requested characters? Not at all. I know a lot of you love the franchise and I know Three Houses has had a lot of success, but even then it still has as many slots as it needs. Even Sakurai himself has been uneasy about adding more. Corrin proved to be an extremely controversial choice, and Chrom was likely done because he was a very simple and easy fan request to fill. Though I'll admit it could use another stage.
If I were in charge of the series representation I'd personally choose a lineup of Marth, Ike, decloned Roy, and Robin. Then for DLC thrown in Three Houses or a well-requested classic like Lyn, Hector, or Black Knight. For its' current status I think five slots would be much fairer for the time being. Marth to represent the original games, Roy to represent the GBA games, Ike to represent the Gamecube/Wii era console games, and Robin to represent the modern games, with the classic or Three Houses rep as a bonus. I've spoken to several friends about this and even those who adore the series agree that this is a fair amount of slots.

*Zelda is neglected because of clones*
*Fire Emblem has seven "slots"*

Which one?

As for your five character argument, Fire Emblem already has that amount of unique characters. If you think it doesn't deserve seven squares on the CSS, just stack the echoes.

 

[Nquoid]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

Man I wish Gunstar Heroes had done a bit more with the playable characters than just call them Gunstar Red and Gunstar Blue cus I want a Treasure rep, especially since Saki is off the table and Ikaruga hardly lends itself to a playable character (unless it's a boss...)

But serious answer, Dark Souls. Dark Souls and Monster Hunter function in a similar place where the protagonist isn't interesting and the bosses are the big draw to the game.

*Zelda is neglected because of clones*
*Fire Emblem has seven "slots"*

Which one?.

Zelda has 3 unique play styles and the series villain is a clone of a character from a different franchise with a made up moveset. PLUS Zelda hasn't had a new rep since Brawl and even that was a replacement for a character introduced in Melee.

Fire Emblem has four original movesets and more playable characters, and has had a new playable character in every Smash game since Melee. And its had a new original moveset added in every game but Ultimate.

Fire Emblem has an abundance of clones which means it doesn't represent the franchise well, but Zelda has been lacking on the playable character side for almost 20 years now. Despite, on paper, being a top 5 Nintendo franchise.

 

[cothero]

Oh boy I get to post my Edelgard moveset again.

Spoiler

View attachment 239377​

General playstyle description and justification:

Edelgard uses her signature axe, Aymr, in Smash Bros. She's the shortest of the current Fire Emblem cast, but not by a large margin. She's not very quick, about on par with Mii Swordfighter, while also being decently heavy due to her axe.

To offset these characteristics, her playstyle revolves around taking full control of and limiting the opponent's movement options, allowing her to more easily get a few solid hits in. In Fire Emblem Three Houses, one major new feature is the Battalion and Gambit system, which works off of the user's Charm stat and Authority level. By selecting a Gambit, a battalion of soldiers joins a unit for a group attack, and these can have various effects.

One common theme is limiting the target's options. Opponents can't counter attack, Gambits often leave Beast units dazed and unable to strike, and when used on normal enemies, they often prevent them from moving at all.

Edelgard's best combat ranks in Three Houses are Axes and Authority, which would make up her moveset here. This also showcases her personality, as someone who always has a plan and leaves nothing to chance. By eliminating the opponent's escape options, she forces them to face her head on, where she can then deliver a decisive blow.

Jab - A two-hit combo attack, wherein Edelgard hits the opponent in a chopping motion with her axe, alternating which side she swings from.

Dash Attack - While running, Edelgard swings her axe upward from the ground in an arching sweep.

Forward Tilt - A two-strike attack, similar to Meta Knight and Piranha Plant. On the first hit, Edelgard sweeps her axe from the side, and the second hit has her continuing the motion as she swings it downward from overhead.

Up Tilt - Edelgard swings her axe from the ground to above her head in an almost golf club-like motion.

Down Tilt - While crouching, Edelgard kicks outward while holding her axe close by.

Neutral Air - Edelgard swings Aymr in a complete circle around her body. If this move is held, she keeps performing this move and each subsequent swing gets a lightning effect with high hitstun.

Up Air - Edelgard performs a motion similar to Ike's old up air, but with a fire effect imbuing the axe.

Forward Air - Edelgard slams Aymr downward in front of her, and if the foe makes contact with the spiked end, they get, well, spiked.

Back Air - Edelgard swings Aymr behind her. If an opponent is hit, a small explosion-like fire effect activates and launches them backwards.

Down Air - Edelgard slams Aymr downward, falling downward with it. If she hits an opponent in the air with it, they both plummet straight down and, upon hitting the ground, the foe takes very high damage. The move has a lightning effect to reference the Lightning Axe art.

Forward Smash - Taken from her own Smash combat art, Edelgard leaps forward and smashes Aymr into the ground in front of her.

Up Smash - Edelgard thrusts Aymr skyward as a giant projection of the Crest of Seiros envelops it, the sigil doing rapid multi-hit damage before exploding.

Down Smash - Edelgard ducks down and spins Aymr along the ground in a circle as one fluid motion. Shortly afterwards, the circled area around her bursts into flames for an additional attack.

Pummel - Edelgard grabs the foe and bashes them with Aymr.

Forward Throw - Based on the Smite maneuver, Edelgard launches the foe forward with high knockback by swinging her axe at them. This is a powerful kill throw.

Back Throw - Edelgard throws the opponent, slamming them into the ground behind her.

Up Throw - Edelgard uses one hand to launch the foe skyward.

Down Throw - Edelgard throws the foe into the ground beneath her.

Neutral Special - Flickering Flower - Edelgard readies her stance as Aymr takes on a red glow. Upon releasing the button, she swings the axe with full force. If an opponent is hit by this move, they won't take much damage, but will receive massive hitstun as a small explosion effect holds them in place for a short while. Edelgard can then follow up with a strong Smash Attack, or regain space by leaving the foe there.

Side Special - Hand Axe - A simple projectile and one of Edelgard's faster attacks. Edelgard takes a small throwing axe and tosses it. It will then spin through the air as it flies, before hitting the ground and disappearing. If foes are hit with the blade, they will take much more damage than if hit with the handle. The blade will also do significant shield damage. While the move is fast, it cannot be spammed easily, as only one Hand Axe can be on the screen at a time per Edelgard.

Up Special - Raging Storm - Edelgard takes from one of her Critical Hit animations and leaps upward with Aymr held high, and then crashes downward at a diagonal. The move has a rising hitbox with Aymr's head, but it can be cancelled before reaching the full height. This, however, loses the hitbox. This attack acts as a mix between Cross Chop and Super Dedede Jump.

Down Special - Fusillade - Edelgard makes an exaggerated wave of her hand and yells "Now!" From the fourth wall, a volley of arrows from an unseen imperial battalion rains down in a column shaped area in front of her, covering the same amount of height as Palutena's up smash. This attack can be used for edge-guarding purposes, as airborne opponent's will be slightly pushed downward for each arrow that hits them. However, if Edelgard is in the air when she uses this move, only one arrow will be launched, reducing the move's effectiveness. This move also has a small cooldown after it's used, so use it wisely.

Final Smash - Raging Flames - Edelgard whacks a nearby foe with Aymr, triggering a cutscene as "Gambit Boost" flashes onto the screen. A cart full of explosives is wheeled toward the knocked down foe. Edelgard is joined by Byleth and Hubert. Edelgard gives the command as Hubert fires a Miasma toward the cart, the latter laughing all the while. The cart explodes on contact with the target as the cutscene ends and the foe is sent flying.

Is that really an axe?... Looks more like a scepter. Not gonna lie though, she looks decent. We don't have any axe user yet.

 

[Roberk]

Personally, I want another FE rep to help realize the series' potential in Smash. Even with 7 "slots", it feels lacking, everyone who isn't Robin is a put into a sword user archetype and even if Corrin is kinda unique I just don't want to play as Corrin. It's a poor representation and oversaturation of the same kinds of characters in moveset and character design. I believe the weapons, playstyles, personalities, and designs that Three Houses characters can bring to Smash really rise above "just another FE rep". Byleth is another avatar, but their design is rad and they've got a whipsword which is even more rad, there's not a lot of opportunities to get this unique kind of weapon in Smash. Edelgard is a villain to some people and a striking revolutionary to others, and being an armored axe user would definitely set her apart from a slim sword-boy. Dimitri turns Marth's lord archetype on its head and can have fearsome psychopathic tendencies, something we don't see on the roster and is even more interesting on a character that's supposed to be a protagonist when he has these mental health issues rather than a villain (also spear user). Finally, Claude is a POC which is enough for diversity on the roster, but with bow-wielding and comical nature sets him apart as well. Rather than focusing on measuring contests between roster sizes for series, I wish we actually appreciated well-made characters that could be great additions to the roster on their own.

Ahh but never mind they've got developed characters and somewhat realistic proportions, they're too anime and are bad for the Smash roster.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Ahh but never mind they've got developed characters and somewhat realistic proportions, they're too anime and are bad for the Smash roster.

If only people would learn to respect Olimar's character development, he's got so much material and gets no respect.

I'd be more willing to see a Three Houses character if we gave Corrin and one of the echos the boot. I think the next game would be a better time to introduce them since it'll likely focus on first parties.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think the label is typically placed based on art style and demographic appeal. It's not placed on literally anything Japanese, or else the entire roster would be considered "anime" except for Diddy, K. Rool, and Banjo.
Keep in mind, I had absolutely no problems with Hero being in the game, Toriyama's art style helps him stand out, and Dragon Quest has had a rich history with Nintendo, so it more than deserved the spot. Hell I'd be happy if Isaac got in, and it'd be funny to see Sora on the roster. Yes there are people calling him out unfairly but I just hope you realize that some of the anime-based frustration is there for a good reason.

You have a fair point regarding Donkey Kong (I'm surprised we haven't gotten a third Donkey Kong Country Retro Studios game yet), but in no way is Zelda the most represented series in Smash in terms of characters. Three of its' reps are near-identical Links, and another is a semi-clone. Zelda has so many colorful characters it could add. Skull Kid or Ruto as a more interesting representative of the N64 games, Midna, the Breath of the Wild champions, Fi, Ghiraham, Tetra, hell even Tingle. Adding a few of them would result in MUCH better representation for the franchise. And it deserves it. Furthermore, one of Nintendo's most successful games in recent years was Breath of the Wild, and it really broke new ground and built upon what open world series like The Elder Scrolls popularized. Honestly in some ways Zelda was not represented, it was neglected.

Is Fire Emblem a rising star? yes. Does it deserve good representation in Smash? Yes. Does it deserve 8 slots (if you include a DLC rep) when there are slews of much more requested characters? Not at all. I know a lot of you love the franchise and I know Three Houses has had a lot of success, but even then it still has as many slots as it needs. Even Sakurai himself has been uneasy about adding more. Corrin proved to be an extremely controversial choice, and Chrom was likely done because he was a very simple and easy fan request to fill. Though I'll admit it could use another stage.
If I were in charge of the series representation I'd personally choose a lineup of Marth, Ike, decloned Roy, and Robin. Then for DLC thrown in Three Houses or a well-requested classic like Lyn, Hector, or Black Knight. For its' current status I think five slots would be much fairer for the time being. Marth to represent the original games, Roy to represent the GBA games, Ike to represent the Gamecube/Wii era console games, and Robin to represent the modern games, with the classic or Three Houses rep as a bonus. I've spoken to several friends about this and even those who adore the series agree that this is a fair amount of slots.
Because keep in mind, despite its' current success it has yet to outsell almost unknown franchises like our boy Gex. I'm glad you're all enjoying seeing your series rise to greater heights, but I just don't want it to end up overshadowing Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda (the first two who are often considered as having too many reps). Fire Emblem is on its' way up, but as it stands Mario Zelda and Pokemon are household names. Fire Emblem isn't.

Either way, both sides need to respect each other more, we shouldn't be blindly hating characters we don't want but at the same time supporters should be respectful of those who don't care about Fire Emblem/Persona/Xenoblade/Playstation-exclusive waifus. It's not healthy for the community and only makes people upset or feel ostracized.

Smugness doesn't do one any favors...

I think the label is typically placed based on art style and demographic appeal. It's not placed on literally anything Japanese, or else the entire roster would be considered "anime" except for Diddy, K. Rool, and Banjo. Keep in mind, I had absolutely no problems with Hero being in the game, Toriyama's art style helps him stand out, and Dragon Quest has had a rich history with Nintendo, so it more than deserved the spot. Hell I'd be happy if Isaac got in, and it'd be funny to see Sora on the roster. Yes there are people calling him out unfairly but I just hope you realize that some of the anime-based frustration is there for a good reason.

Except the label is thrown around haphazardly. "Blue-haired anime swordfighter" is a meme because people said it so much it became a classic copypasta like "Shulk is photoshopped Little Mac." The anime-based frustration isn't there for a good reason because Japan is the home of anime. Of course a Japanese crossover game is going to feature a lot of characters inspired by anime. The frustration feels more like the Smash fans looking to a scapegoat when their favorite character doesn't get in, and I feel reflects a wider ignorance of Japanese influences in Smash. Is Smash popular in the west? Yes. But it's developed in Japan, so they're going to appeal to that demographic first. You can dislike it, but you have to understand it at the very least. "Anime-based frustration" is the exact opposite of understanding.

but in no way is Zelda the most represented series in Smash in terms of characters. Three of its' reps are near-identical Links, and another is a semi-clone. Zelda has so many colorful characters it could add. Skull Kid or Ruto as a more interesting representative of the N64 games, Midna, the Breath of the Wild champions, Fi, Ghiraham, Tetra, hell even Tingle. Adding a few of them would result in MUCH better representation for the franchise. And it deserves it. Furthermore, one of Nintendo's most successful games in recent years was Breath of the Wild, and it really broke new ground and built upon what open world series like The Elder Scrolls popularized. Honestly in some ways Zelda was not represented, it was neglected.

That's a nice point, except representation is more than just characters. The Legend of Zelda series has 6 fighters (it ought to be noted that Young Link and Toon Link both have enough differences to make them semi-clones, so I guess you could say it's more like 5), 8 items, 4 assist trophies, and 9 stages, which is more than most series, bar Mario and Pokémon. People think representation is limited to characters when there's more to it than just that. Sure, 3 LoZ characters are Links that play similar to each other (even then over time they've each taken on their own flair and style), but it's also represented in various other ways that should be noted. All of those characters you mentioned are flavor of the week characters who appear inconsistently at best. In a series that is defined by its main triad of characters (Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf) they don't make much of an impact. They aren't even all prominent in the games they appear in, bar Tetra and Tingle, who has his own game somehow (even then it never released in the US so RIP his chances).

Is Fire Emblem a rising star? yes. Does it deserve good representation in Smash? Yes. Does it deserve 8 slots (if you include a DLC rep) when there are slews of much more requested characters? Not at all. I know a lot of you love the franchise and I know Three Houses has had a lot of success, but even then it still has as many slots as it needs. Even Sakurai himself has been uneasy about adding more. Corrin proved to be an extremely controversial choice, and Chrom was likely done because he was a very simple and easy fan request to fill. Though I'll admit it could use another stage.
If I were in charge of the series representation I'd personally choose a lineup of Marth, Ike, decloned Roy, and Robin. Then for DLC thrown in Three Houses or a well-requested classic like Lyn, Hector, or Black Knight. For its' current status I think five slots would be much fairer for the time being. Marth to represent the original games, Roy to represent the GBA games, Ike to represent the Gamecube/Wii era console games, and Robin to represent the modern games, with the classic or Three Houses rep as a bonus. I've spoken to several friends about this and even those who adore the series agree that this is a fair amount of slots.
Because keep in mind, despite its' current success it has yet to outsell almost unknown franchises like our boy Gex. I'm glad you're all enjoying seeing your series rise to greater heights, but I just don't want it to end up overshadowing Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda (the first two who are often considered as having too many reps). Fire Emblem is on its' way up, but as it stands Mario Zelda and Pokemon are household names. Fire Emblem isn't.

Those 8 slots are more like 5.5 given that literally 3 of those characters are a semi-clone and two actual clones. Again, it's Smash fans complaining about the cherry on top of their cake. While Sakurai was worried about adding too many FE reps, that was for Sm4sh DLC. We're in a different field now. At that point Fates had yet to really prove itself, and Fire Emblem was only around half as popular as it is now (Echoes, Heroes, Warriors, and Three Houses all came out and solidified the series' success after Fates). I honestly think you're underestimating how immensely popular Three Houses is, and how much of a success it was for Nintendo. I think Sakurai would be a lot less apprehensive about adding a Three Houses rep now.

I'm not going to comment on your DLC lineup since it's a "what if," and while those are fun they ultimately mean nothing. I'll just reiterate Sakurai's famous words: "Have you ever made a game?"

I would ultimately argue that Fire Emblem as a series has made more than Gex given how Heroes has made hundreds of millions of dollars on its own. It's been the highest grossing mobile game Nintendo has since it released in 2017 (over two years ago).

Regardless of whether you "don't want it to end up overshadowing Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda," it's already taken its place among them as one of Nintendo's new dominant series.

Either way, both sides need to respect each other more, we shouldn't be blindly hating characters we don't want but at the same time supporters should be respectful of those who don't care about Fire Emblem/Persona/Xenoblade/Playstation-exclusive waifus. It's not healthy for the community and only makes people upset or feel ostracized.

I agree, but at the same time it feels like you're blindly hating characters you don't want. The phrasing "Playstation-exclusive waifus" really doesn't help your case here.

If you don't like anime you can just say it.

Smugness doesn't do one any favors...

------the joke------->

you

 

[Guynamednelson]

If only people would learn to respect Olimar's character development, he's got so much material and gets no respect.

I'd be more willing to see a Three Houses character if we gave Corrin and one of the echos the boot. I think the next game would be a better time to introduce them since it'll likely focus on first parties.

Corrin I understand, since they didn't need Smash to be associated with controversy, but Lucina and Chrom are pretty damn popular characters. They could make Lucina an alt of Chrom, but just know that that doesn't free up a slot for roster balance all that much.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Cut Marth, Roy, Chrom, and Corrin. Make Ike as fast as he is in his games.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Cut Marth, Roy, Chrom, and Corrin. Make Ike as fast as he is in his games.

This right here?

Genius.

The only downside is that Ike is now on par with Brawl Meta Knight and Sm4sh Bayonetta. Fire Emblem may only have 3 characters, but now one of them is single handedly dominating the metagame.

Are you all happy now?

 

[Roberk]

If only people would learn to respect Olimar's character development, he's got so much material and gets no respect.

I'd be more willing to see a Three Houses character if we gave Corrin and one of the echos the boot. I think the next game would be a better time to introduce them since it'll likely focus on first parties.

I can see them dropping Corrin since their inclusion was flavor of the month and time hasn't been well to them with popularity (not that they were well received in the first place), but there's little to no reason to cut clones. They're extremely easy to develop/port to new games, so I don't think Sakurai would cut fan-favorite characters like Roy, Lucina, and Chrom just for the sake of it. Lucina and Chrom were added for their proven popularity from Awakening, and while Binding Blade still isn't localized Roy has created his own fanbase with his Smash legacy.

 

[Aetheri]

As a Zelda fan, one of my biggest pet peeves in Smash speculation is seeing something along the lines of "Zelda is already well represented in Smash" or "Zelda doesn't need any more reps because they already have the three triforce wielders" That's not really the point.

While I agree to an extent that bringing in new series is better for expanding Smash's purpose as a crossover, at the same time, one of the reasons why characters like K Rool and Ridley were so popular is also due to the popularity of the series they come from, and the lack of fighters they've had previous to Ultimate. That's something that should not be ignored, especially for a larger series like Zelda.

That said while fans of the Fire Emblem series are free to request as many characters from their series as they want, there is a very appropriate reason why Smash fans (who are specifically not Fire Emblem fans) are rolling their eyes at the idea. Fatigue with one given series is a very real thing and there's even a fair number of fans that are getting tired of seeing new Mario and Pokemon fighters being added despite them being two of the biggest IP's in gaming. Fire Emblem can't even hold a candle to them in comparison, so it should be reasonable to imagine how people react considering it's a smaller series. Now imagine when a larger series (like Zelda) not only gets less new fighters but ends up getting less fighters overall than the smaller series that is only just recently starting to gain traction.

Let me iterate that while I would prefer not to have anymore Fire Emblem fighters at least until the next Smash game, characters like Edelgard and Byleth are not entirely boring characters as far as their potential goes, one using an axe and the other a whip-sword. But even then in comparison characters like Midna, Skull Kid, and Ghirahim I feel have a lot more to offer as far as playstyle goes.

 

[TheCJBrine]

All of those characters you mentioned are flavor of the week characters who appear inconsistently at best. In a series that is defined by its main triad of characters (Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf) they don't make much of an impact. They aren't even all prominent in the games they appear in, bar Tetra and Tingle, who has his own game somehow (even then it never released in the US so RIP his chances).

Skull Kid at least has an antagonistic role (even if he doesn’t fight you himself) and a sort-of miniboss role, and Midna is the secondary protagonist of her game and is with you ever since you meet her at around the beginning. They’re also very popular alongside the others like Tetra.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Except the label is thrown around haphazardly. "Blue-haired anime swordfighter" is a meme because people said it so much it became a classic copypasta like "Shulk is photoshopped Little Mac." The anime-based frustration isn't there for a good reason because Japan is the home of anime. Of course a Japanese crossover game is going to feature a lot of characters inspired by anime. The frustration feels more like the Smash fans looking to a scapegoat when their favorite character doesn't get in, and I feel reflects a wider ignorance of Japanese influences in Smash. Is Smash popular in the west? Yes. But it's developed in Japan, so they're going to appeal to that demographic first. You can dislike it, but you have to understand it at the very least. "Anime-based frustration" is the exact opposite of understanding.

That's a nice point, except representation is more than just characters. The Legend of Zelda series has 6 fighters (it ought to be noted that Young Link and Toon Link both have enough differences to make them semi-clones, so I guess you could say it's more like 5), 8 items, 4 assist trophies, and 9 stages, which is more than most series, bar Mario and Pokémon. People think representation is limited to characters when there's more to it than just that. Sure, 3 LoZ characters are Links that play similar to each other (even then over time they've each taken on their own flair and style), but it's also represented in various other ways that should be noted. All of those characters you mentioned are flavor of the week characters who appear inconsistently at best. In a series that is defined by its main triad of characters (Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf) they don't make much of an impact. They aren't even all prominent in the games they appear in, bar Tetra and Tingle, who has his own game somehow (even then it never released in the US so RIP his chances).

Those 8 slots are more like 5.5 given that literally 3 of those characters are a semi-clone and two actual clones. Again, it's Smash fans complaining about the cherry on top of their cake. While Sakurai was worried about adding too many FE reps, that was for Sm4sh DLC. We're in a different field now. At that point Fates had yet to really prove itself, and Fire Emblem was only around half as popular as it is now (Echoes, Heroes, Warriors, and Three Houses all came out and solidified the series' success after Fates). I honestly think you're underestimating how immensely popular Three Houses is, and how much of a success it was for Nintendo. I think Sakurai would be a lot less apprehensive about adding a Three Houses rep now.

I'm not going to comment on your DLC lineup since it's a "what if," and while those are fun they ultimately mean nothing. I'll just reiterate Sakurai's famous words: "Have you ever made a game?"

I would ultimately argue that Fire Emblem as a series has made more than Gex given how Heroes has made hundreds of millions of dollars on its own. It's been the highest grossing mobile game Nintendo has since it released in 2017 (over two years ago).

Regardless of whether you "don't want it to end up overshadowing Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda," it's already taken its place among them as one of Nintendo's new dominant series.

I agree, but at the same time it feels like you're blindly hating characters you don't want. The phrasing "Playstation-exclusive waifus" really doesn't help your case here.

If you don't like anime you can just say it.

------the joke------->

you

Like I mentioned before there are some anime-esque characters that I would like to see in the game or had no problem with. What bothers me most is the attitudes of a lot of people in the community much moreso than the characters themselves.

I have seen the game's popularity firsthand. I've seen the art, the discussions, even two full routes via watching my friend play it on Twitch. I know how much of a success it is, and I know Sakurai can do what he wants. But not everyone has to agree on it getting a rep. Some people just want to see more wacky or unexpected characters instead like Piranha Plant or Banjo.

I meant part of it is due to whaling (though that's a thing with all gacha games), but I do get your point, and it will outsell Gex eventually. I was going by Wikipedia's charts and I guess the income for Heroes wasn't factored in.

Many of them are flavor of the week characters but then again so are a lot of Fire Emblem's cast, they're series full of one-offs. But a lot of those Zelda characters are very popular, highly requested characters. Just look at the reaction there was to Skull Kid and people clinging to a chair theory hoping it meant his inclusion. People want to see someone like him in the game as much as someone like Byleth or Edelgard. You have a good point in terms of stages, like I mentioned Fire Emblem has gotten pretty shafted in terms of that, but when it comes to representation characters are what make the biggest splash.

I'll admit, I've been having a bad day and wrote that while feeling very angry, so I apologize for being rather rude and ignorant. But when people think that someone like Katalina is a better and more interesting character than someone like Waluigi (who's way more than just a meme) it does make me upset. People can like who they want though it can't be ignored that there are some biases in the community.
Though I'm glad we can agree that there shouldn't be division between the two sides, everyone deserves respect.

 

[Idon]

This right here?

Genius.

The only downside is that Ike is now on par with Brawl Meta Knight and Sm4sh Bayonetta. Fire Emblem may only have 3 characters, but now one of them is single handedly dominating the metagame.

Are you all happy now?

Absolutely.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

This right here?

Genius.

The only downside is that Ike is now on par with Brawl Meta Knight and Sm4sh Bayonetta. Fire Emblem may only have 3 characters, but now one of them is single handedly dominating the metagame.

Are you all happy now?

If Cloud can have a giant ass sword and be fast without being OP, so can Ike.

 

[---]

Would rather see a new FE stage before a character personally. For all of Fates' problems, I think Valla/Invisible Kingdom could have been a pretty fun locale.

The only downside is that Ike is now on par with Brawl Meta Knight and Sm4sh Bayonetta. Fire Emblem may only have 3 characters, but now one of them is single handedly dominating the metagame.

Are you all happy now?

No. Not until Aether both heals & deals increased shield damage, and Ike has his Ragnell blade beam/projectile.

Absolutely.
View attachment 239395

Why is that meme in English, when it's a screen cap from the Japanese version of the game?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Skull Kid at least has an antagonistic role (even if he doesn’t fight you himself) and a sort-of miniboss role, and Midna is the secondary protagonist of her game and is with you ever since you meet her at around the beginning. They’re also very popular alongside the others like Tetra.

The phrase at least is the problem here.

They're still not really all that important to the series as a whole. Only Link, Zelda, and Ganon(dorf) have that. The only Zelda characters who really have a claim to Smash in my opinion are Impa, who's not all that relevant and has too many iterations to choose one, and Tetra, who falls into the same trap Dixie does where she's relevant and popular, but not all that relevant and popular. Ganon could be another cool character, but he's not nearly popular enough.

I get Zelda has a cool bunch of characters, but most of them are better saved for games celebrating the series' legacy, like Hyrule Warriors.

As a Zelda fan, one of my biggest pet peeves in Smash speculation is seeing something along the lines of "Zelda is already well represented in Smash" or "Zelda doesn't need any more reps because they already have the three triforce wielders" That's not really the point.

While I agree to an extent that bringing in new series is better for expanding Smash's purpose as a crossover, at the same time, one of the reasons why characters like K Rool and Ridley were so popular is also due to the popularity of the series they come from, and the lack of fighters they've had previous to Ultimate. That's something that should not be ignored, especially for a larger series like Zelda.

That said while fans of the Fire Emblem series are free to request as many characters from their series as they want, there is a very appropriate reason why Smash fans (who are specifically not Fire Emblem fans) are rolling their eyes at the idea. Fatigue with one given series is a very real thing and there's even a fair number of fans that are getting tired of seeing new Mario and Pokemon fighters being added despite them being two of the biggest IP's in gaming. Fire Emblem can't even hold a candle to them in comparison, so it should be reasonable to imagine how people react considering it's a smaller series. Now imagine when a larger series (like Zelda) not only gets less new fighters but ends up getting less fighters overall than the smaller series that is only just recently starting to gain traction.

Let me iterate that while I would prefer not to have anymore Fire Emblem fighters at least until the next Smash game, characters like Edelgard and Byleth are not entirely boring characters as far as their potential goes, one using an axe and the other a whip-sword. But even then in comparison characters like Midna, Skull Kid, and Ghirahim I feel have a lot more to offer as far as playstyle goes.

Many of them are flavor of the week characters but then again so are a lot of Fire Emblem's cast, they're series full of one-offs. But a lot of those Zelda characters are very popular, highly requested characters. Just look at the reaction there was to Skull Kid and people clinging to a chair theory hoping it meant his inclusion. People want to see someone like him in the game as much as someone like Byleth or Edelgard. You have a good point in terms of stages, like I mentioned Fire Emblem has gotten pretty shafted in terms of that, but when it comes to representation characters are what make the biggest splash.

As a fan of Zelda myself I think the series is pretty solid in terms of representation. There's more to it than just characters. There's stages, assist trophies, items, music, Spirits/Trophies, etc., and Zelda has a lot of content between all of those. I'm personally of the belief that things like stages and assist trophies matter almost equally to Sakurai. While we may only care about the characters, he and the team care about all of it.

The argument of "flavor of the week Zelda" vs. "flavor of the week Fire Emblem" is that Fire Emblem is a game based around flavor of the week characters. It's like Final Fantasy that way. The characters currently in Smash are the mainstays of the series at this point, making appearances in most other games. Zelda is focused around Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. I do believe more variation could be created among them (give Young Link a unique mask moveset, add Ganon as another character, give Toon Link Wind Waker unique items), but characters like Skull Kid don't really stack up (Skull Kid was actually a bandwagon pick that people jumped on after loz18 talked about him though).

I think if the Zelda fans in the core fanbase banded together to advocate for a character with solid importance to the series we could see something, but banding behind assist trophy tier characters like Skull Kid and Ghirahim clearly hasn't gotten them anywhere.

 

[Nquoid]

That's a nice point, except representation is more than just characters. The Legend of Zelda series has 6 fighters (it ought to be noted that Young Link and Toon Link both have enough differences to make them semi-clones, so I guess you could say it's more like 5), 8 items, 4 assist trophies, and 9 stages, which is more than most series, bar Mario and Pokémon. People think representation is limited to characters when there's more to it than just that. Sure, 3 LoZ characters are Links that play similar to each other (even then over time they've each taken on their own flair and style), but it's also represented in various other ways that should be noted. All of those characters you mentioned are flavor of the week characters who appear inconsistently at best. In a series that is defined by its main triad of characters (Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf) they don't make much of an impact. They aren't even all prominent in the games they appear in, bar Tetra and Tingle, who has his own game somehow (even then it never released in the US so RIP his chances).

Those 8 slots are more like 5.5 given that literally 3 of those characters are a semi-clone and two actual clones. Again, it's Smash fans complaining about the cherry on top of their cake. While Sakurai was worried about adding too many FE reps, that was for Sm4sh DLC. We're in a different field now. At that point Fates had yet to really prove itself, and Fire Emblem was only around half as popular as it is now (Echoes, Heroes, Warriors, and Three Houses all came out and solidified the series' success after Fates). I honestly think you're underestimating how immensely popular Three Houses is, and how much of a success it was for Nintendo. I think Sakurai would be a lot less apprehensive about adding a Three Houses rep now.

But the Zelda representation problem is an example of Sakurai not adjusting to how Zelda works. Zelda isn't like Mario or Pokemon where the casts stack so you can just keep adding because they always have a chance of coming back. And it's not like Fire Emblem where each game introduces a new protagonist who would work in Smash. Instead Zelda is left with "flavour of the week" characters because interesting characters outside of the core 3 (and Impa) tend to only stick around for a game or two.

Zelda has the downside of every "significant" (read: console) Zelda being in development far too close to the development of a Smash game. Melee and Majora, Brawl and Twilight, 4 and Skyward Sword and Ultimate and Breath of the Wild. So even if we wanted a "flavour of the week" character from those games, by the time the next game came out, they'd be out of the picture and the hype cycle moves on. Hell, it leads to a big problem in the Zelda fanbase where there isn't a consensus for who should be next in line.

But Zelda has options, Tetra, Pig Ganon and Wolf Link + Midna all fill the protagonist side and have interesting movesets. Impa is a recurring character in the franchise and Skull Kid is arguably the most popular antagonist outside of Ganon from a fan favourite game.

You're correct that Zelda fans have it great in everything outside of the characters, but that doesn't change the fact that the playable representations of the franchise are pretty terrible.

I love the Fire Emblem games, Awakening and Three Houses especially, but debating which Fire Emblem character gets in like it's an inevitability when the closest thing Zelda fans have to a character representing the recent franchise in a playable sense is that Link wears the Breath of the Wild tunic gets a little exhausting.

Both series have been represented badly, and I wish people didn't pit the franchises against each other, but I know which franchise I think has been done a disservice to by Smash more.

[EDIT: just saw you covered a lot of these points in the post just above here]

 

[Zinith]

"Link, Zelda and Ganondorf perfectly represents the games"

So I guess Zelda fans whose favorite game specifically ignores that dynamic (like me) don't matter then?

 

[Idon]

Let's be real here, people care about characters way more than they do stages, music, assist trophies, etc etc.

You would be hard-pressed to find a person willing to give up any sort of character, even an echo/clone or heck, even a character they dislike, for any number of side-content like that.

 

[BZL8]

I can see them dropping Corrin since their inclusion was flavor of the month and time hasn't been well to them with popularity (not that they were well received in the first place), but there's little to no reason to cut clones

For all the grievances I have about Corrin in their game, I am personally against cutting them; I consider them and Robin to be the most unique FE characters on the roster and the series really needs to be represented by more unique representatives (having a rep that doesn't wield a sword would help a lot).

 

[Deleted member]

Let's be real here, people care about characters way more than they do stages, music, assist trophies, etc etc.

You would be hard-pressed to find a person willing to give up any sort of character, even an echo/clone or heck, even a character they dislike, for any number of side-content like that.

Except for me who would give up a character for more music. Replace a character I dislike even if just an echo (Dark Pit) for some more Golden Sun tracks, Wario tracks, Undertale tracks and some Super Mario RPG music and I'd be satisfied.

I assume any of the characters are a favorite of someones like how every Pokemon have their fans which is why nobody would really want music, stages, Assist Trophies, Etc. over characters plus people want to play as their character not see them be controlled by an AI and experience them that way and I can understand that as I would rather have the characters I want playable than an Assist. (Except for Duster cause the dude will never happen so I'd take an AT).

 

[Zinith]

Zelda has grown a lot in terms of lore since Ocarina of Time. Even Twilight Princess dealt with how the eternal conflict between the three affects other realms and kingdoms (in this case the Twili). It wouldn't nearly be as well remembered without the Twilight elements

 

[DevaAshera]

Zelda has 3 unique play styles and the series villain is a clone of a character from a different franchise with a made up moveset. PLUS Zelda hasn't had a new rep since Brawl and even that was a replacement for a character introduced in Melee.

Fire Emblem has four original movesets and more playable characters, and has had a new playable character in every Smash game since Melee. And its had a new original moveset added in every game but Ultimate.

Fire Emblem has an abundance of clones which means it doesn't represent the franchise well, but Zelda has been lacking on the playable character side for almost 20 years now. Despite, on paper, being a top 5 Nintendo franchise.

I mean, that's kinda owed to the difference in how characters are done between The Legend of Zelda and Fire Emblem.
The Legend of Zelda has reoccuring characters with the rest being one offs that rarely, if ever, re-appear in the series whereas Fire Emblem has a constantly changing roster. If you notice, the Zelda series has its main character (the Links), main secondary character (Zelda), and main villain (Ganondorf) whereas Fire Emblem only consists of main characters with no secondary characters or villains.
This is because in order to remain current with the Fire Emblem series, a new character needs to included while in the Legend of Zelda series all you need to do is update at least one character to their current design (as was done with Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf between Melee and Brawl, changing from their previous Ocarina of Time designs to their then current Twilight Princess designs..which were only kept for 3DS/Wii U due to Ganondorf not having a Skyward Sword design to match Link & Zelda, so Skyloft was included as a stage instead..and then changed to just make Link match his current design due to BotW's popularity while Zelda & Ganondorf were changed to designs from popular games (LttP/LBW & OoT respectively). This was also kind of done with Young Link being replaced by Toon Link, the current design that tends to be used for young Links.
The issue with Zelda is that almost every character that could be added is a one-off character that can't really do that. Like Midna & Ghirahim are popular characters, but they'll likely never be seen in the series again outside of a spin-off like Hyrule Warriors (Sheik is an outlier, but she was originally tied to Zelda) so instead of a new character, Sakurai instead chooses to include representation for the new games through either design changes or new stages. Fire Emblem can't really do this since it doesn't tend to have any visually unique areas that would work well to make a stage from.

That said, the Zelda series does have 3 characters that reoccur in the series aside from Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, these three being Impa, Tingle, and..uh..Dampé of all people..
Impa could easily be made into a clone of Sheik or based on Hyrule Warriors with a naginata (though I kinda doubt they would)
Tingle could easily be made into a unique character..but his popularity is really only a thing in Japan while they know the West doesn't tend to like the character..which could prevent them from using him.
Dampé...would never happen.

I can see them dropping Corrin since their inclusion was flavor of the month and time hasn't been well to them with popularity (not that they were well received in the first place), but there's little to no reason to cut clones. They're extremely easy to develop/port to new games, so I don't think Sakurai would cut fan-favorite characters like Roy, Lucina, and Chrom just for the sake of it. Lucina and Chrom were added for their proven popularity from Awakening, and while Binding Blade still isn't localized Roy has created his own fanbase with his Smash legacy.

Honestly, I think Sakurai would try to keep Corrin due to having a unique moveset, characters like Roy, Lucina, and Chrom are more likely to dropped due to being too similar to Marth, regardless of their popularity. I think Sakurai favors uniqueness more than popularity.

 

[IAmGiles]

Just to clarify, Skull Kid is NOT just a bandwagon character. When Sakurai announced his assist trophy status for Smash 4 on miiverse, he had to explicitly state that Skull Kid was not playable. He knew the demand way back then, and that demand has only grown, as evidenced by the chair theory.

In my opinion, it's also difficult to understand the argument that Skull Kid is flavor of the week. He and Majora's Mask are perhaps the second most iconic part of the Zelda franchise, and the most unforgettable aspect of the entire franchise imo.

Also, to get technical, he does appear in three different games, so he is a repeat character to some extent.

Honestly, I would be pretty hype for Dampe. Gravedigger moveset would be siiick, and the surprise factor would be amazing to behold. It'd be like Pirahna Plant part two

 

[KatKit]

Link has gotten Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword (somewhat), and Breath of the Wild makeovers over the years, complete with updates to his moveset. Out of all of the original veterans (sans Kirby), his moves have been tweaked the most since Melee. My boy also has gotten an alternate costume and a few highly detailed palette swaps that may as well be considered alternate costumes. Shiek hasn't been a thing since Ocarina of Time and she still ended up with 3 different designs. Zelda got a new look and personality in Ultimate and a new voice; meanwhile Jigglypuff is still using sound clips from the N64. Ultimate didn't get many new stages, but Zelda managed to get one despite already having a large variety (that are very high quality) and a boss battle. One-off side characters people want playable? Many are in as assist trophies and/or spirits. Items? We got plenty. Song selection? Solid. Mii costumes? We got some of that, too. If I wasn't a huge Zelda fan, I'd learn more about it playing Smash over the years than most other series. I love Zelda, and I'd be down for more playable characters, but the representation it has in Smash is far from lacking. If they end up adding another character from the series, it'll probably end up being a different form of Zelda lol. Then dang near everybody but Zelda fans will be mad and we'll be the new Fire Emblem.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think Zelda is represented well (though they could differentiate the Links some more), but I see nothing wrong with wanting more characters from the series. We probably shouldn’t expect more, especially not for DLC, but basically telling fans to shut up about it/it ain’t gonna happen is annoying. It’s a videogame...let people try, let them be hyped if they want, anybody worth your time can deal with it in the end if nothing changes. They shouldn’t quit just because nothing is changing, that will just ensure nothing ever changes (though I can understand the people that feel like giving up, speculation and waiting and stuff probably gets too dang tiring for them and I can see why).

Just to clarify, Skull Kid is NOT just a bandwagon character. When Sakurai announced his assist trophy status for Smash 4 on miiverse, he had to explicitly state that Skull Kid was not playable. He knew the demand way back then, and that demand has only grown, as evidenced by the chair theory.

In my opinion, it's also difficult to understand the argument that Skull Kid is flavor of the week. He and Majora's Mask are perhaps the second most iconic part of the Zelda franchise, and the most unforgettable aspect of the entire franchise imo.

Also, to get technical, he does appear in three different games, so he is a repeat character to some extent.

Plus, people were mad when he wasn’t playable with the Majora’s Mask DLC in Hyrule Warriors.

I don’t get why “bandwagon pick” is thrown around to downplay him; he’s still iconic and popular, and a lot of people who fell for Chair Theory and loz18 still genuinely liked the character. Some people don’t think much about a character for Smash even if they like them, but still like the idea and may even start actively pushing for it once something causes it to cross their mind. Some people also don’t say much or push things due to feeling like nothing’s gonna change.

 

[RoboFist]

Both series have been represented badly, and I wish people didn't pit the franchises against each other, but I know which franchise I think has been done a disservice to by Smash more.

That right there.

I won't share my opinion on the matter here (since that seems all but pointless and any civil argument we try to reach results in both sides spinning their wheels until they become distracted by another topic), but I think that one bit sums it up well enough.

I just remember how overjoyed I was when I saw Young Link was coming back, then that feeling of complete devastation upon seeing that he's just Smash 4 Link with fire arrows and a better boomerang. No alt costume with the Razor Sword and Mirror Shield, no Fierce Deity Final Smash, no clever references to his transformation masks in even his taunts or victory animations. No trace of Majora's Mask in his moveset whatsoever.

Don't get me wrong, I'm super grateful that Great Bay is back, and I love the TLC that went into the Skull Kid Mii costume, but...Breath of the Wild, Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker are all such strikingly different games with strikingly different incarnations of Link. Their tiny little differences in Smash seem completely arbitrary. It's incredible that they're all back, but no, the three Links don't collectively make good representation.

...Okay, now I'll stop sharing my opinion on the matter here haha. Gotta put this shovel down and stop digging myself deeper into this hole.

 

[Jassassino]

https://twitter.com/PVMAGKVIDEOS/status/1173919279881867265

Thoughts?

really reminds me of what Friends stands for:

Feebee, Rachel, It's Joey! Everybody is friends, Nonica, Dross, Shandler

 

[IAmGiles]

We can argue about one off characters in Zelda all we want. Ultimately, when we're talking about specific Zelda characters, I think our positions will come down to whether or not we think those specific characters had a substantial enough impact to justify their inclusion.

For example, I think Skull Kid and Midna are unforgettable and deserve to be playable, but Ghirahim or Vaati are fine where they are.

One thing that cannot be debated is that while the Zelda series has many one-off characters, the series also has many mainstay RACES that have yet to be represented in any significant sense. By focusing only on Hylians, Smash is missing out on much of the wonderful diversity that makes Hyrule and other Zelda locales feel so alive.

I'm talking Gorons. I'm talking Zora's. I'm talking Deku Scrubs, Ritos, Gerudos (even though Gabondorf technically is Gerudo lol), Kokiri, Koroks, Fairies, heck even those Mole men from Skyward Sword.

At a certain point, proper Zelda representation would include a playable character from one of the non-human races that make Zelda so distinct and so fun to explore in the first place.

Who cares if it's a one off character? We need a Darunia, or a Ruto, or a Kass. This is the untapped potential of the Zelda series, and the main reason the current playable fighter representation feels so lacking, even while Link and Zelda get consistent makeovers. Makeovers mean next to nothing when so much is still missing.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Just to clarify, Skull Kid is NOT just a bandwagon character. When Sakurai announced his assist trophy status for Smash 4 on miiverse, he had to explicitly state that Skull Kid was not playable. He knew the demand way back then, and that demand has only grown, as evidenced by the chair theory.

The reason it had to be stressed was not because of demand. It was because Skull Kid was the first newly revealed AT on Miiverse. Midna and Ghirahim were more popular picks than SKull Kid back then. This go around Skull Kid got the same thing Ghirahim got last time, the last man standing effect, except this time it was propped up by a fake leaker.

 

[TheYungLink]

You know what Zelda antagonist is a recurring threat, and also shows up in more games than Vaati, Skull Kid, and Twinrova?

Here's a hint: they're sort of already in Smash, except not. They even have a boss fight, but it's not the form of this antagonist that is highly associated with the early part of the Zelda series, or some of the later 2D entries. They in fact have a design that has been consistently used whenever they appear in a 2D Zelda compared to this character's 3D appearances.

I'll link the answer here but I'll add that yes, the core Zelda cast is pretty well-represented, and I always completely understood why series like Fire Emblem and Pokémon consistently got newcomers with each installment and I never felt bad about their getting newcomers while Zelda stayed pretty constant compared to other Zelda fans here. But that doesn't mean I don't want more, or that I don't feel that even the core Zelda cast feels complete yet.

 

[Koopaul]

Talking about Zelda huh? I'm not even certain any of the DLC will be first party. But if it is, the only 1st party characters I see happening are the ones that are hugely requested, or ones that promote a new Nintendo game. If they did put in a new Zelda fighter it might be from Breath of the Wild's sequel.