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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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YsDisciple

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I know my theory's kinda crazy (maybe:grin:), but throughout the Smash directs, reveals and such, I've always kept in mind those curious details that kept me thinking "could that have meant/hinted at something?" :surprised: For now, all we can do is wait. Although, out of those two, I do think Crash is very likely. Again, there's no way they could miss this opportunity of materializing the 90s rivalry between the console mascots.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I’m still convinced the final two picks for DLC will be from Namco and Capcom.

Specifically, I think Resident Evil will get tapped with either Jill or Leon. Maybe Chris.

Really not sure what to pick for Namco.
 

Flyboy

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I'm in a weird position where as much as I love Soulcalibur as a series, it just doesn't really need to be in Smash. I don't know why I feel that way. I wouldn't dislike Nightmare or anything - again, I love the series and think it's dope - but...eh.

Crash is a big prediction of my friend's and he'd love it, so no complaints there.

It's an interesting theory and fun to stretch things, but I don't think it's quite so deep.
 
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perfectchaos83

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I think we're getting a Namco rep and a Wildcard 3rd party in the rest of the DLC.

I don't see an outcome that gives another Capcom character.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I think we're getting a Namco rep and a Wildcard 3rd party in the rest of the DLC.

I don't see an outcome that gives another Capcom character.
in my case I'd replace "wildcard 3rd party" with "surprising Nintendo pick". If a Season 2 were to happen, I'd consider another Capcom character, but not now.
 

StrawHatX

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I’ve never played a Crash game and I really want to see him in Smash. He just seems like a perfect fit.

Also I’m thinking of picking up Crash Team Racing this weekend. How does it compare to Mario Kart? It looks really fun.
 

StormC

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I’ve never played a Crash game and I really want to see him in Smash. He just seems like a perfect fit.

Also I’m thinking of picking up Crash Team Racing this weekend. How does it compare to Mario Kart? It looks really fun.
It's better than Mario Kart.
 

Wyoming

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Not sure which two will be picked, but I think it will be a combination of Capcom, Namco, Koei Tecmo, Bethesda, SNK, Level-5, and Activision. All have their own merits for this pass. Just depends what Nintendo wanted and what Sakurai wants to work with.

I can see Ryu Hayabusa, Doomslayer, Leon/Jill, Professor Layton, Phoenix Wright, Crash Bandicoot, Yuri/Lloyd, Samurai Shodown, Heihachi, Solaire all happening.
 
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StormC

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I've seen this talked about in a few places. Probably another fake but it did get some stuff right and it's an alternative to droning on and on about Mr. H.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77349973
There's really nothing impressive about guessing Banjo. He was a highly speculated character, especially for an E3 reveal. I'm not a leaker for guessing for months they would show Dragon Quest and Banjo at E3.

Home-Run Contest was datamined forever ago as well.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Honestly the one thing I consistently see from folks is that “Capcom already has three characters, and that’s not fair.” To that I say, “So what?”

Capcom, as a company, has been instrumental to a handful of genres in gaming. Mega Man and Street Fighter are among the most iconic, sure.

However, series like Devil May Cry and Resident Evil especially are not only groundbreaking, but trendsetters for their respective genres. Resident Evil is the most highly profitable Japanese gaming series not yet in Smash, and provides characters, settings, and music unlike anything added to Smash yet.

Then you’ve got smaller series, such as Ace Attorney which is nothing to sneeze at. I’m not sure in terms of moveset potential, but the series has fans, undoubtedly.

I’ve also not been one to look at company, but by series. If the series has played a huge role in the industry, provides iconic characters, provides unique gameplay, unique settings/hazards, and brings in an entirely new fanbase? Do it bruh.

If you prefer one company that’s one thing. But preference has nothing on the actual possibilities.
 

Dragoncharystary

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There's really nothing impressive about guessing Banjo. He was a highly speculated character, especially for an E3 reveal. I'm not a leaker for guessing for months they would show Dragon Quest and Banjo at E3.

Home-Run Contest was datamined forever ago as well.
Actually this does pre date the home-run contest datamine by two months. That said home-run contest still wasn't a difficult thing to guess at. I only thought it was worth bringing up because it techinally got two things right if the home-run contest datamine is to be believed.

Honestly though I'm 95% sure it's fake. I just wanted to move on from Mr. H.
 
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StormC

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Actually this does pre date the home-run contest datamine by two months. That said home-run contest still wasn't a difficult thing to guess at. I only thought it was worth bringing up because it techinally got two things right if the home-run contest datamine is to be believed.

Honestly though I'm 95% sure it's fake. I just wanted to move on from Mr. H.
This says 5 months ago, but people datamined music for Home Run Contest as early as December.

Honestly the one thing I consistently see from folks is that “Capcom already has three characters, and that’s not fair.” To that I say, “So what?”

Capcom, as a company, has been instrumental to a handful of genres in gaming. Mega Man and Street Fighter are among the most iconic, sure.

However, series like Devil May Cry and Resident Evil especially are not only groundbreaking, but trendsetters for their respective genres. Resident Evil is the most highly profitable Japanese gaming series not yet in Smash, and provides characters, settings, and music unlike anything added to Smash yet.

Then you’ve got smaller series, such as Ace Attorney which is nothing to sneeze at. I’m not sure in terms of moveset potential, but the series has fans, undoubtedly.

I’ve also not been one to look at company, but by series. If the series has played a huge role in the industry, provides iconic characters, provides unique gameplay, unique settings/hazards, and brings in an entirely new fanbase? Do it bruh.

If you prefer one company that’s one thing. But preference has nothing on the actual possibilities.
I 100% agree. There is no rule on how many characters a company can have and they haven't added any new franchises from Capcom since Smash 4. Capcom has arguably the biggest warchest of iconic franchises of any Japanese third party and I really cannot imagine they wouldn't at least consider a Capcom character.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Given Capcom's status having as many franchises as Nintendo kinda surprised Nintendo vs. Capcom has yet to have happened given its history of crossovers like with Marvel and SNK.
 
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perfectchaos83

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Care to expand on why you don’t think a Capcom character will happen?

I’m curious, is all.
Because everyone's speculating it. To me, it's too obvious, just like the people who think Monster Hunter is likely. Perhaps it's a bit hypocritical of me because I'm also speculating a Namco Character, but I feel there's more room for growth with them, especially since they are developing the game. With just two slots left, It feels far too obvious both Capcom and Namco will get reps, and I give that edge to Namco.
 

KingBroly

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Given Capcom's status having as many franchises as Nintendo kinda surprised Nintendo vs. Capcom has yet to have happened given its history of crossovers like with Marvel and SNK.
Why would Nintendo want a collaboration with Capcom when Capcom keeps giving them the short end of the stick?
 

SilentSentinel

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Why would Nintendo want a collaboration with Capcom when Capcom keeps giving them the short end of the stick?
Define short end of the stick? There's around 2 dozen Capcom published titles on the Switch. If it's about the small cartridge sizes for RE, plenty of other companies have done that. Nintendo and Capcom's relationship is as strong as ever to the point of Nintendo spending 2 full minutes during their E3 presentation to advertise two ports of lesser RE games.
 

StormC

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I don't actually think Monster Hunter is likely. Licensing Monster Hunter only to put Rathalos in it tells me that's all they think is worth putting in for Smash.

I'm reminded of this quote...

Sakurai: Final Fantasy (FF below) is one of the few uniquely Japanese game series revered by players around the world. I think fans across the globe have hoped a character from one of those series would appear in Smash, so it was only a matter of time. At the same time, there are only so many big-name titles we can work with at this point—mainly because we’ve covered most of those bases. Aside from the major globally-recognized franchises already featured in Smash, there really aren’t that many left.

So far none of the DLC has really fit this bill. Banjo was popular in the 90s, Persona 5 is the only Atlus game to be borderline mainstream, and Dragon Quest's following in the west is a cult thing. I feel like we're going to get at least one of these globally popular Japanese series in the Fighters Pass.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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Because everyone's speculating it. To me, it's too obvious, just like the people who think Monster Hunter is likely. Perhaps it's a bit hypocritical of me because I'm also speculating a Namco Character, but I feel there's more room for growth with them, especially since they are developing the game. With just two slots left, It feels far too obvious both Capcom and Namco will get reps, and I give that edge to Namco.
Eh, I personally think the Monster Hunter ship has sailed. Considering the most iconic part of the series is in already, adding a Hunter as playable doesn’t actually expand the crossover.

I think there’s plenty good reason to expect both Capcom and Namco to be expanded upon, and I don’t see that as a problem either. Both companies have excellent rosters to choose from for the final two spots, with names like Heihachi, Lloyd Irving, Leon Kennedy, Jill Valentine, Dante, Phoenix Wright, alongside others.

StormC StormC Now that you bring up that quote, that frankly applies to quite a few series from Capcom and Namco.

Resident Evil and Tekken seem like titles fitting that, in my humble opinion. Devil May Cry and Tales as close seconds.
 
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StormC

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Imagine: Banjo could be getting lit the **** up by Leon Kennedy or Jill Valentine in six months. Smash is a beautiful thing.
 

bentendo222

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I don't think anyone has brought this up. But another reason the remaining characters could be from Namco and Capcom is because of the Namco and Capcom Mii Costumes from Smash 4. As of now, they aren't in Ultimate. The Tails and Knuckles costumes, who are owned by Sega, didn't return until the release of Joker, who is also owned by Sega. And we most likely will see the Chocobo hat and Geno costume return alongside the Hero's release. So for 3rd party costumes, that would leave us with the Megaman and Monster Hunter costumes (Capcom) and then the Heihachi, Gil, and Lloyd Irving costumes (Namco). Now they could always release them alongside Banjo & Kazooie, but that wouldn't make sense now would it?
 

AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea

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Honestly the one thing I consistently see from folks is that “Capcom already has three characters, and that’s not fair.” To that I say, “So what?”

Capcom, as a company, has been instrumental to a handful of genres in gaming. Mega Man and Street Fighter are among the most iconic, sure.
I'm a huge Capcom fan and even I don't want another Capcom rep. Capcom's one of those companies where they cross over with literally everything, i'd rather they just make a Nintendo vs Capcom game instead of clogging the roster of Smash Bros. I wanted Proto Man back then also, but having both Proto Man and Ken feels weird. Just in general I feel like some other companies like Sega or Namco should deserve the extra foot in the door rather than Capcom just because their invitation is always open.

Another issue I have with this theory is that it makes the rest of the pass too predictable and boring. When it boils down to Capcom, the easy ones come up. A Resident Evil rep, Monster Hunter, even Dante, that's not fun in my opinion. It would be cool to see them in Smash, but it doesn't give off such an impact as someone like Joker or even Banjo. But that's of course my own opinion. Some people absolutely love those franchises and would go crazy to see them in Smash. And that's always great.
 

KingBroly

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Define short end of the stick? There's around 2 dozen Capcom published titles on the Switch. If it's about the small cartridge sizes for RE, plenty of other companies have done that. Nintendo and Capcom's relationship is as strong as ever to the point of Nintendo spending 2 full minutes during their E3 presentation to advertise two ports of lesser RE games.
How many are new though? Mega Man 11, the SF Collection, Mega Man X Collections 1 & 2 (which should've been on 1 cart but they were cheap with it) and a port of Ace Attorney Trilogy? Most of Capcom's offerings on Switch are ports, after Nintendo upped the amount of ram on the system because Capcom said they needed it for the RE Engine. Then they put out RE7 Cloud Edition in Japan only. Whoop de bloody doo.

Capcom has enough reps as is.
 
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King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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I think there’s plenty good reason to expect both Capcom and Namco to be expanded upon, and I don’t see that as a problem either. Both companies have excellent rosters to choose from for the final two spots, with names like Heihachi, Lloyd Irving, Leon Kennedy, Jill Valentine, Dante, Phoenix Wright, alongside others.

Resident Evil and Tekken seem like titles fitting that, in my humble opinion. Devil May Cry and Tales as close seconds.
I agree with you for the most part, but personally I feel like Heihachi is unlikely for a couple of reasons and I've been meaning to write this out for a long time.

The first reason I find his inclusion unlikely is because his long time voice actor died just last year in August, which means depicting the character's personality faithfully would be difficult. It's possible that they could just reuse voice clips, but Tekken 7's story seemed to be a final send-off for his character, it goes into his backstory and it finally kills him, leaving his sons Kazuya and Jin as the leads now. Perhaps it could be argued that including him in Smash would be a good send-off to immortalize this iconic character, but that moves on to my next point.

Heihachi is already in Smash Ultimate as apart of PAC-MAN'S Namco Roulette. If Sakurai considered an actual candidate for potential DLC, I doubt he would have put him here, especially since he wasn't part of the Roulette in Smash 4.


The counter-point to this might be something like Chrom appearing in Robin's Final Smash or that this is just a cute little reference that doesn't have any effect on his chances, but it seems odd that Sakurai would go out of his way to include a famous 3rd party character like Heihachi in this regard, especially since he has already been considered for Smash bros. before.
Sakurai Interview said:
Interviewer: Between Bandai and Namco, were there any other strong candidates for inclusion as a fighter?
Sakurai: There were none. We basically thought of all the characters at the start of development. We decided on characters we knew we could make. However, there were a few in consideration, such as Heihachi from “Tekken.”
Interviewer: Heihachi!
Sakurai: That’s right. However, implementing Heihachi’s movement in Smash would be difficult…
Heihachi was shortly considered for smash 4, but quickly was dismissed mainly because his "movement" would be difficult to implement. That's basically Sakurai saying Heihachi can't "dance", which brings me to another Sakurai interview.
Sakurai said:
Of course getting permission and understanding from the original creators is necessary, but whether the image of the character in my head is dancing powerfully, or not. This is of the utmost importance. On the contrary, no matter how suited a character may be to fighting, if I cannot meaningfully distinguish them from other characters, or create fun unique characteristics of the characters, then that’s the end for them.
Combined with the fact that Sakurai casually name drops Heihachi, I find it very telling that Sakurai included the "no matter how suited a character may be to fighting" into his statement as a thinly veiled explanation of why Heihachi is not in smash despite his iconic status. Heihachi does not bring something unique to Smash that will distinguish himself.

Sakurai has already dismissed Heihachi in the past, it's possible that he could have changed his mind like he did for Villager/PAC-MAN, but if he was on his radar as a potential DLC character I don't think he would already been in the game as a sprite if he did change his mind.
 

osby

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I'd rather have a cool, third unique Capcom character than a random character supported only for repping a new company.

I'm playing as characters, not company logos. Also I'm not fond of the idea of waiting for an imaginary crossover just to see RE characters fighting with Isabelle.
 

StormC

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I'd rather have a cool, third unique Capcom character than a random character supported only for repping a new company.

I'm playing as characters, not company logos. Also I'm not fond of the idea of waiting for an imaginary crossover just to see RE characters fighting with Isabelle.
Yeah, I'm a more casual fan of the series (only ones I've played are 2 and 4), but I absolutely love the idea of seeing Resident Evil in Smash. It's a genre completely unrepresented and it has some cool, iconic characters that could play really uniquely. I don't really care if other companies have to wait their turn or whatever, I'm not a shareholder. It's not Capcom's fault they have so many great series and characters, lol.
 
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D

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In all honesty, seeing how the pass is coming along I feel that is more interesting to speculate on the characters pair-wise rather than individually.

I myself, just like some people here, believe that the pass is going to focus on new audiences but I also believe that the audiences that its going to bring will be more focused on a global level. Just like simple logic, if the pass starts catering exclusively to a region, the other regions are going to have less incentive to buy it aside from 1-3 characters they like. That's why I'm on the fence of believing we're getting someone like Doomguy, who is pretty much a 99% western oriented pick, and I would believe that Dovahkin would make more sense as it is one of the most popular western games from Bethesda in Japan.

I also agree that genres or unique takes to genres not yet represented already in the game would take priority over genres already represented, but also both of the characters themselves are going to be focused to bring two different public from one another.

I can imagine a pairing like Yuri and Jill/Leon, Monster Hunter and Solaire/Chosen Undead, Phoenix Wright and Ryu Hayabusa, or whatever mismatched pair it can be thought as the remaining fighters. And while I can be wrong, at least it makes the speculation more interesting due to all the possible combinations that there could be for the remaining fighters..
 
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Ben Holt

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In all honesty, seeing how the pass is coming along I feel that is more interesting to speculate on the characters pair-wise rather than individually.

I myself, just like some people here, believe that the pass is going to focus on new audiences but I also believe that the audiences that its going to bring will be more focused on a global level. Just like simple logic, if the pass starts catering exclusively to a region, the other regions are going to have less incentive to buy it aside from 1-3 characters they like. That's why I'm on the fence of believing we're getting someone like Doomguy, who is pretty much a 99% western oriented pick, and I would believe that Dovahkin would make more sense as it is one of the most popular western games from Bethesda in Japan.

I also agree that genres or unique takes to genres not yet represented already in the game would take priority over genres already represented, but also both of the characters themselves are going to be focused to bring two different public from one another.

I can imagine a pairing like Yuri and Jill/Leon, Monster Hunter and Solaire/Chosen Undead, Phoenix Wright and Ryu Hayabusa, or whatever mismatched pair it can be thought as the remaining fighters. And while I can be wrong, at least it makes the speculation more interesting due to all the possible combinations that there could be for the remaining fighters..
If we're getting a pair of fighters, it better be Crash and Spyro.
But I personally think that the last two fighters in this pass (I think we're getting more Fighter's Passes) are Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa.
As I said in Doom Slayer's thread, I don't believe any one particular leak, but often if a rumor persists, there's truth to it. And Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa have had the most rumors.
 

perfectchaos83

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If we're getting a pair of fighters, it better be Crash and Spyro.
But I personally think that the last two fighters in this pass (I think we're getting more Fighter's Passes) are Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa.
As I said in Doom Slayer's thread, I don't believe any one particular leak, but often if a rumor persists, there's truth to it. And Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa have had the most rumors.
The same can be said for Chorus Kids and they never happened. Doom Slayer and Ryu have only had prominence on fake leaks.
 

StormC

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In all honesty, seeing how the pass is coming along I feel that is more interesting to speculate on the characters pair-wise rather than individually.

I myself, just like some people here, believe that the pass is going to focus on new audiences but I also believe that the audiences that its going to bring will be more focused on a global level. Just like simple logic, if the pass starts catering exclusively to a region, the other regions are going to have less incentive to buy it aside from 1-3 characters they like. That's why I'm on the fence of believing we're getting someone like Doomguy, who is pretty much a 99% western oriented pick, and I would believe that Dovahkin would make more sense as it is one of the most popular western games from Bethesda in Japan.

I also agree that genres or unique takes to genres not yet represented already in the game would take priority over genres already represented, but also both of the characters themselves are going to be focused to bring two different public from one another.

I can imagine a pairing like Yuri and Jill/Leon, Monster Hunter and Solaire/Chosen Undead, Phoenix Wright and Ryu Hayabusa, or whatever mismatched pair it can be thought as the remaining fighters. And while I can be wrong, at least it makes the speculation more interesting due to all the possible combinations that there could be for the remaining fighters..
This is my feeling as well. We can talk about Doom being the answer to Dragon Quest but at least DQ has had some million sellers in the west (and DQ11 was a big hit on PS4, and is sure to be a big hit on Switch as well). Doom is a complete nothingburger in Japan, I don't think a single release there has sold more than 20k and gory FPS PC games just aren't really... a thing in Japan. This is the benefit of Resident Evil, it scratches a similar itch but is also an iconic and recognizable brand to Japanese gamers (especially Resident Evil 2, which is the best selling RE in Japan to this day).

But you're right that this DLC is so fascinating because it's such a random grab bag of stuff. You would have a hard time picking two video games more different than Persona 5 and Banjo-Kazooie (and both are amazing games). That's where I feel Resident Evil fits into the picture, it offers something completely different and is a brand that is highly recognizable and popular around the world.

I'm skeptical they will load up three JRPG characters on the Pass, but that could be completely unfounded. I'm even skeptical they will double dip on two western platforming mascots with Banjo and Crash. I'm pretty much open to whatever at this point, so I wouldn't mind if they surprised us.
 
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osby

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If we're getting a pair of fighters, it better be Crash and Spyro.
Not sure if this is really serious, but revealing three 90s platforming mascots back to back is a bad way of catering to a wide audience no matter how you look at it.

It's not really a matter of genre, I can see us getting a third JRPG characters if it's from a time frame between DQIII-IV and P5/DQXI.
 
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Nquoid

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I'm intrigued how people talk about predictability and not wanting the obvious characters. But surely this community has talked about every single possible character for the game and as we get closer and closer to the date of reveal, it'll probably leak in some way. And then the discussion will make it feel like they've been inevitable. Like I'm sure Joker wasn't obvious, but I definitely didn't feel shocked at the game awards, just a sense of "this feels right"

Honestly, I still want this fighters pass to cater to Nintendo history. Joker is the semi outlier so far, but Shin Megami did start on the famicon, and Nintendo has their own Persona spin off with Q. That means Resident Evil, Phoenix Wright, Tales and Ninja Gaiden make the most sense to me. If that makes me a basic ***** then so be it
 
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StormC

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Setting aside everything, there is one thing that makes me doubt a Tales character: prestige.

Tales has been a decently successful series, but it never feels like the series has broken out critically. Games like Persona 5 and DQ11 were GOTY contenders and considered two of the best JRPGs ever (and the DQ franchise is obviously a cultural behemoth in Japan). Banjo-Kazooie was a highly anticipated game from Rareware at their peak and is seen as a cornerstone of the N64's library and 3D platforming genre in general. And games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy VII speak for themselves.

Has Tales ever had a game like that? A game where people in the industry chat it up and talk about it as one of the greatest games of all time? I think Vesperia comes closest to that, but the buzz isn't like Persona 5 or DQ11. I think the Tales games are generally considered solid, but nothing extraordinary; they haven't had their breakout title yet. It's kind of a B series for Namco.

Obviously Sakurai has never said "if a character doesn't have a 90 on metacritic they're deconfirmed" but it's something I've been thinking about.
 

Gran-Rojo

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I think a Namco character is extremely likely for the fighter pass, and it would definitely be between Tales or Tekken.

I'm heavily leaning towards a Tekken character simply due to sales data alone. Tekken 3 is the highest selling Namco game of all time with 8.5 million sales (the 3rd best selling fighting game of all time losing only to Smash Bros games), and their best selling franchise with 47 million sales total. Tales is successful as well, but only half as successful with 20 million total sales. I agree with the points against Heihachi's inclusion, but they can simply use another character, like the protagonist of the best selling game in the franchise, Jin.

There is no rule that says the highest selling 3rd party franchise guarantees inclusion, but based on previous patterns I believe that it is an important determining factor of who gets in smash. Both Square and Konami chose their two best selling franchises to be in smash over their other properties for example. The biggest strike against the sales argument would be Resident Evil, since it is Capcom's best selling franchise yet it does not have a character in smash.

Tekken seems to have too many things going for it at this point to not be included in smash, and that's not even mentioning how Tekken 7 and Ultimate will most likely be next to each other on the EVO championship Sunday schedule when reveals happen, which would make for the most mind blowing character reveal (I don't think this would happen though, it's more of a hope than a legit prediction).




Sales data sources for those who care:

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Tekken

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dualshockers.com/tales-of-franchise-20-million-sales/amp/
 

Dragoncharystary

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I'd rather have a cool, third unique Capcom character than a random character supported only for repping a new company.

I'm playing as characters, not company logos. Also I'm not fond of the idea of waiting for an imaginary crossover just to see RE characters fighting with Isabelle.
Agreed. This is also why I'm not ready yet to rule out another Microsoft character. If they're a cool character that brings a massive franchise and a new unique style of gameplay to smash like Steve or Master Chief potentially would, I say let them come.
 
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