Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

Rex is pretty universally disliked outside of the Smash bubble.

Yup, I know many people who dislike Rex’s character in Xenoblade 2 and prefer Elma or Shulk by a mile.

First off, Bandana Waddle Dee is an important character. Granted he's in a bit of a weird spot due to only being playable in the four player games, but he has apeared consistantly since Kirby Returns to Dreamland in a series where most characters are one off. He's simmilar Impa except he has more than one appearance where he does stuff. TLDR; He's currently a supporting character, but not a minor one. That being said he's probably better as a base roster character and probably won't be DLC.

I’m gonna say this as someone who despises Bandana Waddle Dee.

I may dislike the character as much as I do to the point where I would prefer Adeleine by a mile as a possible Kirby newcomer, but the tiny thing does make sense as a Smash addition.

He is currently a key part of the main cast made by him, Kirby, Dedede and Meta Knight; making his presence in Smash understandable overall.

Will I play him at all if he gets in? Probably not since I don’t find him interest at all. But I wouldn’t find his presence out-of-place at all and maybe Sakurai manages to do the impossible and make him interesting in my eyes.

 

[Robdelia]

If Nintendo can sell a potted plant for $5 then there really is no excuse for "1st party characters won't sell."

 

[volbound1700]

This sounds awfully subjective and inconsistent. You listed console appearances, game plot and style in quick succession like you just don't like certain characters and trying to unsuccessfully find an excuse for it.

If you look at LOZ 1 & 2, Lttp, or WW it is clear that they fit with the Mario-style graphics. The original Metroids as well. Joker is a weird game series that is not well known. When I heard it (and most people that I know), instant thought was "Joker from Batman?" Bayonetta and Joker have come out as alright characters but I wouldn't have picked them over other options out there. Isaac from Golden Sun would have been a better pick than Joker and he is first party. I imagine SEGA probably put pressure on Nintendo to add Joker.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Reminder that Cloud and Joker appeared in Nintendo consoles before being announced for Smash. It's just they weren't their debut games.

It's admittedly crazy tho because the one Nintendo game Joker was in prior to Smash was a week shy of his Smash announcement. That kinda goes to show how much the "Nintendo importance" may actually affect a character, though SMT as a whole has been more Nintendo-centric.

 

[Guynamednelson]

If you look at LOZ 1 & 2, Lttp, or WW it is clear that they fit with the Mario-style graphics. The original Metroids as well. Joker is a weird game series that is not well known. When I heard it (and most people that I know), instant thought was "Joker from Batman?" Bayonetta and Joker have come out as alright characters but I wouldn't have picked them over other options out there. Isaac from Golden Sun would have been a better pick than Joker and he is first party. I imagine SEGA probably put pressure on Nintendo to add Joker.

I think you're just biased. Most Zelda reps aren't using the designs from those games, and Golden Sun also clashes with Mario's visuals.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Rex is pretty universally disliked outside of the Smash bubble.

Well that's sad. I thought he was a great character. Could be because I have a higher tolerance to characters based off of the generic anime protagonist archetype though.

Will I play him at all if he gets in? Probably not since I don’t find him interest at all. But I wouldn’t find his presence out-of-place at all and maybe Sakurai manages to do the impossible and make him interesting in my eyes.

Bandana Dee has potential in that he could summon Star Allies, but beyond that I think his uniqueness would stem from him being the smallest character with the largest amount of disjointed range. I personally think that's perfectly fine. Not everyone needs to have a Persona or a Witch Time or something.

If Nintendo can sell a potted plant for $5 then there really is no excuse for "1st party characters won't sell."

True but the potted plant was also free for quite a while. I'm sure people wouln't be nearly as accepting of it if it had been a fighters pass character.

If you look at LOZ 1 & 2, Lttp, or WW it is clear that they fit with the Mario-style graphics. The original Metroids as well. Joker is a weird game series that is not well known. When I heard it (and most people that I know), instant thought was "Joker from Batman?" Bayonetta and Joker have come out as alright characters but I wouldn't have picked them over other options out there. Isaac from Golden Sun would have been a better pick than Joker and he is first party. I imagine SEGA probably put pressure on Nintendo to add Joker.

Actually it was Sakurai that pushed for Joker's inclusion. Also, the Metroid series takes place on an alien planet that's teeming with pulsating biotic material and alien insectoids and the Mario series has dancing cartoony turtles. In what world are these art style choices similar?

 

[osby]

If you look at LOZ 1 & 2, Lttp, or WW it is clear that they fit with the Mario-style graphics. The original Metroids as well. Joker is a weird game series that is not well known. When I heard it (and most people that I know), instant thought was "Joker from Batman?" Bayonetta and Joker have come out as alright characters but I wouldn't have picked them over other options out there. Isaac from Golden Sun would have been a better pick than Joker and he is first party. I imagine SEGA probably put pressure on Nintendo to add Joker.

If you honestly think Metroid and Super Mario's art styles fit each other and SEGA can force Nintendo to add a character, you need to step back and realize your bias is clouding your objective judgement.

Also, again with anecdotal evidence and personal opinions that doesn't support your argument.

 

[Robdelia]

If you look at LOZ 1 & 2, Lttp, or WW it is clear that they fit with the Mario-style graphics. The original Metroids as well. Joker is a weird game series that is not well known. When I heard it (and most people that I know), instant thought was "Joker from Batman?" Bayonetta and Joker have come out as alright characters but I wouldn't have picked them over other options out there. Isaac from Golden Sun would have been a better pick than Joker and he is first party. I imagine SEGA probably put pressure on Nintendo to add Joker.

Persona 5 was at the Game Awards in 2017 and won best RPG of the year, and was in the running for overall GOTY. People know Persona 5. Maybe you didn't, but you aren't everyone.

 

[volbound1700]

Persona 5 was at the Game Awards in 2017 and won best RPG of the year, and was in the running for overall GOTY. People know Persona 5. Maybe you didn't, but you aren't everyone.

I have yet to meet one person that in real life (not on the internet) that has heard of Persona. Just saying. You are putting that character up against characters such as Mario, Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Simon Belmont, etc.

 

[Robertman2]

I have yet to meet one person that in real life (not on the internet) that has heard of Persona. Just saying. You are putting that character up against characters such as Mario, Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Simon Belmont, etc.

Fun fact, Persona 5 has sold more than any Mega Man game

 

[Ovaltine]

Fun fact, Persona 5 has sold more than any Mega Man game

True, but to put Joker and Persona 5 up there in popularity with the likes of characters like Mario and Sonic would be ludicrous. I say that as someone who absolutely loves the Persona series. Ask children, parents, teens, and even the elderly worldwide, and they will probably know who Mario or Sonic is. Ask the same of Joker and Persona 5 and they likely will think, "You mean the Batman villain?" I adore Persona and Joker is such a great addition, don't get me wrong, but to say that he's as iconic as Mario and Sonic is an absolutely ridiculous idea.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If you look at LOZ 1 & 2, Lttp, or WW it is clear that they fit with the Mario-style graphics. The original Metroids as well. Joker is a weird game series that is not well known. When I heard it (and most people that I know), instant thought was "Joker from Batman?" Bayonetta and Joker have come out as alright characters but I wouldn't have picked them over other options out there. Isaac from Golden Sun would have been a better pick than Joker and he is first party. I imagine SEGA probably put pressure on Nintendo to add Joker.

Weird, aside from Zelda in Ultimate and Toon Link, most Zelda characters in Smash don't use their designs from Zelda 1, 2, ALttP or WW. So I guess they don't fit in Smash.

Also, if Persona is 'a weird game series that is not well known', why is Golden Sun a good replacement. I love Golden Sun, but it's definitely not well known.

And I'll put this out there, because it needs to be said. Anyone who thought Joker was the Joker from Batman was either trolling or very ****ing stupid.

 

[ganondorf_22]

When will the Bubble Bobble dinosaurs be released as DLC?

Edit: Oh no, Square Enix owns their company now. :’’’’

 

[Ovaltine]

When will the Bubble Bobble dinosaurs be released as DLC?

Edit: Oh no, Square Enix owns their company now. :’’’’

Yeah, if your most wanted is a character that's been dead for a while and they belong to Square Enix, of all companies, good luck. The chances are so, so low for them to dredge them back up. They tend to focus on relevancy and what will bring them the biggest bucks.

 

[Deleted member]

I have yet to meet one person that in real life (not on the internet) that has heard of Persona. Just saying. You are putting that character up against characters such as Mario, Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Simon Belmont, etc.

You could say the same about most of the characters in the roster already and characters in the speculation scene :b

 

[Idon]

I have yet to meet one person that in real life (not on the internet) that has heard of Persona. Just saying. You are putting that character up against characters such as Mario, Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Simon Belmont, etc.

Ah yes, anecdotal evidence, a favorite of mine.

 

[RileyXY1]

A 3rd party character doesn't need to be some NES classic or important legacy character in order to get in. Look at Bayonetta and Joker.

 

[Deleted member]

And I'll put this out there, because it needs to be said. Anyone who thought Joker was the Joker from Batman was either trolling or very ****ing stupid.

If you don't see Joker and only hear "Joker is in Smash", then it wouldn't be unreasonable to question if somehow The Joker got in if you don't know anything about Persona 5.

 

[SmasherMaster]

I don't understand the arguement on icon status. If I were to ask people the names of the Smash characters, most of the people I know (ignoring the ones who play Smash) would only get the Mario cast and Pikachu right.

And if people mistook Joker for the Batman Joker, I wouldn't say that Joker himself isn't iconic, but he just suffers from sharing the same name as a more iconic character. Wouldn't that count to Ryu Hayabusa as well?

 

[Ovaltine]

I don't understand the arguement on icon status. If I were to ask people the names of the Smash characters, most of the people I know (ignoring the ones who play Smash) would only get the Mario cast and Pikachu right.

And if people mistook Joker for the Batman Joker, I wouldn't say that Joker himself isn't iconic, but he just suffers from sharing the same name as a more iconic character. Wouldn't that count to Ryu Hayabusa as well?

Iconic status doesn't matter, especially since 99% of the roster isn't what I'd even call 'iconic'. When I think of iconic, I think of RIDICULOUSLY huge characters that are just unanimously beloved worldwide, extremely well-known to the point that I'd be flabbergasted if you didn't know them, and important to gaming history on a fundamental level. I'd really only place characters like Mario, Pac-Man, Sonic, Link, and some others up on that pedestal.

Does everyone know Joker and Persona? No. Does everyone know Rosalina? No. Does everyone know Ridley? No. Does everyone know King K. freaking Rool? No. That's exactly the point. None of that even matters. Relevancy matters to an extent, way moreso for DLC than the base game, but that's about it. Iconic status is such a lofty reach that most characters can't even touch.

 

[Teeb147]

Fun fact, Persona 5 has sold more than any Mega Man game

As far as I know it hasn't sold more than Mega Man 2 and Mega Man X.
I dont think it's hit 3 million yet. But I'd think that should change quick enough now that joker's out in smash?

 

[GoodGrief741]

If you don't see Joker and only hear "Joker is in Smash", then it wouldn't be unreasonable to question if somehow The Joker got in if you don't know anything about Persona 5.

What's reasonable to assume is that there's a videogame character you don't know that's called Joker. Hearing 'Joker is in Smash' and assuming that somehow a comic book villain joined a videogame crossover is not reasonable.

 

[Teeb147]

When will the Bubble Bobble dinosaurs be released as DLC?

Edit: Oh no, Square Enix owns their company now. :’’’’

Hey maybe there's a chance for Bub and Bob mii costumes when it's SE's turn

 

[Deleted member]

What's reasonable to assume is that there's a videogame character you don't know that's called Joker. Hearing 'Joker is in Smash' and assuming that somehow a comic book villain joined a videogame crossover is not reasonable.

Expecting people to immediately think about the idea that there's a video game character named Joker instead of immediately thinking of someone AS ICONIC AND AS WELL KNOWN as the Batman villain when they hear the word "Joker" if they know nothing of Persona is what's unreasonable, dude.

Get out of your anti-non-video game character mindset and think logically.

 

[Ovaltine]

Expecting people to immediately think about the idea that there's a video game character named Joker instead of immediately thinking of someone AS ICONIC AND AS WELL KNOWN as the Batman villain when they hear the word "Joker" if they know nothing of Persona is what's unreasonable, dude.

Get out of your anti-non-video game character mindset and think logically.

It's also not just that, but let's not forget the fact that this is only in a Smash context. If you were to bring up the name 'Joker' without further context, without Smash involved, people would obviously think that they mean the Batman villain. Unless you brought up Persona 5, it's kind of a natural reaction with the environment we have here.

 

[thisjustin2001]

If Nintendo can sell a potted plant for $5 then there really is no excuse for "1st party characters won't sell."

Did he sell at 5 dollars, though? The only people I've heard of that have Plant are people who got him for free or crazy big Smash fans that'll buy every DLC, regardless of what it is.

 

[volbound1700]

As stated, I literally don't have anyone that I know in real life that had heard of Joker or had played Persona. I live in Tennessee in the United States.

Now I could go through 60% - 70% of the characters on the roster and find someone that would know the characters. I could go through 100% of the third party and that would be true. Typically the Earthbound, Fire Emblem, and other Retro Nintendo IP isn't as well known.

 

[thisjustin2001]

As stated, I literally don't have anyone that I know in real life that had heard of Joker or had played Persona. I live in Tennessee in the United States.

Now I could go through 60% - 70% of the characters on the roster and find someone that would know the characters. I could go through 100% of the third party and that would be true. Typically the Earthbound, Fire Emblem, and other Retro Nintendo IP isn't as well known.

None of my friends (even my PS4 gamer friends) had heard of Joker. So yeah, same here. Kinda feels like when I was telling my friends Bayonetta got into Smash. Then again, I'm in the loop, and I've barely heard of Persona or Bayonetta prior to their reveals, and I had no idea who on Earth Richter was before his reveal. Just kinda makes me wonder who they were trying to please with these picks, haha.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

None of my friends (even my PS4 gamer friends) had heard of Joker. So yeah, same here. Kinda feels like when I was telling my friends Bayonetta got into Smash. Then again, I'm in the loop, and I've barely heard of Persona or Bayonetta prior to their reveals, and I had no idea who on Earth Richter was before his reveal. Just kinda makes me wonder who they were trying to please with these picks, haha.

In the case of Richter, he's a Japanese pick. Simon is the Western pick. They were intentionally picked together to represent the main characters of Castlevania.

Bayonetta was easily fairly low on the iconic scale, and so is Joker It makes sense why many have no clue who they are. I think semi-obscure picks like that will continue. Incidentally it does a lot for characters like Banjo & Kazooie who suffer from this to some degree.

 

[Freduardo]

Look, we’re talking about what video game character people think of when they say Joker

Spoiler

So this guy, right?

 

[volbound1700]

I had heard of Bayonetta. Never played it but it is moderately successful. I an alright with Joker, don't get me wrong. I just didn't think it was the best pick and I wasn't thrilled. I was disappointed with Bayonetta as well but she grew on me.

 

[GoodGrief741]

As stated, I literally don't have anyone that I know in real life that had heard of Joker or had played Persona. I live in Tennessee in the United States.

Now I could go through 60% - 70% of the characters on the roster and find someone that would know the characters. I could go through 100% of the third party and that would be true. Typically the Earthbound, Fire Emblem, and other Retro Nintendo IP isn't as well known.

Again, whatever people you know doesn't matter. All of my friends know about Joker and Persona, that's not evidence of anything.

None of my friends (even my PS4 gamer friends) had heard of Joker. So yeah, same here. Kinda feels like when I was telling my friends Bayonetta got into Smash. Then again, I'm in the loop, and I've barely heard of Persona or Bayonetta prior to their reveals, and I had no idea who on Earth Richter was before his reveal. Just kinda makes me wonder who they were trying to please with these picks, haha.

And this proves why anecdotal evidence is laughable. Richter Belmont is a main character in Symphony of the Night, considered one of the best games in its genre, its franchise, its console, its time period, and in history. So the fact that some people don't know who he is is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[IanTheGamer]

The character I want most is Krystal, we don't have a staff user on the roster, and no, Palutena doesn't count

 

[Robertman2]

The character I want most is Krystal, we don't have a staff user on the roster, and no, Palutena doesn't count

Palutena counts.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Palutena counts.

She quite does. She's not a case of using a more Bo Staff, which is not really what Krystal uses so much as a Magical Staff(like Palutena does).

Of course, they can still be very unique, but they pretty much use similar weapons to a degree.

 

[Blobbyfish]

So, I just rewatched the 3.0 update trailer and I realized that one of the stages previewed in the stage builder segment was a witch with a cauldron. This could just be a small and insignificant thing that I’m overthinking, but it could also be a reference to Gruntilda, pointing towards Banjo being DLC!

 

[Captain Fun]

So, I just rewatched the 3.0 update trailer and I realized that one of the stages previewed in the stage builder segment was a witch with a cauldron. This could just be a small and insignificant thing that I’m overthinking, but it could also be a reference to Gruntilda, pointing towards Banjo being DLC!

Banjo is one of my dream picks but it really just looks like a generic witch. Look at the Wicked Witch of the West or Witch Hazel from Loony Tunes.

Spoiler

dont get my hopes up

 

[thisjustin2001]

Again, whatever people you know doesn't matter. All of my friends know about Joker and Persona, that's not evidence of anything.

And this proves why anecdotal evidence is laughable. Richter Belmont is a main character in Symphony of the Night, considered one of the best games in its genre, its franchise, its console, its time period, and in history. So the fact that some people don't know who he is is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not saying this to try to prove any point. I literally was just stating that myself and the people in my circle of friends didn't know who these characters were. I wasn't using my friends not knowing who these obscure characters were as "evidence" or whatever you're trying to say. So, please don't be offended by my post.

 

[random rendum]

Honestly, I could see Erdrick being very unique. When you look at his arsenal in the source material and even at the other yuushas, he has a wide variety of things up his sleeve. He isn't just a sword fighter. Steve has way more than just a sword, as well. Can't say I'm too aware of what Chief's move set would be like. Crash would be ridiculously unique with the kinda crazy stuff he could implement, both as a brawler and as a wild card in general. Doomguy would have good potential, but... eh. I'd mostly only care for him being in because I love old-school Doom.

When it comes to a lot of most wanted newcomers, I honestly think they have a lot to bring to the table. Banjo, the one I'm rooting for, has so much move set potential that literally no other character would have. His and Kazooie's range is nuts. Really, the amount of neat stuff we could get makes it just that much harder to pinpoint who Sakurai and Nintendo have chosen.

beady long legs would be perfect and no one can tell me otherwise though

Erdrick would be anorher swordfighter I feel, and would't be very unique, sure he has magic, but so does Robin.

Also... Beady Long Legs Rise Up.

A large part of Crash's identity is that he is literally insane. It's so integral to the character that even the game mechanics enforce these traits (namely in bashing your head in with every box you missed). At a surface level Crash would definitely look like a standard brawler, but he would also have some sort of shenanigans involving boxes and perhaps even some super armour stuff from Aku Aku.

Eh, His insanity is more of a personality trait. I guess you could make a moveset with him, but I don't think most of his attacks except for his specials would be that unique.

He was talking about "missing first parties" not "are they actually realistic"



Oh boy hypothetical originality, as if this stupid concept hasn't been argued enough.

Not sure how originality is a "stupid" concept. Every other fighter from this game so far is original, unique, and had moveset potential. Except Isabelle. so wouldn't make sense to have a character like Erdrick who probably wouldn't add much.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Eh, His insanity is more of a personality trait. I guess you could make a moveset with him, but I don't think most of his attacks except for his specials would be that unique.

Most characters' movesets are influenced by their personality. For Crash specifically, I'm not sure if he can be truly represented without both his animations and game mechanics conveying that insanity.

So, I just rewatched the 3.0 update trailer and I realized that one of the stages previewed in the stage builder segment was a witch with a cauldron. This could just be a small and insignificant thing that I’m overthinking, but it could also be a reference to Gruntilda, pointing towards Banjo being DLC!

This is a red herring. This will remain a red herring even if Banjo & Kazooie do get in.