Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RetrogamerMax]

I also would like to add to your post about Mach Rider's chances.

Spoiler

I strongly agree. Another thing to add is his trophy, which has been missing since Brawl. I notice all the retro characters never had a trophy in the previous Smash games before their inclusion like: and .

The ducks from Duck Hunt had a trophy in Melee, but the Duck Hunt Dog didn't. The fact that Mach Rider's trophy has been missing since Brawl and his music is still in the game after all these years truly convinces me he has a great chance of making it in.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

One of them is definitely a Pokemon likely Incineroar

Unfortunately. I’m even ok with Incineroar because i like the heel angle and a friend of mine loves the idea of a heel Pokémon playable in Smash.

That said, he’d actually be the least hype reveal. In part because he’s not all that popular on his own (He certainly doesn’t have the stand out status of other Pokémon we currently have fan base wise) and also because well, Pokemon are the easiest newcomers to guess generally speaking. At least Isabelle is a significantly more popular character in her own right and less likely.

I’d love to be wrong and us not actually see a new Pokémon because I don’t think we need another when we got three back necessarily, and I wish if we did it was someone else. That said, I’ve basically made my peace with Incineroar on the roster...

 

[StormC]

Said it before, a Pokemon newcomer is like death and taxes. Good to make peace with it now because it won’t go away anytime soon.

Speaking as a lifelong Pokemon fan, I pretty much always welcome them on the roster because they have the biggest variety of potential fighters and I like pretty much all the ones they add (Jigglypuff I can take or leave, don’t care for Pichu but obviously Everyone Is Here). Looking forward to Incineroar.

I mean, unless we’d rather talk about how much we would love another Fire Emblem character.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I still have my doubts that it's Incineroar. Pichu, Lucario, Greninja, Lycanroc, they all fit with the marketing of their time. Incineroar, not so much.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I am going to share an analysis that I wanted to make for a while now. This analysis is about potential third-party newcomers in Ultimate in general.

You might generally known me for predicting guest fighters specifically from Japanese third-party franchises that are popular worldwide. There has been a possibility regarding these kinds of third-parties that has been swinging around my mind for a while, that is the idea that we get every huge Japanese third-party gaming icon in Smash Ultimate. Sakurai made an honorable goal to get every veteran back in Smash Ultimate. With that goal being achieved in the span of three years, it makes me wonder if Sakurai has any other big ambitious content that he has yet to reveal. Considering the third-party world-wide popular statement, the frequency of Sakurai being happy to represent Japanese gaming in the roster, the number of third-party companies he is working with closely with for content (ranging from characters to assist trophies), it would not surprise me if Sakurai naturally thought of the idea to add the remaining Japanese gaming icons. I can see the thought process going like this:

"Hmm... I already have these big Japanese gaming icons present in the roster like Mega Man, Pac-Man, Sonic, Cloud, Ryu, representing a variety of genres and evolutionary steps in gaming."

"With the companies I already have licensed with Ultimate's budget to be to easily negotiate IPs for Smash content, why not add the remaining icons from those companies like Simon Belmont, Frogger, Heihachi, Sora, and Lloyd? There are not that many icons left to add after all."

"I think this is a another goal I want achieve alongside getting every veteran back to truly surprise players, elevating Ultimate's roster from great to unbelievably amazing. This will be a roster that represents the best of Japanese gaming."

I feel we may be in for a real treat sometime in the next two months. I will acknowledge that he may not be able to achieve this easily through the base game, perhaps it will take time to build that line-up of big Japanese third-parties through DLC means. The more I think about the possibility, the more I feel it is going to happen. Sakurai has been pushing his limits to make Ultimate the best character fighting game ever, and I would not be surprised if he chose to make this feat one of his big goals for Ultimate's project plan. (This way of thinking is also why I generally do not expect Western third-parties to get in the base roster, though I think these choices might become a possibility in DLC down the line.)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I really doubt we are getting a "retro rep" as a newcomer for this game. The only thing pointing towards one happening is past trends which don't really matter for this game as Ultimate is clearly a different beast roster-wise.

And on that note, I don't think people should really be expecting any low-popularity curveball newcomers (at least in terms of non-echo newcomers) given the clear emphasis on fan-favourites for this game with Sakurai even stating "We've streamlined the conditions for unlocking fighters and we want to make the process interesting so it feels like you're constantly recruiting popular characters on your side" in regards to this roster. Richter is the one newcomer that got a ton of "who?" reactions and he's a bonus addition, being an Echo Fighter (and he's also popular within the Castlevania fanbase).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm incline to believe since the newcomers for Ultimate is pretty much fanservice and based off the ballot mostly.

 

[AuraCuba]

It's surprising how many leaks and predictions forget that Namco exists. Namco should get another rep, maybe Klonoa or the Prince. Klonoa is more requested, but the Prince is more relevant.

 

[RileyXY1]

It's surprising how many leaks and predictions forget that Namco exists. Namco should get another rep, maybe Klonoa or the Prince. Klonoa is more requested, but the Prince is more relevant.

There's also Heihachi Mishima, Lloyd Irving, and Agumon.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It's surprising how many leaks and predictions forget that Namco exists. Namco should get another rep, maybe Klonoa or the Prince. Klonoa is more requested, but the Prince is more relevant.

Not many forget Namco, but the consensus seems to be that Heihachi is the go-to pick for a new Namco rep, and barring that, Lloyd Irving.

I don’t think that Namco will get another rep in base.

 

[Gemini-Gene]

Been waiting since Smash 4 but I'm still waiting on Ms. Pac-Man as either an alt costume or an echo fighter. She would also be a good pick for an unofficial retro choice.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Been waiting since Smash 4 but I'm still waiting on Ms. Pac-Man as either an alt costume or an echo fighter. She would also be a good pick for an unofficial retro choice.

I mean this in the least disrespectful way possible, but part of me wonders what kind of life you must have lived to eagerly await Ms. Pac-Man in Smash. That's not to say that she wouldn't work or that you're wrong to want her, it just seems like a particularly weird one to get excited about.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I'm incline to believe since the newcomers for Ultimate is pretty much fanservice and based off the ballot mostly.

Probably with a couple of acceptions the gen 7 rep (incineroar) for one case

And there’s always those didn’t see that coming characters

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Probably with a couple of acceptions the gen 7 rep (incineroar) for one case

And there’s always those didn’t see that coming characters

That's why I said "mostly".

 

[Gemini-Gene]

I mean this in the least disrespectful way possible, but part of me wonders what kind of life you must have lived to eagerly await Ms. Pac-Man in Smash. That's not to say that she wouldn't work or that you're wrong to want her, it just seems like a particularly weird one to get excited about.

I find it weirder that you were triggered enough to look at my post and exaggerated a simple interest I had for a possible newcomer in Smash, while also admitting that you took the time to fantasize what some strangers life would be for wanting said character for Smash.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

I find it weirder that you were triggered enough to look at my post and exaggerated a simple interest I had for a possible newcomer in Smash, while also admitting that you took the time to fantasize what some strangers life would be for wanting said character for Smash.

I wasn't triggered. I think I made that pretty clear considering that I used a reasonably nice tone. I just thought it funny that someone out there actually cares about Ms. Pac-Man.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Officially decided on my prediction of who is left and for real this time. Give or take.

Spoiler

 

[Gemini-Gene]

I wasn't triggered. I think I made that pretty clear considering that I used a reasonably nice tone. I just thought it funny that someone out there actually cares about Ms. Pac-Man.

You should put more effort into your passive aggressive insults, my guy. Also you clearly are triggered because out of all of the support threads on the Internet the one that gave you the twitch was Ms. Pac-Man? I've seen much questionable choices on this site over the years alone but I don't attempt to troll individuals over a character. There are people who want a bandana wearing Waddle Dee but hey people can support what they like.

I don't know your history or feelings towards Pac-Man's wife but you should personally take it up with Namco.

 

[SmashBro99]

Am I the only one who is still pulling for Waluigi?

Hear me out before you call me delusional haha

It may be a weak argument but I've looked through every uploaded match of the demos and while people try to avoid using items, they sure grab Assist Trophies a whole lot, the first bunch of Assists that were revealed have all been shown in those matches a bunch of times but not Waluigi once. Sure, that's possibly rng but my theory is Sakurai is planning for him to be a surprise entrant, that footage from E3 where he is used to show that Assists can get KO'd is the only time we've seen him as an Assist. I've looked into it and removing an Assist Trophy character is as easy as deleting a line of text and then he wouldn't show up anymore, so maybe that's what happened...otherwise he's kinda cruel to show a character he knows is popular and wanted to be a fighter get beat up as an Assist Trophy again.

We know how particular and specific Sakurai is about a character not appearing as two different roles (Rathalos tho) so he would have removed him in the demo build, its just the way he thinks. And if any character is going to cheat and sneak his way into smash, it's Waluigi. Sakurai would also have him put on the official site as an Assist Trophy to throw us off as well.

Sorry for those who hate him or don't want him. But I want him over anyone else, I genuinely enjoy the character very much, it sucks that due to all the memes most people see him negatively but he does have a genuine fanbase, and I wanted to hear thoughts on this from this community, I've talked about this on some youtube videos and I'm usually just called delusional or straight up flamed. I feel without Waluigi are missing the fourth and final piece. Can you imagine the internet after he's revealed, it might actually break it.

Does this make sense to anyone else? Or am I a delusional idiot like youtube kids say? Or is my whole argument just rng and hopeless?

Either way thanks to whoever took the time to read this, and hopefully I won't be insulted for wanting a character in Smash Bros here even if he is highly unlikely...or in most people's mind already deconfirmed, I'm just a guy holding on to a small chance for my favorite character to make it, like most of us here.

Also I don't want to turn this into a debate over this characters "relevancy" or "potential" or lack there of. I'm always up for throwing my 2 cents about that in (have tons of ideas on everything) but I'd really just appreciate feedback on what I've said.

 

[UnknownJ25]

If I had my choice at the newcomers I'd personally pick:

Spoiler: Hypothetical Smash roster

 

[Gemini-Gene]

Am I the only one who is still pulling for Waluigi?

Hear me out before you call me delusional haha

It may be a weak argument but I've looked through every uploaded match of the demos and while people try to avoid using items, they sure grab Assist Trophies a whole lot, the first bunch of Assists that were revealed have all been shown in those matches a bunch of times but not Waluigi once. Sure, that's possibly rng but my theory is Sakurai is planning for him to be a surprise entrant, that footage from E3 where he is used to show that Assists can get KO'd is the only time we've seen him as an Assist. I've looked into it and removing an Assist Trophy character is as easy as deleting a line of text and then he wouldn't show up anymore, so maybe that's what happened...otherwise he's kinda cruel to show a character he knows is popular and wanted to be a fighter get beat up as an Assist Trophy again.

We know how particular and specific Sakurai is about a character not appearing as two different roles (Rathalos tho) so he would have removed him in the demo build, its just the way he thinks. And if any character is going to cheat and sneak his way into smash, it's Waluigi. Sakurai would also have him put on the official site as an Assist Trophy to throw us off as well.

Sorry for those who hate him or don't want him. But I want him over anyone else, I genuinely enjoy the character very much, it sucks that due to all the memes most people see him negatively but he does have a genuine fanbase, and I wanted to hear thoughts on this from this community, I've talked about this on some youtube videos and I'm usually just called delusional or straight up flamed. I feel without Waluigi are missing the fourth and final piece. Can you imagine the internet after he's revealed, it might actually break it.

Does this make sense to anyone else? Or am I a delusional idiot like youtube kids say? Or is my whole argument just rng and hopeless?

Either way thanks to whoever took the time to read this, and hopefully I won't be insulted for wanting a character in Smash Bros here even if he is highly unlikely...or in most people's mind already deconfirmed, I'm just a guy holding on to a small chance for my favorite character to make it, like most of us here.

Also I don't want to turn this into a debate over this characters "relevancy" or "potential" or lack there of. I'm always up for throwing my 2 cents about that in (have tons of ideas on everything) but I'd really just appreciate feedback on what I've said.

Here's my feedback for Waluigi.

Spoiler

 

[War Anvil]

Here's what my choice for newcomers would be (Bold meaning personal favorites):

Spoiler

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

You should put more effort into your passive aggressive insults, my guy. Also you clearly are triggered because out of all of the support threads on the Internet the one that gave you the twitch was Ms. Pac-Man? I've seen much questionable choices on this site over the years alone but I don't attempt to troll individuals over a character. There are people who want a bandana wearing Waddle Dee but hey people can support what they like.

I don't know your history or feelings towards Pac-Man's wife but you should personally take it up with Namco.

I'm not being passive aggressive, and I'm not sure why you seem to think that I am. I didn't get a twitch, I just thought it funny that anyone actually paid any mind to what, to me, is essentially a relatively obscure cross-dressing Pac-Man. I'm neither trolling nor angry, I really did just find it funny. I'm not sure why you seem to think that I'm attacking you when I quite literally began my comment with "I mean this in the least disrespectful way possible" and specifically noted that "that's not to say that she wouldn't work or that you're wrong to want her, it just seems like a particularly weird one to get excited about."

Seems to me like you're taking this much more personally than you should.

 

[Gemini-Gene]

I'm not being passive aggressive, and I'm not sure why you seem to think that I am. I didn't get a twitch, I just thought it funny that anyone actually paid any to what, to me, is essentially a relatively obscure cross-dressing Pac-Man. I'm neither trolling nor angry, I really did just find it funny. I'm not sure why you seem to think that I'm attacking you when I quite literally began my comment with "I mean this in the least disrespectful way possible" and specifically noted that "that's not to say that she wouldn't work or that you're wrong to want her, it just seems like a particularly weird one to get excited about."

Seems to me like you're taking this much more personally than you should.

I see your point on how she looks like a cross dressing Pac-Man, preferably the design that Namco presented earlier this year. But it explains why the thought of Ms. Pac-Man would make you feel weird or think it was funny, which again you will need to sort that out yourself. And I don't feel personally attacked at all nor did I ever claim that I was ever excited on the chance Ms. Pac-Man could be an alt costume or echo fighter. Talking about her chances in Smash is literally no different from the basic character speculation going on everyday. This is not that serious lol

Let's just agree that there was a misunderstanding from reading my first post and we can carry on.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

So the results of the Monday round of the tournament poll were just posted:

Spoiler: Large Image

Put in the simplest of terms:

 

[GoodGrief741]

Am I the only one who is still pulling for Waluigi?

Hear me out before you call me delusional haha

It may be a weak argument but I've looked through every uploaded match of the demos and while people try to avoid using items, they sure grab Assist Trophies a whole lot, the first bunch of Assists that were revealed have all been shown in those matches a bunch of times but not Waluigi once. Sure, that's possibly rng but my theory is Sakurai is planning for him to be a surprise entrant, that footage from E3 where he is used to show that Assists can get KO'd is the only time we've seen him as an Assist. I've looked into it and removing an Assist Trophy character is as easy as deleting a line of text and then he wouldn't show up anymore, so maybe that's what happened...otherwise he's kinda cruel to show a character he knows is popular and wanted to be a fighter get beat up as an Assist Trophy again.

We know how particular and specific Sakurai is about a character not appearing as two different roles (Rathalos tho) so he would have removed him in the demo build, its just the way he thinks. And if any character is going to cheat and sneak his way into smash, it's Waluigi. Sakurai would also have him put on the official site as an Assist Trophy to throw us off as well.

Sorry for those who hate him or don't want him. But I want him over anyone else, I genuinely enjoy the character very much, it sucks that due to all the memes most people see him negatively but he does have a genuine fanbase, and I wanted to hear thoughts on this from this community, I've talked about this on some youtube videos and I'm usually just called delusional or straight up flamed. I feel without Waluigi are missing the fourth and final piece. Can you imagine the internet after he's revealed, it might actually break it.

Does this make sense to anyone else? Or am I a delusional idiot like youtube kids say? Or is my whole argument just rng and hopeless?

Either way thanks to whoever took the time to read this, and hopefully I won't be insulted for wanting a character in Smash Bros here even if he is highly unlikely...or in most people's mind already deconfirmed, I'm just a guy holding on to a small chance for my favorite character to make it, like most of us here.

Also I don't want to turn this into a debate over this characters "relevancy" or "potential" or lack there of. I'm always up for throwing my 2 cents about that in (have tons of ideas on everything) but I'd really just appreciate feedback on what I've said.

Let it go pal. I also want Waluigi in the game but clinging on to nonexistent chances is just gonna hurt more in the long run.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Let it go pal. I also want Waluigi in the game but clinging on to nonexistent chances is just gonna hurt more in the long run.

I bought into the "Ridley's shadow doesn't deconfirm him" craze back during Smash 4, and even I thought Waluigi's exclusion was pretty cut-and-dry.
He's been a quasi-veteran since Brawl, so his exclusion from the E3 build alongside Meta Ridley could simply be excused by him being such a low priority character to include. The only Assist Trophies to be given special treatment have either been promoted to playable (Dark Samus) or are newcomers to Ultimate.

 

[SmashBro99]

Let it go pal. I also want Waluigi in the game but clinging on to nonexistent chances is just gonna hurt more in the long run.

I've already accepted that he's probably been left behind again, but as a fan I'm gonna have to say it's not over until it's over.

Which I guess will be once I see him actually summoned in play, not a clip the team could have played with after, or a blog post.

 

[Daedulus]

I've already accepted that he's probably been left behind again, but as a fan I'm gonna have to say it's not over until it's over.

Which I guess will be once I see him actually summoned in play, not a clip the team could have played with after, or a blog post.

he will neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrr happen

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm worried that someone will think Waluigi is 100% confirmed because footage of his AT wasn't shown the exact second the game released.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Best I got

Unique

Incineroar
Geno (hey if masterofhyrule got it right we get a double dip with Sora)
Skull kid (I’m still on team the moon is taking skull kids place)
Banjo and kazooie (if not base then DLC and probably put either Isaac or bandana dee)
(Not entirely convinced on steve just yet might be assist trophy or stage or involved with stage builder)

Echos
Ken
Shadow
Dixie Kong (she did not dodge the echo bullet yet)
Medusa or black knight

Dlc (some are if they are not base

The missing generations Pokémon (one is a 8 gen)
(Gardevoir, genesect and whatever 8th gen is my best guess)
Sylux
Banjo and kazooie
Bandana dee
Isaac

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Let it go pal. I also want Waluigi in the game but clinging on to nonexistent chances is just gonna hurt more in the long run.

To think not even people are this persistent towards Shovel Knight...Why is it that when any other characters has been deconfirmed people yets and yet that Waluigi is an exception and they continue to clamor for him? Is he like this god or something to them?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

To think not even people are this persistent towards Shovel Knight...Why is it that when any other characters has been deconfirmed people yets and yet that Waluigi is an exception and they continue to clamor for him? Is he like this god or something to them?

Because Waluigi is seen as a meme, and the ultimate troll move would be to disconfirm him as an assist trophy and reveal him as a playable character. The idea fits with the character’s persona and people believe that Sakurai is that big of a troll I guess?

Thus people believe this weird narrative that’s Waluigi will somehow show up before the game is officially released as playable.

Despite the fact that Sakurai has never been one for long cons, and we’ve seen that multiple times. He loves to poke fun at parts of the community and have fun with the game, but that’s generally very short term or with references. He’s never done a bait and switch like this to this extent (a six month con) and I doubt he’ll do it here. But people want their meme character in (and those who do want him and haven’t accepted it also). Though primarily the people I’ve seen with this belief are either desperate for Waluigi, or just overall trolls anyway who’d want the junk of Shrek and Boss Baby in Smash for the lulz and meme potential...

To be clear I want him, I just think there is no reason to believe a bait and switch is happening. I’m hesitant to call people delusional, but this might be the exception. I think he’s got a chance for DLC maybe though

 

[TheRekounasShow]

Swampert plz

 

[Michael the Spikester]

This is what I'm predicting how the final characters are gonna be revealed.

Minecon: Steve(69) is revealed
October: Incineroar(70) and Ken(60e) are revealed in a Lucina/Robin style trailer
November: Final Smash Direct reveals Elma(71), Geno(72), Dixie Kong(36e), Shadow(38e) and Medusa(54e) as the final characters

 

[TheRekounasShow]

This is what I'm predicting how the final characters are gonna be revealed.

Minecon: Steve(69) is revealed
October: Incineroar(70) and Ken(60e) are revealed in a Lucina/Robin style trailer
November: Final Smash Direct reveals Elma(71), Geno(72), Dixie Kong(36e), Shadow(38e) and Medusa(54e) as the final characters

I'd laugh at steve being in the game but also cry inside

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'd laugh at steve being in the game but also cry inside

Honestly I'd be satisfied with these final reveals especially with Medusa being in it.

And as long as Banjo is still DLC.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

From most confident to least confident, I expect that Bandana Dee, Lloyd Irving, Incineroar, Geno, Ken, Shadow, and either Isaac or Sora are the remaining the characters.

Bandana Gee is tremendously popular, first party, a developer darling, and has suspicious amiibo data, Lloyd has too much evidence in his favor to really list here, Incineroar is the current generation's anime starter, Geno is very popular, received a Mii costume, is a developer darling, and has nearly been included in the past, and Ken and Shadow both offer the most bang for their buck as far as echos are concerned. Isaac and Sora are trickier - the only thing Sora has going for him is that strange Famitsu press op, but that's more compelling than Isaac's only real strength, which is his decent popularity.

As far as DLC is concerned, I could see Banjo, Lloyd, Heihachi, Ken, and maybe even Shantae.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sora I personally expect will be DLC honestly. It'd make the deal between Nintendo and Disney a lot better with the latter getting money back.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I have a strange feeling about all this... I think that the final roster (including DLCs) will be a lot different than what most of us expect...

I think that at some point it will turn out that vergeben's leak is not completely correct and that some unexpected stuff will happen.

I especially predict that the main roster will be extremely disappointing and that they are doing it on purpose to push paid DLCs, but maybe I'm too much pessimistic.