Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[TheCJBrine]

I think you and a lot of other people are underestimating the kind of Impact that Doom has on the west compared to games like MGS and Bayo and what not. People who don't game know what Doom is and are far more likely to object to it, even censored, than those other games. It just being anywhere near the Smash Series might be an issue.

I don’t think Sakurai cares about violence as long as he can accurately represent the character without too much of it.

I’d argue Bayonetta could be seen as worse since she’s a witch, does torture, and has a bunch of demons as well, instead of just killing off evil demons even if it’s bloody. The original Doom only had you use guns, anyway.

Spoiler: haven’t played Persona 5 but this was mentioned before

Apparently Joker’s method to summoning his persona is also gruesome...to himself.

 

[Deleted member]

Interesting stuff going to give it a full watch later. So we have still 4 Capcom costumes, 3 Bamco costumes and 2 SE costumes missing. I feel next two fighters are from Namco and Capcom.

In regards to Mai, wow not very surprised but kinda funny. I guess either Sakurai didn't want to add her in a costume that wasn't her most popular one or her mere inclussion would have made the ESRB/CERO go crazy on Sakurai.

I do wonder if this means if characters like Doomguy, Ryu Hayabusa or Ezio have also the same issue given that CERO classifies their games as pretty much Adult games instead of mature.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean the one saving grace for Dragon Quest in smash is that at least there more than 2 songs FF music rights must be a mess

Yeah, the Final Fantasy songs were the real kicker.

But Dragon Quest got this time a good amount of songs for the default number before SNK came in.

 

[Goombaic]

Lol guess we're not getting a Senran Kagura character.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Also while I think a lot of people aren't going to like it; I think that comment about Mai Shiranui basically kills Doom Slayers' chances. If they couldn't get Mai in the background they sure aren't doing Doom Slayer as a playable character.

Pretty sure sex appeal and violence are two COMPLETELY seperate things and Bayonetta has both and she still made it in so... no offense but are you saying this just because you don't want Doom Slayer? That's all you gotta say honestly. We won't hate you for it.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Yeah, the Final Fantasy songs were the real kicker.

But Dragon Quest got this time a good amount of songs for the default number before SNK came in.

the only downside to the DQ songs is that there medi the orchestrations are far superior but it's great that we got more than two so I'll take it i wonder if Sakurai could've added more heroes as alts we could have gotten more songs

 

[Mango The Magician]

I don’t think Sakurai cares about violence as long as he can accurately represent the character without too much of it.

I’d argue Bayonetta could be seen as worse since she’s a witch, does torture, and has a bunch of demons as well, instead of just killing off evil demons even if it’s bloody. The original Doom only had you use guns, anyway.

Spoiler: haven’t played Persona 5 but this was mentioned before

Apparently Joker’s method to summoning his persona is also gruesome...to himself.

I don't know how much weight Bayonetta, Snake, or Joker have in the argument for violent characters in Smash since all three got in largely because of external factors. Kojima wanted Snake, Platinum wanted Bayonetta, and let's be honest, Sakurai wanted Joker. They're all toned down, and even though I haven't played Bayonetta or Persona I'm pretty confident in saying the three series place less emphasis, especially Metal Gear, on gore or extreme violence than Doom.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And people were satisfied with Hero’s music too.

Well, almost. They picked the wrong DQ4 overworld music.

 

[osby]

I don't know how much weight Bayonetta, Snake, or Joker have in the argument for violent characters in Smash since all three got in largely because of external factors. Kojima wanted Snake, Platinum wanted Bayonetta, and let's be honest, Sakurai wanted Joker. They're all toned down, and even though I haven't played Bayonetta or Persona I'm pretty confident in saying the three series place less emphasis, especially Metal Gear, on gore or extreme violence than Doom.

"Platinum wanted Bayo" is not an external factor when every sane company would want their character in Smash. Same with "Sakurai wanted Joker", it can be applied to multiple characters.

And "emphasis on violence" is a seriously subjective goalpost.

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

This is the part where I get banned for spamming gifs of Bayonetta torturing angels in brutal fashion like spanking their asses, and then chopping them in half with guillotines that result in blood exploding everywhere, or stuff like her trapping angels in Iron Maidens.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I do wonder if this means if characters like Doomguy, Ryu Hayabusa or Ezio have also the same issue given that CERO classifies their games as pretty much Adult games instead of mature.

You mean the exact same rating the Bayonetta games have?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Sakurai likely just didn’t want to include Mai without her most-popular depiction, and he couldn’t use that. He’s made seemingly strange decisions before.

Other characters like Doomguy can be included without making rating boards throw a fit since the characters don’t have to bring all the violence with them.

I don't know how much weight Bayonetta, Snake, or Joker have in the argument for violent characters in Smash since all three got in largely because of external factors. Kojima wanted Snake, Platinum wanted Bayonetta, and let's be honest, Sakurai wanted Joker. They're all toned down, and even though I haven't played Bayonetta or Persona I'm pretty confident in saying the three series place less emphasis, especially Metal Gear, on gore or extreme violence than Doom.

Bayonetta got in because of the Ballot, not Platinum. That’s still no excuse anyway, nor the other characters’ “excuses.”

Doomguy can also be toned down. I haven’t played his games but he seems cool, and I believe the original games weren’t as “bad” as the newer ones based on stuff that’s been said. Sakurai also called DOOM’s creator the father of the FPS genre.

 

[Sysreq]

Pretty sure sex appeal and violence are two COMPLETELY seperate things and Bayonetta has both and she still made it in so... no offense but are you saying this just because you don't want Doom Slayer? That's all you gotta say honestly. We won't hate you for it.

I'll say it, I don't want Doomguy. But, idk, it just feels off. If I get BTFO whatever, but I feel like Doomguy just pushes it a little too much.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m personally not a fan of Doom Slayer being in Smash (think he’s better suited for like Mortal Kombat) but at this point he is looking more likely and if he gets in it’s whatever

long as I get KOS-MOS and/or Elma I don’t give a crap

 

[DarthEnderX]

Other characters like Doomguy can be included without making rating boards throw a fit since the characters don’t have to bring all the violence with them.

It's not even that hard. You just replace blood splatter with hitsparks and you're done.

 

[Aerospherology]

He's just helping out.

 

[ArchRanger]

I’m secretly hoping that if Tales Of does get a rep, Sakurai’s comment about being fun to play is more important than recognition means that Velvet has an even greater chance to make it in despite Lloyd and Yuri destroying her in the popularity polls. She’d by far have the most unique and IMO the most fun kit utilizing her acrobatics, triple blades, and demon arm alongside Artes rather than Lloyd’s twin swords or Yuri’s katana. Plus it’s a female rep so win win. This is a very biased opinion though since Berseria is the only Tales game I’ve played lol. #VelvetforSmash

 

[Deleted member]

You can cut off people's limbs in many SamSho games (including the new one) but we got a Mii costume and spirits for it just today

 

[ES. Dinah]

I’m personally not a fan of Doom Slayer being in Smash (think he’s better suited for like Mortal Kombat) but at this point he is looking more likely and if he gets in it’s whatever

long as I get KOS-MOS and/or Elma I don’t give a crap

Rie, you have finally joined the KOS-MOS avatar club! :3

But yeah any Xeno rep (preferably female) please.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I’m personally not a fan of Doom Slayer being in Smash (think he’s better suited for like Mortal Kombat) but at this point he is looking more likely and if he gets in it’s whatever

long as I get KOS-MOS and/or Elma I don’t give a crap

KOS-MOS seems more likely for the additional DLC than the Fighters Pass since additional DLC sounds like it's going to be fan request territory.

 

[Mango The Magician]

"Platinum wanted Bayo" is not an external factor when every sane company would want their character in Smash. Same with "Sakurai wanted Joker", it can be applied to multiple characters.

And "emphasis on violence" is a seriously subjective goalpost.

Didn't the creator of Bayonetta specifically ask to have her included? That's a bit different than other characters.

Bayonetta got in because of the Ballot, not Platinum. That’s still no excuse anyway.

Doomguy can also be toned down. I haven’t played his games but he seems cool, and I believe the original games weren’t as “bad” as the newer ones based on stuff that’s been said. Sakurai also called DOOM’s creator the father of the FPS genre.

Yeah, I'll take this to my grave. That didn't happen. I refuse to believe that Bayonetta a relatively obscure character beat out most wanted picks like K. Rool, Geno, or other major well know characters. Still I personally think he's too violent and don't want him in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

You mean the exact same rating the Bayonetta games have?

You mean this is the same rating? Bayonetta games have the equivalent of mature or D and Doom has Z or the equivalent of Adult. We still have yet to see if we get a character from a Z rated game.

Spoiler

 

[Flyboy]

I’m secretly hoping that if Tales Of does get a rep, Sakurai’s comment about being fun to play is more important than recognition means that Velvet has an even greater chance to make it in despite Lloyd and Yuri destroying her in the popularity polls. She’d by far have the most unique and IMO the most fun kit utilizing her acrobatics, triple blades, and demon arm alongside Artes rather than Lloyd’s twin swords or Yuri’s katana. Plus it’s a female rep so win win. This is a very biased opinion though since Berseria is the only Tales game I’ve played lol. #VelvetforSmash

Velvet would hands down be the coolest Tales rep. Love her. She's tied with Heihachi in my Bamco wants and would be an incredible addition.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I just want Elma. I couldn't care less about Kos-Mos even though I think she's cool but I think I might be waiting till next Smash for Elma... so Kos-Mos it is

 

[osby]

Didn't the creator of Bayonetta specifically ask to have her included? That's a bit different than other characters.

Okay, you're just making things up.

Not wanting characters is fine, you don't have to "prove" why they can't/shouldn't be in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

YO THE TERRY HATS HAVE DIFFERENT LOGOS ON THEM

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don’t think the rating of their original games matter. It’s not like CERO is going to care about more than what content Sakurai decides to bring over into Smash, and Doomguy and his weapons shouldn’t do that when there’s no blood or viscera.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Okay, you're just making things up.

Not wanting characters is fine, you don't have to "prove" why they can't/shouldn't be in the game.

I'm just going off what I've read/heard. I could be wrong it's not like I have a encyclopedic knowledge of Smash history. I've seen plenty of people say that like Snake the creator asked to have her in Smash...which would make more sense than a basically dead at the time character like Bayonetta somehow winning the ballot.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I just want Elma. I couldn't care less about Kos-Mos even though I think she's cool but I think I might be waiting till next Smash for Elma... so Kos-Mos it is

I think Elma might be post pass if anything. She’s definitely got better chances than Rex IMO, who I see as dead in the water thanks to his costume

heck even Fiora, while less likely than either KOS-MOS or Elma, is more likely than Rex or Lora IMO

 

[IceKitsune]

Pretty sure sex appeal and violence are two COMPLETELY seperate things and Bayonetta has both and she still made it in so... no offense but are you saying this just because you don't want Doom Slayer? That's all you gotta say honestly. We won't hate you for it.

I have been playing Doom basically since it came out and I have no objection to him being in the game myself. However, I think it is unlikely that he is in if they couldn't even be bothered to use a more censored Mai costume (one that SNK made themselves no less) to get her into the background of the stage. I think that some of you are ignoring obvious issues with Doom Guy being in the game, like parents objections (the 90s happened parents haven't forgotten), or the ESRB likely just rating the game higher for him being in it at all just to name a few, I wouldn't put it passed those idiots to do that regardless of what is done with the character.

Most Non-gamers have no clue who Snake or Bayo are; especially parents, so a censored version of those characters aren't going to raise alarm bells like something like Doom Guy where most people know what kind of game he comes from. I think that way too many people in this thread have this idea that Doom Guy is a 100% lock and there is nothing that could possibly make the team consider any other Bethesda or ID software character ever.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just going off what I've read/heard. I could be wrong it's not like I have a encyclopedic knowledge of Smash history. I've seen plenty of people say that like Snake the creator asked to have her in Smash...which would make more sense than a basically dead at the time character like Bayonetta somehow winning the ballot.

>Dead at the time

 

[3BitSaurus]

Just did the Geese Spirit battle. He got a few good counters and grabs, I have to admit. Could almost hear the "Predictabo!".

If you can, finish it with a Final Smash as Terry. I did and it's incredibly satisfying.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

You mean this is the same rating? Bayonetta games have the equivalent of mature or D and Doom has Z or the equivalent of Adult. We still have yet to see if we get a character from a Z rated game.

Spoiler

i think Ryu could get past because he has an old school look to use like Simon the old NES Ryu is far less violent

 

[ES. Dinah]

I just want Elma. I couldn't care less about Kos-Mos even though I think she's cool but I think I might be waiting till next Smash for Elma... so Kos-Mos it is

Elma would have never existed without KOS-MOS. Same goes for Fiora, Pyra, Mythra etc.

You do know also that

Spoiler: Xenoblade X huge spoiler

Elma's true form is inspired heavily by KOS-MOS

Basically if KOS-MOS were to get in then I can see all those characters appearing in her stage.

 

[Sari]

JUST REALIZED THAT KRIZALID'S THEME MADE IT IN!

Granted it's not the '99 version (AKA Dear Falling Angel) but it's close enough.

 

[Mango The Magician]

>Dead at the time
View attachment 245488

The only reason the series is alive is because Nintendo funded Bayo 2, had that not happen the character would be in the same position as someone like Gex. I don't really buy that Bayo beat out picks like K. Rool, Geno, Waluigi, or even lesser picks like Lloyd. Beck I'd be more willing to believe Doom Guy got more votes than her.

 

[yeet123]

Is there a list somewhere of Terrys command inputs?

 

[Pinguino21v]

long as I get KOS-MOS and/or Elma I don’t give a crap

But yeah any Xeno rep (preferably female) please.

I think Elma might be post pass if anything. She’s definitely got better chances than Rex IMO, who I see as dead in the water thanks to his costume

On the Xeno games, we really need a remaster of Xenosaga, so I can try them at last. I don't really know KOS-MOS but I would like to. I, myself, am a supporter of Elma, way over Rex.

But nowadays, the discussions are locked in the third party field, especially in this thread. There's still no hint on the capability for these first party characters to come at a later date, and for someone that want Isaac and Elma, it's annoying. I really hope the first post-pass character is a first party, even if it's not one of my choice, it would at least open the gate of possibles.

 

[Deleted member]

Is there a list somewhere of Terrys command inputs?

It's all in his training movelist but here;
Burn Knuckle is Quartercircle forward
Crack Shoot is Quartercircle back
Rising Tackle is charge down-up
Power Dunk is a DP motion
Buster Wolf is QCF twice
Power Geyser is QCB then forward

 

[TheCJBrine]

What it comes down to is if Sakurai would still be happy representing the games without the stuff that causes them to be rated so high.

Can anyone name a reason why CERO or other rating boards would get mad at Sakurai even if he represents the character in an E10+ way? He may not have included Mai despite her more covered-up design, but we don’t know his reasons.

And, um, Mai’s classic design still shows off her thighs/hips, doesn’t it?