Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Jomosensual]

I will stan by the Grinch leak because the "Psynergy" was an extremely compelling observation.

Chair Theory I never understood.

Oh god I forgot about chair theory. Man I hated everything about that.

 

[Deleted member]

It's not even about toxicity or the likes. Just that discussion on the Square character (and honestly, I think it even affected other characters) dragged on for too much time without anything to feed speculation outside of some tidbits from Sakurai.

And here we are still in the dark.

*yawn* For someone who currently has 4 hours worth of free time, it's kinda nice opening up old discussions.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You can make it even longer if you take into account Verge brought up the SE rep back in August 2018

I can make it longer still by having requested the character from the beginning.

 

[Deleted member]

The period was awful for the people who didn't believe in the leak, being constantly ignored and having people insult you (at the very least) if you didn't believe on it or pointed the inconsistencies in the story/art/timeframe/actual info from insiders. Plus you both also ignore multiple people got death threats.

Not helping was that the only credible source against the Grinch leak from the leaker side was Vergeben, who--at his prime--was a massive jerk who would use stuff like autistic as an insult.

 

[Deleted member]

Coming into the Smash community while everyone was still fresh from the salt of the Grinch leak felt quite strange if you ask me.

 

[osby]

I don’t know if this was been posted before but here’s an interesting tweet of how Japanese players view the idea of Doomguy: https://twitter.com/itjustbelikeit/status/1187153986555731968?s=21

With this in mind, can we please stop painting Western audiences in a negative light and treating them like uncultured swine just because they’ve never played or heard of a game that’s niche in their home country?

I’m not saying this to justify Hero and Terry being “wasted slots” as they’re definitely not but maybe now we can stop pretending Japanese Smash fans are this innocent peaceful group who are civil about character choices when they’re acting no better.

You might want to look down a bit:

Spoiler

They do,surprisingly.
Most were like "meh,figures",some were like "i recommend they play the game since it's good" then there were those few that went "why they complaining that hero wasted a spot on direct,not like we're complaining about banjo and kazooie wasting a spot"

— シロウ (@komahikohima) October 24, 2019

"They do,surprisingly. Most were like "meh,figures",some were like "i recommend they play the game since it's good" then there were those few that went "why they complaining that hero wasted a spot on direct,not like we're complaining about banjo and kazooie wasting a spot"

"Basically they reacted to western players reacting to Hero like western players reacted to japan players reacting to Doom. So yeah,please no one misunderstand the opinion of a few toxic players as the whole playerbases opinion and be nice."

 

[Deleted member]

Not helping was that the only credible source against the Grinch leak from the leaker side was Vergeben, who--at his prime--was a massive jerk who would use stuff like autistic as an insult.

That is not true, pretty much EVERY insider discarded the leak immediately. Only dude that backed it was Papagenos who let's be honest, he is awful at making assumptions.

 

[Deleted member]

Coming into the Smash community while everyone was still fresh from the salt of the Grinch leak felt quite strange if you ask me.

I missed the salt thankfully. I didn't join Smashboards until after Joker got revealed, which was around the time DaybreakHorizon cried in his bed for three whole nights while listening to Beneath the Maks.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The period was awful for the people who didn't believe in the leak, being constantly ignored and having people insult you (at the very least) if you didn't believe on it or pointed the inconsistencies in the story/art/timeframe/actual info from insiders. Plus you both also ignore multiple people got death threats.

I don’t remember if I knew people had death threats or not, but yeah that ain’t cool and neither were the people being jerks.

For me, focusing on the speculation and discussions themselves, it was just generally fun, especially the memes. Maybe it got tiring after a bit, but it was mostly fun and exciting.

The Banjo vs. Steve bullcrap, however, was horrid for me, if everyone is talkin’ personal experiences.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

Reimu is such an obscure character for me that it seems like one Sakurai would seriously consider. I’m still hoping for the most talked about and rumored characters like Crash, Geno, Doom Slayer, Jill and Hayabusa to be a part of the post pass or FP5. I don’t know if I have a personal character I want them to add. Heihachi would be nice, or maybe Morrigan, though they’ll have to dramatically change her outfit. I want to lick Chun-Li’s underboob. I mean, I seriously hope Sakurai milks the game for all its worth since he pretty much has a strangle hold on my wallet. Getting some long-requested 1st party characters would be nice like Dixie Kong, Rex, Porky, Isaac, Waluigi and Bandana Dee, but that’s super cliche to say I find.

 

[Deleted member]

You wanna know a greater source of frustration? Try supporting both Erdrick and Geno, and then paying a visit to the Geno thread. Half the people there were taking more shots at Dragon Quest than a game of beer pong.

One of the worst things about that period of speculation is that it felt like people weren't arguing for their character, but trying to discredit yours
"Dragon Quest isn't popular in the west"
"Steve is barely even a character"
"Banjo is from an overrated dead franchise"
And the usual stuff like "I hate [game]" that's trying to pass itself off as a legit argument. Not to say that stuff doesn't still happen (it absolutely does) but it felt more rampant then

 

[Deleted member]

You might want to look down a bit:

Spoiler

They do,surprisingly.
Most were like "meh,figures",some were like "i recommend they play the game since it's good" then there were those few that went "why they complaining that hero wasted a spot on direct,not like we're complaining about banjo and kazooie wasting a spot"

— シロウ (@komahikohima) October 24, 2019

"They do,surprisingly. Most were like "meh,figures",some were like "i recommend they play the game since it's good" then there were those few that went "why they complaining that hero wasted a spot on direct,not like we're complaining about banjo and kazooie wasting a spot"

"Basically they reacted to western players reacting to Hero like western players reacted to japan players reacting to Doom. So yeah,please no one misunderstand the opinion of a few toxic players as the whole playerbases opinion and be nice."

It's really coming to the point that other cultures would have disagreements over this. I thought people would be okay with Banjo thanks to the West's over the top reactions, but they're showing their true colors. Yeah, can';t please the entire world with this mentality.

 

[Deleted member]

That is not true, pretty much EVERY insider discarded the leak immediately. Only dude that backed it was Papagenos who let's be honest, he is awful at making assumptions.

Really? Huh. Could have fooled me. Maybe I looked in the wrong areas.

 

[Deleted member]

The period was awful for the people who didn't believe in the leak, being constantly ignored and having people insult you (at the very least) if you didn't believe on it or pointed the inconsistencies in the story/art/timeframe/actual info from insiders. Plus you both also ignore multiple people got death threats.

Well I did say the fallout of the Grinch Leak was horrible and I assume that's where the majority of the death threats come from. Obviously people getting death threats is horrible regardless of it being during or after the leak.

For people who didn't believe in it and were vocal about not believing in it the period was obviously awful but personally I enjoyed the time I had with it.

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

I'm having PTSD about the Grinch... I can still taste the salt...

 

[Ben Holt]

With all the rumors

Really? Huh. Could have fooled me. Maybe I looked in the wrong areas.

GameXplain and Vergeben denounced it immediately. Though Vergeben wasn't as universally trusted yet since the game hadn't come out.

 

[Deleted member]

Well I did say the fallout of the Grinch Leak was horrible and I assume that's where the majority of the death threats come from. Obviously people getting death threats is horrible regardless of it being during or after the leak.

For people who didn't believe in it and were vocal about not believing in it the period was obviously awful but personally I enjoyed the time I had with it.

To quote the late Miriam-Defensor Santiago on my statement when I first went to this community:

"I feel like Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom"

 

[Jomosensual]

Reimu is such an obscure character for me that it seems like one Sakurai would seriously consider. I’m still hoping for the most talked about and rumored characters like Crash, Geno, Doom Slayer, Jill and Hayabusa to be a part of the post pass or FP5. I don’t know if I have a personal character I want them to add. Heihachi would be nice, or maybe Morrigan, though they’ll have to dramatically change her outfit. I want to lick Chun-Li’s underboob. I mean, I seriously hope Sakurai milks the game for all its worth since he pretty much has a strangle hold on my wallet. Getting some long-requested 1st party characters would be nice like Dixie Kong, Rex, *****, Isaac, Waluigi and Bandana Dee, but that’s super cliche to say I find.

I really want to know which character name got censored

 

[Deleted member]

With all the rumors
GameXplain and Vergeben denounced it immediately. Though Vergeben wasn't as universally trusted yet since the game hadn't come out.

Are GameXplain even a leakers? I still feel that's pretty ambiguous to be consistently reliable.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

I really want to know which character name got censored

I fixed it. I’m typing on mobile and it autocorrected to something else. It’s suppose to be Porky.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I really want to know which character name got censored

Porky, who isn't really long-requested all thst much compared to the others.

 

[Deleted member]

Are GameXplain even a leakers? I still feel that's pretty ambiguous to be consistently reliable.

In terms of leakers, only Verg is the one I trust.

And Papagenos is the only guy whom I feel is the only one right to talk about leaks. Not GameXplain, not LaxChris, and especially not Aaronitmar.

 

[Deleted member]

Well I did say the fallout of the Grinch Leak was horrible and I assume that's where the majority of the death threats come from. Obviously people getting death threats is horrible regardless of it being during or after the leak.

For people who didn't believe in it and were vocal about not believing in it the period was obviously awful but personally I enjoyed the time I had with it.

The fallout was cathartic just to see so many people who mocked people who didn't believe on it got BTFO. Period during the leak was awful if you weren't in the circlejerk, if you were celebrating most likely you didn't noticed how awful some of the fanbases were. That's where a lot of the toxicity of the fanbase was displayed and many of the mods here received death threats during this period where people were being banned due to their behavior.

Really? Huh. Could have fooled me. Maybe I looked in the wrong areas.

Gamexplain discarded the leak immediately and people got angry at them lol.

Are GameXplain even a leakers? I still feel that's pretty ambiguous to be consistently reliable.

Jon seems to have quite a few sources, he got the FF announcements correctly last year. Same games that were announced on September direct.

 

[Sysreq]

Are GameXplain even a leakers? I still feel that's pretty ambiguous to be consistently reliable.

A lot of people think Jon from GameXplain might have some sources.

 

[Ben Holt]

Are GameXplain even a leakers? I still feel that's pretty ambiguous to be consistently reliable.

They are not leakers, but they are insiders.

 

[Nemuresu]

Are GameXplain even a leakers? I still feel that's pretty ambiguous to be consistently reliable.

I wouldn't call him a leaker, but Jon teases stuff (like Ridley being a playable character) every now and then.

 

[osby]

I thought people would be okay with Banjo thanks to the West's over the top reactions, but they're showing their true colors.

I think you're missing the point. Most of the comments didn't have a big problem with Western picks.

But the ones who have basically said "why we should be okay with them if they complain about the characters we like so much?" which is completely fair imo.

You can't just blindly attack at other fanbases and expect them to be happy for you when you get what you wanted.

 

[Deleted member]

I think you're missing the point. Most of the comments didn't have a big problem with Western picks.

But the ones who have basically said "why we should be okay with them if they complain about the characters we like so much?" which is completely fair imo.

You can't just blindly attack at other fanbases and expect them to be happy for you when you get what you wanted.

I see that. And I feel that.

If Morrigan does get into Smash, I'm ready to do the defense. People will come ******** at me like "who wanted this chick?" or "too sexy!", since I'm pretty vocal about my support for her.

 

[Dee Dude]

Yes, because every single person in the US that plays Smash spammed Sakurai’s Twitter even though it can clear he typed it out in English just to quiet the loud ones in the back yet apparently I shouldn’t generalize all Japanese fans.

Real nice, also I’m not saying Team Real wasn’t being toxic but you have to be delusional if you honestly believe Team Fake were 100% victims in the Grinch Era.

Both sides had nice people and both sides had ***holes.

And who the hell ever said Japan needed to be happy for Banjo fans? If most Western fans didn’t like Hero then it’s only fair the Japanese community didn’t care about Banjo.

What mattered is that everyone got what they wanted.

 

[Ben Holt]

I think you're missing the point. Most of the comments didn't have a big problem with Western picks.

But the ones who have basically said "why we should be okay with them if they complain about the characters we like so much?" which is completely fair imo.

You can't just blindly attack at other fanbases and expect them to be happy for you when you get what you wanted.

Well, not to get overly political, but since Smash Bros. is a game with a GLOBAL fanbase, and the Western fanbase (North America and Europe) outnumbers Japan SIGNIFICANTLY, it's kinda justified to be annoyed with Japanese favoritism.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

You might want to look down a bit:

Spoiler

They do,surprisingly.
Most were like "meh,figures",some were like "i recommend they play the game since it's good" then there were those few that went "why they complaining that hero wasted a spot on direct,not like we're complaining about banjo and kazooie wasting a spot"

— シロウ (@komahikohima) October 24, 2019

"They do,surprisingly. Most were like "meh,figures",some were like "i recommend they play the game since it's good" then there were those few that went "why they complaining that hero wasted a spot on direct,not like we're complaining about banjo and kazooie wasting a spot"

"Basically they reacted to western players reacting to Hero like western players reacted to japan players reacting to Doom. So yeah,please no one misunderstand the opinion of a few toxic players as the whole playerbases opinion and be nice."

if only they knew that there are western DQ fans who were very excited but most likely they already do

 

[Deleted member]

Both sides had nice people and both sides had ***holes.

Perhaps the same could be said of all gaming communities.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

The fallout was cathartic just to see so many people who mocked people who didn't believe on it got BTFO. Period during the leak was awful if you weren't in the circlejerk, if you were celebrating most likely you didn't noticed how awful some of the fanbases were. That's where a lot of the toxicity of the fanbase was displayed and many of the mods here received death threats during this period where people were being banned due to their behavior.

A lot of people on the other side were going "I told you so" and kicking those people who were hopeful, though. Yeah, the thing was debunked before the direct, but a lot of people didn't even really care about the leak as much as they wanted Isaac or Shadow. Then all those characters were revealed as assist trophies and those people got the double whammy of disconfirmations and others telling them they were stupid for hoping.

 

[Ben Holt]

I see that. And I feel that.

If Morrigan does get into Smash, I'm ready to do the defense. People will come ******** at me like "who wanted this chick?" or "too sexy!", since I'm pretty vocal about my support for her.

The only character "too sexy" for Smash is Cammy.
She is my waifu, and I will not stand for her being toned down for the kiddies!

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

I had an extramarital affair with someone on Team Fake and I can confirm they are nice people.

 

[Deleted member]

A lot of people on the other side were going "I told you so" and kicking those people who were hopeful, though. Yeah, the thing was debunked before the direct, but a lot of people didn't even really care about the leak as much as they wanted Isaac or Shadow. Then all those characters were revealed as assist trophies and those people got the double whammy of disconfirmations and others telling them they were stupid for hoping.

People actually fight over this, eh?

*about to pull a nature documentary meme*

The only character "too sexy" for Smash is Cammy.
She is my waifu, and I will not stand for her being toned down for the kiddies!

*cough* Wreck it Ralph *cough*

 

[GoodGrief741]

I wonder if getting nostalgic about all the ****ty times in Smash speculation is a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with the fact that we're super clueless about what's next.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Okay, I can say the same toxicity crap in the Banjo vs. Steve stuff, likely minus death threats but yes those are horrible and stupid in any situation.

Let’s not get onto people for finding the Grinch fun personally; y’all certainly don’t seem to have gotten the same feelings of disgust, annoyance, and disappointment from the Banjo vs. Steve crap as I did. Grinch may have been horrible for y’all and yeah I remember some jerks too, and I know I would’ve been feeling the same way if I had experienced what y’all did, but come on. Of course I’m disappointed that there are people who hate you and send death threats to you over a videogame, a silly videogame “leak”, or whatever characters you want, and some other stuff, but still.

 

[osby]

Well, not to get overly political, but since Smash Bros. is a game with a GLOBAL fanbase, and the Western fanbase (North America and Europe) outnumbers Japan SIGNIFICANTLY, it's kinda justified to be annoyed with Japanese favoritism.

What favoritism?

Hero was revealed along with Banjo and Western audiences still complained because only half of the reveals appealed to them, not all of them.

This isn't justified annoyance, that's just being insatiable and petty.

 

[ES. Dinah]

Actually can I get a summary here? Who is KOS-MOS and why is she cool given she's from a PS2 game? What makes her a better choice vs Rex or Elma? ES. Dinah @Rie Sonomura

Late response cause I was at work but as much as I love everything Xeno I dont think any of the characters come close to KOS-MOS. She is their mother so to speak. Fiora, Elma, Pyra, Mythra, etc are all inspired by KOS-MOS and have similar traits and plot. KOS-MOS can bring any weapon out of her arsenal into smash. She's capable of wielding drills, hammers, swords, gattling guns, lasers, bows, pistols, and she has amazing flashy combos. She's an incredibly exciting choice for smash also because Monolith Soft and Namco have a amazing relationship and she would be the ultimate loveletter to Monolith Soft. They even had her on the front of their 20th Anniversary Artwork. KOS-MOS is the symbol of Xeno in general and is going to be loved for Eternity by Monolith Soft. She's also female and we desperately need more female characters. KOS-MOS, imo would seal the deal with the first fighter pass and become the dlc fighter with the most tools in her arsenal and combine playstyles. Example: Hero is a mage sword fighter, Joker is a dagger user with some magic, and Banjo is a fist fighter while Terry is a fast rushdown character with blinding speed. Think of it like KOS-MOS can do A LOT for one character.

KOS-MOS is iconic for Namco and people recognize her from crossovers more than her own series Xenosaga. Xenosaga episode 1 and 3 were amazing but II is what struggled and ultimately put the series to be rushed out because of its bad choices such as removal of voice actors and battle system stuff. If KOS-MOS were to come to smash then we can likely see Xenosaga evolve and be given a chance especially after all the wonderful things Takahashi and his team have learned from Xenoblade. While her series is not well known, KOS-MOS has tons of figurines that sold well and even became the first character alongside main characters Pyra and Mythra to get expensive figurines. It's kinda a big deal and was even shown off at the Nintendo booth at WonFest even though shes's not entirely Nintendo. Nintendo knows people likely recognize her as the most aggravating blade to pull in Xenoblade 2 and that, imo makes her so popular in the fanbase. Everyone posts about not pulling her, etc. So in essence, KOS-MOS is a queen for Monolith and Namco and there's really no excuse to NOT have her in smash after she's crossed over with Fiora in Project X Zone 2 and tons of other characters. She's in tons of stuff and I mean TONS. Her Refrain version (KOS-MOS Re) was even so popular that it allowed T-ELOS to be revitalized into Xeno lore as T-ELOS Re as a gift from Takahashi for completing the game. She was even designed by CHOCO again who also designed KOS-MOS and T-ELOS in Xenosaga. Furthermore, KOS-MOS and T-ELOS have had promotional artwork from Torna the Golden Country.

As you can see, they are together floating above the world tree! Some Xeno theorists such as myself even believe the Alrest artbook shows evidence that KOS-MOS in XB2 is KOS-MOS from Xenosaga!

That's just a sample of what she can do though! I'm not kidding about her abilities. She can conjure guns, scythes, drills, hammers, swords, she's just super badass.

Even though we are debating if this leak is even real and it turns out not to be... I hope more people will still support her Feel free to stop by my support thread if you decide to!