Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Uhhhh because unga bunga anime bad? The one thing Smash fans hate more than zoomer characters is anime despite the game literally being made in Japan and most of the characters having some "anime" influence as a result.

Despite this they insist that Zelda isn't anime at all

 

[EricTheGamerman]

"Anime" and "Swordsman" have basically become Smash dog whistles for "not my preferred 90s cartoon mascot."

 

[DarthEnderX]

You're still missing the point. Shantae becomes an Indie icon in the 2010s and her legacy is from the 2010s.

No, I get your point. I just don't agree that when a character first became popular matters more than when they first appeared.

 

[Sysreq]

A character's legacy is infinitely more important than the date that character came into existence when it comes to Smash. Being old or older doesn't entitle characters to anything special.

Tell that to Geno fans.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

A character's legacy is infinitely more important than the date that character came into existence when it comes to Smash. Being old or older doesn't entitle characters to anything special.

More the reason someone like Lara Croft more then earns her spot in Smash.

As with others like Crash, Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa just to name a few.

 

[Deleted member]

"Anime" and "Swordsman" have basically become Smash dog whistles for "not my preferred 90s cartoon mascot."

Are you really using the term dog whistle with absolutely 0 irony in the context of Smash speculation
It's not that serious mate

 

[Dark Bagel]

"Anime" and "Swordsman" have basically become Smash dog whistles for "not my preferred 90s cartoon mascot."

And the REALLY ironic thing about the whole ordeal is that Banjo ended up becoming a stealth "anime swordsman" character, anyway. A lot of his attack hitboxes with Kazooie are disjoints that share commonalities with the likes of Marth, Lucina, etc.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And the REALLY ironic thing about the whole ordeal is that Banjo ended up becoming a stealth "anime swordsman" character, anyway. A lot of his attack hitboxes with Kazooie are disjoints that share commonalities with the likes of Marth, Lucina, etc.

A perfect representation of what Banjo-Kazooie originally was.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

No, I get your point. I just don't agree that when a character first became popular matters more than when they first appeared.

Why not? Plenty of characters haven't reached popularity and legacy until later on in their lives (or vice versa, they're popular early on but fade away later in life). Some arbitrary notion of when a character was created doesn't mean anything. Smash would look awful if that was the case and just consist of NES icons (I know that's what you want, but dear god would it be miserable for many of us and people who like anything developed post-2000). Street Fighter is a prime example that shows, hey, your first game can be absolutely terrible and you can make a legacy later on. Nobody remembers the first Street Fighter, but they sure as hell remember Street Fighter II. I mean, look at Final Fantasy. They didn't pick a Black Mage, they picked Cloud from when Final Fantasy truly went mainstream.

The series in Smash are usually particularly influential ones or majorly popular ones, not just the oldest games that just happen to predate other things (and are infinitely less influential).

Tell that to Geno fans.

Geno has his own legacy in a super weird, crazy specific to Smash fandom type way. It's weird as hell and part of the reason I support him, but I do frequently disagree with the Geno thread on the notion that "We should be next because we've been supporting Geno for 'insert years here.'" I definitely don't agree that he's entitled to any more of a spot than any other character though and I stand by the fact that he's largely only ever going to be added to satisfy a small subsection of the fan base. I definitely don't think him dating back to 1996 means anything either.

 

[osby]

And the REALLY ironic thing about the whole ordeal is that Banjo ended up becoming a stealth "anime swordsman" character, anyway. A lot of his attack hitboxes with Kazooie are disjoints that share commonalities with the likes of Marth, Lucina, etc.

That's just following the trend of K.Rool having a counter.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Smash would look awful if that was the case and just consist of NES icons (I know that's what you want...

Not quite. He hates the retro picks like Duck Hunt and Ice Climbers.

 

[SKX31]

Are you really using the term dog whistle with absolutely 0 irony in the context of Smash speculation
It's not that serious mate

Difficult to say "it's not that serious" when hardcore Smash speculaters treat the merest hint of a character appearing - or not appearing - very seriously.

Emotional investment's one hell of a drug, and sometimes it can spiral really out of control.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's just following the trend of K.Rool having a counter.

It ****s me up that I got blasted for giving K.Rool a counter in my fan moveset that I made like 4 years ago because K.Rool would be better than that when he got in but nah Sakurai deadass agreed with me

 

[Deleted member]

Difficult to say "it's not that serious" when hardcore Smash speculaters treat the merest hint of a character appearing - or not appearing - very seriously.

Emotional investment's one hell of a drug, and sometimes it can spiral really out of control.

Okay fair enough, but maybe keep political terms out of it? It's not being used wrong in context but it also seems a little bit extreme to me
Like you pretty much only hear dog whistle used when referring to things that hide messages to **** like racism and white supremacy, not when someone is complaining that they don't like a Smash character

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Just a reminder that all the prominent Microsoft candidates are all anime swordsmen in one way or another

Banjo & Kazooie? Literally started off as an RPG with a human sword-weilding protagonist

Steve? Swords are arguably the most prominent weapon in Minecraft and I'm pretty sure there's a few texture packs that make Steve look more like an anime character

Master Chief? Uses energy swords and Halo even has an anime adaptation

Basically, none of yall can escape anime sword wielders no matter how much you claim to hate them. Sorry, I don't make the rules ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

[Deleted member]

Are you really using the term dog whistle with absolutely 0 irony in the context of Smash speculation
It's not that serious mate

Trust me, he's not wrong. It was a popular reason to trash Erdrick for being boring. Ironically, some of these people who bashed Erdrick being conceptually boring also supported Isaac so that's how baffling and hypocritical the argument is.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Are you really using the term dog whistle with absolutely 0 irony in the context of Smash speculation
It's not that serious mate

I am. It describes the situation pretty much perfectly. The complaints about swordsmen and anime type characters are almost always poorly disguised whinging about the character in question not being their preferred pick that is usually a more cartoony one from the 90s.

Not quite. He hates the retro picks like Duck Hunt and Ice Climbers.

Wha.... WHAT? How is any self-respecting fan of the NES going to hate Duck Hunt? They defined that generation alongside Mario for crying out loud!

 

[Deleted member]

Trust me, he's not wrong. It was a popular reason to trash Erdrick for being boring. Ironically, some of these people who bashed Erdrick being boring also supported Isaac so that's how baffling the argument is when it comes to Smash Bros.

No he isn't wrong, but like I said above using a term usually reserved for politics seems somewhat extreme

I am. It describes the situation pretty much perfectly. The complaints about swordsmen and anime type characters are almost always poorly disguised whinging about the character in question not being their preferred pick that is usually a more cartoony one from the 90s.

Again, you're right, it does describe the situation pretty accurately, I'm just taking issue with the way you're using the term

 

[osby]

Trust me, he's not wrong. It was a popular reason to trash Erdrick for being boring. Ironically, some of these people who bashed Erdrick being conceptually boring also supported Isaac so that's how baffling and hypocritical the argument is.

You forgot the almighty "BUT ISAAC WOULDN'T USE HIS SWORD!"

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

NO MORE JAPANESE CARTOON CHARACTERS IN MY JAPANESE CARTOON FIGHTING GAME!

I dunno, I've never like the anime argument and I dislike the Swords argument even more. Because even if we replaced Ike with Hector, Hector's axe would act just the same as Ike's sword.

 

[Deleted member]

You forgot the almighty "BUT ISAAC WOULDN'T USE HIS SWORD!"

PEOPLE SAID THAT!? I hope those people got thwacked or kamikazeed at least once by Hero.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

Just a reminder that all the prominent Microsoft candidates are all anime swordsmen in one way or another

Banjo & Kazooie? Literally started off as an RPG with a human sword-weilding protagonist

Steve? Swords are arguably the most prominent weapon in Minecraft and I'm pretty sure there's a few texture packs that make Steve look more like an anime character

Master Chief? Uses energy swords and Halo even has an anime adaptation

Basically, none of yall can escape anime sword wielders no matter how much you claim to hate them. Sorry, I don't make the rules ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Newcomer: God from Black and White.
(wielding a sword)

 

[Calamitas]

Newcomer: God from Black and White.
(wielding a sword)

Man, I'm remembering Pokémon Black and White worse than I thought. I didn't even know that a God other than Arceus was in the game!

Yes I know that there's a different game just titled Black and White

 

[EricTheGamerman]

NO MORE JAPANESE CARTOON CHARACTERS IN MY JAPANESE CARTOON FIGHTING GAME!

I dunno, I've never like the anime argument and I dislike the Swords argument even more. Because even if we replaced Ike with Hector, Hector's axe would act just the same as Ike's sword.

Or just the fact you can actually use a sword in a ton of different ways and implement mechanics that make the sword user more unique while still wielding a sword. Or that, you know, people like a ****ing ton of characters that use swords and want to see their favorite characters in the game regardless of the weapon they use because they're not invested in every single character reveal being somehow "unique" in comparison to the last.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

You forgot the almighty "BUT ISAAC WOULDN'T USE HIS SWORD!"

Bruh what? Why the hell would you ask for a character that frequently uses a sword and expect them not to use it? That's like asking for Dante and saying that he won't use Ebony & Ivory in order to set him apart from Bayonetta. If a character is prominently featured with a certain weapon, you better expect that to be a part of their moveset!

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

You know I've got nothing really specifically pointing towards it, but I feel like Professor Layton has a good chance. Maybe I'm just feeling overly optimistic today, but regardless I'm going to predict Professor Layton as fighter #5.

I'm curious to see what other characters people are predicting as of now, we're kind of in a lull in terms of speculation until Terry releases. There a good probability that we could all be wrong, but what fun is speculation without risk. So what characters are y'all predicting?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Bruh what? Why the hell would you ask for a character that frequently uses a sword and expect them not to use it? That's like asking for Dante and saying that he won't use Ebony & Ivory in order to set him apart from Bayonetta. If a character is prominently featured with a certain weapon, you better expect that to be a part of their moveset!

Nonono see Isaac is special, he'd be different because he'd do something else with his B moves, the only attacks in the game!

 

[osby]

Bruh what? Why the hell would you ask for a character that frequently uses a sword and expect them not to use it? That's like asking for Dante and saying that he won't use Ebony & Ivory in order to set him apart from Bayonetta. If a character is prominently featured with a certain weapon, you better expect that to be a part of their moveset!

A lot of fans think cramming references to every throw and tilt is more important than making an actually coherent moveset.

Which is kinda silly. Unless they are platforming or fighting game characters, most fighters have like four or five direct references in their normal moveset at most.

 

[Dark Bagel]

Just a reminder that all the prominent Microsoft candidates are all anime swordsmen in one way or another

Banjo & Kazooie? Literally started off as an RPG with a human sword-weilding protagonist

Holy cow, I forgot about that.

So essentially, the purest, original form of the West Smash fanbase's darling turned out to be what they reviled all along, the plot thickens. Corrin, take notes. THIS is how you do a Fire Emblem story with serious twists and turns.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You forgot the almighty "BUT ISAAC WOULDN'T USE HIS SWORD!"

...Wat?

Isaac: "Oh no! It's a fight. What do I do?
Other Person: "Use your sword like you usually do."
Isaac: "No! Everyone will hate me!"

 

[3BitSaurus]

You know I've got nothing really specifically pointing towards it, but I feel like Professor Layton has a good chance. Maybe I'm just feeling overly optimistic today, but regardless I'm going to predict Professor Layton as fighter #5.

I'm curious to see what other characters people are predicting as of now, we're kind of in a lull in terms of speculation until Terry releases. There a good probability that we could all be wrong, but what fun is speculation without risk. So what characters are y'all predicting?

Until something else comes up, I'm sticking to #5 being a Capcom character. Either Jill, Leon or Phoenix.

 

[Curious Villager]

You know I've got nothing really specifically pointing towards it, but I feel like Professor Layton has a good chance. Maybe I'm just feeling overly optimistic today, but regardless I'm going to predict Professor Layton as fighter #5.

I'm curious to see what other characters people are predicting as of now, we're kind of in a lull in terms of speculation until Terry releases. There a good probability that we could all be wrong, but what fun is speculation without risk. So what characters are y'all predicting?

I think some existing company is probably double dipping for fighter 5.
I'd love to see Layton soon though if he's in...

 

[Wunderwaft]

You know I've got nothing really specifically pointing towards it, but I feel like Professor Layton has a good chance. Maybe I'm just feeling overly optimistic today, but regardless I'm going to predict Professor Layton as fighter #5.

I'm curious to see what other characters people are predicting as of now, we're kind of in a lull in terms of speculation until Terry releases. There a good probability that we could all be wrong, but what fun is speculation without risk. So what characters are y'all predicting?

I haven't changed my prediction. I still believe the fifth character is going to be a Resident Evil rep.

 

[Deleted member]

Until something else comes up, I'm sticking to #5 being a Capcom character. Either Jill, Leon or Phoenix.

Gonna like your post because I just read your signature.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I haven't changed my prediction. I still believe the fifth character is going to be a Resident Evil rep.

I doubt Resident Evil is 5th just based upon the Mii costume situation, but Resident Evil is one of like 5 different series I just don't see us getting through Smash without it ending up in the game in some form. It's the biggest Japanese developed series missing in Smash by a margin of 40 million units (not counting Pro Soccer Evolution and Gran Turismo for fairly obvious reasons) and specifically has a storied history with Nintendo that a lot of fans would be happy to see in Smash. Ironically, the next closest is Monster Hunter from Capcom as well lol (and Tomb Raider on the technicality that Square Enix acquired it with 74 million sales to Resi's 92 million).

 

[KatKit]

It ****s me up that I got blasted for giving K.Rool a counter in my fan moveset that I made like 4 years ago because K.Rool would be better than that when he got in but nah Sakurai deadass agreed with me

I kid you not, circa 2010, I was the only one on my old anime forum to hype up a character I referred to as 'Missfit' to appear in a hypothetical sequel to Brawl (there were three topics solely dedicated to Smash Bros. and a social group, and I kept bringing her up in the main one). I didn't own the game at the time, so I based most of her attacks off of box art/promotional images... and it came true (although I envisioned her using the board for a couple of her attacks). It was a while back, but the general response to the idea was "Lol no".

To date, it's my only pipe dream that Sakurai fulfilled, and almost exactly how I imagined it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...Resident Evil is one of like 5 different series I just don't see us getting through Smash without it ending up in the game in some form.

???

I kid you not, circa 2010, I was the only one on my old anime forum to hype up a character I referred to as 'Missfit' to appear in a hypothetical sequel to Brawl (there were three topics solely dedicated to Smash Bros. and a social group, and I kept bringing her up in the main one). I didn't own the game at the time, so I based most of her attacks off of box art/promotional images... and it came true (although I envisioned her using the board for a couple of her attacks).

To date, it's my only pipe dream that Sakurai fulfilled, and almost exactly how I imagined it.

Who's misfit referring to? Palutena?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

???


Who's misfit referring to? Palutena?

Wii Fit judging by the description

 

[Wunderwaft]

I doubt Resident Evil is 5th just based upon the Mii costume situation

Are you talking about the Mega Man Mii costumes that got shown in Banjo's video?
If so then I don't think they're that big of a hit. There are still some Capcom Mii costumes missing and it's not like they have to be revealed alongside a Capcom character. I don't think every Mii costume is returning and I theorize some got cut in favor of new ones.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I doubt Resident Evil is 5th just based upon the Mii costume situation, but Resident Evil is one of like 5 different series I just don't see us getting through Smash without it ending up in the game in some form. It's the biggest Japanese developed series missing in Smash by a margin of 40 million units (not counting Pro Soccer Evolution and Gran Turismo for fairly obvious reasons) and specifically has a storied history with Nintendo that a lot of fans would be happy to see in Smash. Ironically, the next closest is Monster Hunter from Capcom as well lol (and Tomb Raider on the technicality that Square Enix acquired it with 74 million sales to Resi's 92 million).

Time for some completely anecdotal and meaningless ""evidence"" that no one asked for:

I feel like some people doubt Capcom just because of the two Mii Costumes that came with B-K, as they should come with a Capcom character if there was any, right? Well, back in Smash 4, the first two Capcom costumes released along with Mewtwo. Considering that Lucas, Roy and Ryu all released in the same date, it means the first two Capcom costumes released right before Ryu rather than with Ryu.

Again, this is 100% anecdotal and probably means nothing, but I feel like the Mii Costumes would probably be a point in the Capcom crew's favor rather than in their detriment.