Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[OrpheusTelos]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So here's something interesting regarding Steve. Apparently the new Minecraft update is adding emotes, which kinda kills the argument that Steve wouldn't have enough personality to be in Smash. I always thought that was a bull**** excuse considering you can apply the same statement to literally any avatar character, but at the very least it shows that the character can still be expressive.

Even if we don't get Steve, I'm expecting Minecraft content in some form to be in Smash. It and Resident Evil are pretty much two of the biggest gaming juggernauts to not have any content in Smash, so I wouldn't be surprised if it got something.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm remembering why I considered you an idiot.

That wasn't really nice or called for at all, but okay. You do you man. Sorry I made a joke.

 

[Impa4Smash]

View attachment 240006

That wasn't really nice or called for at all, but okay. You do you man. Sorry I made a joke.

Stuff like that is why Jeb Bush never had a chance.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So here's something interesting regarding Steve. Apparently the new Minecraft update is adding emotes, which kinda kills the argument that Steve wouldn't have enough personality to be in Smash. I always thought that was a bull**** excuse considering you can apply the same statement to literally any avatar character, but at the very least it shows that the character can still be expressive.

Despite the fact that those emotes don't actually contain any expressions...

 

[Roberk]

I'm remembering why I considered you an idiot.


I simply don't think Sakurai has interest in acknowledging stuff in the mobile or PC spheres. Why else do you think Fire Emblem Heroes or Dragalia Lost haven't been acknowledged in Smash anywhere beyond a remix where Sakurai stated he let the composers chose whatever they pleased.

You keep on bringing up FEH and DL, so sure, let's talk about it.
1) FEH getting a remix is more than the hundreds of other games with characters in Smash that don't get remixes. Also, just because Sakurai let composers choose whatever they want for remixes doesn't mean they're going to try to remix some damn mobile spin-off game music. FEH has some bangers but it's not like they're begging to be put in Smash or remixed over the dozens of mainline FE songs that better represent the series and actually need remixes.

2) DL came out on September 27, 2018. It was simply too late to be put into the base game of Smash. Similarly, look at XC2: Torna the Golden Country. That game was prime material for getting Spirits and music but it didn't get any unlike the XC2 base game because it came out in September, too late for Smash. DL even got a crossover with FEH back in April, but it was one-sided with only the FEH event within DL. It seems like Nintendo is currently not interested in including DL in their other properties which is fair considering it's an original mobile game also owned/developed by Cygames.


This mobile stuff has nothing to do with PC gaming. They're fields that Smash hasn't crossed over with before, that's it. They're entirely different beasts when it comes to content and market. Ignoring PC gaming is ignoring one of the biggest parts of gaming as a whole. Huge companies with iconic and revolutionary games like Riot, Valve, Blizzard, etc. are all primarily PC focused. PC gaming is a huge proprietor of Esports, something that even Nintendo is trying to get into now. I find it highly unlikely that Sakurai is trying to make Smash Ultimate a museum of the gaming industry whilst ignoring a part that's pretty much just as important as consoles in many ways.

 

[Aetheri]

I think one of the reasons why Smash has little PC and mobile content is largely due to the fact that Nintendo does almost nothing with PC except dmca fan games. And Nintendo only recently started doing stuff on mobile and while it may be doing well for them it's still pretty new.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

View attachment 240011
This mobile stuff has nothing to do with PC gaming. Their fields that Smash hasn't crossed over with before, that's it. They're entirely different beasts when it comes to content and market. Ignoring PC gaming is ignoring one of the biggest parts of gaming as a whole. Huge companies with iconic and revolutionary games like Riot, Valve, Blizzard, etc. are all primarily PC focused. PC gaming is a huge proprietor of Esports, something that even Nintendo is trying to get into now. I find it highly unlikely that Sakurai is trying to make Smash Ultimate a museum of the gaming industry whilst ignoring a part that's pretty much just as important as consoles in many ways.

There's also the fact that Sakurai has talked about PC gaming at least twice, if not more in his Famitsu column (it's probably more given how little columns are translated). He specifically talked about Half Life 2 as far back as 2004, and talking about prominent PC developer John Carmack in his 2016 interview with Normura. In it he also states the following:

As a generation, a lot of us were directly impacted by the dawn of the PC and the home gaming console.

PC gaming is something very much in Sakurai's mind, and I don't believe it's out of the realm of possibilities for Ultimate DLC.

 

[VashTehStampede]

Was talking it over with some friends and man, if Lloyd get's in this would probably be my top pick for a song inclusion. It's so good!
https://youtu.be/WG3QgQCXyUo

 

[TheCJBrine]

Despite the fact that those emotes don't actually contain any expressions...

Like Mr. Game & Watch’s single expression pre-Ultimate (and now he’s an amalgamation of different characters from Game & Watch games).

Or R.O.B.

At least Steve can blink and body language shows personality + Minecraft: Dungeons has expressions and they could make his eyes wide when taking a big hit and make them squint in other situations.

(and technically some official things already give Steve and Alex at least a bit of personality)

 

[ZelDan]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So here's something interesting regarding Steve. Apparently the new Minecraft update is adding emotes, which kinda kills the argument that Steve wouldn't have enough personality to be in Smash. I always thought that was a bull**** excuse considering you can apply the same statement to literally any avatar character, but at the very least it shows that the character can still be expressive.

Even if we don't get Steve, I'm expecting Minecraft content in some form to be in Smash. It and Resident Evil are pretty much two of the biggest gaming juggernauts to not have any content in Smash, so I wouldn't be surprised if it got something.

Eh, Minecraft Steve definitely could be argued to have less compared to the avatars that did get into Smash.

Robin and Corrin do actually have dialogue and backstories. Steve does not, or not to the extent these 2 do atleast.

The Link's and animal crossing characters have had facial expressions (especially WW Link), and the Links also had and grunts, Something that minecraft avatars lack both of, and still do lack even after this update from what I can tell.

Inklings had their gibberish talk (WOOMY!), whereas I don't recall Steve having any sort of voicework.

That's the thing for me, all the avatar characters that are in Smash had something that gave them some charm or made them endearing. This new update gives minecraft avatar a bit more I guess, but even then it still doesn't really do much for me considering the avatar's face has no expression at all when doing the emotes, and it's not like Minecraft avatars weren't able to move their arms and legs before anyways.

 

[osby]

What's the point of a League of Legends fighter if it's not K/DA?

Eh, Minecraft Steve definitely could be argued to have less compared to the avatars that did get into Smash.

Robin and Corrin do actually have dialogue and backstories. Steve does not, or not to the extent these 2 do atleast.

The Link's and animal crossing characters have had facial expressions (especially WW Link), and the Links also had and grunts, Something that minecraft avatars lack both of, and still do lack even after this update from what I can tell.

Inklings had their gibberish talk (WOOMY!), whereas I don't recall Steve having any sort of voicework.

That's the thing for me, all the avatar characters that are in Smash had something that gave them some charm or made them endearing. This new update gives minecraft avatar a bit more I guess, but even then it still doesn't really do much for me considering the avatar's face has no expression at all when doing the emotes, and it's not like Minecraft avatars weren't able to move their arms and legs before anyways.

If we can get Samus in Smash with no issues, Steve's lack of expressions or voice shouldn't be a problem.

 

[TheCJBrine]

While the argument is stupid and is just gatekeeping due to selfishness anyway, plus there are already characters with no expression, here are things that give Steve and Alex at least a bit of personality:

-emotes

-The official animation that was used at least one time in today’s Minecon as a sort-of transition, showing Steve and Alex seeming to talk to each other/nod at each other before flying off with their elytra

-The Village & Pillage update’s trailer showing Alex happy in the new village before preparing to fight the invading pillagers and save the villagers

-While I’m not sure Mojang has commented on it (though I assume it’d need approval), the June-August 2016 issue of the Lego Club magazine showed Steve’s and Alex’s main interests; Steve being a builder, miner, and alchemist, while Alex is a builder, hunter, and explorer; it also said Steve was Alex’s boyfriend

-I don’t know, I’m just spitballing here, uh...how about Minecraft: Dungeons!

I swear people would complain about Villager if he wasn’t already in.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

The Steve expression argument ultimately comes down to whether you believe expression can be achieved with just gestures.

Personally I think gestures can more than suffice given the potency of nonverbal communication over verbal communication, but facial expression is an important part of nonverbal communication, so I can see why others would argue that gestures on their own don't suffice.

If we can get Samus in Smash with no issues, Steve's lack of expressions or voice shouldn't be a problem.

ok osby just destroy my nice little argument wowee thank u very much

 

[Roberk]

What's the point of a League of Legends fighter if it's not K/DA?



If we can get Samus in Smash with no issues, Steve's lack of expressions or voice shouldn't be a problem.

> 266,559,375 views •Nov 3, 2018
Holy **** K/DA was such a hit. Akali for Smash?

 

[Aetheri]

This is what I have to say regarding Steve's lack of expression for Smash.

. . .

 

[ZelDan]

What's the point of a League of Legends fighter if it's not K/DA?



If we can get Samus in Smash with no issues, Steve's lack of expressions or voice shouldn't be a problem.

Samus wasn't originally given such things in Smash at first, I'll give you that, she did technically have them in her own games where you could see her smiling if you beat the game fast enough. That and by the time Smash was a thing she already did have a bit of a of story to her. By that time we already saw her build a relationship with the baby metroid between Metroid 2 and Super.

Samus would only later get more backstory and character to her in later games.

I guess I'll also add that Steve's lack of personality isn't exactly the only issue I have, but his character design as well or his animations. His very blocky look just doesn't look appealing to me and his animations are incredibly basic (or were before the update anyways). Compared to Samus's design where she's a bounty Hunter in alien power armor and how she is acrobatic and spin around in the air, Samus has more going for than Steve.

 

[osby]

Samus wasn't originally given such things in Smash at first, I'll give you that, she did technically have them in her own games where you could see her smiling if you beat the game fast enough. That and by the time Smash was a thing she already did have a bit of a of story to her. By that time we already saw her build a relationship with the baby metroid between Metroid 2 and Super.

Samus would only later get more backstory and character to her in later games

True, look how much of 's popularity comes from his deep characterization and intricate backstory.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't have a problem with Steve per se, not in the general terms of playability, but I think he's one of the ugliest characters I've ever seen. Does that mean I think he shouldn't get in? Definitely not but if he does I do want them to update him so he doesn't stick out like a corn stock in a field of flowers.

 

[Aetheri]

True, look how much of 's popularity comes from his deep characterization and intricate backstory.

You mean the character that couldn't be any happier while drowning?

 

[ZelDan]

True, look how much of 's popularity comes from his deep characterization and intricate backstory.

Well, Pac-man doesn't have much going on for him

I guess going back to the character design part/animation part, Pac-Man still stands out a bit more with how he WAKAWAKAWAKAS his away around the screen or how he just inverts to death and pops out of existence. Not that much more than Steve, but atleast pac-man himself made some actual sound, whereas I don't think Steve does at any point. Not to mention Pac-Man does later grow to become more expressive later on (I mean look at this smug son of a b**** ). To be fair, Steve has also gotten a bit more expressive now, but not to the extent Pac-Man has.

Even Game & Watch (yeah, I know people like to bring him up) is more impressive to me than Steve, with how each "step" he takes has G&W change his pose/stance and sometimes his facial expression, or just face in general. Sounds a bit more interesting than how Steve just kinda...pivots his arms and legs around...Atleast Steve pivots them around a bit more creatively thanks to the update.

 

[DarthEnderX]

While the argument is stupid and is just gatekeeping due to selfishness anyway, plus there are already characters with no expression, here are things that give Steve and Alex at least a bit of personality:

-emotes

-The official animation that was used at least one time in today’s Minecon as a sort-of transition, showing Steve and Alex seeming to talk to each other/nod at each other before flying off with their elytra

-The Village & Pillage update’s trailer showing Alex happy in the new village before preparing to fight the invading pillagers and save the villagers

-While I’m not sure Mojang has commented on it (though I assume it’d need approval), the June-August 2016 issue of the Lego Club magazine showed Steve’s and Alex’s main interests; Steve being a builder, miner, and alchemist, while Alex is a builder, hunter, and explorer; it also said Steve was Alex’s boyfriend

-I don’t know, I’m just spitballing here, uh...how about Minecraft: Dungeons!

I swear people would complain about Villager if he wasn’t already in.

And you don't think it matters at all that half your reasons are from, like, advertisements for the game, and not the game itself, and other stuff you mentioned isn't even out yet...as if Nintendo's decision was influenced by things that didn't even exist yet?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I like Steve’s look, they could use the cleaner version of him from official artwork/merchandise but I’d like his ingame look just the same. I also want them to keep his stiff limbs; they can work if the emotes and fans’ Steve for Smash animations can work.

Forgot a few more official things that actually give Steve and Alex expressions as well:

-Some official action figures; includes Alex with a happy face and Steve gaining angry eyebrows with his eyes being a bit slanted. There is one where Steve has a sorta ugly mouth, though :S

-The Minecraft emoticons in the LIVE chat during the Minecon stream included a Creeper face...as well as Steve with heart eyes and Alex with her mouth open, showing two rows of teeth (a little weird for her but it wasn’t bad imo, the action figure seemed okay too but maybe a bit weirder).

-once again, while they haven’t appeared in the
trailers, Dungeons could still count...

And you don't think it matters at all that half your reasons are from, like, advertisements for the game, and not the game itself, and other stuff you mentioned isn't even out yet...as if Nintendo's decision was influenced by things that didn't even exist yet?

They’re still official things, and Sakurai has said before he gets word on upcoming stuff.

I mean, y’all’s argument doesn’t really work either, since they officially do have at least a bit of personality and other characters don’t show personality in the way y’all are demanding Steve does. It’s just another fan rule, not to mention selfish gatekeeping pushing opinions as fact for the sake of somehow keeping others’ beloved character out of a dang videogame. They can give Steve expressions by making his eyes wide and stuff like in animations, why would Sakurai limit himself to a static PNG when Mojang doesn’t? Steve can even blink now with it clearly being planned for a while since it’s already in the Bedrock betas. He can express himself through body language anyway, and Sakurai and his team have made new animations for characters’ before. It’s not like Steve only being able to move in certain ways in certain situations is canon :/ What Steve has already shows he can move his limbs in any way he wants like everyone else.

 

[KatKit]

What's the point of a League of Legends fighter if it's not K/DA?

266 million views? What the actual heck. Pretty catchy though.

If we can get Samus in Smash with no issues, Steve's lack of expressions or voice shouldn't be a problem.

Maybe it's just me, but I always felt like Samus (particularly in N64) was super expressive.... well, for Samus. She was all about sound, visual gags, and body language. That gangster ledge falling animation and her giving you the finger with her arm canon while making angry beeping sounds never got old. The old shock animation surprised the heck out of me when I first saw it: it humanized someone with an otherwise robotic demeanor. As a 5 year old, I no idea a person was in the armor at first.

But more on topic, the lack of expression argument is silly and straw graspy.

 

[Curious Villager]

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2019/190208e.pdf
Q&A 13 the last one.
It wasn't directly from Furukawa's mouth so that was my mistake.

Wait, Satoru Shibata was the one that said this?
That's, interesting...

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I feel like facial expressions aren't too necessary when it comes to showing personality as long as the general body language can make up for it. Piranha Plant has a ton of personality for a potted plant with no eyes, Wii Fit literally has the facial features of a mannequin but makes up for it with her wacky fitness-based moveset, and even R.O.B. shows some personality in his animations despite not emoting at all (how many characters do you know that dab as they drown to their death?). If all of those characters can show some form of personality through their animations, Sakurai and his team could definitely find a way to make Steve interesting.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Wait, Satoru Shibata was the one that said this?
That's, interesting...

Because?

I need more context here.

 

[Curious Villager]

Because?

I need more context here.

Well he was the former president of Nintendo of Europe before he got promoted to a higher position at Nintendo of Japan.

I'll have to look more into this first but if he was one of the higher ups at Nintendo that helped Sakurai on deciding the DLC then this might potentially bode well for certain franchises.

Like I said, I'll have to get some more info on this first.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Well he was the former president of Nintendo of Europe before he got promoted to a higher position at Nintendo of Japan.

I'll have to look more into this first but if he was one of the higher ups at Nintendo that helped Sakurai on deciding the DLC then this might potentially bode well for certain franchises.

Like I said, I'll have to get some more info on this first.

Okay. That makes a lot more sense.

That certainly would bode well for franchises particularly popular in Europe, like...what was it called...Processor Layman? I forget.

That's an interesting piece of information regardless. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Curious Villager]

Okay. That makes a lot more sense.

That certainly would bode well for franchises particularly popular in Europe, like...what was it called...Processor Layman? I forget.

That's an interesting piece of information regardless. Thank you for the clarification.

He's known to be a fan of the series as well as Ace Attorney which is probably why they where so popular and promoted so well over there, so, who knows...
Heh, guess only time will tell..

No problem.

 

[Roberk]

I feel like facial expressions aren't too necessary when it comes to showing personality as long as the general body language can make up for it. Piranha Plant has a ton of personality for a potted plant with no eyes, Wii Fit literally has the facial features of a mannequin but makes up for it with her wacky fitness-based moveset, and even R.O.B. shows some personality in his animations despite not emoting at all (how many characters do you know that dab as they drown to their death?). If all of those characters can show some form of personality through their animations, Sakurai and his team could definitely find a way to make Steve interesting.

>(how many characters do you know that dab as they drown to their death?)
We don't deserve Sakurai

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Oh, and while we're on the Steve emoting topic, I find it funny that Steve not having facial expressions is seen as a sticking point for some people when one of the most discussed characters here is Doomguy, a character whose face is always covered by a helmet. Unless they want to emulate the early Doom games and have his actual face as the character portrait (which, I'll admit, would be a very cool touch), we aren't gonna be seeing Doomguy's facial expressions in-game and a lot of his personality will have to be shown through body language. I get that comparing a character with a fleshed-out backstory to a blank-slate avatar is kind of a false equivalency, but the point that a character can still have personality despite not having visible facial expressions still stands.

 

[TheYungLink]

Unless they want to emulate the early Doom games and have his actual face as the character portrait (which, I'll admit, would be a very cool touch)

I agree with you on Steve but maaaaan I always thought THIS was a must-have detail for Doomguy if he ever gets in Smash. Just have the same pixellated glares to the left and the right when you dash in those directions or something.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Oh, and while we're on the Steve emoting topic, I find it funny that Steve not having facial expressions is seen as a sticking point for some people when one of the most discussed characters here is Doomguy, a character whose face is always covered by a helmet. Unless they want to emulate the early Doom games and have his actual face as the character portrait (which, I'll admit, would be a very cool touch), we aren't gonna be seeing Doomguy's facial expressions in-game and a lot of his personality will have to be shown through body language. I get that comparing a character with a fleshed-out backstory to a blank-slate avatar is kind of a false equivalency, but the point that a character can still have personality despite not having visible facial expressions still stands.

Plus, there’s no reason for Sakurai to stick to a static PNG when Mojang doesn’t want to, either, and at least even made Steve and other characters able to blink ingame (and I think mobs blink in Minecraft Earth, or at least I remember seeing chickens blink in a video, and of course there’s official animations with the Villagers and Illagers blinking/slanting eyes and moving their mouths without any weird bendy or mesh stuff or anything like that). And if anyone wants to argue against blank slate avatars...

 

[NoOtherPersona]

my opinion on steve has changed he deserves his chance to shine plus at least it's not 4chans grotesque nightmare that haunted us for that super long period so I'll take it whatever

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

There can be points against a character's inclusion without ruling it out. There are reasons some person would be against a given character, and it doesn't matter if you point to other characters who share relevant traits and are already in Smash, because that person isn't arguing that that character can't get in.

 

[TheCJBrine]

There can be points against a character's inclusion without ruling it out. There are reasons some person would be against a given character, and it doesn't matter if you point to other characters who share relevant traits and are already in Smash, because that person isn't arguing that that character can't get in.

> Points against a character’s inclusion

I don’t care if people don’t like Steve, but using points that other characters share and aren’t entirely true anyway, but still arguing as if he can’t or likely won’t get in, sure sounds like they’re arguing against Steve’s inclusion outside of just opinions especially since some people actually do and some elsewhere are quite rude and jerks about it.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

> Points Against a character’s inclusion

I don’t care if people don’t like Steve, but using points that other characters share and aren’t entirely true anyway, but still arguing as if he can’t or likely won’t get in, sure sounds like they’re arguing against Steve’s inclusion especially since some people actually do and some elsewhere are quite rude and jerks about it.

A character can be in Smash and have points against their inclusion. A character's probability of getting in Smash now doesn't retroactively become 100% if they get in later.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah that makes sense and they're doing it already with Hero = Japan, Banjo = America, Terry = Latin-America and places like that, Etc. I can definitely see that happening again and that's great more sales for Smash it makes financial business sense from Nintendo's point of view.

On a different note though at least they also mentioned appeasing the fans of Smash which gives me hope for characters I want like Geno.. Not really though cause that could mean a million different characters..

Wait why does Banjo fit with what he said? He wanted people who never played Smash before to get interested in Smash and the Venn diagram of Banjo fans and Smash fans is a tiny circle in a larger one

 

[TheCJBrine]

A character can be in Smash and have points against their inclusion. A character's probability of getting in Smash doesn't retroactively become 100% if they get in.

Yes.

And I’m arguing these points likely don’t matter given official stuff that goes against these points. Plus there’s no reason to believe Sakurai would stick with a static PNG texture when that’s not even what Mojang wanted to convey or consider canon.

Some people don’t like him. That’s fine. No need to gatekeep him. As I said some people elsewhere actually are frickin jerks about it and pretend their opinions are facts...despite all these points being entirely opinionated.

Technically though, their chance of getting in was 100% since they were chosen...*shrug*

 

[GoodGrief741]

In other news, I’ve finished up my post-Fighter Pass prediction/wish list.

Above: Fighter Pass
Below: More DLC
View attachment 239935

The characters are essentially a combination of who I want & expect to get in.

If I’m up to the task, I might make a 100 character roster if Sakurai is indeed aiming for that goal.

This. This is treasure.

I call them novelties for a simple reason. They're young and unproven. What's to say that in 10 years Shovel Knight and Undertale disappear? I'm not saying they will, but look at all the 3rd parties in Smash, they've all withstood the test of time with the arguable exception of Bayonetta at the time of her inclusion (Who really, imo, was put in for other reasons). Both of these franchises should mature first before being in Smash and, imo, that's why they aren't. I said it earlier, Sakurai has never been one to pick character because they are popular here and now. He's always been meticulous and multi-faceted in his decisions. I find their inclusions now to be "Maybe one day it will happen, keep it up and it will. But that day is not today".

I think at this point it's very obvious that Undertale and Shovel Knight have withstood the test of time and will continue to do so given their massive impact.