Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[osby]

Hey, I've been intending to ask this question (possibly again) after some time, but missed the chance to ask Blue about it. Has Sakurai ever added content from a series or game he doesn't like?

I don't think Sakurai ever claimed he dislikes a game franchise. Metroid and DKC fans used to accuse him of hating their series and we all know how that turned out.

 

[Icedragonadam]

This might just be silly to think about, but all the fighters in the Pass currently have cinematic Final Smashes (if there's a name for this, then idk what it's called). Joker has his All Out Attack, Hero has... well idk what it's called but it sure has a cutscene in it, and BK has that Jinjonator thing.

Could it be possible that the last 2 Fighters will have a cinematic Final Smash as well?

And here's the new random theory of the day!

Cinematic Universe Theory!

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think Sakurai ever claimed he dislikes a game franchise. Metroid and DKC fans used to accuse him of hating their series and we all know how that turned out.

I would say that at most, due to Sakurai trying to balance out content in giving a place to new franchises, old franchises that haven't appeared before alongside surprise characters like Duck Hunt and easy clones/echoes; a few franchises tend to receive the short end of the stick in representation.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Honestly, that leak does actually make sense to me (UT Rep + Waluigi), and while I'm going to say I'm neutral until we get solid evidence that this leak is fabricated, the reveal of somebody other than those two, the reveal of Sans, or the reveal of Waluigi after Frisk/Papyrus (the leak said it won't be Sans more than likely), I can see where Waluigi and the Undertale character come from.

Waluigi is, believe it or not, massively popular among casuals by mere virtue of being a Mario character; I really think people in the Smash speculation scene don't understand just how well-known Mario spin offs are, and how beloved they are by casuals worldwide: Waluigi is in one of the best selling Mario games ever, Mario Kart Wii. And, to be honest, when it comes to something as legendary and popular as Mario, I'm not quite sure Sakurai would have the same apprehension as with Corrin. Plus, while it would be a waste to scrap Waluigi's Assist Trophy, there's plenty of ways around it (disable the AT when Waluigi is played as, put AT Waluigi in a new outfit, replace it with a character who can do what he did, and there might be some solutions I didn't think up).

Personally, I think that even if you don't like, or even outright hate Waluigi (unless he is your least wanted by a country mile and a half), you have to admit the prospect of a character who effectively disconfirms DISCONFIRMATION AS A WHOLE (killing AT, Mii Costume, and Spirit disconfirmations in one fell swoop) would be very enticing to the Smash Bros. fandom, who would probably buy him en masse to prove to Nintendo they want more Assist promotions and Spirit promotions, while Waluigi practically sells himself to casuals.

Meanwhile, we have Undertale. I've previously discussed this at-length for the RTC thread, so I'll keep it short. I think I might have new information to go off of.

• Undertale is extremely popular and iconic for an indie game, being one that will shape the lives of the next generation.
• All of the DLC characters so far cater to old-school gamers (Three out of the four variants of Hero, Banjo & Kazooie) and adults (Luminary, Joker): there are no characters who are popular among children. Undertale would easily remedy this.
  • This may not be true in regards to Japan, but at least seems to be accurate for the United States. Anybody who wants to contend this point can.
• The relationship between Nintendo and indie developers has become one of the things Nintendo wants to push the most, making it likely that Undertale made the list.
• Toby Fox is a known fan of Smash Bros., as he was more preoccupied with the Ultimate teaser than the teaser for his own game, and Deltarune includes a reference to Smash Bros.
  • As an anecdote, another series that would get a fighter in Smash, Persona (specifically Persona 5 sub-series), includes a reference to Smash Bros. as well (unless this is fabricated). However, that doesn't mean it's an intentional hint.
• Sakurai is familiar with Undertale and has played it.
• As for why it wouldn't be Sans... (limiting myself to just Frisk and Papyrus).
  • Frisk is the primary hero, villain, and protagonist of the game. Sakurai may have been enticed by a moveset that could represent all of Undertale as opposed to only one third.
  • The Human has a back-up name to go by if Toby Fox does not want spoilers, though given Groove Coaster I won't hold it against Sans too much. Sans' primary combat abilities are spoilers.
  • Papyrus can do everything Sans can, sans Gaster Blasters, while these traits are not spoilery.
  • The most likely Undertale stage, the Last Corridor (official name of Judgement Hall), could feature Sans in the background, or even as the main element of the stage.
    • Other Undertale stages could feature Sans as an NPC.
  • It's possible Sans is among the DLC Spirits and Mii Costumes.
  • While Sans is more popular than Frisk and Papyrus, the gap is not that big, and all of them are very iconic and memorable characters to many people (Frisk is contentious about this, but Papyrus certainly is not that far away from Sans). Sans is simply the most memetic.

Even if the leak itself is fake, then I still believe at least Undertale is not off the table, and it would be very, very easy for Toby to just say "no lol i'm not involved with smash. just a fan" or something to that effect. I don't recall this ever happening, though. Waluigi is more contentious, but hey, everything's a rule until it's broken.

I'm very not certain in the idea that the Fighter's Pass, barring leaks, is a "one per company" deal, mostly because it feels like something that'd only be done to complete a quota and it doesn't sound like Sakurai cares about quotas. It's not a rule, but more likely than not it could come to pass that it's one character per company. One per series, on the other hand, is even more likely to be true because then you're not forging new ground, and as far as we've seen, second uniques are very unlikely as there seems to be a preference for new series, though not impossible until somebody says something.

I don't have anything to say on the "female with a projectile" other than if it were... you know who... I'd be a happy camper. But given the guy seems to be Japanese, he (and his source?) would know who Arle is. (Also, in the next game/pass I would say Arle's easily the likeliest puzzle game rep hands down, but right now I think Layton has a better argument. If Jibanyan gets in, though, Arle will be the likeliest again.) Spreading my wings so far that I can't talk about the current point.

I'm surprised you didn't mention the one thing that Undertale has going for it that most indie franchises do not.

It's massively popular in Japan.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Indie: I still think there is a shotfor Indies. Undertale has no chance whatsoever, sorry. I think the 3 biggest Indie chances atm are Shantae, Reimu, or Hollow Knight/Hornet. Shantae has the years behind her still keeping her possible. Touhou is absolutely massive in japan and many programms started with touhou fan games, plus no SHMUP rep. Last Nintendo is REALLY pushing Silksong, so that and having an indie studio make a zelda game shows they are trusting Indie studios. Hollow Knight won a ton of rewards and sold gangbusters. While some people say the knight is the best chance, I think Hornet may have a better one. She is the star of the game Nintendo is pushing hard. She is a very unique playstyle, and, most importantly, SHE HAS A PERSONALITY AND VOICE. These I feel make her the top choice for the series

Nintendo also pushed Undertale a bit, so I don't see how it has no chance.

 

[ProfPeanut]

Reggie does seem to deconfirm Waluigi. After all, he did specify that these characters would be "new to the series", which (assuming you don't interpret that as them merely being playable newcomers) wouldn't apply to someone like Waluigi, who's shown up even in Melee.

I do feel like we ought to revisit Reggie's statements from TGA (as well as the one with IGN that day) and review whether they still apply to our Fighters Pass characters so far:

- In regards to Joker: A flavor of how (Sakurai and co.) are approaching the DLC; emblematic of the approach they're taking
- Characters are "new to the series just like Joker".
- "Characters that you would not anticipate to be in SSBU"
- (Sakurai) wants characters that are unique, different, to bring them into the Smash Bros. environment

While no one would deny that Dragon Quest and Banjo-Kazooie are practically debuting in Smash, some might have issue with certain other qualifiers. The Hero, for example, appears to borrow a few moves and ideas from other swordsmen - not necessarily "unique" and "different" in a Smash context besides the MP system. And while Banjo wasn't wholeheartedly expected to make it, he's practically the poster boy for characters that people "anticipate" to be in Smash, given how long people have wanted him in and argued that he belonged.

But what do you guys think? Can Reggie's comments be taken for whole truth, should we loosen the exact definitions of his wording, or do we just toss out everything he said before?

 

[Nquoid]

Indie: I still think there is a shotfor Indies. Undertale has no chance whatsoever, sorry. I think the 3 biggest Indie chances atm are Shantae, Reimu, or Hollow Knight/Hornet. Shantae has the years behind her still keeping her possible. Touhou is absolutely massive in japan and many programms started with touhou fan games, plus no SHMUP rep. Last Nintendo is REALLY pushing Silksong, so that and having an indie studio make a zelda game shows they are trusting Indie studios. Hollow Knight won a ton of rewards and sold gangbusters. While some people say the knight is the best chance, I think Hornet may have a better one. She is the star of the game Nintendo is pushing hard. She is a very unique playstyle, and, most importantly, SHE HAS A PERSONALITY AND VOICE. These I feel make her the top choice for the series

Undertale is far, far more likely than Reimu. Reimu might be huge in Japan, but its more based around the culture of the franchise than the actual games. Undertale is a massively popular game to play AND has the surrounding culture to back it up. I don't think we're going to get an indie rep in the last 2 slots, but as far as I see it, the realistic expectations are characters from: Shovel Knight, Hollow Knight, Celeste, Undertale and Shantae.

 

[KingBroly]

I think the issue with Dragon Quest in Smash is that after how much we got out of Cloud/Final Fantasy in Smash, any representation from Square is very touch and go. Unexpected? No. But I'd say unlikely. Banjo & Kazooie, though, feels like it happened because of Microsoft's position in the marketplace and philosophy as a company today. If Rare and IP's belonged to Sony today, they wouldn't be happening, regardless of how they were doing. They feel great because they are unexpected because of the history behind Rare.

You could say that so far, all 3 characters belong to companies that were bought by/merged with other companies. Atlus with Sega, Enix with Square now Rare with Microsoft. From that end, another Bandai Namco rep could happen, as well as our first Tecmo Koei rep.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Reggie does seem to deconfirm Waluigi. After all, he did specify that these characters would be "new to the series", which (assuming you don't interpret that as them merely being playable newcomers) wouldn't apply to someone like Waluigi, who's shown up even in Melee.

I do feel like we ought to revisit Reggie's statements from TGA (as well as the one with IGN that day) and review whether they still apply to our Fighters Pass characters so far:

- In regards to Joker: A flavor of how (Sakurai and co.) are approaching the DLC; emblematic of the approach they're taking
- Characters are "new to the series just like Joker".
- "Characters that you would not anticipate to be in SSBU"
- (Sakurai) wants characters that are unique, different, to bring them into the Smash Bros. environment

While no one would deny that Dragon Quest and Banjo-Kazooie are practically debuting in Smash, some might have issue with certain other qualifiers. The Hero, for example, appears to borrow a few moves and ideas from other swordsmen - not necessarily "unique" and "different" in a Smash context besides the MP system. And while Banjo wasn't wholeheartedly expected to make it, he's practically the poster boy for characters that people "anticipate" to be in Smash, given how long people have wanted him in and argued that he belonged.

But what do you guys think? Can Reggie's comments be taken for whole truth, should we loosen the exact definitions of his wording, or do we just toss out everything he said before?

I think the only thing that should be taken is 'they're all third party characters, so yeah, nobody who has appeared in Smash before'. Most people believe we're getting all third parties anyway, so let's just put two and two together.

 

[Arcadenik]

For reference, there's this tweet he made.

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And then he later posted a tweet showing examples of what he meant - a boomerang and a Hammer Bro hammer.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

That could be a fan, a spear, a shuriken...

Sounds like Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden to me.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Sounds like Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden to me.

Ryu's not female.

 

[Nquoid]

Decided to make a list of the top 64 selling third party franchises without playable characters in Smash. Might be fun to do some kind of bracket to see what is the most popular franchise is

Spoiler: Top 64 List

Call of Duty
Grand Theft Auto
The Sims
Minecraft
Tetris
Assassin's Creed
Resident Evil
Tomb Raider
Halo
Battlefield
Just Dance
Crash Bandicoot
Monster Hunter
The Elder Scrolls
Bejeweled
Counter-Strike
Tekken
Fallout
Mortal Kombat
Borderlands
Lineage
Uncharted
Guitar Hero
Civilization
Medal of Honor
Red Dead
Diablo
The Witcher
Far Cry
God of War
Kingdom Hearts
Half-Life
Gears of War
Ratchet & Clank
Rayman
Bioshock
Puyo Puyo
Power Pros
Prince of Persia
Age of Empires
Frogger
Lemmings
Singstar
Spyro the Dragon
Total War
Mass Effect
Driver
Warcraft
Dynasty Warriors
Rock Band
Star Craft
Zuma
Devil May Cry
Professor Layton
Tales
Super Robot Wars
Bemani
Famista
Burnout
Gex
Hitman
Soul Calibur
Just Cause
Souls

Some of them definitely can get cut and add franchises like Dead Rising and Worms. But I decided to have a blanket acceptance on puzzle games and rhythm games. Racing and sports were a bit more flexible. But it might be easier to just cut a lot of those regardless. Feedback welcome!

 

[ramon_zer0]

I'm with the claim that Reggie's statement should not necessarily outright deconfirm Waluigi, but highly reduce the probability he'll show up in comparison to other names we throw around. His wording that the Fighters Pass would focus on characters that are "new to the series" means - at least to me - that I'm probably not going to put too much stock on anyone who has shown up before. Waluigi being an Assist Trophy - and a prominent one at that given that he was singled out as one of the first Assist Trophies introduced in Ultimate's reveal - doesn't instill me with confidence that he's going to suddenly up and about become a DLC fighter.

Also, finally got a look at that Source Gaming video detailing the Top 50 most wanted DLC characters from their poll, and the results are pretty interesting. Thought I'd give my impressions on who I'd possibly want to see from this list:

• Would likely kill for because of my personal interest/investment in them or their series: Dante, Scorpion, Leon Kennedy, Phoenix Wright, Cuphead, Travis Touchdown, Crash Bandicoot, Amaterasu
• Would've liked these but being a Spirit/AT/Mii Costume really dampens their odds: Shadow the Hedgehog, Rex and Pyra
• Wouldn't be as excited as that first tier but would be hype enough additions that I can enjoy: Doomguy, Ryu Hayabusa, Spyro, Professor Layton, Neku, Master Chief, Sora, Monster Hunter, Lloyd Irving, Klonoa, Lara Croft, 2B, Isaac, Elma, Hollow Knight
• Probably going to be neutral or apathetic: Reimu, Chorus Kids, Ashley, Monokuma, Dixie Kong, Paper Mario, Shantae, Bandana Dee, Karate Joe, Porky Minch, Quote, TF2 Heavy, Tails, Crono, Chibi Robo, Arle
• Pretty overrated choices IMO and probably the characters I'd like to see the least: Waluigi, Sans, Steve, Geno
• Goku: Goku (Not gonna lie, I'd rather Smash stay a gaming-only crossover)

 

[Arcadenik]

Ryu's not female.

Obviously. But in that specific tweet, he said “new Fighter Pass character has ‘Flying Weapon’”. He did not say “female Fighter Pass character has ‘Flying Weapon’” or “female fighting game character has ‘Flying Weapon’”.

 

[Ornl]

Reggie does seem to deconfirm Waluigi. After all, he did specify that these characters would be "new to the series", which (assuming you don't interpret that as them merely being playable newcomers) wouldn't apply to someone like Waluigi, who's shown up even in Melee.

While no one would deny that Dragon Quest and Banjo-Kazooie are practically debuting in Smash, some might have issue with certain other qualifiers. The Hero, for example, appears to borrow a few moves and ideas from other swordsmen - not necessarily "unique" and "different" in a Smash context besides the MP system. And while Banjo wasn't wholeheartedly expected to make it, he's practically the poster boy for characters that people "anticipate" to be in Smash, given how long people have wanted him in and argued that he belonged.

But what do you guys think? Can Reggie's comments be taken for whole truth, should we loosen the exact definitions of his wording, or do we just toss out everything he said before?

Don't forget the Hero magic, which is unique, different, and some still mysterious.
With Banjo, it seems that anticipation could apply to any new character.

Decided to make a list of the top 64 selling third party franchises without playable characters in Smash. Might be fun to do some kind of bracket to see what is the most popular franchise is

Bayonetta, Castlevania, Persona and Banjo (4/11 third party licenses) aren't in the top of sales :S

 

[Curious Villager]

Bayonetta, Castlevania, Persona and Banjo (4/11 third party licenses) aren't in the top of sales :S

He was referring to series without playable characters.
I would have expected Castlevania to be up there at the very least otherwise.

 

[Nquoid]

He was referring to series without playable characters.
I would have expected Castlevania to be up there at the very least otherwise.

Castlevania has 20 million sales, putting it at about the level of Frogger and Prince of Persia

 

[Ornl]

He was referring to series without playable characters.
I would have expected Castlevania to be up there at the very least otherwise.

I understood, but these licenses would be at the bottom of the ranking.

 

[Nquoid]

I understood, but these licenses would be at the bottom of the ranking.

But Sonic, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, Metal Gear, Dragon Quest, Mega Man and Pac-Man are higher up. And using my method, Castlevania and Shin Megami Tensei would both be included. Bayonetta and Banjo are the only outliers and even then, both Bayonetta and Banjo-Kazooie are (or have been) basically Nintendo second party.

It's just a bit of fun, and I would wager the next two fighters will come from large-ish franchises.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I always thought Reggie just meant we were getting newcomers, which seems like a "no duh" statement.

Also, by unexpected characters, it's now obvious that they are unexpected in a general variable sense, and not just towards a broad audience. Joker was unexpected to all but the most hardcore Joker supporters (who didn't put much stock in him showing up even then). Hero was unexpected to everyone, even DQ fans in Japan. Banjo & Kazooie were unexpected to the casual audience and fans of other characters, but not their big fanbase who were anticipating them this whole time. It's a case-by-case basis. Although Reggie himself wouldn't necessarily have been aware of forum talk anyways.

Finally, I'm not sure about taking what anyone else says for granted anymore, after Kirkhope denied the bear and bird being in for a while.

I don't think Sakurai ever claimed he dislikes a game franchise. Metroid and DKC fans used to accuse him of hating their series and we all know how that turned out.

I still think we might get Sylux at some point in this cycle, and then some detractors would go "this game has too many Metroid characters".

Honestly wouldn't be shocked if that reaction happens, as fickle as this scene gets.

 

[random rendum]

So what's the reasoning behind believing the Japanese Female fighter guy?

Hero totally looks like he takes moves directly from Link and FE character...

And he has an interesting gimmick, the magic system.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

If we do get a female fighter next regardless I wonder if people will take it as a coincidence or believe in the leaker.

 

[Ultomato]

If we do get a female fighter next regardless I wonder if people will take it as a coincidence or believe in the leaker.

50/50 I predict

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If we do get a female fighter next regardless I wonder if people will take it as a coincidence or believe in the leaker.

Not sure, but it'll be entertaining no matter which way you slice it.

 

[Ridrool64]

Personally, I think the aftermath of Frisk/Papyrus being confirmed would be much more entertaining to watch, as Waluigi suddenly becomes a big name in the speculation scene.

With a female fighter, even if we're extremely strict on who it could be, there's still way too many options for it not to be a coincidence, while a name or a series would probably be much more indicative of somebody being onto something.

 

[RileyXY1]

Personally, I think the aftermath of Frisk/Papyrus being confirmed would be much more entertaining to watch, as Waluigi suddenly becomes a big name in the speculation scene.

With a female fighter, even if we're extremely strict on who it could be, there's still way too many options for it not to be a coincidence, while a name or a series would probably be much more indicative of somebody being onto something.

He does also claim that this female character is from a company that currently is not represented in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

He does also claim that this female character is from a company that currently is not represented in Smash.

Is it or is he just speculating? Last sentence just seemed him pondering about it and the way he made his theory is wrong anyways as he considered Atlus as new company when it has been part of Sega for a few years now.

 

[Robdelia]

One point in favor of Undertale is that I'm sure negotiations for its rights would be a lot easier than negotiating with Square Enix and all the parties involved with DQ with Hero. They just have to talk with Toby Fox, Temmie, and potentially 8-4.

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

Honestly, that leak does actually make sense to me (UT Rep + Waluigi), and while I'm going to say I'm neutral until we get solid evidence that this leak is fabricated, the reveal of somebody other than those two, the reveal of Sans, or the reveal of Waluigi after Frisk/Papyrus (the leak said it won't be Sans more than likely), I can see where Waluigi and the Undertale character come from.

Waluigi is, believe it or not, massively popular among casuals by mere virtue of being a Mario character; I really think people in the Smash speculation scene don't understand just how well-known Mario spin offs are, and how beloved they are by casuals worldwide: Waluigi is in one of the best selling Mario games ever, Mario Kart Wii. And, to be honest, when it comes to something as legendary and popular as Mario, I'm not quite sure Sakurai would have the same apprehension as with Corrin. Plus, while it would be a waste to scrap Waluigi's Assist Trophy, there's plenty of ways around it (disable the AT when Waluigi is played as, put AT Waluigi in a new outfit, replace it with a character who can do what he did, and there might be some solutions I didn't think up).

Personally, I think that even if you don't like, or even outright hate Waluigi (unless he is your least wanted by a country mile and a half), you have to admit the prospect of a character who effectively disconfirms DISCONFIRMATION AS A WHOLE (killing AT, Mii Costume, and Spirit disconfirmations in one fell swoop) would be very enticing to the Smash Bros. fandom, who would probably buy him en masse to prove to Nintendo they want more Assist promotions and Spirit promotions, while Waluigi practically sells himself to casuals.

Meanwhile, we have Undertale. I've previously discussed this at-length for the RTC thread, so I'll keep it short. I think I might have new information to go off of.

• Undertale is extremely popular and iconic for an indie game, being one that will shape the lives of the next generation.
• All of the DLC characters so far cater to old-school gamers (Three out of the four variants of Hero, Banjo & Kazooie) and adults (Luminary, Joker): there are no characters who are popular among children. Undertale would easily remedy this.
  • This may not be true in regards to Japan, but at least seems to be accurate for the United States. Anybody who wants to contend this point can.
• The relationship between Nintendo and indie developers has become one of the things Nintendo wants to push the most, making it likely that Undertale made the list.
• Toby Fox is a known fan of Smash Bros., as he was more preoccupied with the Ultimate teaser than the teaser for his own game, and Deltarune includes a reference to Smash Bros.
  • As an anecdote, another series that would get a fighter in Smash, Persona (specifically Persona 5 sub-series), includes a reference to Smash Bros. as well (unless this is fabricated). However, that doesn't mean it's an intentional hint.
• Sakurai is familiar with Undertale and has played it.
• As for why it wouldn't be Sans... (limiting myself to just Frisk and Papyrus).
  • Frisk is the primary hero, villain, and protagonist of the game. Sakurai may have been enticed by a moveset that could represent all of Undertale as opposed to only one third.
  • The Human has a back-up name to go by if Toby Fox does not want spoilers, though given Groove Coaster I won't hold it against Sans too much. Sans' primary combat abilities are spoilers.
  • Papyrus can do everything Sans can, sans Gaster Blasters, while these traits are not spoilery.
  • The most likely Undertale stage, the Last Corridor (official name of Judgement Hall), could feature Sans in the background, or even as the main element of the stage.
    • Other Undertale stages could feature Sans as an NPC.
  • It's possible Sans is among the DLC Spirits and Mii Costumes.
  • While Sans is more popular than Frisk and Papyrus, the gap is not that big, and all of them are very iconic and memorable characters to many people (Frisk is contentious about this, but Papyrus certainly is not that far away from Sans). Sans is simply the most memetic.

Even if the leak itself is fake, then I still believe at least Undertale is not off the table, and it would be very, very easy for Toby to just say "no lol i'm not involved with smash. just a fan" or something to that effect. I don't recall this ever happening, though. Waluigi is more contentious, but hey, everything's a rule until it's broken.

I'm very not certain in the idea that the Fighter's Pass, barring leaks, is a "one per company" deal, mostly because it feels like something that'd only be done to complete a quota and it doesn't sound like Sakurai cares about quotas. It's not a rule, but more likely than not it could come to pass that it's one character per company. One per series, on the other hand, is even more likely to be true because then you're not forging new ground, and as far as we've seen, second uniques are very unlikely as there seems to be a preference for new series, though not impossible until somebody says something.

I don't have anything to say on the "female with a projectile" other than if it were... you know who... I'd be a happy camper. But given the guy seems to be Japanese, he (and his source?) would know who Arle is. (Also, in the next game/pass I would say Arle's easily the likeliest puzzle game rep hands down, but right now I think Layton has a better argument. If Jibanyan gets in, though, Arle will be the likeliest again.) Spreading my wings so far that I can't talk about the current point.

When Waluogi joins the battle. Alfonzo becomes the assist trophy. Leave the racket beating to me!

 

[Evil Trapezium]

What would everyone's most disappointing likely characters be for the last two characters?

Not a character who would be disappointing to everyone like if we got Pepsiman or something stupid. But someone like Doomslayer or Leon that you know is big but not your cup of tea.

Steve
Frisk
Waluigi
This KOS-MOS character everyone is talking about
Any Xenoblade character that isn't from the first game
Any indie character
Any anime or manga looking chick like this Reimu girl or whatever you call those things
Any character that has a name that sounds like karate words

Apologies if I have offended anyone who likes the characters I mentioned.

While I'm completely satisfied with Banjo Kazooie's inclusion, Joker being okay and Hero starting to look kind of fresh (Thank goodness "Guv" is playable), Smash is all about big name companies coming together with some of the most iconic characters fighting with or against each other. Having some casually dressed kid with Simpsons jaundice that does nothing but attack with a butter knife or a bunch of rectangles that make up a humanoid character sounds like an incredibly Sakurai way to kill all hype like with Corrin and Bayonetta in Smash 4 or Ken, Incineroar and Piranha Plant for Smash Ultimate.

As for who I think will take the last two spots, if Capcom gets another character, Resident Evil will definitely be a lock and with Bethesda's Pete Hines saying that Nintendo fans will have things to look forward to whether it might be a Doom re-release bonanza for the Switch or they somehow got Doom guy into Smash Ultimate, I don't know.

 

[Untouch]

This twitter guy is obviously suggesting Nakoruru.
A female fighting game character with a flying weapon and a game launching soon.
I don't trust this guy but it makes sense and actually fits with all the other stupid theories people have.

 

[andree123]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I translated it and it is something about Neptune?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I translated it and it is something about Neptune?

That was in December 2018 and he was saying he’d like to see Neptune from the Hyperdimension Neptunia series, but not that the next character IS Neptune.

 

[TheCJBrine]

While I'm completely satisfied with Banjo Kazooie's inclusion, Joker being okay and Hero starting to look kind of fresh (Thank goodness "Guv" is playable), Smash is all about big name companies coming together with some of the most iconic characters fighting with or against each other. Having some casually dressed kid with Simpsons jaundice that does nothing but attack with a butter knife or a bunch of rectangles that make up a humanoid character sounds like an incredibly Sakurai way to kill all hype like with Corrin and Bayonetta in Smash 4 or Ken, Incineroar and Piranha Plant for Smash Ultimate.

That rectangular humanoid is also iconic and owned by a big name company.

 

[ProfPeanut]

...a bunch of rectangles that make up a humanoid character sounds like an incredibly Sakurai way to kill all hype.

how dare you slander the possibility of tetronimos in Smash

Honestly, after Banjo, it's simply safer to assume that it'll be downhill from here on out. Ultimate's base roster didn't exactly follow up the precedent set by K. Rool, so expecting a third megaton announcement in either #4 or #5 might just be setting oneself up for disappointment.

But really, after Banjo, what more could Smash actually need that one of the Fighters Pass slots should be reserved for it? (From third-parties only, of course)

 

[RileyXY1]

how dare you slander the possibility of tetronimos in Smash

Honestly, after Banjo, it's simply safer to assume that it'll be downhill from here on out. Ultimate's base roster didn't exactly follow up the precedent set by K. Rool, so expecting a third megaton announcement in either #4 or #5 might just be setting oneself up for disappointment.

But really, after Banjo, what more could Smash actually need that one of the Fighters Pass slots should be reserved for it? (From third-parties only, of course)

According to some people here, a character from Resident Evil.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The first tweet says, "It's from the person who predicted Isabella so I think he is legit. He said, it's the protagonist(?) of Dragon Quest series. There is also "brave" leak going around so I think it's pretty likely. He said the character has Toriyama art style, so I'm not sure who the actual character is. I'm sorry."

The second tweet says, "The leading candidate is Sora from KH? But Hasshi said it's the protagonist of DQ. Then I think both male and female will come."

So Mr.H is Hasshi.
And Hasshi's actual Hero leak was "The DQ protagonist(s) with no female alts, and has Toriyama art style".
But this guy wasn't fully trusting Hasshi and had his own speculations.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

That rectangular humanoid is also iconic and owned by a big name company.

Fair enough. I'm not going to get into an argument about Steve because I have a lot of negative things to say about him.

Honestly, after Banjo, it's simply safer to assume that it'll be downhill from here on out. Ultimate's base roster didn't exactly follow up the precedent set by K. Rool, so expecting a third megaton announcement in either #4 or #5 might just be setting oneself up for disappointment.

But really, after Banjo, what more could Smash actually need that one of the Fighters Pass slots should be reserved for it? (From third-parties only, of course)

Yeah. I did say that Smash 4 DLC and Smash Ultimate did go downhill near the end so I gotta agree with you on expecting the last DLC fighters being disappointing. It's just even with Banjo Kazooie fully satisfying me with the game, the idea of ending the fighters pass with Frisk and Waluigi still feels off putting

 

[N3ON]

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The first tweet says, "It's from the person who predicted Isabella so I think he is legit. He said, it's the protagonist(?) of Dragon Quest series. There is also "brave" leak going around so I think it's pretty likely. He said the character has Toriyama art style, so I'm not sure who the actual character is. I'm sorry."

The second tweet says, "The leading candidate is Sora from KH? But Hasshi said it's the protagonist of DQ. Then I think both male and female will come."

So Mr.H is Hasshi.
And Hasshi's actual Hero leak was "The DQ protagonist(s) with no female alts, and has Toriyama art style".
But this guy wasn't fully trusting Hasshi and had his own speculations.

Gotta be real, none of that stuff is super remarkable to predict. Isabelle? A DQ protagonist (unspecified) with no female alts after "Brave" was already known?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The only real thing that gets in Waluigi's way in regards to his alleged leak is that he needs to come with a new stage, and I can't think of any particular location people associate him with besides, what, a tennis court?

One point in favor of Undertale is that I'm sure negotiations for its rights would be a lot easier than negotiating with Square Enix and all the parties involved with DQ with Hero. They just have to talk with Toby Fox, Temmie, and potentially 8-4.

Compared to the already easy Microsoft/Rare negotiations, negotiating for Undertale content would be even more so to the point that it'd barely last 5 minutes. And that's if Toby doesn't say "YES!!!" before the Ninty execs even have time to ask him anything.

Gotta be real, none of that stuff is super remarkable to predict. Isabelle? A DQ protagonist (unspecified) with no female alts after "Brave" was already known?

When you fire at all cylinders everywhere, eventually you're going to hit something.