Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[TeamFlareZakk]

Except they already had their chance to show off a character this month and they had just the one. There’s never multiple character reveals in the same month unless they’re in the same direct.

We’ll get the final Smash Direct with probably 2 unique reveals and any remaining echoes. However is left besides that is anybody’s guess. They definitely won’t reveal the last characters just a few days before release, risk of a leak is way too high. I expect the final blowout to be before the game goes gold.

Yep this month was pretty lame as far as reveals go, hopefully the next one is better next month.. They should show Medusa in the next set, shes due for her reveal.

 

[Captain Shades]

The OG Doom was on SNES, and that was regarded as the best console port of the game at the time. Doom 64 also happened. Doom has Nintendo history going way back.

I knew something felt off. Wonder why people say that Doom Guy isn’t Nintendo enough to be in Smash then? The franchise is huge, so a playable character shouldn’t be out of the realm of possibilities.

 

[RileyXY1]

I knew something felt off. Wonder why people say that Doom Guy isn’t Nintendo enough to be in Smash then? The franchise is huge, so a playable character shouldn’t be out of the realm of possibilities.

Well, Doom has had a bunch of games for Nintendo consoles. The original was ported to the SNES and the GBA, Doom 2 also got a GBA port, Doom 64 was made exclusively for the Nintendo 64, and Doom 2016 is on the Switch. Doom Eternal will also make it onto the Switch. Doom 3 is the only "main" Doom game to never touch a Nintendo console.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I knew something felt off. Wonder why people say that Doom Guy isn’t Nintendo enough to be in Smash then? The franchise is huge, so a playable character shouldn’t be out of the realm of possibilities.

Probably because of how bloody the game is. Doom 2016 certainly took the series in a more over the top direction with realistic gore, and many feel that he either wouldn’t be a good fit, or he would have to be toned down to a level where he wouldn’t feel like himself.

 

[SmashChu]

True, Im not looking forward to Steve.. I want to see Medusa!

Most people aren't. He's always been more expected than wanted which usually doesn't work out well for a character's chances.

 

[StormC]

I knew something felt off. Wonder why people say that Doom Guy isn’t Nintendo enough to be in Smash then? The franchise is huge, so a playable character shouldn’t be out of the realm of possibilities.

Doom isn't that big. The series has only sold 8.5 million units worldwide, not to mention that FPS games are an anathema to Japanese audiences.

But also, most Nintendo fans didn't grow up playing Doom games since those releases were fairly obscure. They did grow up playing series like Street Fighter, Mega Man, Castlevania, or Sonic post-Dreamcast, but not really Doom.

I'm pretty picky about third party characters though, so y'know. The less Smash becomes MUGEN, the better.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Doom isn't that big. The series has only sold 8.5 million units worldwide, not to mention that FPS games are an anathema to Japanese audiences.

But also, most Nintendo fans didn't grow up playing Doom games since those releases were fairly obscure. They did grow up playing series like Street Fighter, Mega Man, Castlevania, or Sonic post-Dreamcast, but not really Doom.

I'm pretty picky about third party characters though, so y'know. The less Smash becomes MUGEN, the better.

Doom was not obscure, by any definition of the word. FPSs, for console or PC, were referred to as Doom clones for the longest time. Id and John Romero were celebrities amongst both the PC and console market, and which Doom port was better was used as an argument in the console wars.

 

[StormC]

Doom was not obscure, by any definition of the word. FPSs, for console or PC, were referred to as Doom clones for the longest time. Id and John Romero were celebrities amongst both the PC and console market, and which Doom port was better was used as an argument in the console wars.

I mean "those releases" of Doom. Obviously Doom was huge on the PC. But the Nintendo versions didn't achieve their level of mainstream success. SNES Doom and Doom 64 didn't hit the top 50 for either of their systems. To most Nintendo fans, those games were a blip on the radar.

 

[Captain Shades]

Doom isn't that big. The series has only sold 8.5 million units worldwide, not to mention that FPS games are an anathema to Japanese audiences.

But also, most Nintendo fans didn't grow up playing Doom games since those releases were fairly obscure. They did grow up playing series like Street Fighter, Mega Man, Castlevania, or Sonic post-Dreamcast, but not really Doom.

I'm pretty picky about third party characters though, so y'know. The less Smash becomes MUGEN, the better.

Aren’t you the same person that wants Banjo, a series that’s first entry sold a little under half of Doom’s sales (3.65m) , and the sequel just barely surpassing 1/8 of those sales (1.49m)

 

[RileyXY1]

I mean "those releases" of Doom. Obviously Doom was huge on the PC. But the Nintendo versions didn't achieve their level of mainstream success. SNES Doom and Doom 64 didn't hit the top 50 for either of their systems. To most Nintendo fans, those games were a blip on the radar.

Doom 64 became popular after it was released, to the point where two attempts were made to bring it to the PC.

 

[Captain Shades]

Probably because of how bloody the game is. Doom 2016 certainly took the series in a more over the top direction with realistic gore, and many feel that he either wouldn’t be a good fit, or he would have to be toned down to a level where he wouldn’t feel like himself.

That shouldn’t matter at this point. Bayonetta was overly violent and sexual yet was able to be toned down respectfully and Snake was in a somewhat similar postiotion to The Doom Slayer.

 

[StormC]

Aren’t you the same person that wants Banjo, a series that’s first entry sold a little under half of Doom’s sales (3.65m) , and the sequel just barely surpassing 1/8 of those sales (1.49m)

I'm simply explaining why Doom isn't that popular in the context of Smash, because the series didn't hit it big on Nintendo consoles compared to the PC.

I've said before that I prefer to argue merits for series besides just sales, but also, I don't really consider Banjo-Kazooie typical third party characters, they're ex-Nintendo characters, and that's the context under which I want them to be in the game. I've also said I'm not a big fan of adding third parties willy nilly, but Banjo is a very special, unique case.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

New fighters coming soon October 16th in one Direct to reveal everything

Bandana Dee ( Kirby )
Incineroar ( Pokemon )
Skull Kid ( Legend of Zelda )
Elma ( Xenoblade )
Isaac ( Golden Sun )
Geno ( Mario RPG )
Shadow The Hedgehog ( Sonic )
Banjo Kazooie ( Banjo Kazooie )
Sora ( Kingdom Hearts )
Saki ( Sin and Punishment )
Klaus ( Earthbound )

Echos:

Medusa ( echo to Palutena )
Ken ( echo to Ryu )
Dixie ( echo to Diddy )
Black Shadow ( echo to Captain Falcon )
Black Knight ( echo to Ike )

^ This seems very likely to happen, probably the best "guesses" I have seen so far, especially because this one actually remembered to include Medusa, any leak that doesnt include her should be disregarded.

I could see Sora and Banjo as dlc
Saki seems more likely to be a assist trophy
Klaus and Shadow seem more likely to be echos

Other than that, its perfect and tbh I am kind of hoping this one is true.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Oh man how much I wish that leak could be true as unlikely as it is...That there would make this the Ultimate game.

Just give me Banjo, Black Shadow and Medusa. That's all I ask. Everyone else would just be icing on cake.

 

[StormC]

Some people are going to be blindsided by the very likely outcome of only a couple unique fighters remaining.

Especially if one of them is, god forbid, a Pokemon.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Especially if one of them is, god forbid, a Pokemon.

Apparently that and a retro rep had always been a trend since Melee.

Melee: Mewtwo, Pichu, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch
Brawl: Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, Pit (Uprising wasn't released by then), R.O.B.
Sm4sh: Greninja, Duck Hunt, Little Mac

 

[cybersai]

We probably only have 3 newcomers at the most coming, and maybe 3 echoes.

People expecting 5-6+ new characters are coming are really setting themselves up for disappointment. Then will come the inevitable backlash with people getting disappointed or angry their characters didn't get in, because you guys expected way too much. We have only 2 months for possible reveals left, I doubt there will be more than 2 newcomers in each trailer at most.

The Smash fanbase always overhypes itself, ever since Brawl I've seen people complaining about the roster.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I think at some point they will reveal that Miis still have costumes, and they will announce several most wanted characters who didn't make it in the game as Mii costume, similar to what happend with Smash 4's DLC.

Also, we know nothing about the other modes, and stuff like collectables, stage editor, etc. so they will most likely move the focus on that stuff.
They will probably reveal all the characters very soon, since they need to send the copies of the game at stores and it would be way easier to spread leaks once the game has been sent everywhere, especially if all the characters are drawn on the box for real.
IMO we have less than 2 months before we know everything about the main roster, maybe 1 month before the actual release we will know everything already, officially or not.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Oh man how much I wish that leak could be true as unlikely as it is...That there would make this the Ultimate game.

Just give me Banjo, Black Shadow and Medusa. That's all I ask. Everyone else would just be icing on cake.

Tbh I just want Medusa in, if I had to pick one more character... It would be her.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Tbh I just want Medusa in, if I had to pick one more character... It would be her.

She along with those two are my three most current wants.

I also just want to ship her with too. It's a crack shipping I support.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I think at some point they will reveal that Miis still have costumes, and they will announce several most wanted characters who didn't make it in the game as Mii costume, similar to what happend with Smash 4's DLC.

Also, we know nothing about the other modes, and stuff like collectables, stage editor, etc. so they will most likely move the focus on that stuff.
They will probably reveal all the characters very soon, since they need to send the copies of the game at stores and it would be way easier to spread leaks once the game has been sent everywhere, especially if all the characters are drawn on the box for real.
IMO we have less than 2 months before we know everything about the main roster, maybe 1 month before the actual release we will know everything already, officially or not.

This time they need to have female outfits like skirts for female miis.

She along with those two are my three most current wants.

I also just want to ship her with too. It's a crack shipping I support.

King K Rool so far is my favorite newcomer.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

King K Rool so far is my favorite newcomer.

Same but you probably already know that for obvious reasons like my avatar and Ultimate main.

 

[StormC]

Apparently that and a retro rep had always been a trend since Melee.

Melee: Mewtwo, Pichu, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch
Brawl: Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, Pit (Uprising wasn't released by then), R.O.B.
Sm4sh: Greninja, Duck Hunt, Little Mac

I don't think we'll get a retro character this time simply because there isn't really a viable candidate. Takamaru was the most obvious one, but I doubt Sakurai will pick someone that doesn't make sense to him because "gotta have a retro rep."

All sorts of "rules" and patterns have been broken with this Smash, but I do think a Pokemon newcomer is pretty much inevitable. The series is too big to not have one.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I don't think we'll get a retro character this time simply because there isn't really a viable candidate. Takamaru was the most obvious one, but I doubt Sakurai will pick someone that doesn't make sense to him because "gotta have a retro rep."

All sorts of "rules" and patterns have been broken with this Smash, but I do think a Pokemon newcomer is pretty much inevitable. The series is too big to not have one.

There's Mach Rider, Ayumi Tachibana and Sable Prince. They seem like decent candidates.

 

[RileyXY1]

There's Mach Rider, Ayumi Tachibana and Sable Prince. They seem like decent candidates.

Sable Prince is one of many unseen ATs. If Sakurai can bring back the Ditto Poke Ball Pokemon, I wouldn't be surprised if he put Ayumi in.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sable Prince is one of many unseen ATs. If Sakurai can bring back the Ditto Poke Ball Pokemon, I wouldn't be surprised if he put Ayumi in.

Ayumi was also considered for Melee.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Same but you probably already know that for obvious reasons like my avatar and Ultimate main.

For the record, I dont necessarily main Pokemon Trainer.. I just really like Team Flare. lol

My mains will likely be and add Medusa to that list.. Maybe even Isaac if hes in.

 

[StormC]

There's Mach Rider, Ayumi Tachibana and Sable Prince. They seem like decent candidates.

Mach Rider has been seemingly deconfirmed because his music was listed in the Smash Direct without a franchise icon, but I don't think Sakurai would consider him anyway. Both Ayumi and Sable are from Japanese-only games, and Sable is from a post-NES game, which is generally not what Sakurai considers for a "retro" character.

Here's the thing, previous retro characters are not just random old games that Sakurai picks out of a hat. They are usually important to Nintendo's history in some way. Even Ice Climber was picked to have a game from the launch lineup for the NES, and because Sakurai wanted a two-player dynamic. Games like Mach Rider would be completely forgotten about without Smash mentioning them.

Honestly, the most likely candidate would probably be Balloon Fighter, but he might not be happening with Villager still using Balloon Trip.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Mach Rider has been seemingly deconfirmed because his music was listed in the Smash Direct without a franchise icon, but I don't think Sakurai would consider him anyway. Both Ayumi and Sable are from Japanese-only games, and Sable is from a post-NES game, which is generally not what Sakurai considers for a "retro" character.

Here's the thing, previous retro characters are not just random old games that Sakurai picks out of a hat. They are usually important to Nintendo's history in some way. Even Ice Climber was a launch title for the NES. Games like Mach Rider would be completely forgotten about without Smash mentioning them.

Honestly, the most likely candidate would probably be Balloon Fighter, but he might not be happening with Villager still using Balloon Trip.

In that case seems like the trend for retro reps has been broken.

 

[Flyboy]

I'm praying for Ayumi. I don't think it'll happen, but as a fan of her games and with serious doubts Phoenix Wright will ever be in Smash, I need someone to represent my beloved detective visual novels! Plus, I just really want to see what moveset Sakurai would come up with for her.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Mach Rider has been seemingly deconfirmed because his music was listed in the Smash Direct without a franchise icon, but I don't think Sakurai would consider him anyway. Both Ayumi and Sable are from Japanese-only games, and Sable is from a post-NES game, which is generally not what Sakurai considers for a "retro" character.

Here's the thing, previous retro characters are not just random old games that Sakurai picks out of a hat. They are usually important to Nintendo's history in some way. Even Ice Climber was picked to have a game from the launch lineup for the NES, and because Sakurai wanted a two-player dynamic. Games like Mach Rider would be completely forgotten about without Smash mentioning them.

Honestly, the most likely candidate would probably be Balloon Fighter, but he might not be happening with Villager still using Balloon Trip.

Sakurai considered Mach Rider for Melee, and picked Ice Climber only because that was the game he could come up with a moveset for. That means he regards them as equally important for a retro. Ayumi likewise was considered, so by Sakurai’s own standards they qualify.

Mach Rider not having a franchise icon for music means nothing, as it was specifically stated that series with multiple games were eligible for their own music category (for example, Duck Hunt didn’t have one either)

 

[cybersai]

There is no retro fighter this time, Simon is good enough to count as one anyway

 

[Michael the Spikester]

There is no retro fighter this time, Simon is good enough to count as one anyway

Well Pac-Man and Mega Man by that logic should count as retros too then if you want to get down to it.

 

[StormC]

Sakurai considered Mach Rider for Melee, and picked Ice Climber only because that was the game he could come up with a moveset for. That means he regards them as equally important for a retro. Ayumi likewise was considered, so by Sakurai’s own standards they qualify.

Mach Rider not having a franchise icon for music means nothing, as it was specifically stated that series with multiple games were eligible for their own music category (for example, Duck Hunt didn’t have one either)

The fact that Ayumi was passed over in Melee is sort of key. I mean, if he didn’t bring Takamaru over because of lack of familiarity in the West, then Ayumi has next to no chance.

There’s never been a Japanese exclusive character since Melee (Lucas was probably added assuming Mother 3 would be localized).

Saying Mach Rider was considered is also a bit of a stretch. Sakurai’s comment on him is basically a joke. https://sourcegaming.info/2016/04/29/duflupdate/

 

[Iko MattOrr]

What if the rumored square character is Qbby?

Well, I mean...
ok I give up.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I think at some point they will reveal that Miis still have costumes, and they will announce several most wanted characters who didn't make it in the game as Mii costume, similar to what happend with Smash 4's DLC.

Also, we know nothing about the other modes, and stuff like collectables, stage editor, etc. so they will most likely move the focus on that stuff.
They will probably reveal all the characters very soon, since they need to send the copies of the game at stores and it would be way easier to spread leaks once the game has been sent everywhere, especially if all the characters are drawn on the box for real.
IMO we have less than 2 months before we know everything about the main roster, maybe 1 month before the actual release we will know everything already, officially or not.

Oh god no. **** off with the Mii Costume stuff. It’s a more painful acknowledgment of a character than assist trophy. At least the assist trophy can actually look like the character, the Mii Costumes are just abominations to look at and in no way encompass the character they’re representing. Plus I don’t particularly enjoy the move sets of the Mii fighters anyway...

I just don’t like the Mii fighters to be perfectly honest, mostly for how much goes into them, but I’ve ranted about that plenty.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Mach Rider has been seemingly deconfirmed because his music was listed in the Smash Direct without a franchise icon, but I don't think Sakurai would consider him anyway. Both Ayumi and Sable are from Japanese-only games, and Sable is from a post-NES game, which is generally not what Sakurai considers for a "retro" character.

Here's the thing, previous retro characters are not just random old games that Sakurai picks out of a hat. They are usually important to Nintendo's history in some way. Even Ice Climber was picked to have a game from the launch lineup for the NES, and because Sakurai wanted a two-player dynamic. Games like Mach Rider would be completely forgotten about without Smash mentioning them.

Honestly, the most likely candidate would probably be Balloon Fighter, but he might not be happening with Villager still using Balloon Trip.

Mach Rider's music has been in the Smash games since Melee, so I don't think it completely deconfirms him.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Oh god no. **** off with the Mii Costume stuff. It’s a more painful acknowledgment of a character than assist trophy. At least the assist trophy can actually look like the character, the Mii Costumes are just abominations to look at and in no way encompass the character they’re representing. Plus I don’t particularly enjoy the move sets of the Mii fighters anyway...

I just don’t like the Mii fighters to be perfectly honest, mostly for how much goes into them, but I’ve ranted about that plenty.

I agree with you, I don't want it to happen, but for some reason I think it will happen, sadly... I can't see them wasting the costumes they already have ready from Smash 4, along with them not doing some new ones created just to say "sorry" to the fanbases of some characters who didn't make it.

 

[Jetsurge]

Some people are going to be blindsided by the very likely outcome of only a couple unique fighters remaining.

Especially if one of them is, god forbid, a Pokemon.

One of them is definitely a Pokemon likely Incineroar

 

[Gemini-Gene]

Mach Rider's music has been in the Smash games since Melee, so I don't think it completely deconfirms him.

I also would like to add to your post about Mach Rider's chances.

Spoiler

Sakurai went out of his way to make a complete costume and motorcycle redesign of Mach Rider, just to have him as a trophy in Melee? Likely case scenario is Sakurai may have been too literal with coming up ideas & a play style for a character that's always driving from his game and settled with his new model as a trophy due to Melee's short development, and even though Mach Rider's game eventually led to the creation of F-Zero, the lesser known Mach Rider possibly being a last minute clone wasn't going to take priority over a LoZ antagonist from a big N64 game like Ganondorf as the Falcon clone.

As far as the later Smash games Sakurai probably just had other plans for retro characters for the roster and Mach Rider just never came to fruition. At least his theme still appears in Smash and he had that one sticker on Brawl based on his Melee redesign.

Also I know there's speculation about that picture with the robot toy Sakurai showed and was using it's gun as a reference for a new project he's working on (at the time posted this project would likely be the unrevealed Smash Ultimate). The toy models gun looks very similar to Mach Rider's gun from his retro design so there's the chance that Mach Rider might be getting his chance now for Smash. From what Sakurai has revealed so far in Ultimate he's gone back to a few scrapped and dissmissed ideas for content and added it to this game (Ridley's size no longer a problem as a newcomer, Ditto officially implemented as a Pokeball Pokemon, Villager can't fight but now we have 2 AC characters). This may be reaching but all of this considered should show that Mach Rider isn't as unlikely as people suggest.