Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

I think if Doom Slayer hadn't shown up in that first rumor leak, nobody would be talking about him. He's another in a long line of characters where a fake leak created speculation and requests where there wasn't any before.

Doom made a comeback in recent years so I feel regardless of if he was leaked or not, people would've brought him up in context of Smash. I think it's a bit unfair to use that as an argument, there are plenty of characters that could fit the same bill but that doesn't mean they were never requested or wanted at all.

I mean, who would've expected Simon Belmont to be added in Ultimate?

 

[PLATINUM7]

I think if Doom Slayer hadn't shown up in that first rumor leak, nobody would be talking about him. He's another in a long line of characters where a fake leak created speculation and requests where there wasn't any before.

Not saying he's impossible, or that he doesn't deserve a slot, but thinking he's a likely pick is bizarre to me.

I don't know, we have nearly every Doom game on Switch. I'm sure some people would jump from that kind of support to wanting Doom Slayer in Smash.

 

[greenluigiman2]

I think if Doom Slayer hadn't shown up in that first rumor leak, nobody would be talking about him. He's another in a long line of characters where a fake leak created speculation and requests where there wasn't any before.

Not saying he's impossible, or that he doesn't deserve a slot, but thinking he's a likely pick is bizarre to me.

I thought Doom Slayer was a good candidate back in the Smash 4 days. I think he's very likely for reasons unrelated to that rumor. In fact, the reason he was included in that fake leak is because he makes so much sense as a Smash character.

 

[RouffWestie]

Seeing all these arguments about iconic characters is funny as hell when most people here seemed to go ape**** about Banjo despite Banjo easily being the least popular franchise added by the Fighter Pass if we count Terry as KoF which we kinda should as the trailer and stage indicate

Despite the fact that Sakurai literally acknowledged how he was a highly popular request alongside Ridley and K. Rool.
Which we already knew but detractors continued to try to convince us otherwise.
And apparenlty they're still goong at it even though he's already in.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

As far as I'm aware, Doomguy started climbing the polls after Cloud and later Bayonetta laughed in the face of our so called rules. Then when Doom 2016 was confirmed for the Switch it was on the up and up

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Despite the fact that Sakurai literally acknowledged how he was a highly popular request alongside Ridley and K. Rool.
Which we already knew but detractors continued to try to convince us otherwise.
And apparenlty they're still goong at it even though he's already in.

This isn't even a jab, it's just a fact that Persona and KoF are bigger and generally more welknown franchises than Banjo. I get that my distaste of Banjo is wellknown enough to the point I've gotten harassed over it but this is the second time in the span of 24 hours I've been given **** for saying mere facts without even saying my opinion on the matter

 

[culumon]

This isn't even a jab, it's just a fact that Persona and KoF are bigger and generally more welknown franchises than Banjo.

This is a metric near-impossible to gauge, though. I'm not going to pretend my anecdotes are objective proof of anything either, but the fact that when I've had to elaborate to friends/coworkers/family about who the likes of Bayonetta, Simon, Joker and Terry even are when telling them they got in Smash yet have never had to do so for Banjo tells a very different story, and again, I'm not going to pretend that story indicates some objective universal truth of the matter, but it certainly throws every claim of "Banjo is the least well known third party in Smash" into doubt for me.

 

[Nquoid]

This isn't even a jab, it's just a fact that Persona and KoF are bigger and generally more welknown franchises than Banjo. I get that my distaste of Banjo is wellknown enough to the point I've gotten harassed over it but this is the second time in the span of 24 hours I've been given **** for saying mere facts without even saying my opinion on the matter

Iconic means different things to different people. But if we're going to claim that Persona is iconic, a franchise that didn't start getting its (very much deserved) respect until a Vita port of Persona 4, then we can easily shift that to just how iconic Rare, and by extension Banjo, was during the N64 era. Rare was a household name back then and no amount of mismanagement in the 2000s will change that.

But really arguing which characters are or arent iconic is asinine. Every 3rd party character in Smash is iconic in their own way and deserves to be there. If you've got distaste for modern icons like Bayonetta or Joker. Or distaste taste for more retro characters like Banjo or Terry, then fine. But every character deserves to be in smash by the only metric that matters, Sakurai's

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This is a metric near-impossible to gauge, though. I'm not going to pretend my anecdotes are objective proof of anything either, but the fact that when I've had to elaborate to friends/coworkers/family about who the likes of Bayonetta, Simon, Joker and Terry even are when telling them they got in Smash yet have never had to do so for Banjo tells a very different story, and again, I'm not going to pretend that story indicates some objective universal truth of the matter, but it certainly throws every claim of "Banjo is the least well known third party in Smash" into doubt for me.

I mean, despite being surrounded by more platformer players and youtubers I've always seen more of KoF. I only learned Banjo Kazooie was even a thing in the Smash 4 speculation period and all of my friends are the same outside of literally 2. King of Fighters though? Saw that **** in magazines a lot, heard it discussed a lot on the internet, on other forums and with friends. Y'all have a victim complex I swear. Wait till you hear how many reused moves Banjo has lmao

 

[mynameisBlade]

I mean, despite being surrounded by more platformer players and youtubers I've always seen more of KoF. I only learned Banjo Kazooie was even a thing in the Smash 4 speculation period and all of my friends are the same outside of literally 2. King of Fighters though? Saw that **** in magazines a lot, heard it discussed a lot on the internet, on other forums and with friends. Y'all have a victim complex I swear. Wait till you hear how many reused moves Banjo has lmao

Not going to lie.... When me and the huge group of friends, family, and some coworkers I have watch these Directs together, we are always blown away by the more recognizeable things.

Terry Bogard was not one of them.. Not a single person..adult teen or sibling around me knew who that was..... BUT Banjo....lol. Now that was lotsa great **** hitting the fan on that day. I'm not against Terry and think he is still neat though..

 

[Flyboy]

I have many "best case" scenarios for my mind. Looking at it, I think we'll get a Terry showcase in November and at the end of it they'll either reveal the final pass character or hint towards it (Game Awards still possible).

I want to believe the fifth will be Layton just because the color theory matches (orange shirt) and also because his trailer could easily end with an OBJECTION! and have a dual reveal with Phoenix as the first post-pass character.

But I'm a dreamer.

To me with the new pass it feels as though if Geno doesn't get in he may get a Sans-esque costume with new music. The proportions make sense and with a full model swap like Sans he could look really good. I'm not even on the Geno train, I just feel like he's very possible at this point as either a bonus fighter or advanced costume.

My other personal picks for people on the table are 2B (massively popular and truly excellent game, Sakurai loves the Nier/Drakengard series, character herself is very popular), Travis Touchdown (creator has wanted him in since Brawl, Nintendo-associated series, No More Heroes 3 is coming soon, Travis Strikes Again really expanded his moveset), Arle Nadja (popular Japanese request, Puyo Puyo is really blowing up in the US with Champions, PPT, and now the original Puyo Puyo 2 on the SNES Online), Sora (massive fan request, series is now complete-ish), and a Tales Of character (Lloyd is most likely, though my personal want is Velvet - either way you get a praised game, character, and series, and the appeal of the Big Three JRPGs in a single game is too much to ignore).

It also wouldn't surprise me to see Waluigi added as well. If the Sans Mii shows anything it's that sometimes, loud voices work, for better or for worse. Now that we know everything is back on the table we really do live in a wild west, though in my eyes we probably will continue to get surprising picks that add "worlds" to the series along with classic fan favorites.

But maybe we'll get something crazy and this is how Style Savvy can still win--

 

[3BitSaurus]

I personally don't have much faith in the concept, but... what if we got a Sony character? Who would have the best chances?

I'd say Kratos, but I don't know if he does well in the east... if we're going classic, maybe Ratchet, Parappa or Spike from Ape Escape? If we're going modern, maybe Kat from Gravity Rush?

Just throwing it out there because we don't know what to expect from the next season.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Why does everyone's argument only boil down to the US and Japan mattering?

SNK's games are massive in South America.

 

[Nekoo]

Why does everyone's argument only boil down to the US and Japan mattering?

laugh in Europe not having anything and being the Scapegoat of Sakurai to say that Bayonetta "won" and was "1st"

 

[Flyboy]

Why does everyone's argument only boil down to the US and Japan mattering?

SNK's games are massive in South America.

And China!

It was clear that this was a pick that was a combination of a good working relationship (SNK ported all their classic arcade games to the Switch early on and they sold massively), Sakurai passion (KOF inspired Smash), and as Nintendo has been saying again and again a new demographic (Latin America and China, which is a market Nintendo is trying to breach).

As always it's worth looking at what market can Nintendo capture with the DLC outside of the worldwide one? And that's why I really think Phoenix or Layton could be next.

 

[HyruleHero]

laugh in Europe not having anything and being the Scapegoat of Sakurai to say that Bayonetta "won" and was "1st"

Europe was Banjo and Kazooie as well as K. Rool. Any Rare Representation is for Europe seeing as it was made in the UK (last time I checked the Uk was in Europe).

My other personal picks for people on the table are 2B (massively popular and truly excellent game, Sakurai loves the Nier/Drakengard series, character herself is very popular), Travis Touchdown (creator has wanted him in since Brawl, Nintendo-associated series, No More Heroes 3 is coming soon, Travis Strikes Again really expanded his moveset), Arle Nadja (popular Japanese request, Puyo Puyo is really blowing up in the US with Champions, PPT, and now the original Puyo Puyo 2 on the SNES Online), Sora (massive fan request, series is now complete-ish), and a Tales Of character (Lloyd is most likely, though my personal want is Velvet - either way you get a praised game, character, and series, and the appeal of the Big Three JRPGs in a single game is too much to ignore).

As much as I understand the love for Nier Automata and 2B if we are getting another Square Character it better be Lara Croft, she is the single most prominent female protagonist figure in gaming after all (close with Chun Li maybe).

 

[Nekoo]

Europe was Banjo and Kazooie as well as K. Rool. Any Rare Representation is for Europe seeing as it was made in the UK (last time I checked the Uk was in Europe).

Just because the company is European, doesn't mean that the Characters were made for that demographic.
I can tell you that quite a bit of European I know, and I'm part of, doesn't feel anything or are just "well that's cool" about both of theses Characters. We're just here waiting for Isaac for a big part (for some reasons, we love Isaac)

Banjo and K.Rool truly saw a MASSIVE push in the U.S

 

[Curious Villager]

Europe was Banjo and Kazooie as well as K. Rool. Any Rare Representation is for Europe seeing as it was made in the UK (last time I checked the Uk was in Europe).

I mean, by that logic every character not named Diddy Kong, K.Rool, Dark Samus and Banjo Kazooie is for Japan just because they where made there.
And if I'm not mistaken, certain characters/franchises are more popular overseas than in Japan.

 

[zferolie]

I mean, by that logic every character not named Diddy Kong, K.Rool, Dark Samus and Banjo Kazooie is for Japan just because they where made there.
And if I'm not mistaken, certain characters/franchises are more popular overseas than in Japan.

Metroid is a key example of that. Historically all the them sold poorly in japan, and when they tried to make it to appeal more to the japanese we got other m

 

[Nquoid]

Just because the company is European, doesn't mean that the Characters were made for that demographic.
I can tell you that quite a bit of European I know, and I'm part of, doesn't feel anything or are just "well that's cool" about both of theses Characters. We're just here waiting for Isaac for a big part (for some reasons, we love Isaac)

Banjo and K.Rool truly saw a MASSIVE push in the U.S

As a Brit, I'd content the opposite. Banjo is the character that has gotten the most attention and most people I know with Smash have only bought Banjo from the pass.

But then I'm right at that generation whom Rare was most relevant too

 

[culumon]

I mean, despite being surrounded by more platformer players and youtubers I've always seen more of KoF. I only learned Banjo Kazooie was even a thing in the Smash 4 speculation period and all of my friends are the same outside of literally 2. King of Fighters though? Saw that **** in magazines a lot, heard it discussed a lot on the internet, on other forums and with friends. Y'all have a victim complex I swear. Wait till you hear how many reused moves Banjo has lmao

Right, and it's perfectly reasonable that if, throughout your life, you were exposed to King of Fighters more than Banjo, you'd be led to believe one is more prevalent in the public consciousness than the other. The opposite has been true for me. Neither of our anecdotes are objective proof one way or the other regarding either series' popularity. Don't see how believing that makes me have a victim complex, but you do you.

 

[Flyboy]

Clearly the proper European choice should be Dizzy.

 

[Deleted member]

Clearly the proper European choice should be Dizzy.

Guilty Gear?

 

[Flyboy]

Guilty Gear?

The Fantastic Adventures of Dizzy

(A Guilty Gear rep would make me lose my **** though)

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It obviously depends on where and how you grew up, as well as when you got into gaming, but the only thing I had ever heard of King of Fighters was that it was at an EVO that I watched many years ago, and up until Nakoruru was brought up in Smash speculation relatively recently that was the only thing I had ever heard about anything SNK. Fighting games aren't really that big in Scandinavia, so that hasn't helped, but even then games like Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat and Marvel vs Capcom have been the frontrunners of the genre for the longest time now, so if you're not that interested in the genre to begin with (which I wasn't growing up) it's likely that something like King of Fighters won't be something you'll remember, if you've even ever been exposed to it.

Meanwhile I've known about Banjo-Kazooie from pretty much the day I seriously got into Nintendo gaming, and I've never even owned a N64, I even disliked them at one point because of how much they were talked about during the runup to Nuts & Bolts. I suppose it's because I've heard about them for so long that I've grown to have sympathy with their fans, almost every E3 there are hopes of Banjo-Threeie, and that's something I've been following for like a decade or so now, so it's been impossible for me to not know about them, even if I or none of my friends actually grew up with them.

I don't think it matters much though, personally I think we're well past the point where our 3rd party characters have to exclusively be legendary icons of gaming as a whole. I kinda like Terry's inclusion because he was rather unknown to me, it gives me a view into a gaming culture that means a lot to other people, and that I didn't know much, if anything about.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Right, and it's perfectly reasonable that if, throughout your life, you were exposed to King of Fighters more than Banjo, you'd be led to believe one is more prevalent in the public consciousness than the other. The opposite has been true for me. Neither of our anecdotes are objective proof one way or the other regarding either series' popularity. Don't see how believing that makes me have a victim complex, but you do you.

Not you specifically but Banjo fans in general. I even got blasted by Banjo fans for saying "Holy **** the highest view count on the Youtube channels for Smash is for Hero's Japanese trailer, that's impressive!"

I mean, Joker and Hero had people talk about them constantly when they launched yet I've only seen a small amount of Banjo stuff on my social media accounts and have to go out of my way for information on his strengths or weaknesses. Didn't have to do that for Joker or Hero at Day 1, my twitter was goddamn flooded with that ****

Also lmao that the current discussion is Guilty Gear cause I've been talking about how cool Sol is lately

 

[HyruleHero]

Not you specifically but Banjo fans in general. I even got blasted by Banjo fans for saying "Holy **** the highest view count on the Youtube channels for Smash is for Hero's Japanese trailer, that's impressive!"

I mean, Joker and Hero had people talk about them constantly when they launched yet I've only seen a small amount of Banjo stuff on my social media accounts and have to go out of my way for information on his strengths or weaknesses. Didn't have to do that for Joker or Hero at Day 1, my twitter was goddamn flooded with that ****

Also lmao that the current discussion is Guilty Gear cause I've been talking about how cool Sol is lately

Well I think there were more discussion on Hero simply because everyone thought he was broken, might have been the same for Joker as well. Banjo is a much more tame addition at first glance from his moveset. You can see the Banjo discussion in the thread here though.

I don't have anything against people who think Banjo wasn't a great addition but its not like he isn't popular or represent something for Nintendo. Simply put Hero was a HUGE announcement so Banjo was never going to beat him but any famous youtuber or gamer that wants to experience fun games from the past will always be recommended to play Banjo-Kazooie. Banjo means something to N64 Era Nintendo fans.

 

[RileyXY1]

Well I think there were more discussion on Hero simply because everyone thought he was broken, might have been the same for Joker as well. Banjo is a much more tame addition at first glance from his moveset. You can see the Banjo discussion in the thread here though.

I don't have anything against people who think Banjo wasn't a great addition but its not like he isn't popular or represent something for Nintendo. Simply put Hero was a HUGE announcement so Banjo was never going to beat him but any famous youtuber or gamer that wants to experience fun games from the past will always be recommended to play Banjo-Kazooie. Banjo means something to N64 Nintendo fans.

And not only that, Banjo & Kazooie are owned by Microsoft, who is a competitor to Nintendo in the console market.

 

[Green Donuts]

Damn almost at 500

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Well I think there were more discussion on Hero simply because everyone thought he was broken, might have been the same for Joker as well. Banjo is a much more tame addition at first glance from his moveset. You can see the Banjo discussion in the thread here though.

I don't have anything against people who think Banjo wasn't a great addition but its not like he isn't popular or represent something for Nintendo. Simply put Hero was a HUGE announcement so Banjo was never going to beat him but any famous youtuber or gamer that wants to experience fun games from the past will always be recommended to play Banjo-Kazooie. Banjo means something to N64 Era Nintendo fans.

All DLC characters are popular for their own respective reasons and in their own ways. Lots of variables attached to that too. It's fine to dislike characters for whatever reason, if we all liked the same stuff the world would be very boring! But outright denying that one/a few characters aren't popular shows one or all of lack of maturity, a lack of basic comprehension skills and/or a agenda/narrative to push. As a franchise and character who has a presence in Smash, arguably you've had to have made a sizable impact one way or another to even make it. Arguing otherwise is illogical and borderline foolish.

 

[dezeray112]

It obviously depends on where and how you grew up, as well as when you got into gaming, but the only thing I had ever heard of King of Fighters was that it was at an EVO that I watched many years ago, and up until Nakoruru was brought up in Smash speculation relatively recently that was the only thing I had ever heard about anything SNK. Fighting games aren't really that big in Scandinavia, so that hasn't helped, but even then games like Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat and Marvel vs Capcom have been the frontrunners of the genre for the longest time now, so if you're not that interested in the genre to begin with (which I wasn't growing up) it's likely that something like King of Fighters won't be something you'll remember, if you've even ever been exposed to it.

Meanwhile I've known about Banjo-Kazooie from pretty much the day I seriously got into Nintendo gaming, and I've never even owned a N64, I even disliked them at one point because of how much they were talked about during the runup to Nuts & Bolts. I suppose it's because I've heard about them for so long that I've grown to have sympathy with their fans, almost every E3 there are hopes of Banjo-Threeie, and that's something I've been following for like a decade or so now, so it's been impossible for me to not know about them, even if I or none of my friends actually grew up with them.

I don't think it matters much though, personally I think we're well past the point where our 3rd party characters have to exclusively be legendary icons of gaming as a whole. I kinda like Terry's inclusion because he was rather unknown to me, it gives me a view into a gaming culture that means a lot to other people, and that I didn't know much, if anything about.

I've been into fighting games ever since Tekken 3 and I didn't know anything about the King of Fighters or Street Fighter until I played Capcom Vs SNK 2: Mark of the Millenium 2001 on the Playstation 2 which is where I get to know the likes of Ryu, Chun-Li, Ken, Morrigan, Kyo, Terry, Ryo, Mai etc.

As for Banjo-Kazooie, it was when I played Diddy Kong Racing back on the Nintendo 64 (which was my first game ever for the console) that got me interested in other Rare franchises which eventually led to try out Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[SNEKeater]

I know all 4 of them. Don't consider any of them iconic. At least not on the level of any of the other 3P Smash characters. And that includes Terry.

If anything, being added to Smash is MAKING those characters iconic.

The only Smash characters I've ever "Literally who?"ed were Ice Climbers, Game & Watch and assorted FE characters.

Being in Smash helps, of course. But I would say that with fighters like Ness, Falcon or Marth back in the moment they were put in Smash.
Neither Joker or Bayonetta are incredible iconic, but I would argue that Joker is indeed very recognizable even before his inclusion in Smash. I wouldn't say he's iconic, maybe in the future yes.
Regarding Bayonetta, I think the word "iconic" suits her more than Joker. Even if she had only two games at this day, his games are well-known and her name (almost) always pops up when people talk about action games. I think she's iconic but not as much as other characters from action/hack n slash games like Kratos or Dante.

I personally don't have much faith in the concept, but... what if we got a Sony character? Who would have the best chances?

I'd say Kratos, but I don't know if he does well in the east... if we're going classic, maybe Ratchet, Parappa or Spike from Ape Escape? If we're going modern, maybe Kat from Gravity Rush?

Just throwing it out there because we don't know what to expect from the next season.

Honestly for me a Sony character would be the most shocking thing in Smash. Even more than some weird **** like Goku or Shrek. I think it will never happen, at least in the next years. Maybe things will change quite a bit in the future and a Sony character will sound more possible in next years, I don't know.

If you ask me I would like to see a Sony character. Maybe I'm a little biased but I think the only option is Kratos, he's by far his most iconic character. I would love Kratos, if I'm honest. There's Nathan Drake, Ratchet and Clank, Kat... cool options, I like these characters a lot. Maybe Drake would have serious options to joining Smash but in the end I think Kratos is the obvious choice.

I know it's almost impossible but I would love to have a Bayonetta vs. Kratos. vs. Dante in Smash, hahaha

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I personally don't have much faith in the concept, but... what if we got a Sony character? Who would have the best chances?

I'd say Kratos, but I don't know if he does well in the east... if we're going classic, maybe Ratchet, Parappa or Spike from Ape Escape? If we're going modern, maybe Kat from Gravity Rush?

Just throwing it out there because we don't know what to expect from the next season.

I think a very good and unique Sony character would be Sackboy from LittleBigPlanet. It's quite a unique game and at the same time I feel that Sackboy would fit well in the Smash bros universe. Also I remember back in the Ps3 era Sackboy was basically sony's mascot alongside Drake and Kratos. Right now LittleBigPlanet is a bit dead, but I'm sure it will be back some day.

That being said I don't think it will happen at all. None of Sony characters have a lot of demand (from what I've seen Kat is the most popular for some reason), and Sony are really not close with Nintendo.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I get that my distaste of Banjo is wellknown enough to the point I've gotten harassed over it but this is the second time in the span of 24 hours I've been given **** for saying mere facts without even saying my opinion on the matter

We have a similar outlook. The problem is simple, really; if someone doesn't like your character, so what, it's a video game. Look, we don't like Banjo-Kazooie either, really, but we aren't going to give people who are happy about their inclusion **** because we don't like Banjo-Kazooie. Frankly, it should be opinions that are challenged, and not people; therein lies the problem with society as a whole. Facts are facts; yeah, if they're false, then they should be challenged, but it's petty to challenge people based on an opinion that they haven't stated at the same time as stating a fact simply because you don't like their opinion. Video games are supposed to be fun, not just another means of getting at people's throats. That's not what creators, like Sakurai, want it to be.

 

[ze9]

This isn't even a jab, it's just a fact that Persona and KoF are bigger and generally more welknown franchises than Banjo. I get that my distaste of Banjo is wellknown enough to the point I've gotten harassed over it but this is the second time in the span of 24 hours I've been given **** for saying mere facts without even saying my opinion on the matter

Your definition of "facts" is pretty... interesting, but ok. Keep believing that if it helps you sleep at night. Banjo is in, and will remain in, no matter how much you *****

 

[DarthEnderX]

Doom made a comeback in recent years so I feel regardless of if he was leaked or not, people would've brought him up in context of Smash. I think it's a bit unfair to use that as an argument, there are plenty of characters that could fit the same bill but that doesn't mean they were never requested or wanted at all.

I don't know, we have nearly every Doom game on Switch. I'm sure some people would jump from that kind of support to wanting Doom Slayer in Smash.

I thought Doom Slayer was a good candidate back in the Smash 4 days. I think he's very likely for reasons unrelated to that rumor. In fact, the reason he was included in that fake leak is because he makes so much sense as a Smash character.

I'm not saying NOBODY would be requesting him. I'm saying that, without the leak, he wouldn't be the frontrunner that he is now, and would just be another character in the massive pile of potential candidates.

Being in Smash helps, of course. But I would say that with fighters like Ness, Falcon or Marth back in the moment they were put in Smash.

Oh, I wouldn't even try and argue that every Nintendo character is iconic. The 1st party characters have tons of characters that aren't iconic video game characters. I'm just talking about the 3Ps.

I mean, who would've expected Simon Belmont to be added in Ultimate?

I dunno about expected but he was my number one pick. Once Mega Man got in, I assumed it was only a matter of time.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

I personally don't have much faith in the concept, but... what if we got a Sony character? Who would have the best chances?

I'd say Kratos, but I don't know if he does well in the east... if we're going classic, maybe Ratchet, Parappa or Spike from Ape Escape? If we're going modern, maybe Kat from Gravity Rush?

Just throwing it out there because we don't know what to expect from the next season.

Sly Racoon or Ratchet and Clank would be my pick, you'd think their chances would be slim though.

Your definition of "facts" is pretty... interesting, but ok. Keep believing that if it helps you sleep at night. Banjo is in, and will remain in, no matter how much you *****

In general, some "facts" come from Cloud Cuckooland, but I digress. Speaking of which, a remix of Cloud Cuckooland would've been pretty sweet, shame Tooie didn't get as much love in the music department, but it is what it is.

 

[RoboFist]

Eh I don't know it could happen but I really hope that's not the case and that Geno is in. I feel like with how many fan requests have been fulfilled Geno isn't entirely out there anymore and Sakurai has been wanting the dude since Brawl if he could make Banjo-Kazooie happen and he's from a rival company I feel like they could get Geno.

Plus Square and Nintendo haven't been on this good of terms since the SNES era. Geno could just solidify that.

I don't want to get my hopes up (I'm not a Geno fan, but a lot of my friends are and all of this teasing is killing them), but...

- Sakurai has stated before that he's a fan of Geno and would love to see him in the game, even going as far as to have planned for him to have been in Brawl.
- Geno's Mii Costume in 4 got a Newcomer splash page (old news, but still relevant).
- I think it's fair to say that Joker getting into Smash was largely in thanks to Sakurai being such a huge fan of the Persona games. I really think his biases do matter.
- Banjo and Kazooie are characters that haven't had a proper game in over a decade, and haven't touched a Nintendo console in nearly two. Their relevance was non-existent, yet they got in because the fanbase was vocal enough.
- He stated specifically that the next batch of DLC fighters will provide more opportunities to delight fans.
- I have zero doubt that the Sans Mii Costume has already broken some kind of Mii Costume record in terms of sales by now. Sakurai said straight up that they included Undertale representation because of high fan demand despite being such a niche property (and, hey, it really paid off...I'm not even an Undertale fan, but it cannot be understated just how many doors Sans has opened for this roster moving forward).
- Oh, and Geno's Mii Costume is still nowhere to be seen.

If Sakurai is seeing all of the Sans memes and pleas for Undertale in Smash, there is no way he hasn't seen the passionate outcry for Geno, a character that he is already a huge fan of himself. It's exactly because of Joker, Banjo, and Sans's inclusions in the game that I think Geno is a shoe-in at some point.

Again, I personally have no stakes in this race, but aside from Banjo, Ridley, and the poor Isaac fans, Geno fans seem to have been asking and waiting patiently the longest. If nothing else, I'd love to see him get in just to satisfy that group.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think Joker only represents Persona, Joker has nothing in his moveset relating to Shin Megami Tensei nor come with any other content from it .

Well, that's true, but I would still consider SMT represented, because it's part of the same franchise as Persona.

Like, Cloud doesn't really have anything to do with Final Fantasy Tactics, but I'd still consider FFT to be represented in Smash because it's part of Final Fantasy, and Final Fantasy is represented.

 

[YezenIRl]

This whole "iconic" thing is really a semantic debate. It depends where you draw the line.

Personally I don't think Joker is even close to Iconic. And that's coming from someone who had never heard of him before his Smash reveal, and now thinks he is just one of the best additions ever made to the roster. But to be iconic IMO requires at the minimum a level of fame and notoriety that rarely ever comes from one game. A one game character can only be iconic if that game really just defines or redefines a genre. Something like DQ3, Overwatch or maybe Undertale.

If we set the bar higher, I could even say that in order for a character to be considered iconic they have to be commonly recognizable. So Mario, Sonic, Pikachu, Pac Man, Donkey Kong, Link, Ryu, etc etc.