Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[zferolie]

Why people got to hate on Steve. He’d be the most interesting newcomer in Smash Ultimate if he was included. Don’t let the fan base take away from the fact that MC is a great game and worthy of being up with the video game legends such as Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, etc. Honestly, Steve has unironically become one of my most wanted characters up there with Bandana Dee and Rayman, I would take him over Shantae, Banjo or Lloyd any day.

Minecraft deserves some rep, as a stage, as the game is all about the world, not the character.

Also, what would steve bring that Villager hasn't? crafting and digging.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Minecraft deserves some rep, as a stage, as the game is all about the world, not the character.

Also, what would steve bring that Villager hasn't? crafting and digging.

He brings goofy animations that would be hilarious to watch

technically he also has more to pull from than Villager.

 

[SmashChu]

There is no time to reveal more than 3 unique newcomers from here to December. 1 in October, 2 in November. They definitely aren't adding another 6 unique newcomers, 4 is the ceiling.

Not true

October can easily have one character, either through an update to the site (a la Robin's trailer) or as part of another direct. Someone mentioned the possibility of a Pokemon Direct. Its possible since Pokemon is about the series rather than individual games. Could easily have one before Lets Go. November will likely have a presentation for Smash as there is enough we don't know about (Vault, Online, Spirits). This could have two characters. Then do the final character the last week of November. For reference, Shulk was shown about 2 and a half weeks for Smash 4 came out. Olimar was about 3 weeks before Brawl's release (which was delayed a second time). So there is plenty of time for 4 characters.

 

[zferolie]

He brings goofy animations that would be hilarious to watch

technically he also has more to pull from than Villager.

I don't know why steve angers me so lol. something just triggers about him. And what about his alts? male and female steves?

I will say this, at least the box theory is looking pretty dead, as I was expecting. Steve at least helps with that. Plus it again doesn't mean thats all the characters. I'm sure there are more then those rumored 3 uniques (steve, incieroar, and Geno) I still am hoping for shantae(I won't remove her till fully decomfirmed lol) plus others like a retro, isaac, lloyd, and rayman seem still to be high in the chances

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't know why steve angers me so lol. something just triggers about him. And what about his alts? male and female steves?

I will say this, at least the box theory is looking pretty dead, as I was expecting. Steve at least helps with that. Plus it again doesn't mean thats all the characters. I'm sure there are more then those rumored 3 uniques (steve, incieroar, and Geno) I still am hoping for shantae(I won't remove her till fully decomfirmed lol) plus others like a retro, isaac, lloyd, and rayman seem still to be high in the chances

Yeah, I really don't like Box Theory, either.

A lot of newcomers isn't realistic, sure, but this theory is too pessimistic, and just kills the hype, which helps keep our characters' support going for DLC if they don't get in base, and keeps it going for the next game. It's more likely there's more than 2 characters left as well, at least 3-5.

As for Steve's skins, Steve could have Alex, who is basically marketed as the female skin. maybe Herobrine too if they're willing to bring up that old myth/sorta-creepypasta that Mojang turned into an inside joke.

 

[Captain Shades]

Minecraft deserves some rep, as a stage, as the game is all about the world, not the character.

Also, what would steve bring that Villager hasn't? crafting and digging.

This is so wrong. Minecraft is about building! What do you do in Minecraft, you build, Steve by extension is the vessel for the player’s creativity.

Steve would be unique in the fact that he’d be the first World-building character, he can have so much potential, but people just scaff at the idea as if he’s just some boring character. Allow Steve to build structures, he can set up traps, build potential life savers, or create barriers to protect himself. His neutral B should be him placing blocks, which you have a limited supply of, to build whatever structure you see fit. If you hold down the B button then you will get a selection of multiple things to use in your crafting experience. Want to use your side B effectively, then you need to place down track for your cart to go faster, build a steep hill with track and watch the cart barrel over the competition in seconds. Wait, Steve seems pretty weak, well you better build a wall structure as your down B, the crafting table takes some time. In a similar fashion to Cloud’s limit break, though without the charging while not holding down B, Steve is able to craft multiple armors and swords to use, the longer the player holds, the better the armor will be as it hits harder and protects better. If you get armor then your neutral attacks that were just punches now have a sword for more area and higher damage. Steve’s up B will just be him flying like in Creative mode.

As for the block idea, Steve has a plethora of tools at his disposal. The first being the dirt block, which has the highest amount in Steve’s inventory. The blocks can be walked on, but break super easily, after 3 attacks. He also has stone blocks which are the same as dirt, but come in lower quantities and take around 5-6 hits. The next thing is the track, which can be placed on both blocks and the stage and is just used for the minecart. The fourth would be TNT, 3 can be placed at a time and they will explode very quickly so watch out, and make sure your blocks aren’t near as that’s an automatic break. The final buildable is the Enchantment table, which spits out various potions for Steve and opponents to use, some light opponents on fire, and some do simple things like increase speed or heal. (The table is the only non-breakable object and you only get one at a time) Steve will regain blocks that are destroyed. The way blocks are placed is similar to MC, just tilt the joystick while placing and Steve will put them in the direction his head is facing.

As for the armor, Steve will have three tiers with leather, gold, and finally diamond. All will break, but the further down you go the longer it takes, and the more damage you’ll be dealing, along with being more protected. Swords will also become available in neutral once armor has been crafted.

Steve’s echo will be Alex as she is literally the female Steve.

The Final Smash will be the Ender Portal as Steve sends opponents into the Ender where the dragon takes them out.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

I don't know why steve angers me so lol. something just triggers about him. And what about his alts? male and female steves?

I will say this, at least the box theory is looking pretty dead, as I was expecting. Steve at least helps with that. Plus it again doesn't mean thats all the characters. I'm sure there are more then those rumored 3 uniques (steve, incieroar, and Geno) I still am hoping for shantae(I won't remove her till fully decomfirmed lol) plus others like a retro, isaac, lloyd, and rayman seem still to be high in the chances

Three reddit comments that summarized my issues with Steve fairly well:

In a game all about characters with wacky personalities to interact with, Steve is prominent for not really having anything to work with. His face is a mass of unfeeling pixels, making him very unpersonable. He doesn’t feel human, and not even in the same way that Duck Hunt Dog And co are.

His design is also incredibly boring, because it is meant to act as a player stand in. The mass of pixels would look very out of place

Please no. I’m fine with Minecraft as a game it’s iconic and it’s important enough to get some kinda representation but a character? I don’t think that’s the best way to rep it honestly. Steve is a personality-less avatar character that barely even counts as a character due to how lifeless and boring he is.

Adding him would push sales I will give him that but He’s lifeless, the way he moves would look super weird in Smash, there are better Microsoft reps to choose from (Master Chief and Banjo). Ugh I really don’t want Steve in Smash sure he would be a wacky out there character but still he’s barely a character.

I think the issue is that Steve has almost no personality. Like, would he be voiced? If so, what things would he say? He's a self insert character for a game with pretty much no plot. The bright side though is that there's no way that blocky, stiff model of his will cost anything to animate, so resource-wise I'd say he'd be about as expensive to include as an echo fighter, maybe even less.

 

[FunAtParties]

Why people got to hate on Steve. He’d be the most interesting newcomer in Smash Ultimate if he was included. Don’t let the fan base take away from the fact that MC is a great game and worthy of being up with the video game legends such as Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, etc. Honestly, Steve has unironically become one of my most wanted characters up there with Bandana Dee and Rayman, I would take him over Shantae, Banjo or Lloyd any day.

Lmao what does Minecraft being legendary have to do with Steve? No one plays Minecraft for the character. Even so, why does every legendary franchise need to be in Smash? We want Trevor from GTA now, because that's one of the most influential series? How about a CoD character? Madden? No, because not everyone has to be in Smash.

 

[zferolie]

This is so wrong. Minecraft is about building! What do you do in Minecraft, you build, Steve by extension is the vessel for the player’s creativity.

Steve would be unique in the fact that he’d be the first World-building character, he can have so much potential, but people just scaff at the idea as if he’s just some boring character. Allow Steve to build structures, he can set up traps, build potential life savers, or create barriers to protect himself. His neutral B should be him placing blocks, which you have a limited supply of, to build whatever structure you see fit. If you hold down the B button then you will get a selection of multiple things to use in your crafting experience. Want to use your side B effectively, then you need to place down track for your cart to go faster, build a steep hill with track and watch the cart barrel over the competition in seconds. Wait, Steve seems pretty weak, well you better build a wall structure as your down B, the crafting table takes some time. In a similar fashion to Cloud’s limit break, though without the charging while not holding down B, Steve is able to craft multiple armors and swords to use, the longer the player holds, the better the armor will be as it hits harder and protects better. If you get armor then your neutral attacks that were just punches now have a sword for more area and higher damage. Steve’s up B will just be him flying like in Creative mode.

As for the block idea, Steve has a plethora of tools at his disposal. The first being the dirt block, which has the highest amount in Steve’s inventory. The blocks can be walked on, but break super easily, after 3 attacks. He also has stone blocks which are the same as dirt, but come in lower quantities and take around 5-6 hits. The next thing is the track, which can be placed on both blocks and the stage and is just used for the minecart. The fourth would be TNT, 3 can be placed at a time and they will explode very quickly so watch out, and make sure your blocks aren’t near as that’s an automatic break. The final buildable is the Enchantment table, which spits out various potions for Steve and opponents to use, some light opponents on fire, and some do simple things like increase speed or heal. (The table is the only non-breakable object and you only get one at a time) Steve will regain blocks that are destroyed. The way blocks are placed is similar to MC, just tilt the joystick while placing and Steve will put them in the direction his head is facing.

As for the armor, Steve will have three tiers with leather, gold, and finally diamond. All will break, but the further down you go the longer it takes, and the more damage you’ll be dealing, along with being more protected. Swords will also become available in neutral once armor has been crafted.

Steve’s echo will be Alex as she is literally the female Steve.

The Final Smash will be the Ender Portal as Steve sends opponents into the Ender where the dragon takes them out.

Ok, so his main specials will be about building and crafting what you are describing could work but also sounds very complicated, with the needing to build rails for your side B to work well. I can mostly see maybe what a guy posted in the steve thread, a monado like B where you craft an item of your choosing to power up some aspect of you kit.

And why would his female version be an echo, where every past gender flip is just an alt?

The main issue steve has is what DOTnet says: He has no personality. Ever Game and Watch in his original games had a bit of a personality. You could argue that ROB and Villager had none, as the first was a toy and the later was a player stand in, but even then ROB's personality is that he is a robot, and village has a ton of emotes in his game. Steve doesn't its the same face at all times regardless of whats happening. Sakurai would have to change how steve is to show emotions and reactions to attacking or being attacked.

Minecraft is a historic and grandbreaking series, but steve isn't Sakurai would have to work hard to get him to be interesting, not in the fighting style but how he interacts with the cast and the surroundings.

 

[FunAtParties]

I truly don't get the point of going through Microsoft, and not getting the largely requested Banjo Kazooie, or the gaming icon Master Chief. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The issue with Steve? is that making him interact is admittedly a bit harder than it looks like to some. That'll require some effort. I don't think it'd be a real issue, though.

That said, the character is a gaming icon just as much as his game is. At first, people didn't really care who he was because he had no name. The fans adopted a name. Then it became his official name, including on his crapload of merchandise. People know who Steve?(which is only done with a question mark as a meta joke to his name origin) and Minecraft are. They're both highly recognizable. He's also an extremely popular character too. He does cause some controversy, of course. This might be why he's better as base than DLC. DLC should be for those who Sakurai thinks will easily sell. Banjo & Kazooie might work better for that. Though Steve? could work for that fine too.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I truly don't get the point of going through Microsoft, and not getting the largely requested Banjo Kazooie, or the gaming icon Master Chief. It just doesn't make sense.

Especially since Ultimate is all about the fan service. Sakurai is very well aware of how requested Banjo-Kazooie is. If were gonna get anyone from Microsoft it will surely be them.

Worst case scenario Steve gets into base roster but otherwise Banjo-Kazooie are DLC.

Also as others pointed out Steve would be hard to animate for obvious reasons which is even why I don't think he will be getting in.

 

[FunAtParties]

The issue with Steve? is that making him interact is admittedly a bit harder than it looks like to some. That'll require some effort. I don't think it'd be a real issue, though.

That said, the character is a gaming icon just as much as his game is. At first, people didn't really care who he was because he had no name. The fans adopted a name. Then it became his official name, including on his crapload of merchandise. People know who Steve?(which is only done with a question mark as a meta joke to his name origin) and Minecraft are. They're both highly recognizable. He's also an extremely popular character too. He does cause some controversy, of course. This might be why he's better as base than DLC. DLC should be for those who Sakurai thinks will easily sell. Banjo & Kazooie might work better for that. Though Steve? could work for that fine too.

He himself is nowhere near the level of Minecraft itself, cut that out.

 

[Captain Shades]

I’m going to go over your points blueneuronDOTnet

1) Steve is lifeless - I’ll agree, but honestly, what does that take away. Pac-Man is lifeless in his games, same with Mega Man. I’d even say Banjo isn’t exactly the most personality filled character, maybe Kazooie is, but Banjo always seemed like a boring character who’s world is the reason he’s loved. It always seemed to be the side characters that added personality to Banjo not the character himself. Adding to what I said earlier, what separates Mega Man from Steve as Mega Man is usually a straight faced hero, or Pac-Man who never seems to have a personality.

Plus this argument leaves out the fact that Story mode exists, which actually gave the MC characters personality and objectives to work for.

2) Boring design - I like how everyone says he’ll move awkwardly, then perceives to call him boring, saying that the one aspect that actually makes him unique is apparently wrong. Steve would also be a blocky character making him look completely unique from the rest, yet that’s also wrong I guess. The issue doesn’t seem to be that the design is boring as he’d be a pretty stand out character, it just seems like you guys don’t like it. Again, going back to Pac-Man, he is literally just a circle, and Cloud is like the millionth anime character to be in Smash.

3) He’d look weird in Smash - Other than his movements making him look unique, we need to stop using this argument. How many times have strange characters that would look weird gotten into Smash. Mr. Game & Watch literally lacks animations like Steve, yet looks absolutely fine. Snake is a realistic army looking dude in a world of cotton candy, but doesn’t stand out. Why does this argument keep getting brought up.

4) Minecraft would be better represented with a stage - No, just no. Minecraft is about building and creating your own world with what feels like limitless tools. A character would bring in the creativity side of Minecraft better than any stage as creativity and the ability to build the world you want is what has kept Minecraft relevant for almost a decade now. A character would allow players to build structures just like in the game as that is what MC is fundamentally about. I already posted a move set, but the reason Steve seems boring is because you guys are lacking the creativity and understanding of what Minecraft is to make him interesting. You want to make him another Villager, not a representative for the vast genre that is now builders, and that’s what the problem is.

Ok, so his main specials will be about building and crafting what you are describing could work but also sounds very complicated, with the needing to build rails for your side B to work well. I can mostly see maybe what a guy posted in the steve thread, a monado like B where you craft an item of your choosing to power up some aspect of you kit.

That wouldn’t be Steve though, the point of Minecraft is building, so a neutral B focused around being able to build like in Minecraft makes the most sense. Sakurai tries to stay true to character, so having Steve use blocks that he can place down would be easy. To give an example, lets say Steve placed one block on the ground, if he’s farther away he can place a block to the side of it, if he’s right next to it, then he’ll place a block on top. Now let’s say he has three blocks high, if you point the joystick in the upward direction while placing a block, then he’ll place it to the side of the top block, look down it’ll go to the side of the bottom block if he is the appropriate distance away, and looking straight will place it at the side of the middle block. It’s actually a pretty basic system that just sounds complicated.

Also Alex is an echo because another could have obviously been a costume 3rd party character named Richter happened.

He himself is nowhere near the level of Minecraft itself, cut that out.

Yes he is, there are countless items and merchandise with him plastered onto it, and many cosplay as the character. He’s an icon.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Steve does though at the chance get in. I would expect an Assist Trophy (Him or Creeper maybe both even) at most. VergeBen's sources says there will be some form of representation which could either be that or a stage.

 

[FunAtParties]

I’m going to go over your points blueneuronDOTnet

1) Steve is lifeless - I’ll agree, but honestly, what does that take away. Pac-Man is lifeless in his games, same with Mega Man. I’d even say Banjo isn’t exactly the most personality filled character, maybe Kazooie is, but Banjo always seemed like a boring character who’s world is the reason he’s loved. It always seemed to be the side characters that added personality to Banjo not the character himself. Adding to what I said earlier, what separates Mega Man from Steve as Mega Man is usually a straight faced hero, or Pac-Man who never seems to have a personality.

Plus this argument leaves out the fact that Story mode exists, which actually gave the MC characters personality and objectives to work for.

2) Boring design - I like how everyone says he’ll move awkwardly, then perceives to call him boring, saying that the one aspect that actually makes him unique is apparently wrong. Steve would also be a blocky character making him look completely unique from the rest, yet that’s also wrong I guess. The issue doesn’t seem to be that the design is boring as he’d be a pretty stand out character, it just seems like you guys don’t like it. Again, going back to Pac-Man, he is literally just a circle, and Cloud is like the millionth anime character to be in Smash.

3) He’d look weird in Smash - Other than his movements making him look unique, we need to stop using this argument. How many times have strange characters that would look weird gotten into Smash. Mr. Game & Watch literally lacks animations like Steve, yet looks absolutely fine. Snake is a realistic army looking dude in a world of cotton candy, but doesn’t stand out. Why does this argument keep getting brought up.

4) Minecraft would be better represented with a stage - No, just no. Minecraft is about building and creating your own world with what feels like limitless tools. A character would bring in the creativity side of Minecraft better than any stage as creativity and the ability to build the world you want is what has kept Minecraft relevant for almost a decade now. A character would allow players to build structures just like in the game as that is what MC is fundamentally about. I already posted a move set, but the reason Steve seems boring is because you guys are lacking the creativity and understanding of what Minecraft is to make him interesting. You want to make him another Villager, not a representative for the vast genre that is now builders, and that’s what the problem is.


That wouldn’t be Steve though, the point of Minecraft is building, so a neutral B focused around being able to build like in Minecraft makes the most sense. Sakurai tries to stay true to character, so having Steve use blocks that he can place down would be easy. To give an example, lets say Steve placed one block on the ground, if he’s farther away he can place a block to the side of it, if he’s right next to it, then he’ll place a block on top. Now let’s say he has three blocks high, if you point the joystick in the upward direction while placing a block, then he’ll place it to the side of the top block, look down it’ll go to the side of the bottom block if he is the appropriate distance away, and looking straight will place it at the side of the middle block. It’s actually a pretty basic system that just sounds complicated.

Also Alex is an echo because another could have obviously been a costume 3rd party character named Richter happened.


Yes he is, there are countless items and merchandise with him plastered onto it, and many cosplay as the character. He’s an icon.

He's not. He's a generic character that people rarely even know the name of. Minecraft is an iconic series. Steve himself is a generic avatar. Just because they sell his merch doesn't make him iconic.

You don't just all the sudden become an icon because your game is unless you're meant to be the center of it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The issue with Steve? is that making him interact is admittedly a bit harder than it looks like to some. That'll require some effort. I don't think it'd be a real issue, though.

That said, the character is a gaming icon just as much as his game is. At first, people didn't really care who he was because he had no name. The fans adopted a name. Then it became his official name, including on his crapload of merchandise. People know who Steve?(which is only done with a question mark as a meta joke to his name origin) and Minecraft are. They're both highly recognizable. He's also an extremely popular character too. He does cause some controversy, of course. This might be why he's better as base than DLC. DLC should be for those who Sakurai thinks will easily sell. Banjo & Kazooie might work better for that. Though Steve? could work for that fine too.

I think Steve’s better as DLC, because at least that means I can choose not to have him in my game. Not to mention that while base roster slots are limited, DLC slots are not, and there are certain characters who don’t stand a chance for DLC.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He himself is nowhere near the level of Minecraft itself, cut that out.

So why does he have an extremely high amount of merchandise and recognizibility? Yes, yes he is. Let it go. He's a gaming icon and has been for a very long time.

This is exactly why Sakurai would be interested in him. He wants gaming icons too. He fits the bill entirely. B&K are pretty much a ballot thing, which give them a good chance. And yes, he'd easily pick Steve? over Master Chief due to one being far easier to fit into the settings but also would get a ton of sales too. Master Chief suffers from being a full-out Microsoft competing IP. This makes him way harder to secure. Same with trying to represent FPS' well, which isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world to do. Right now, Steve? and Banjo & Kazooie are the most feasible options, and for Microsoft, they'd want to make money on it too, which makes B&K perfect for DLC.

He's not. He's a generic character that people rarely even know the name of. Minecraft is an iconic series. Steve himself is a generic avatar. Just because they sell his merch doesn't make him iconic.

Please, people know his name. He's a huge gaming icon and has had the name for ages. It's literally on his merchandise because it's the official name. It doesn't matter that he started somewhat generic. So did Link. And look where he is now. He had nothing special about him nor a personality to begin with. He didn't even have his own voice till the sequel.

At some point, it's better to just accept an icon for who they are.

I think Steve’s better as DLC, because at least that means I can choose not to have him in my game. Not to mention that while base roster slots are limited, DLC slots are not, and there are certain characters who don’t stand a chance for DLC.

He won't sell enough for Microsoft to go for that. He only makes sense as base. DLC is for fanservice characters generally or those who couldn't make the base roster. Microsoft makes money off of Minecraft already. They have zero good reason to make him DLC as an option. It's more logical to do so for a character they don't otherwise make money off of right now(B&K). Plus, B&K are guaranteed DLC sellers, which makes the choice far more obvious.

Also, Sakurai doesn't really care about that. If a character is in the game, he adds them because he believes people will want to play as them. Even the surprise choices. That reasoning doesn't make any sense. Why would he agree to DLC that wouldn't sell? That is illogical.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So why does he have an extremely high amount of merchandise and recognizibility? Yes, yes he is. Let it go. He's a gaming icon and has been for a very long time.

This is exactly why Sakurai would be interested in him. He wants gaming icons too. He fits the bill entirely. B&K are pretty much a ballot thing, which give them a good chance. And yes, he'd easily pick Steve? over Master Chief due to one being far easier to fit into the settings but also would get a ton of sales too. Master Chief suffers from being a full-out Microsoft competing IP. This makes him way harder to secure. Same with trying to represent FPS' well, which isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world to do. Right now, Steve? and Banjo & Kazooie are the most feasible options, and for Microsoft, they'd want to make money on it too, which makes B&K perfect for DLC.


Please, people know his name. He's a huge gaming icon and has had the name for ages. It's literally on his merchandise because it's the official name. It doesn't matter that he started somewhat generic. So did Link. And look where he is now. He had nothing special about him nor a personality to begin with. He didn't even have his own voice till the sequel.

At some point, it's better to just accept an icon for who they are.


He won't sell enough for Microsoft to go for that. He only makes sense as base. DLC is for fanservice characters generally or those who couldn't make the base roster. Microsoft makes money off of Minecraft already. They have zero good reason to make him DLC as an option. It's more logical to do so for a character they don't otherwise make money off of right now(B&K). Plus, B&K are guaranteed DLC sellers, which makes the choice far more obvious.

Also, Sakurai doesn't really care about that. If a character is in the game, he adds them because he believes people will want to play as them. Even the surprise choices. That reasoning doesn't make any sense. Why would he agree to DLC that wouldn't sell? That is illogical.

Well, I said better, not that it would make more business sense.

Then again, I hope you’re right and he doesn’t get added as DLC either.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, I said better, not that it would make more business sense.

Then again, I hope you’re right and he doesn’t get added as DLC either.

Well, he's very likely to be base roster if anything. Pretty much has everything going for him right now. Gaming icon, would easily help sell the game to even more customers, fun moveset that is very feasible and fun to play as, etc. If he gets in, a big thing is to use the more updated graphics so he doesn't look so "dark". Basically, more him more colorful like on the cover. Otherwise he'd clash hard with the current version. His darker aesthetics fit in with Brawl, but that was a long time ago, heh.

Also, considering the extreme controversy, he makes perfect sense as the surprise character in general, as people will get over it pretty fast. This would make selling him as DLC a big issue. He's also fairly unexpected, much like Wii Fit Trainer. And despite some starting backlash, she's overall received well. The only character who wasn't received that well still is Corrin, and that's more due to circumstance than being a cool and fun to play as character that people didn't see coming(namely the only other Fire Emblem DLC while every series got one playable character, the fact it's a sixth FE character, advertisement for a game not out yet. These two got the fans riled up. Can't blame 'em entirely).

 

[FunAtParties]

So why does he have an extremely high amount of merchandise and recognizibility? Yes, yes he is. Let it go. He's a gaming icon and has been for a very long time.

This is exactly why Sakurai would be interested in him. He wants gaming icons too. He fits the bill entirely. B&K are pretty much a ballot thing, which give them a good chance. And yes, he'd easily pick Steve? over Master Chief due to one being far easier to fit into the settings but also would get a ton of sales too. Master Chief suffers from being a full-out Microsoft competing IP. This makes him way harder to secure. Same with trying to represent FPS' well, which isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world to do. Right now, Steve? and Banjo & Kazooie are the most feasible options, and for Microsoft, they'd want to make money on it too, which makes B&K perfect for DLC.


Please, people know his name. He's a huge gaming icon and has had the name for ages. It's literally on his merchandise because it's the official name. It doesn't matter that he started somewhat generic. So did Link. And look where he is now. He had nothing special about him nor a personality to begin with. He didn't even have his own voice till the sequel.

At some point, it's better to just accept an icon for who they are.


He won't sell enough for Microsoft to go for that. He only makes sense as base. DLC is for fanservice characters generally or those who couldn't make the base roster. Microsoft makes money off of Minecraft already. They have zero good reason to make him DLC as an option. It's more logical to do so for a character they don't otherwise make money off of right now(B&K). Plus, B&K are guaranteed DLC sellers, which makes the choice far more obvious.

Also, Sakurai doesn't really care about that. If a character is in the game, he adds them because he believes people will want to play as them. Even the surprise choices. That reasoning doesn't make any sense. Why would he agree to DLC that wouldn't sell? That is illogical.

I'm done having this discussion. Y'all here tend to associate series reputation with the characters in it to often.

People know his name? Where? Here? So what, people here clamor for every damn opportunity to add anyone from a big name franchise to Smash. Of course they'll learn his name. The minute Minecraft landed on a Nintenfo platform people were learning it. Outside of this circle and Minecraft circles, he's just the Minecraft dude and you know it. By no means an icon. Y'all undervalue the term too much.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm done having this discussion. Y'all here tend to associate series reputation with the characters in it to often.

People know his name? Where? Here? So what, people here clamor for every damn opportunity to add anyone from a big name franchise to Smash. Of course they'll learn his name. The minute Minecraft landed on a Nintenfo platform people were learning it. Outside of this circle and Minecraft circles, he's just the Minecraft dude and you know it. By no means an icon. Y'all undervalue the term too much.

People knew it wayyyyyyyy before the Nintendo appearances, man.

It didn't take long to know it when it's on the merchandise that they see in tons of places. It takes almost no time to look at the name, see the face, and realize "Oh, I know this guy!"

It's almost as long as it took for people to know Link's name isn't Zelda. Which some actually believed it was.

Honestly, there's no point in dismissing his heavy credentials as a gaming icon. It's just being silly for the sake of it. He's a gaming icon. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Nobody is asking you to like the character or like the idea in Smash. Just to accept he's a possibility and move on. You have every right to be against him as much as you want. It's just silly to pretend he's some unknown when that's not remotely the case. Unknowns don't get that much merchandise and extreme recognizability.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well, he's very likely to be base roster if anything. Pretty much has everything going for him right now. Gaming icon, would easily help sell the game to even more customers, fun moveset that is very feasible and fun to play as, etc. If he gets in, a big thing is to use the more updated graphics so he doesn't look so "dark". Basically, more him more colorful like on the cover. Otherwise he'd clash hard with the current version. His darker aesthetics fit in with Brawl, but that was a long time ago, heh.

Also, considering the extreme controversy, he makes perfect sense as the surprise character in general, as people will get over it pretty fast. This would make selling him as DLC a big issue. He's also fairly unexpected, much like Wii Fit Trainer. And despite some starting backlash, she's overall received well. The only character who wasn't received that well still is Corrin, and that's more due to circumstance than being a cool and fun to play as character that people didn't see coming(namely the only other Fire Emblem DLC while every series got one playable character, the fact it's a sixth FE character, advertisement for a game not out yet. These two got the fans riled up. Can't blame 'em entirely).

Different strokes, I guess. I don’t think the controversy would die down that quickly, the odds of it dying down are better for DLC, as people can choose not to pay for him and nobody will see their character’s ‘spot’ as stolen.

Looking at the Corrin case, there’s also the factor that Corrin as a character and Fates as a game are both... let’s say ‘disliked’ by a large amount of people. The fact that Corrin is still so hated despite the fact that ‘Everyone is Back’ is telling. I don’t think the Steve situation would be that different, only amplified.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Different strokes, I guess. I don’t think the controversy would die down that quickly, the odds of it dying down are better for DLC, as people can choose not to pay for him and nobody will see their character’s ‘spot’ as stolen.

Looking at the Corrin case, there’s also the factor that Corrin as a character and Fates as a game are both... let’s say ‘disliked’ by a large amount of people. The fact that Corrin is still so hated despite the fact that ‘Everyone is Back’ is telling. I don’t think the Steve situation would be that different, only amplified.

That too about Fates. But it was at the time the DLC sold well. Mostly outside of Japan.

The thing is, if he wouldn't sell well as DLC, that's a good reason to avoid it and make him base. If you had two characters, the business decision is logically to have the one who would sell more as DLC. Microsoft is still a business, as is Nintendo.

...It'd still be better than B&K as just a costume. That did not look good in Minecraft style. D:

 

[GoodGrief741]

That too about Fates. But it was at the time the DLC sold well. Mostly outside of Japan.

The thing is, if he wouldn't sell well as DLC, that's a good reason to avoid it and make him base. If you had two characters, the business decision is logically to have the one who would sell more as DLC. Microsoft is still a business, as is Nintendo.

...It'd still be better than B&K as just a costume. That did not look good in Minecraft style. D:

Still, if he wouldn’t sell well as DLC, that’s a good indication that the fanbase at large won’t take well to the character, right? If they got enough market research to tell them that, they’ll probably wise up and not include him in base either.

Banjo & Kazooie did not translate well to Minecraft-style. The more cartoony characters usually don’t. (I like Minecraft Master Chief though. MCMC hehe)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Still, if he wouldn’t sell well as DLC, that’s a good indication that the fanbase at large won’t take well to the character, right? If they got enough market research to tell them that, they’ll probably wise up and not include him in base either.

Banjo & Kazooie did not translate well to Minecraft-style. The more cartoony characters usually don’t. (I like Minecraft Master Chief though. MCMC hehe)

Surprise characters aren't meant to be DLC, that's the thing. Sakurai knows that, so he knows them being base roster is smarter. DLC is its own thing. We both know Steve? is highly well selling merchandise-wise. It's just the in the context of Smash it might not be worth trying to make money off of that particular idea. Microsoft is making money off of him without worrying about DLC.

They don't have that option for Banjo & Kazooie. They're a dead franchise. They need to make money off of 'em to be worth putting 'em in. Sakurai may not even much care to put them in. On the other hand, only one person liked the idea, Phil Spencer. Of course, he also can't just okay the idea either. There's still a board of directors, etc. But there could be other things behind the scenes. Like why did Nintendo get the Halo Mash-Up Pack. Was it simply because they agreed to crossplay? Or was there more? There's a lot of stuff that could happen. Either way, base content Minecraft seems all but inevitable. I'm not sold on Steve? being a lock as playable or anything, but he still makes more sense as base because the rest of the game will sell it for everybody else. An extreme minority will avoid the game because of one playable character, so that's not a worry. The game will sell, etc. very well. Many will just use him as a punching bag if they bought the game already. So it's not really a big worry.

Think of it like this; DLC has to sell on its own. It's not that Steve? cannot sell at all, it's that the fanbase for him is not as notoriously loud as other fanbases, which means putting him as DLC is far more risky than base. Him being a gaming icon still means he's a good option. To be honest, the only real knock against Steve? is if Sakurai can make his moveset work well. That's... kind of it. All his other credentials are there. It's barely a blip on the radar for people who wouldn't want to play as him.

And yeah, what was up with that awful costume? I mean, arguably it wasn't as bad as the Nuts & Bolts design, but... still. -_-

 

[Captain Shades]

He's not. He's a generic character that people rarely even know the name of. Minecraft is an iconic series. Steve himself is a generic avatar. Just because they sell his merch doesn't make him iconic.

You don't just all the sudden become an icon because your game is unless you're meant to be the center of it.

Umm...Yes it does, why does his merch sell if the character isn’t iconic? He’s literally the face of the 4th highest selling game of all time. What, does he need his name in the title to be iconic, if so then Snake wouldn’t stand a chance, or Ryu, or Cloud.

Still, if he wouldn’t sell well as DLC, that’s a good indication that the fanbase at large won’t take well to the character, right? If they got enough market research to tell them that, they’ll probably wise up and not include him in base either.

Banjo & Kazooie did not translate well to Minecraft-style. The more cartoony characters usually don’t. (I like Minecraft Master Chief though. MCMC hehe)

You forget that casuals will buy the main game and probably skip out on DLC. Your average joe may see Steve on the cover and buy it due to his icon status as Minecraft is still really popular. Kids are also a target demographic and they would probably have no idea what DLC is, but will buy the base game because Minecraft.

I’ll I’m saying is that there is a larger fan base than the inner circles we have on these sites. I for one vividly remember the Steve requests of Miiverse back in 2013-2014 as MC was a king and casuals used Miiverse like crazy to request MC on Nintendo systems.

Different strokes, I guess. I don’t think the controversy would die down that quickly, the odds of it dying down are better for DLC, as people can choose not to pay for him and nobody will see their character’s ‘spot’ as stolen.

Looking at the Corrin case, there’s also the factor that Corrin as a character and Fates as a game are both... let’s say ‘disliked’ by a large amount of people. The fact that Corrin is still so hated despite the fact that ‘Everyone is Back’ is telling. I don’t think the Steve situation would be that different, only amplified.

Maybe the Smash fandom needs to stop being so easily offended by everything. We get like 6 FE characters, two of which were easy clones, and everyone freaks out because it’s not what I wanted. I play Smash for the different play styles and iconic characters, but I’ve basically been satisfied since Brawl (though the Dee would be cool). The Smash community will never be happy as even nice additions like Isabelle are met with crazy amounts of hostility, so why not just say F@#k it and try an original character. He’s satisfied your needs enough, lets just have fun now.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Surprise characters aren't meant to be DLC, that's the thing. Sakurai knows that, so he knows them being base roster is smarter. DLC is its own thing. We both know Steve? is highly well selling merchandise-wise. It's just the in the context of Smash it might not be worth trying to make money off of that particular idea. Microsoft is making money off of him without worrying about DLC.

They don't have that option for Banjo & Kazooie. They're a dead franchise. They need to make money off of 'em to be worth putting 'em in. Sakurai may not even much care to put them in. On the other hand, only one person liked the idea, Phil Spencer. Of course, he also can't just okay the idea either. There's still a board of directors, etc. But there could be other things behind the scenes. Like why did Nintendo get the Halo Mash-Up Pack. Was it simply because they agreed to crossplay? Or was there more? There's a lot of stuff that could happen. Either way, base content Minecraft seems all but inevitable. I'm not sold on Steve? being a lock as playable or anything, but he still makes more sense as base because the rest of the game will sell it for everybody else. An extreme minority will avoid the game because of one playable character, so that's not a worry. The game will sell, etc. very well. Many will just use him as a punching bag if they bought the game already. So it's not really a big worry.

Think of it like this; DLC has to sell on its own. It's not that Steve? cannot sell at all, it's that the fanbase for him is not as notoriously loud as other fanbases, which means putting him as DLC is far more risky than base. Him being a gaming icon still means he's a good option. To be honest, the only real knock against Steve? is if Sakurai can make his moveset work well. That's... kind of it. All his other credentials are there. It's barely a blip on the radar for people who wouldn't want to play as him.

And yeah, what was up with that awful costume? I mean, arguably it wasn't as bad as the Nuts & Bolts design, but... still. -_-

I agree with you that Banjo-Kazooie will probably be DLC, but I think Steve is still too risky a pick to make the game, be it base, DLC, or whatever.

Umm...Yes it does, why does his merch sell if the character isn’t iconic? He’s literally the face of the 4th highest selling game of all time. What, does he need his name in the title to be iconic, if so then Snake wouldn’t stand a chance, or Ryu, or Cloud.


You forget that casuals will buy the main game and probably skip out on DLC. Your average joe may see Steve on the cover and buy it due to his icon status as Minecraft is still really popular. Kids are also a target demographic and they would probably have no idea what DLC is, but will buy the base game because Minecraft.

I’ll I’m saying is that there is a larger fan base than the inner circles we have on these sites. I for one vividly remember the Steve requests of Miiverse back in 2013-2014 as MC was a king and casuals used Miiverse like crazy to request MC on Nintendo systems.


Maybe the Smash fandom needs to stop being so easily offended by everything. We get like 6 FE characters, two of which were easy clones, and everyone freaks out because it’s not what I wanted. I play Smash for the different play styles and iconic characters, but I’ve basically been satisfied since Brawl (though the Dee would be cool). The Smash community will never be happy as even nice additions like Isabelle are met with crazy amounts of hostility, so why not just say F@#k it and try an original character. He’s satisfied your needs enough, lets just have fun now.

Steve wouldn’t be on the cover though, we know the cover already. Unless you mean the back cover. I don’t know how things are worldwide, but in my personal experience kids that play Minecraft are not Switch owners (not to mention that by and large kids have moved on to Fortnite).

Everybody wants characters in for different reasons. It’s great that you’ve been satisfied since Brawl, but that’s no excuse to say **** the rest, they don’t deserve to get their characters too. Going crazy and having fun only works if people end up liking the fun and crazy, otherwise you’re just ****ting on your fanbase for no reason.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Steve wouldn't be risky if you ask me.

The people who talk crap about Minecraft are usually trolls or people who just jump on the hate bandwagon, with only some having true reasons for disliking the game. The ones who go around and spread dislike and hate are who I'm talkin' about.

Otherwise, that's a minority. The game is still loved by nearly everyone, and despite Fortnite's popularity, plenty of kids still play Minecraft. If Steve get's in, I can only see it working out for both Mojang and Nintendo. Also, if Vergeben's correct, we may not even get Steve as playable (he thinks it's possible, but he's not even sure what the content is, just that we're getting it), as we would get Minecraft stuff anyway, so they're already adding stuff and may as well add a character because it'll make no difference to them.

 

[Jetsurge]

Minecraft deserves some rep, as a stage, as the game is all about the world, not the character.

Also, what would steve bring that Villager hasn't? crafting and digging.

It's like MH. It's most well known for it's monsters not the Hunter. The same applies to Minecraft, it's most well known for it's world so it's best suited for a stage.

 

[Sid-cada]

Allow Steve to build structures, he can set up traps, build potential life savers, or create barriers to protect himself.

Can I just say that, from a game play standpoint, terraforming and building characters are an awful idea? Let me just repeat what I said about Isabel when a similar idea came from her:

Walls, as we know, are terrible to fight against competitive play, and if used exclusively as walls there is a very delicate balance to make it work. Too much health and the walls can promote too much keep away to the point that you don't interact much with the opponent, too weak and the setup probably won't be worth it. Even then, Smash favors mobility heavily. Most characters will end up simply rushing her down before she even has a chance to place a single brick, and those that aren't are typically heavyweights who will tear through buildings like a Kaiju. Factoring in a fun factor on how it feels to fight against, and I'm not certain teraformers have much place in Smash.

Honestly, there is too much that can go wrong with a terraforming set. Do you really want an opportunity to have someone set up a wall infinite on any stage? Or a chance for every match that is going badly to turn into a stall fest?

I just don't think move sets like that have a place in smash.

 

[StormC]

Steve won’t be on the boxart anyway.

Also, people are allowed to not like every character in Smash. Saying “**** the fans” is a pretty bold statement just because people here don’t like Steve. As someone who is satisfied with the roster now, I wouldn’t tell someone “stop complaining, we got the important stuff” if their character didn’t get in.

The thing with Steve also is he is iconic to Minecraft fans and nobody else. Most people who haven’t played MC wouldn’t be able to tell you the protagonist of the game. This isn’t the case for characters like Ryu and Cloud.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The thing with Steve also is he is iconic to Minecraft fans and nobody else. Most people who haven’t played MC wouldn’t be able to tell you the protagonist of the game. This isn’t the case for characters like Ryu and Cloud.

Just like Animal Crossing Guy.

 

[StormC]

Just like Animal Crossing Guy.

Who is not a third party.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Who is not a third party.

Still, the iconic point doesn't matter.

The point is who are you going to use to rep. the game? If Sakurai wants a character, he's gonna pick Steve.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'm pretty sure everyone and their grandmother would know Steve? Is from Minecraft thanks to the unique artstyle and that every nerdy videogame shop I've ever visited has him and the Creeper plastered across t-shirts, mugs, dolls, bags, etc.

To say Steve isn't famous amongst gamers even by sheer osmosis I feel is disingenuous. Never touched Minecraft nor has anyone I know but thanks to the merchandise it's been impossible to not learn his name.

I couldn't care less about Minecraft one way or the other, but I keep seeing the 'No-one who doesn't play Minecraft knows who Steve? is' argument.

Well what hope in hell does Shantae or Banjo have if Steve? isn't going to be recognised? The only thing they have over Steve? in that regard is their games have their name as the title.

 

[StormC]

I'm pretty sure everyone and their grandmother would know Steve? Is from Minecraft thanks to the unique artstyle and that every nerdy videogame shop I've ever visited has him and the Creeper plastered across t-shirts, mugs, dolls, bags, etc.

To say Steve isn't famous amongst gamers even by sheer osmosis I feel is disingenuous. Never touched Minecraft nor has anyone I know but thanks to the merchandise it's been impossible to not learn his name.

I couldn't care less about Minecraft one way or the other, but I keep seeing the 'No-one who doesn't play Minecraft knows who Steve? is' argument.

Well what hope in hell does Shantae or Banjo have if Steve? isn't going to be recognised? The only thing they have over Steve? in that regard is their games have their name as the title.

I’ve never heard Steve’s name until Smash speculation.

I don’t think Shantae will be playable and Banjo is a special case anyway as an ex-Nintendo character.

 

[cybersai]

To this day I have no idea what Minecraft even is, and I've been gaming since 1987,

 

[Captain Shades]

Steve won’t be on the boxart anyway.

Also, people are allowed to not like every character in Smash. Saying “**** the fans” is a pretty bold statement just because people here don’t like Steve. As someone who is satisfied with the roster now, I wouldn’t tell someone “stop complaining, we got the important stuff” if their character didn’t get in.

The thing with Steve also is he is iconic to Minecraft fans and nobody else. Most people who haven’t played MC wouldn’t be able to tell you the protagonist of the game. This isn’t the case for characters like Ryu and Cloud.

Okay, I want to address this, I never said F%&k the fans, I said Sakurai may choose to just say F&$k it and pick any random character he wants, like he’s done with Game & Watch, R.O.B., and so many other characters. Character decisions aren’t always based on what fans want, some are just very unique and he wants to try something different, especially since it feels like we’re down to the wire on really big fan requests as K Rool and Ridley are already gone, so now the rest are a lot more popularity varying. Some may like Shantae here, but go to IFunny or Gamefaqs and a completely different story is shown. The only big one left is Geno and I think we’re all in agreement that he’ll most likely make it in.

I’m sorry I put it in my little rant, but I never said F&$k the fans of any character. I was talking about how Sakurai might just ignore and do something he wants, or feels could be interesting instead of completely going with nothing but fan picks, as that is what makes Smash interesting as Sakurai brings in a character no one thought could work and makes them playable.

It's like MH. It's most well known for it's monsters not the Hunter. The same applies to Minecraft, it's most well known for it's world so it's best suited for a stage.

I think it’s more we’ll known for being a building tool, not the world. The world looks nice, but people go into Minecraft for the ability to create things, from full real life/fictional cities, to Elenor are set pieces. A character could easily incapsulate the fun of creation in Minecraft.

Can I just say that, from a game play standpoint, terraforming and building characters are an awful idea? Let me just repeat what I said about Isabel when a similar idea came from her:



Honestly, there is too much that can go wrong with a terraforming set. Do you really want an opportunity to have someone set up a wall infinite on any stage? Or a chance for every match that is going badly to turn into a stall fest?

I just don't think move sets like that have a place in smash.

1) To stop infinites, limit the materials.

2) He can’t just build walls, just like in MC, you have to have a block to place more, you cannot just put blocks in the sky without a pre-built structure first. Steve can’t just build a wall to defend himself, it takes a bit of time, and you can only go two blocks high without jumping, making the wall a non-issue if you actively go after Steve as you can literally just jump over the wall he’d be able to build without making himself open

3) Not every character has to be competitively viable. We have characters like Pichu for a reason, sometimes it’s just fun to have a unique character even if they’re trash tier. Steve would be a good character to use when in 4 player matches as distractions give him time to build and make the perfect armor, making him a more fun party character.

I’ve never heard Steve’s name until Smash speculation.

I don’t think Shantae will be playable and Banjo is a special case anyway as an ex-Nintendo character.

I never heard of Cloud until Smash. I knew about Final Fantasy, but I couldn’t name you a single character except maybe Black Mage as he was in some Mario titles.

Maybe the Smash fandom needs to stop being so easily offended by everything. We get like 6 FE characters, two of which were easy clones, and everyone freaks out because it’s not what I wanted. I play Smash for the different play styles and iconic characters, but I’ve basically been satisfied since Brawl (though the Dee would be cool). The Smash community will never be happy as even nice additions like Isabelle are met with crazy amounts of hostility, so why not just say F@#k it and try an original character. He’s satisfied your needs enough, lets just have fun now.

Finally to elaborate on my own point, I get annoyed with the community because they treat so many characters poorly for really no reason, whether it’s Waluigi who’s requests always get treated like jokes, or Steve where even the mere mention of him brings an attack squad of like every Banjo fan because while they never say a character would take the spot of another apparently Steve takes theirs. Sakurai doesn’t always need to please this fan base, especially since even when he tries to with characters like Isabelle or Chrom he gets blasted because X takes a spot or another generic anime sword fighter comments. Sakurai wouldn’t be betraying the fans by including Steve, he’s already given you guys two of your biggest requests, why would Steve be so detrimental? Just like the unnecessarily hated Corrin, Steve would be a unique fighter that would only add more options to the game. He has many aspects that make him unique, and whether we like it or not he’s a gaming icon at this point. At least give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he could bring before instantly hating him because he’s Steve.

 

[StormC]

Corrin is hated because of the conditions under which he was added more than anything (Fire Emblem went from 2 characters to 6 in one game including DLC, and was the only Nintendo newcomer in DLC period). You might deem Corrin "unnecessarily hated," but the idea that "if a character is in Smash, they're protected from criticism" is a bit asinine. Sakurai isn't a god and Smash isn't flawless.

That picture also doesn't make a ton of sense either. Pit was a pretty common request for Brawl and made a lot more sense than the Ice Climbers ever did.

I personally think Minecraft definitely warrants a stage, but I'm not sure a character is ideal. Just because a series is popular, is a character a good fit? I wouldn't be expecting a Call Of Duty character playable anytime soon despite being the highest selling video game series not in Smash. Can a character fit visually with the rest of the series, and is the character someone that will click with Smash gamers? These are all questions in my mind with these things.

I'm also hesitant to add a third party that is so new; will people still talk about Steve and Minecraft in ten years? Outside of , the youngest third party character is from 1997, his series itself being from 1988. But, that's just my own opinion. I'm not Sakurai myself. But just because Sakurai might do something doesn't mean someone has to necessarily agree to it.

If you support Steve, don't let me stop you. Just know that dissenting opinions against one's fav is common in Smash speculation. I should know!