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All I know about LoL is the cool music and I see a load of neat cosplays at cons. Also there's a character named Jinx I think? Also another character, Orianna, who is a cool robot. I love her. Also there's another character who attacks with a big keyboard? And there's a pizza girl????
League of Legends out of context is so bizarre but I can't see myself disliking some of the cooler, weirder characters once I see them play. Plus I have a friend who loves LoL.
Actually, Jinx is one of the top candidates for a League Smash rep imo. She's very popular and very marketable, Riot loves her to death.
Psycho girl with 3 guns for Smash
Orianna is pretty neat, Sona is the girl with the keyboard thing ("Etwahl" a type of harp), and Sivir has a pizza delivery girl skin.
Seriously, there are 144 LoL characters at this point. Tons of them are filled to the brink with unique designs and colorful personalities. I can't really see them going wrong with a League rep in Smash.
Orianna is pretty neat, Sona is the girl with the keyboard thing ("Etwahl" a type of harp), and Sivir has a pizza delivery girl skin.
Seriously, there are 144 LoL characters at this point. Tons of them are filled to the brink with unique designs and colorful personalities. I can't really see them going wrong with a League rep in Smash.
Thanks! I just looked up Sona and I'm laughing. "We have Miku at home." I love her Daft Punk-looking skin. This is a wealth of untapped potential for Smash and you can't tell me that adding the biggest esports game ever would be bad for Smash. Plus I do know that the music is pretty incredible.
I call them novelties for a simple reason. They're young and unproven. What's to say that in 10 years Shovel Knight and Undertale disappear? I'm not saying they will, but look at all the 3rd parties in Smash, they've all withstood the test of time with the arguable exception of Bayonetta at the time of her inclusion (Who really, imo, was put in for other reasons). Both of these franchises should mature first before being in Smash and, imo, that's why they aren't. I said it earlier, Sakurai has never been one to pick character because they are popular here and now. He's always been meticulous and multi-faceted in his decisions. I find their inclusions now to be "Maybe one day it will happen, keep it up and it will. But that day is not today".
Aren't you arguing for Shantae in other posts though? A character that objectively did disappear and didn't even manage to pull off "flash in the pan" status when she first released. Shantae only really returned in 2010 with Risky's Revenge, so almost half of her legacy was as a dead and forgotten character. She's as much of a novelty as any of the other indies you're pushing down only having a couple of years on them with the 2010 release. Shovel Knight has multiple releases under his belt as well (each game operates independently and they have sold individual portions of the game, they're just committed to releasing a ton of it under the "Treasure Trove" moniker). Undertale has an ongoing sequel right now too and the hype surrounding the Sans Mii costume clearly indicates an on-going interest in Undertale.
Like I feel like your argument actively hurts Shantae as much as every other indie pick except for maybe Reimu and Quote, and even then, both of those characters are kind of arbitrarily older than existing characters (I mean it does feel like a bit of a calvin ball as to when this cutoff exists for these characters). Your third party argument doesn't really hold much weight as others have pointed out as well. Joker represents Persona 5 heavily, and the oldest content is from Persona 3 in 2006... so that's not really helpful. Bayonetta exists, and regardless of Nintendo's intent in marketing her, she's still from this same era with only two games, you don't get to ignore her because she doesn't work with your argument. Banjo & Kazooie may be older, but you'd be hard pressed to find people who give a **** about their releases post-2000 (and they hadn't seen a release since 2008 either), so I wouldn't really say they've stood the test of time particularly well and got in due to fan demand mainly, which was something Shovel Knight and Sans both had plenty of.
I could see a monster Hunter character still appearing. It would have made sense for there to be More stuff from the series because of its popularity other than a non character AT/boss and 2 songs, and no Mii costumes
It's really hard to quantify League characters' popularities, there's just so many of them. I'd say the frontrunners would include champs that get a lot of attention and promotion from Riot. I've already said Jinx in my last post, but I can see Riot choosing Lux, Ekko, Ahri, Ezreal, Tristana, Riven, Yasuo, and many more. It's just difficult to choose one from the many that there are because there are tons of potential movesets and artstyles to consider. Characters can range from cute fuzzy people like the Yordle race, eldritch abominations, and borderline anime characters.
Personally, I'd want some of the characters that I main. Vi, Teemo (not really a main anymore but I love him to death), Nautilus, and Wukong would put me through the roof. I can see Vi happening due to her popularity and Teemo because he's a legacy/meme pick, but Nautilus and Wukong are never-evers.
My personal feeling on LoL is that that game caused my brother to no longer want to play Smash with me, all he plays is LoL now. He even told me he "doesn't really play games anymore" with the sole exception of LoL. As a result, since most of my friends are online and in different time zones (making it inconvenient for us to play Smash together whenever any of us is up to it), I resent LoL for taking away the person who would otherwise want to consistently play with me.
However, if a LoL character made it into Smash, he may want to play Smash with me again, and then I could play the game more often. So I'm up for a LoL character if that's what it takes.
It's really hard to quantify League characters' popularities, there's just so many of them. I'd say the frontrunners would include champs that get a lot of attention and promotion from Riot. I've already said Jinx in my last post, but I can see Riot choosing Lux, Ekko, Ahri, Ezreal, Tristana, Riven, Yasuo, and many more. It's just difficult to choose one from the many that there are because there are tons of potential movesets and artstyles to consider. Characters can range from cute fuzzy people like the Yordle race, eldritch abominations, and borderline anime characters.
Personally, I'd want some of the characters that I main. Vi, Teemo (not really a main anymore but I love him to death), Nautilus, and Wukong would put me through the roof. I can see Vi happening due to her popularity and Teemo because he's a legacy/meme pick, but Nautilus and Wukong are never-evers.
I fully agree. While I might be a Dota 2 guy myself, LoL has loads of instantly recognizeable characters that can work. It's probably due to LoL's design philosophy of "Every character fills a specific role, thus we know what this character does at a glance".
Thanks! I just looked up Sona and I'm laughing. "We have Miku at home." I love her Daft Punk-looking skin. This is a wealth of untapped potential for Smash and you can't tell me that adding the biggest esports game ever would be bad for Smash. Plus I do know that the music is pretty incredible.
Oh yes there's loads of untapped potential here. Again, we have no idea where Sakurai leans on this, but both LoL's and Dota 2's creators are very much positive to Nintendo - so it'd be a matter of Sakurai or Nintendo approaching them.
It's also a matter of which MOBA gets to the Switch first. It'd be a bit less jarring to see one of those games at least have something on a Nintendo platform after all. To get back to 3BitSaurus, nope we don't have any further info on Riot's fighting game. It's fully possible that it gets to the Switch given who develops it, but from the lack of info it will take time. Dota 2 has an advantage here - their spin off Dota Underlords is currently on a rapid beta on computers and iOS / Android. Underlords' main dev has outright said that they'll consider other platforms after release (my estimate is around November-December). And the Switch could fit that game perfectly.
Alternatively, I can imagine Nintendo adding more than 8 palette swaps/costumes for each character. Paid or otherwise, I highly doubt the number is staying at 8 for everyone. Regardless, delaying Jane's reveal in Smash makes sense; we know so little about her role in P5, and she can be used as cross-promotion for both Smash and Persona.
I'd love for them to come up with a costume editor that allowed us to make 8 more alternate colors for each character. Players could bring back Fire Mario and Black Yoshi, make pallet swaps of your favorite Koopaling (or Bowser Jr.), or turn Cloud into a brunette because why not? If they wanted to they could also allow you to share these pallet swaps. I'd love to see what cool colors everyone chooses for each character. (I personally would make a black Pikachu with electric blue highlights.)
My number one choice for an Indie Fighter is still Cuphead. That game was a ****ing masterpiece and a vision that started between two brothers. He has an iconic artstyle, plenty of moveset inspiration, and the game is just coming up on two years since its initial release. (Only having been ported to Switch in April of this year.)
I'm curious how the people here would feel about this First Party fighters pass I made
Fighter 1: GROVYLE Gears Up!
While we have quite a few Pokemon, Grovyle brings something entirely new to the table: Mystery Dungeon representation. He uses various items from across the series, along with help from Celebi. His stage is the Temporal Tower, and he comes with various spirits and songs from the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games.
Fighter 2: ANDY Advances!
From the Advance Wars series, Andy joins the battle! Using various battalions, he controls the stage like no other. Blue Moon is the stage, and various songs and spirits from the series are added.
Fighter 3: ELMA Crosses Over!
From Xenoblade Chrohnicles X, Elma joins the battle. Using her Guns, Swords, and Skell, she provides a moveset very unique. New LA is the stage, and various Xenoblade spirits and songs that were left out in the base game are added (largely from X). Half of her alts use her "true" form.
Fighter 4: BANDANA DEE Waddles In!
Our Star Ally finally gets his prize! He uses a spear and a parasol, both of which can be imbued with various elements! Another Dimension is the stage, and various Kirby songs and spirits that wren't the base game are added, with a preference toward those that debuted in or after the Super Star Remake.
Fighter 5: CHORUS KIDS make some noise!
The final fighters of the pass are the Chorus Kids. Using multi-hit attacks that get exponentially more powerful if hit to the rhythm, they play completely different than any other fighter. Their stage is a WarioWare Inc.-styled thing where different Rhythm Heaven characters appear and subject fighters to their minigames. Various Rythym Heavean songs and spirits that weren't in the base game are added, and all the old Rhythm Heaven songs are transferred exclusively to the new one.
The bonus for buying the pass is a Mii Brawler costume of Kyo Kusanagi from the King of Fighters franchise. If you have both passes purchaced, you get an Assist Trophy and Mii Costume (Swordfighter) of Torneqo, the main character of Dragon Quest Mystery Dungeon
Grovyle: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is a beloved spin-off series with absolutly no representation in Smash. Grovyle would provide this in spades, while also partially pleasing those that want a Hoenn Pokemon or a Grass type Starter. also bias
Andy: Advance Wars is a fan-favorite series that's been gone for a very long time. The Infantry and Tanks assist trophy is gone, leaving Advance Wars practically unrepresented in Smash. Adding Andy would give the series some representation, and put it back in the eyes of the public, which could lead into a re-boot.
Elma: Xenoblade, despite it's youth, has proven to be an immencely popular franchise, making a second fighter very much justified. I considered Rex, but I figured adding Elma would enhance the balance of the series' content, as XB2 has significantly more content than X.
Bandana Dee: Simmilar to , I wanted to add a character popular in the core fanbase. Waluigi and issac are Assist Trophies, which would be a whole different pass, and Geno is technically a third party, leaving Bandana Dee. also bias.
Chorus Kids: Rythym Heaven is arguably the biggest Nintendo series not represented in Smash, meaning that giving it a character is a no-brainier. Karate Joe would be a good choice, but the Chorus Kids are more popular in the fanbase and are more distinct.
Some characters I considered putting on the pass were Byleth, Edlegard, Rex, Qbby, an ARMS character, Fawful, and Kamek.
I call them novelties for a simple reason. They're young and unproven. What's to say that in 10 years Shovel Knight and Undertale disappear? I'm not saying they will, but look at all the 3rd parties in Smash, they've all withstood the test of time with the arguable exception of Bayonetta at the time of her inclusion (Who really, imo, was put in for other reasons). Both of these franchises should mature first before being in Smash and, imo, that's why they aren't. I said it earlier, Sakurai has never been one to pick character because they are popular here and now. He's always been meticulous and multi-faceted in his decisions. I find their inclusions now to be "Maybe one day it will happen, keep it up and it will. But that day is not today".
I think the fact that those games are still being talked about 4/5 years later is a good indication that they’ll be popular in the long run. Especially with sequels/spin-offs in development for both series.
That’s a lot more than the vast majority of indie games & even some AAA series.
Alright, I'm gonna type up some posts for my most wanted League characters. First up is Vi, the Piltover Enforcer.
“We can either do this the hard way or… Oh wait, no. There's just the hard way.” ~ Vi
"Once a criminal from the mean streets of Zaun, Vi is a hotheaded, impulsive, and fearsome woman with only a very loose respect for authority figures. Growing up all but alone, Vi developed finely honed survival instincts as well as a wickedly abrasive sense of humor. Now working with the Wardens to keep the peace in Piltover, she wields mighty hextech gauntlets that can punch through walls—and suspects—with equal ease."
-LoL Universe page
Vi's a police officer who leans very heavily into the "bad cop" side. With her Hextech (a mix between magic and technology) gauntlets her punches are essentially rocket-powered and she has no problem fighting rough with criminals.
Vi would strictly be a melee character since her entire shtick is punching people. She can store punches to deal more damage with an attack, break the enemy's armor to deal more damage to them, generate a shield when she hits people, and most notably have mobility by charging her gauntlets to push her in a certain direction.
Here's a more visual representation of what Vi can do.
Blast Shield: Vi charges a shield over time. The shield can be activated by hitting an enemy with an ability.
Vault Breaker: Vi charges her gauntlets and unleashes a vault shattering punch, carrying her forward. Enemies she hits are knocked back and receive a stack of Denting Blows.
Denting Blows: Vi's punches break her opponent's Armor, dealing bonus damage and granting her Attack Speed. Triggering Denting Blows reduces the cooldown of Blast Shield by 3 seconds.
Excessive Force: Vi's next attack blasts through her target, dealing damage to enemies behind it. Vi charges a new punch every few seconds and can hold 2 charges at once.
Assault and Battery: Vi runs down an enemy, knocking aside anyone in the way. When she reaches her target she knocks it into the air, jumps after it, and slams it back into the ground.
Specials:
Neutral B: Sends out an Excessive Force punch which sends out a shockwave, if her punch directly connects with an opponent then they take more damage than the shockwave. She can store up to 2 charges at a time and since it's an ability (special) it'll proc Blast Shield if it's ready. Excessive Force can be used to cancel other moves, reminiscent of canceling auto-attacks in LoL with the move.
Side B: Hold to charge Vault Breaker whilst moving either left or right at a reduced speed. Vi will dash with a punch and collide with any opponents she hits when Side B is released or after a couple of seconds. This move gives Vi a relatively high armor and both the damage and range scale as the move charges. A full charge is 1.25 seconds but Vi can still hold onto the move before dashing for a little bit.
Up B: Since there's no mouse in Smash to click on characters to lock onto with Assault and Battery, Vi will travel varying horizontal distance before traveling up and then down with a slam. Vi can travel a long distance, pushing enemies out of the way and then going up and down or travel a short distance and sooner going up and down depending on when she reactivates Assault and Battery. Opponents will be caught in Vi going up and down like Ike and Chrom's Aether and Soaring Slash (yes, it can also suicide spike offstage). While Assault and Battery makes Vi unable to be stopped in League, super armor linked directly with a recovery would be broken but a similar function and flavor can be kept with the active of Down B.
Down B:
Passive: Every time Vi hits an enemy with an attack, she applies a stack of Denting Blows. After setting 3 stacks of Denting Blows on an enemy their armor breaks and they take increased damage. Vi also gets For balancing, a character loses their stacks of denting blows after a couple of seconds or if they hit Vi. Vi getting a full amount of Denting Blows grants her increased Attack Speed for a couple of seconds, decreasing the startup and ending lag on her normals.
Active: Vi activates a shield for a few seconds that soaks up a minor amount of damage and grants Vi armor. It takes a few dozen seconds for this move to charge after use. Landing 3 stacks of Denting Blows will decrease the cooldown of this ability by a bit.
Normals: I don't feel like typing all of this up. If Hero can be one of the most unique characters on the roster with mostly uninspired sword normals, then I'm sure Vi can get by with moves similar to other melee characters. Also, people don't seem to care if non-sword wielding characters share moves :kappa:. Who knows, maybe Sakurai has some unique normals for a punching character up his sleeve. Essentially, she's going to want to punch fast and hard, but she might leave herself open since she's not afraid of getting into the fray.
Vi's gameplay would be like how Bruisers play in League, characters who can both give and take a punch. She's gonna want to give the opponent a beatdown but her Blast Shield and above-average weight would giver her sustainability throughout the match.
Extra stuff:
Final Smash: Vi dashes forward and stuns an enemy on collision. With this, she summons her girlfriend police partner Catherine who locks onto the enemy with her sniper rifle and delivers a "Headshot!".
Alts:
Neon Strike Vi
Officer Vi
Debonair Vi
Demon Vi
Warring Kingdoms Vi
PROJECT: Vi
Heartbreaker Vi
Now the question is that would Vi make it into Smash? That's up to Riot, to choose a character to put in if Sakurai asks for a LoL character. Fortunately, Vi has been around for quite some time now (at least 6 years) and she's been proven to be quite popular despite the dozens of other character put into League. Vi has multiple skins and consistently gets (proving that Riot deems her marketable and popular enough to sell these skins) and she even has her own bit of physical merch. Vi is also seen on promotional art still used for League today, extending her relevance. Vi is definitely one of the characters Riot would want to choose for Smash.
(Edit): How can I forget, the music! Along with other League tracks that would be awesome, Vi would bring her Login Screen music!
Hopefully, this can bring some attention to potential League characters. Vi for Smash!
I'm curious how the people here would feel about this First Party fighters pass I made View attachment 239916
Fighter 1: GROVYLE Gears Up!
While we have quite a few Pokemon, Grovyle brings something entirely new to the table: Mystery Dungeon representation. He uses various items from across the series, along with help from Celebi. His stage is the Temporal Tower, and he comes with various spirits and songs from the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games.
Fighter 2: ANDY Advances!
From the Advance Wars series, Andy joins the battle! Using various battalions, he controls the stage like no other. Blue Moon is the stage, and various songs and spirits from the series are added.
Fighter 3: ELMA Crosses Over!
From Xenoblade Chrohnicles X, Elma joins the battle. Using her Guns, Swords, and Skell, she provides a moveset very unique. New LA is the stage, and various Xenoblade spirits and songs that were left out in the base game are added (largely from X). Half of her alts use her "true" form.
Fighter 4: BANDANA DEE Waddles In!
Our Star Ally finally gets his prize! He uses a spear and a parasol, both of which can be imbued with various elements! Another Dimension is the stage, and various Kirby songs and spirits that wren't the base game are added, with a preference toward those that debuted in or after the Super Star Remake.
Fighter 5: CHORUS KIDS make some noise!
The final fighters of the pass are the Chorus Kids. Using multi-hit attacks that get exponentially more powerful if hit to the rhythm, they play completely different than any other fighter. Their stage is a WarioWare Inc.-styled thing where different Rhythm Heaven characters appear and subject fighters to their minigames. Various Rythym Heavean songs and spirits that weren't in the base game are added, and all the old Rhythm Heaven songs are transferred exclusively to the new one.
The bonus for buying the pass is a Mii Brawler costume of Kyo Kusanagi from the King of Fighters franchise. If you have both passes purchaced, you get an Assist Trophy and Mii Costume (Swordfighter) of Torneqo, the main character of Dragon Quest Mystery Dungeon
Grovyle: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is a beloved spin-off series with absolutly no representation in Smash. Grovyle would provide this in spades, while also partially pleasing those that want a Hoenn Pokemon or a Grass type Starter. also bias
Andy: Advance Wars is a fan-favorite series that's been gone for a very long time. The Infantry and Tanks assist trophy is gone, leaving Advance Wars practically unrepresented in Smash. Adding Andy would give the series some representation, and put it back in the eyes of the public, which could lead into a re-boot.
Elma: Xenoblade, despite it's youth, has proven to be an immencely popular franchise, making a second fighter very much justified. I considered Rex, but I figured adding Elma would enhance the balance of the series' content, as XB2 has significantly more content than X.
Bandana Dee: Simmilar to , I wanted to add a character popular in the core fanbase. Waluigi and issac are Assist Trophies, which would be a whole different pass, and Geno is technically a third party, leaving Bandana Dee. also bias.
Chorus Kids: Rythym Heaven is arguably the biggest Nintendo series not represented in Smash, meaning that giving it a character is a no-brainier. Karate Joe would be a good choice, but the Chorus Kids are more popular in the fanbase and are more distinct.
Some characters I considered putting on the pass were Byleth, Edlegard, Rex, Qbby, an ARMS character, Fawful, and Kamek.
I like this a lot. I would personally want Isaac more than anything else 1st party but given that you weren’t considering assist trophies the only glaring omission to me is Dixie Kong. Personally I’d like another Zelda character as well, but honestly I like all the choices.
Well, I'm sold on Vi already. I look forward to further posts because I can already see that between active and passive abilities and a cool down mechanic plus badass designs and lore a LoL character might be a potential sleeper and a cool one at that. Great stuff!
Sorry guys who like League of Legends but MOBAs like LoL and DOTA 2 are some of the very few games I am confident in completely writing their chances off. If Smash can't even be bothered to reference any of the mobile games Nintendo own with actual Spirits, only giving FE Heroes one measly remix made by a composer with acknowledged FE bias and giving mobile phenomenon Pokemon Go absolutelynothing, I think people expecting any game/franchise that is relevant predominantly in the mobile or PC spaces (the latter of which Nintendo doesn't even exist in) to receive representation is setting their expectations way too high even considering the surprising DLC picks we already received.
Sorry guys who like League of Legends but MOBAs like LoL and DOTA 2 are some of the very few games I am confident in completely writing their chances off. If Smash can't even be bothered to reference any of the mobile games Nintendo own with actual Spirits, only giving FE Heroes one measly remix made by a composer with acknowledged FE bias and giving mobile phenomenon Pokemon Go absolutelynothing, I think people expecting any game/franchise that is relevant predominantly in the mobile or PC spaces (the latter of which Nintendo doesn't even exist in) to receive representation is setting their expectations way too high even considering the surprising DLC picks we already received.
Go got nothing because Nintendo itself is even less involved with it than it is with mainline Pokémon. It's the same reason we don't have any Mystery Dungeon content.
It has literally nothing to do with mobile games. That and I have no clue what that has to do with League.
The issue is that they want each fighter to be a surprise on their own rather than splitting the hype between each fighter. Hints would cause certain fighters to seem inevitable, which only serves to stir up hostility from people who don't particularly care for the character. And silhouettes would be the same as revealing the fighter unless they do it at a dumb angle that no one can really say definitively that the silhouette belongs to anyone.
I'd love for them to come up with a costume editor that allowed us to make 8 more alternate colors for each character. Players could bring back Fire Mario and Black Yoshi, make pallet swaps of your favorite Koopaling (or Bowser Jr.), or turn Cloud into a brunette because why not? If they wanted to they could also allow you to share these pallet swaps. I'd love to see what cool colors everyone chooses for each character. (I personally would make a black Pikachu with electric blue highlights.)
I always wanted a color editor in Smash. KoF always had them in their games, and for a modern example with 3D models, Street Fighter x Tekken had one, too. I'd color character's outfits to reference ones from other games, movies, etc.
It'd be a cool mode to bundle with a Style Savvy rep.
I'd only be fine with silhouettes so long as they're handled in the same way as Injustice 2 did: completely honest about the characters' looks outside of maybe who's actually in disguise.
Imagine the silhouette theories, too. The whole thing would've been like Who's that Pokemon, but in total chaos.
I always wanted a color editor in Smash. KoF always had them in their games, and for a modern example with 3D models, Street Fighter x Tekken had one, too. I'd color character's outfits to reference ones from other games, movies, etc.
It'd be a cool mode to bundle with a Style Savvy rep.
Rivals of aether has a sick custom skin editor. It would be so cool if smash had one too. Granted, it would probably come with restrictions too (only available offline/private games, not a full character editor like roa, just color editing, etc)
Sorry guys who like League of Legends but MOBAs like LoL and DOTA 2 are some of the very few games I am confident in completely writing their chances off. If Smash can't even be bothered to reference any of the mobile games Nintendo own with actual Spirits, only giving FE Heroes one measly remix made by a composer with acknowledged FE bias and giving mobile phenomenon Pokemon Go absolutelynothing, I think people expecting any game/franchise that is relevant predominantly in the mobile or PC spaces (the latter of which Nintendo doesn't even exist in) to receive representation is setting their expectations way too high even considering the surprising DLC picks we already received.
Switch has MOBAs on it though and games close to it (see: Overwatch). And not having spirits in the base game doesn't mean much when they're adding them post-launch. A mobile game like Dragalia Lost has a legitimate chance, for example. It might happen; it might not. Regardless, it'd be a good way to expand the game's audience.
Silhouettes are dumb. They're either angled stupidly to the point where it won't matter or they are very easy to figure out. It happened with Blazblue Crosstag Battle. The original DLC characters were revealed this way and were eventually figured out before the game released. While it was fun trying to figure out (I remember finding Labrys and Platinum (Though, Platinum may have been revealed officially by that point) during the original discussions), it ultimately just became a waiting game when they were figured out and then the game was datamined proving it all.
Do wanna note that a suitable sprite for Kanji was never found, but by the time work started on figuring out the silhouettes he had already been revealed.
Do you think there could be examples of games of say, a certain genre, and whether Nintendo would be more likely to take from their own equivalent or a third party's?
Depends how broad we want to go? The bullet hell genre is tricky because Touhou is the only one I can think of that is as personality driven as it is. But if we can go broad and expand out to general shoot 'em ups; Contra, Ikari Warriors and Metal Slug all have more mainstream appeal than Touhou. And if we have to do bullet hell shooters the Treasure duology of Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga again hold far more mainstream appeal.
Yes but just because a game sold millions of copies doesn't mean it's all that relevant in today's standards, and I'd say Touhou currently has cult status in general while Golden Sun and Mach Rider aren't relevant at all outside of Smash.
Right, but the Smash community is bigger than the Touhou community. No matter how you cut it, Smash Ultimate currently sits in 14 million hands. People who are invested in Nintendo's history and games. The simple virtue of that makes any 1st party character less niche than Touhou. Are they more relevant? Almost certainly not, Touhou is an ongoing franchise that matters to people. But I'd also guarantee that the Smash community discussing a character like Isaac is more widespread than the Touhou community is, no matter how passionate they are.
The argument isn't about demand or first/third party. It's about how "niche" the series is.
Granted, niche is a subjective term, and I feel like it is and has been thrown around rather liberally around these parts.
Is this really the hill you want to die on? Because we're talking about a game series that defined the entire bullet hell genre.
If you've played a bullet hell game, you've played some variation of Touhou.
So you're arguing semantics?
Because myself and others here would argue that discussion and overall impact certainly denote whether a series is niche or not.
Bullet hell is 1000x more niche than any JRPG. So if you're asking if the hill I want to die on is JRPGs being less niche than bullet hell, then the answer is yes.
But fine, let's not argue semantics. What is the overall impact of Touhou on gaming? People keep saying this, and the closest thing I have to a concrete answer is the influence it has had on Undertale. People keep on saying nebulous statements, but I see nothing to make me think that Touhou has actually impacted video games in any significant way or that the fanbase of the actual games is more than a half million people. And when it come to DLC picks, that really, really does not cut it.
Especially when we're talking about a franchise where the official games have literally never been translated outside of Japan and the creator is notoriously hesitant to work with corporations and would rather rely on his fans.
Touhou fans who like Smash are next level when it comes to the content they create for it:
Sakurai probably ran into stuff like this browsing the internet more than we think. I... wouldn't count it out one day, to be honest. Maybe a Mii costume with a song?
Uh, guys, we were jokingly quoting each other from super old conversations, but it turned serious? Welp.
The palette swap thing was a good topic though.
Switch has MOBAs on it though and games close to it (see: Overwatch). And not having spirits in the base game doesn't mean much when they're adding them post-launch. A mobile game like Dragalia Lost has a legitimate chance, for example. It might happen; it might not. Regardless, it'd be a good way to expand the game's audience.
Euden is unironically one of my biggest wants. He could have a super cool moveset based on buffing himself and debuffing enemies alongside taking elements from Roy's explosive offensive and Corrin's technical changing into a dragon.
Or he could literally just have the dragon meter and it works like Joker's Arsene except he can control when to change. Either way I'd love to see him.
Euden is unironically one of my biggest wants. He could have a super cool moveset based on buffing himself and debuffing enemies alongside taking elements from Roy's explosive offensive and Corrin's technical changing into a dragon.
Or he could literally just have the dragon meter and it works like Joker's Arsene except he can control when to change. Either way I'd love to see him.
Touhou fandom and Smash fandom are not overlapping much as people say.
I think that is a very good reasoning for smash invitational.
People already forgetting Furukawa's words soon after that Hat Ken ****storm.
Touhou fandom and Smash fandom are not overlapping much as people say.
I think that is a very good reasoning for smash invitational.
People already forgetting Furukawa's words soon after that Hat Ken ****storm.
You mean where he said that "Smash is the ultimate collaborative title"? Cause I definitely didn't forget that in-fact I'm willing to bet all we'll be getting is 3rd party characters and no 1st parties or Assist upgrades only more of the same.
Sorry guys who like League of Legends but MOBAs like LoL and DOTA 2 are some of the very few games I am confident in completely writing their chances off. If Smash can't even be bothered to reference any of the mobile games Nintendo own with actual Spirits, only giving FE Heroes one measly remix made by a composer with acknowledged FE bias and giving mobile phenomenon Pokemon Go absolutelynothing, I think people expecting any game/franchise that is relevant predominantly in the mobile or PC spaces (the latter of which Nintendo doesn't even exist in) to receive representation is setting their expectations way too high even considering the surprising DLC picks we already received.
Nintendo’s mobile plan when it comes to existing franchises is making supplementary experiences to the mainline games on Nintendo systems. FEH and PoGo don’t need Spirits because they’re just there to help out the FE and Pokemon franchises. The fact that FEH got a remix isn’t measly, it’s quite the accomplishment considering the Tellius games haven’t gotten remixes after Ike being in Smash for 3 games.
Also, writing off PC gaming is just bad speculation. There’s a first for everything, and if Sakurai really wants to make Ultimate represent gaming itself as much as possible then a PC gaming rep would definitely fall under that.
Also, writing off PC gaming is just bad speculation. There’s a first for everything, and if Sakurai really wants to make Ultimate represent gaming itself as much as possible then a PC gaming rep would definitely fall under that.
You guys seem to be forgetting this is Smash speculation, where arbitrary fan rules and disqualifications are handed out like participation medals during an elementary school field day.
If I don't know about or like it, there's no way it can get in my funny character party game.
You mean where he said that "Smash is the ultimate collaborative title"? Cause I definitely didn't forget that in-fact I'm willing to bet all we'll be getting is 3rd party characters and no 1st parties or Assist upgrades only more of the same.
Q13:
I'd like to hear about the future of your big hit titles released during October to December last year. The initial response was extremely strong, but will that be met with a drop in sales momentum? Or will the strength of that initial momentum on release help download sales and purchases based on word-of-mouth to grow, resulting in a net positive effect on future sales?
A13:
Satoru Shibata (Director, Senior Executive Officer): We feel very fortunate that the initial sales pace for Super Mario Party, Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu!/Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee!,and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has been so strong. However, that doesn't exactly mean we're satisfied. Before their release, we challenged ourselves to see how we could expand our consumer base with each of these titles. For Super Mario Party, the question was “How could we reach people other than children and parents?” With Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu!/Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee!, we asked “How could we reach people who had played Pokémon GO, for example, but never played Nintendo Switch?” With Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, we asked “How could we reach not only fans of the Super SmashBros. series, but also those who had never played it before?” If you look at the demographics of the consumers who purchased each of these titles, Iʼm not convinced weʼve completely overcome these challenges yet. So our aims are to keep working on them this year, to expand sales of these titles to new consumer demographics, and to keep selling these games for a long time, which is one of our strengths.
The sacred words that people so oft forget. I feel that the phrases "those who had never played it before" and "demographics of the consumers" are specifically forgotten, or rather, ignored.
At this rate history will only repeat itself. You'd figure we'd learn by now.
Yeah that makes sense and they're doing it already with Hero = Japan, Banjo = America, Terry = Latin-America and places like that, Etc. I can definitely see that happening again and that's great more sales for Smash it makes financial business sense from Nintendo's point of view.
On a different note though at least they also mentioned appeasing the fans of Smash which gives me hope for characters I want like Geno.. Not really though cause that could mean a million different characters..
You guys seem to be forgetting this is Smash speculation, where arbitrary fan rules and disqualifications are handed out like participation medals during an elementary school field day.
If I don't know about or like it, there's no way it can get in my funny character party game.
Go got nothing because Nintendo itself is even less involved with it than it is with mainline Pokémon. It's the same reason we don't have any Mystery Dungeon content.
It has literally nothing to do with mobile games. That and I have no clue what that has to do with League.
I simply don't think Sakurai has interest in acknowledging stuff in the mobile or PC spheres. Why else do you think Fire Emblem Heroes or Dragalia Lost haven't been acknowledged in Smash anywhere beyond a remix where Sakurai stated he let the composers chose whatever they pleased.
I love her Daft Punk-looking skin. This is a wealth of untapped potential for Smash and you can't tell me that adding the biggest esports game ever would be bad for Smash. Plus I do know that the music is pretty incredible.
, I wanted to add a character popular in the core fanbase. Waluigi and issac are Assist Trophies, which would be a whole different pass, and Geno is technically a third party, leaving Bandana Dee. 
