Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Guynamednelson]

So, I just rewatched the 3.0 update trailer and I realized that one of the stages previewed in the stage builder segment was a witch with a cauldron. This could just be a small and insignificant thing that I’m overthinking, but it could also be a reference to Gruntilda, pointing towards Banjo being DLC!

Something something Rathalos.

 

[Flyboy]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

BIG. THINKING. EMOJI.

 

[Megadoomer]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

BIG. THINKING. EMOJI.

I'm a little confused as to why they didn't put the Devil May Cry HD collection on the Switch instead. (though if it means that Switch owners aren't subjected to Devil May Cry 2, I suppose that's a plus) Still, if it makes it possible for Dante to be in Smash, I have no complaints.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hadn't the series producer said they'd never been approached by Nintendo anyways?

Just saying, getting a port after being disconfirmed twice doesn't make his chances any greater.

 

[Deleted member]

Hadn't the series producer said they'd never been approached by Nintendo anyways?

Just saying, getting a port after being disconfirmed twice doesn't make his chances any greater.

Still, gives hopes for the future.

 

[Robdelia]

In regards to what Erdrick's moveset would be, considering Pokemon Trainer only uses their starters, Robin only uses the weapons in his base class in Awakening, and Joker only uses Arsene, I think it's safe to say Erdrick would be a sword-wielder (because that's what all his art depicts him using) who can use thunder and fire magic and probably enchant his sword with thunder.
Robin, basically, which is why I'm not really expecting him to be DLC.

 

[osby]

In regards to what Erdrick's moveset would be, considering Pokemon Trainer only uses their starters, Robin only uses the weapons in his base class in Awakening, and Joker only uses Arsene, I think it's safe to say Erdrick would be a sword-wielder (because that's what all his art depicts him using) who can use thunder and fire magic and probably enchant his sword with thunder.
Robin, basically, which is why I'm not really expecting him to be DLC.

Like how Ryu couldn't get into Smash because all he did was punches and kicks? Or like how Cloud was ignored because he'd just be another sword fighter?

 

[Captain Fun]

In regards to what Erdrick's moveset would be, considering Pokemon Trainer only uses their starters, Robin only uses the weapons in his base class in Awakening, and Joker only uses Arsene, I think it's safe to say Erdrick would be a sword-wielder (because that's what all his art depicts him using) who can use thunder and fire magic and probably enchant his sword with thunder.
Robin, basically, which is why I'm not really expecting him to be DLC.

Robin cant use Dark tomes in his base class. There's no such thing as a Rebellion Gauge in Persona, and Arsene doesn't power up normal attacks either. There's no such thing as Jump Monado arts in Xenoblade, there's no Pac-Man game where he conjures a fire hydrant, etc.

Characters have liberties taken with them all the time to make them more interesting. Erdrick obviously would be a sword wielder, but it's premature to assume they wouldn't work with anything beyond that.

 

[Robdelia]

That is a true point but I think there's a difference between those characters and Erdrick. Like Ryu has his whole Street Fighter inputs and Cloud has the Limit System. Meanwhile I'm struggling to think of a unique gimmick for Erdrick to have from Dragon Quest because DQ is literally "Comfort Food: the RPG". It's simple by design. Hell, Robin would have more uniqueness than him because of the durability system, meaning they'd be charging $6 for a simplified Robin with a shield that you know is going to be a counter.
Overall I think there's much better reps for DQ as a whole (Slime has more going for him and does a better job repping the series overall. Luminary would also be cool) because Erdrick just isn't that interesting. He just looks like a dumbed-down Robin that would be charged for $6 when better options for DQ exist.
But if Sakurai picks him and somehow finds a way to make him unique, then sure why not.

 

[osby]

That is a true point but I think there's a difference between those characters and Erdrick. Like Ryu has his whole Street Fighter inputs and Cloud has the Limit System. Meanwhile I'm struggling to think of a unique gimmick for Erdrick to have from Dragon Quest because DQ is literally "Comfort Food: the RPG". It's simple by design. Hell, Robin would have more uniqueness than him because of the durability system, meaning they'd be charging $6 for a simplified Robin with a shield that you know is going to be a counter.
Overall I think there's much better reps for DQ as a whole (Slime has more going for him and does a better job repping the series overall. Luminary would also be cool) because Erdrick just isn't that interesting. He just looks like a dumbed-down Robin that would be charged for $6 when better options for DQ exist.
But if Sakurai picks him and somehow finds a way to make him unique, then sure why not.

You keep acting like Robin and Erdrick are identical clones of each other.

You know who else is a swordsman with an access to elemental magic? Cloud. Yet he and Robin don't play alike at all in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

That is a true point but I think there's a difference between those characters and Erdrick. Like Ryu has his whole Street Fighter inputs and Cloud has the Limit System. Meanwhile I'm struggling to think of a unique gimmick for Erdrick to have from Dragon Quest because DQ is literally "Comfort Food: the RPG". It's simple by design. Hell, Robin would have more uniqueness than him because of the durability system, meaning they'd be charging $6 for a simplified Robin with a shield that you know is going to be a counter.
Overall I think there's much better reps for DQ as a whole (Slime has more going for him and does a better job repping the series overall. Luminary would also be cool) because Erdrick just isn't that interesting. He just looks like a dumbed-down Robin that would be charged for $6 when better options for DQ exist.
But if Sakurai picks him and somehow finds a way to make him unique, then sure why not.

You know that Luminary, Erdrick and a lot of DQ heroes share a lot of moves due to sharing the same class right? Doubt how in that regard Erdrick is less interesting.

Plus your description of him being like Robin is kinda faulty, given that Robin is more focused on magic and Erdrick is more focused on physical attacks. The hero class in DQ is as focused in magic as is focused on special techniques.

 

[Robdelia]

Ah well. I still don't think he'll be in but I see the error in my points.

 

[GoodGrief741]

That is a true point but I think there's a difference between those characters and Erdrick. Like Ryu has his whole Street Fighter inputs and Cloud has the Limit System. Meanwhile I'm struggling to think of a unique gimmick for Erdrick to have from Dragon Quest because DQ is literally "Comfort Food: the RPG". It's simple by design. Hell, Robin would have more uniqueness than him because of the durability system, meaning they'd be charging $6 for a simplified Robin with a shield that you know is going to be a counter.
Overall I think there's much better reps for DQ as a whole (Slime has more going for him and does a better job repping the series overall. Luminary would also be cool) because Erdrick just isn't that interesting. He just looks like a dumbed-down Robin that would be charged for $6 when better options for DQ exist.
But if Sakurai picks him and somehow finds a way to make him unique, then sure why not.

The Tension system? Monster catching? A class system? There's tons of ways you can make Erdrick use his own 'Limit Break' style gimmick, if that's what it takes to make a character 'original' these days.

Also, and this is personal, but Robin without the durability would be better than what we got.

 

[Deleted member]

Hadn't the series producer said they'd never been approached by Nintendo anyways?

Just saying, getting a port after being disconfirmed twice doesn't make his chances any greater.

He was specifically disconfirmed for the main roster by Matt Walker back in August (as in, the Fighter's Pass wasn't a thing). Just a simple "No, he's not in Smash".

The second time was a non-answer by Hideaki Itsuno in February saying "shouldn't Devil May Cry be on Switch first, lol?"
....which we know now it is going to be.

This actually changes things as it was only ASSUMED Dante was disconfirmed solely because there was no Devil May Cry on Switch. But for all we know Itsuno could have easily been well aware of Nintendo's and Capcom's negotiations for the port.

EDIT: Not saying Dante is a guarantee or anything of the sort. Just that he's far from out of the running based on what we know and what was actually said.

 

[Ornl]

official deconfirmation or not,
- Bayonetta already is a DLC Fighter using guns and demonic attacks, evolving in a contemporary world against demons,
- Joker already is a DLC Fighter using gun and demonic attacks, evolving in a contemporary world against demons.
One of them is already from a Beat 'em up designed by Hideki Kamiya.

Hideki Kamiya also worked for Resident Evil, Viewtiful Joe, Phoenix Wright and Ōkami. Because PlatinumGames was created from Clover Studio that belonged to Capcom. With this point of view, Bayonetta has the soul of a 3rd Capcom Fighter appeared in Sm4sh. Capcom & Co. already has 3 rep, 4 including Ken.

 

[Idon]

soul of a 3rd Capcom Fighter

Are we going down this route of categorizing characters by their "soul" now?

I guess that means Bayonetta isn't a SEGA character anymore because it's a Platinum Games brainchild, or maybe Joker isn't a SEGA character anymore because Atlus was independent before being bought by SEGA, oh or maybe we're going to go as far as to say that Snake isn't even a Konami character because his primary creator has left the company taking the soul with him.

This line of logic is ridiculous, and it's not something anyone sane would even consider when deciding characters, much less Nintendo or Capcom.

He was specifically disconfirmed for the main roster by Matt Walker back in August (as in, the Fighter's Pass wasn't a thing). Just a simple "No, he's not in Smash".

The second time was a non-answer by Hideaki Itsuno in February saying "shouldn't Devil May Cry be on Switch first, lol?"
....which we know now it is going to be.

This actually changes things as it was only ASSUMED Dante was disconfirmed solely because there was no Devil May Cry on Switch. But for all we know Itsuno could have easily been well aware of Nintendo's and Capcom's negotiations for the port.

EDIT: Not saying Dante is a guarantee or anything of the sort. Just that he's far from out of the running based on what we know and what was actually said.

Matt Walker has also disconfirmed him for DLC on October saying that "we" being him and Capcom/Itsuno haven't been approached for Smash. That is one month after Sakurai had tweeted that all DLC characters had already been chosen by this point in time.

You already know I'm the biggest Dante supporter there is, but this is pretty damning to his chances.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Are we going down this route of categorizing characters by their "soul" now?

I guess that means Bayonetta isn't a SEGA character anymore because it's a Platinum Games brainchild, or maybe Joker isn't a SEGA character anymore because Atlus was independent before being bought by SEGA, oh or maybe we're going to go as far as to say that Snake isn't even a Konami character because his primary creator has left the company taking the soul with him.

This line of logic is ridiculous, and it's not something anyone sane would even consider when deciding characters, much less Nintendo or Capcom.

Matt Walker has also disconfirmed him for DLC on October saying that "we" being him and Capcom/Itsuno haven't been approached for Smash. That is one month after Sakurai had tweeted that all DLC characters had already been chosen by this point in time.

You already know I'm the biggest Dante supporter there is, but this is pretty damning to his chances.

From the looks of it, that OCTOBER tweet sounds like it was one month before.

 

[Deleted member]

Are we going down this route of categorizing characters by their "soul" now?

I guess that means Bayonetta isn't a SEGA character anymore because it's a Platinum Games brainchild, or maybe Joker isn't a SEGA character anymore because Atlus was independent before being bought by SEGA, oh or maybe we're going to go as far as to say that Snake isn't even a Konami character because his primary creator has left the company taking the soul with him.

This line of logic is ridiculous, and it's not something anyone sane would even consider when deciding characters, much less Nintendo or Capcom.

Matt Walker has also disconfirmed him for DLC on October saying that "we" being him and Capcom/Itsuno haven't been approached for Smash. That is one month after Sakurai had tweeted that all DLC characters had already been chosen by this point in time.

You already know I'm the biggest Dante supporter there is, but this is pretty damning to his chances.

DLC wasn't decided on until December.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

DLC wasn't decided on until December.

wait i'm getting conflicting reports of when DLC was decided. Was it ever clearly stated somewhere when it was decided upon?

 

[Deleted member]

official deconfirmation or not,
- Bayonetta already is a DLC Fighter using guns and demonic attacks, evolving in a contemporary world against demons,
- Joker already is a DLC Fighter using gun and demonic attacks, evolving in a contemporary world against demons.
One of them is already from a Beat 'em up designed by Hideki Kamiya.

Hideki Kamiya also worked for Resident Evil, Viewtiful Joe, Phoenix Wright and Ōkami. Because PlatinumGames was created from Clover Studio that belonged to Capcom. With this point of view, Bayonetta has the soul of a 3rd Capcom Fighter appeared in Sm4sh. Capcom & Co. already has 3 rep, 4 including Ken.

Going to be honest.
You do nothing but give statistical nonesense that holds no weight on the future whatsoever.
Stop.

 

[Ornl]

This line of logic is ridiculous, and it's not something anyone sane would even consider when deciding characters, much less Nintendo or Capcom.

Going to be honest.
You do nothing but give statistical nonesense that holds no weight on the future whatsoever.
Stop.

Rather, I think it's important to know that the creator of Devil May Cry is also the creator of another Beat 'em up evolving in a contemporary world with demons, whose main character, Bayonetta, has already a DLC Fighter with guns and demonic attacks. To judge ridiculous or nonsense this point is only a subjective stigmatization.

 

[Megadoomer]

Rather, I think it's important to know that the creator of Devil May Cry is also the creator of another Beat 'em up evolving in a contemporary world with demons, whose main character, Bayonetta, has already a DLC Fighter with guns and demonic attacks. To judge ridiculous or nonsense this point is only a subjective stigmatization.

https://twinfinite.net/2016/02/proj...onetta-which-kamiya-now-regrets-new-messages/

The creator of DMC and Bayonetta doesn't particularly seem to care for that line of logic. He outright said that he regrets turning down the opportunity for Bayonetta and Dante to cross over in Project X Zone 2, and if it's what the fans want, he'd have no problem with letting it happen.

Whether or not the characters have any similarities (especially vague ones) doesn't really seem to matter. Persona has much more in common with Pokemon or Inception than it does with Devil May Cry anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

Rather, I think it's important to know that the creator of Devil May Cry is also the creator of another Beat 'em up evolving in a contemporary world with demons, whose main character, Bayonetta, has already a DLC Fighter with guns and demonic attacks. To judge ridiculous or nonsense this point is only a subjective stigmatization.

Useless trivia.
Bayonetta being in the game isn't going to prevent Dante's appearance in any way shape or form.

You clearly have no idea how guests for Smash work.
They AREN'T picked to fit some arbitrary genre role.

 

[Ornl]

The creator of DMC and Bayonetta doesn't particularly seem to care for that line of logic. He outright said that he regrets turning down the opportunity for Bayonetta and Dante to cross over in Project X Zone 2, and if it's what the fans want, he'd have no problem with letting it happen.

In first in Smash rather than in a DMC/Bayonetta crossover ?

You clearly have no idea how guests for Smash work.

Variety, with "bringing just a whole different level of fun and enjoyment for the player" (Reggie's words).

 

[The Slayer]

Variety, with "bringing just a whole different level of fun and enjoyment for the player" (Reggie's words).

Well, I would love to see some variety in that Fire Emblem section because it's not giving me a whole different level of fun and enjoyment.

 

[Deleted member]

Variety doesn't mean "can't be from same genre".

As long as their fighting styles are different, that's variety.
The only thing similar in how Dante and Bayo fight are the fact they both use guns and come from combo-based games.

Saying there would be overlap in Smash is completely ignoring the huge claymore Dante carries around, the Devil Trigger, and pretty much everything else Dante would have access to that Bayo doesn't.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Variety, with "bringing just a whole different level of fun and enjoyment for the player" (Reggie's words).

If they have different movesets and some different stuff, seems these words would still match since they're not concrete and are just vague enough to fit what different people want.

I don't see any use in relying on statistics and arbitrary facts, anyway; Sakurai has never seemed to pay much attention to this stuff, just going for whoever fits his "vision" or few, main rules or whatever and whoever would make people happy. Besides, every time someone has relied on statistics and stuff like this to make predictions or whatever, they ended up failing.

It's alright to compare characters and whatnot for opinions and stuff, but trying to guess the DLC just won't happen. Plus if we're going to assume Reggie was very literal with his words as if he pays a huge load of attention to the Smash community's wants, and wants to crush their dreams by acting as if expectations = wants for whatever reason, then it's just as reasonable to assume he'll think we'll make predictions like this and so we'll never truly predict the DLC characters accurately because we're "expecting" them. It's not reasonable. I would rather look at Sakurai's likes and friendships, etc., or Nintendo's friendly partnerships with other companies.

 

[Robdelia]

The real question is which version of Dante would be the one they go with if he ever got in Smash.
Please be shirtless DMC3 Dante please be shirtless DMC3 Dante

 

[BZL8]

wait i'm getting conflicting reports of when DLC was decided. Was it ever clearly stated somewhere when it was decided upon?

Based on Sakurai's tweet, it was finalized in November.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 6, 2018

 

[ProfPeanut]

If the question was ever a matter of getting Hideki Kamiya character into Smash, then why didn't they pick Dante first? He'd have been chosen in almost any line of reasoning. Not being on a Nintendo platform would have been a pretty arbitrary argument, considering that cloud was chosen at the same time.

Perhaps consider that Bayonetta was not chosen as a Hideki Kamiya representative even if she now fills that role, then.

 

[Deleted member]

Based on Sakurai's tweet, it was finalized in November.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 6, 2018

Ah, I was off by a month.
Still later than October though.

 

[BZL8]

If the question was ever a matter of getting Hideki Kamiya character into Smash, then why didn't they pick Dante first? He'd have been chosen in almost any line of reasoning. Not being on a Nintendo platform would have been a pretty arbitrary argument, considering that cloud was chosen at the same time.

Perhaps consider that Bayonetta was not chosen as a Hideki Kamiya representative even if she now fills that role, then.

Ease of obtaining, perhaps? Because Nintendo has the Bayonetta series on lock-down, perhaps putting her in would be much, much easier than negotiating with Capcom for Dante.

 

[osby]

If the question was ever a matter of getting Hideki Kamiya character into Smash, then why didn't they pick Dante first? He'd have been chosen in almost any line of reasoning. Not being on a Nintendo platform would have been a pretty arbitrary argument, considering that cloud was chosen at the same time.

Perhaps consider that Bayonetta was not chosen as a Hideki Kamiya representative even if she now fills that role, then.

Simple answer is she was added for her own merits instead of repping something.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Variety doesn't mean "can't be from same genre".

As long as their fighting styles are different, that's variety.
The only thing similar in how Dante and Bayo fight are the fact they both use guns and come from combo-based games.

Saying there would be overlap in Smash is completely ignoring the huge claymore Dante carries around, the Devil Trigger, and pretty much everything else Dante would have access to that Bayo doesn't.

Their fighting styles had better be different! No one wants Bayonetta, but with a sword. Do you know how broken that would be?

 

[osby]

Their fighting styles had better be different! No one wants Bayonetta, but with a sword. Do you know how broken that would be?

Last time I checked Dante didn't have huge demon limbs or feet guns.

 

[Nemuresu]

I found this a few days ago and I feel like it's important to read:
https://www.gamesradar.com/heres-wh...vestor-qanda-new-online-switch-game-and-more/

[...] With Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, we asked 'How could we reach not only fans of the Super Smash Bros. series, but also those who had never played it before?' If you look at the demographics of the consumers who purchased each of these titles, Iʼm not convinced weʼve completely overcome these challenges yet. So our aims are to keep working on them this year, to expand sales of these titles to new consumer demographics, and to keep selling these games for a long time, which is one of our strengths."

I feel like this shows why Nintendo would go for a third-party line-up of characters in case we're really running into that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Last time I checked Dante didn't have huge demon limbs or feet guns.

I know. I was mostly kidding.

 

[Deleted member]

Their fighting styles had better be different! No one wants Bayonetta, but with a sword. Do you know how broken that would be?

Bladeonetta, everyone's worst nightmare.

 

[osby]

Also let's be honest, considering her current state, Bayonetta with a sword would barely be a viable character.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I found this a few days ago and I feel like it's important to read:
https://www.gamesradar.com/heres-wh...vestor-qanda-new-online-switch-game-and-more/

I feel like this shows why Nintendo would go for a third-party line-up of characters in case we're really running into that.

This is partly why I believe we'll get an out of nowhere wildcard pick. A character that wasn't on anyone's radar because most people thought it was impossible.