Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah were more likely to get characters who are already Spirits before we get anyone who are Assists.

Shantae is definitely one that comes to mind given her demand and Sakurai's statement.

 

[ze9]

Of course, since there's a rule for 3rd party playable characters that for primary reps, it needs to be the main protagonist. If Alucard was the 1st Castlevania rep instead of Simon, it wouldn't comply with the rules.

There is no such rule.

Anyways, I honestly can't see why assist trophies should be off the table. I'm not saying they're particularly likely but I can't see why a character already being an AT would be a problem.

 

[Schnee117]

The day the community stops coming up with dumb fan rules will be the day the world ends.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Or you can be Hideo Kojima and just make a personal request of Sakurai as a close friend of his lol

You think Suda 51 ever tried to do that, only to have his hopes of Travis getting in shot down?

I’m going into the next set of dlc with the thinking that easy to implement additions will get priority over characters being built from scratch.
Therefore, I would not count out one or two assists getting upgraded. Not every AT is likely, but characters like Zero, Alucard, and Knuckles are fairly fleshed out and wouldn’t require too much work to make them into a playable move set.
I presume that should this happen, the AT will be removed or will just not be allowed to spawn if the player character is active.

Oh yes he would; Knuckles can do like, three things in his AT? Punch combo, home attack and do the dig thing? That's nowhere near entire moveset worthy! Something else with Knuckles, does his underground digging ability kinda prohibit his inclusion as a playable Smash character? Like a character that can be totally invincible underground for a prolonged period of time, would that be a bit game-breaking?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Of course, since there's a rule for 3rd party playable characters that for primary reps, it needs to be the main protagonist. If Alucard was the 1st Castlevania rep instead of Simon, it wouldn't comply with the rules.

It's not a rule so much as it makes more sense to add the most recognizable character first. Like, It'd be weird to add Zelda before Link...Actually that'd be pretty funny but you get what I mean.

EDIT:

Here the rules for 1st party playable characters:

1. Primary/1st rep needs to be the main protagonist.

2. Needs to be a major character. (piranha plant is an exception)

Now here the rules for 3rd party playable characters:

1. Needs to be a videogame character.

2. Needs to have a significant console history.

3. 1st/primary rep needs to be the main protagonist.

4. Needs to be a major character.

5. Character can't be extremely/excessively/incredibly obscure.

Again these are more tendencies than they are rules. The protagonist is often the most popular character and adding anyone else first just seems weird to most people even if they wanted said character.

 

[Nquoid]

Of course, since there's a rule for 3rd party playable characters that for primary reps, it needs to be the main protagonist. If Alucard was the 1st Castlevania rep instead of Simon, it wouldn't comply with the rules.

Here the rules for 1st party playable characters:

1. Primary/1st rep needs to be the main protagonist.
2. Needs to be a major character. (piranha plant is an exception)

Now here the rules for 3rd party playable characters:

1. Needs to be a videogame character.
2. Needs to have a significant console history.
3. 1st/primary rep needs to be the main protagonist.
4. Needs to be a major character.
5. Character can't be extremely/excessively/incredibly obscure.

Apart from Cloud, Hero and Joker. Hell even Ness isn't the original Mother rep.

Alucard has been playable since Castlevania III and is the main character of the definitive Castlevania game with Symphony of the Night. Hell, in terms of Nintendo representation, the Igavania games from the GBA and DS are probably the strongest stretch of Castlevania games ever.

 

[Dukemon]

There is no Blizzard fighter on the way.
Blizzard commented, it would not be up to them.

Would there be a Blizzard DLC on the way, Blizzard would not say anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Of course, since there's a rule for 3rd party playable characters that for primary reps, it needs to be the main protagonist. If Alucard was the 1st Castlevania rep instead of Simon, it wouldn't comply with the rules.

Here the rules for 1st party playable characters:

1. Primary/1st rep needs to be the main protagonist.

2. Needs to be a major character. (piranha plant is an exception)

Now here the rules for 3rd party playable characters:

1. Needs to be a videogame character.

2. Needs to have a significant console history.

3. 1st/primary rep needs to be the main protagonist.

4. Needs to be a major character.

5. Character can't be extremely/excessively/incredibly obscure.

I didn't expect a Sonic OC to make rules on what characters should follow in Smash.

 

[Aetheri]

Of course, since there's a rule for 3rd party playable characters that for primary reps, it needs to be the main protagonist. If Alucard was the 1st Castlevania rep instead of Simon, it wouldn't comply with the rules.

Here the rules for 1st party playable characters:

1. Primary/1st rep needs to be the main protagonist.

2. Needs to be a major character. (piranha plant is an exception)

Now here the rules for 3rd party playable characters:

1. Needs to be a videogame character.

2. Needs to have a significant console history.

3. 1st/primary rep needs to be the main protagonist.

4. Needs to be a major character.

5. Character can't be extremely/excessively/incredibly obscure.

Is that why we got before ?

Also significant console history? What does that even mean? isn't exactly a character who's franchise has a deep console history at the time of her inclusion. Sure Bayo1 and 2 were critically acclaimed but they aren't exactly legacy titles.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Is that why we got before ?

Yes. Pikachu can be considered the main protagonist of the Pokemon franchise.

Also significant console history? What does that even mean? isn't exactly a character who's franchise has a deep console history at the time of her inclusion. Sure Bayo1 and 2 were critically acclaimed but they aren't exactly legacy titles.

That means that the character needs to have enough games on any console, that includes arcade. Unless they lack a complete series. That explains why characters like Angry birds aren't included in Smash in any form because they don't have enough console games.

 

[MainJPW]

Yes. Pikachu can be considered the main protagonist of the Pokemon franchise.

Pikachu is the mascot. Red/Pokemon Trainer is the protagonist.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Besides if we get anyone from Tekken it'll be Heihachi despite not being the protagonist but an antagonist. Why? Because he's the face/poster boy/icon of the series.

Same reason we'd also get Scorpion over Liu Kang despite the latter being the main character.

So no doesn't always needs to be the main protagonist.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes. Pikachu can be considered the main protagonist of the Pokemon franchise.

I remember playing as a pikachu in pokemon red, good times. Really inspired detective pikachu.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Besides if we get anyone from Tekken it'll be Heihachi despite not being the protagonist but an antagonist. Why? Because he's the face/poster boy/icon of the series.

I would like Jin Kazama as a 1st tekken rep along with Heihachi. Because Jin is the protagonist.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I would like Jin Kazama as a 1st tekken rep along with Heihachi.

Too bad because Heihachi would get in before Jin due to reasons already stated.

Icon, face and poster boy of franchise as Scorpion is to Mortal Kombat despite not being main protagonists.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The way I see it, for some characters, an Assist Trophy is all they're ever going to be. Thwomp or Dr. Wright or Nintendog are never going to be more than that.

For other characters, they are stepping stones to becoming playable. They're characters that could be playable, maybe should be playable, but aren't quite there yet. But lets Sakurai develop a model, some animations, part of a moveset, that can be used as examples for development into a full character in future games.

And yes, in this day and age, "future games" could just mean future DLC content.

Ngl sometimes I think about how different Smash would be if we got Alucard and Decidueye like Sakurai initially considered instead of Belmont and Incineroar despite me loving how they were implemented

I'd have been happy as **** about Decidueye instead of Inceneroar.

But, even though I love Alucard, Simon deserves that spot more. If CV ever gets a 2nd unique character, it should totally be Al though.

Of course, since there's a rule for 3rd party playable characters that for primary reps, it needs to be the main protagonist.

It's not a rule. It's just a pattern that Sakurai hasn't decided to break from yet.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah were more likely to get characters who are already Spirits before we get anyone who are Assists.

Shantae is definitely one that comes to mind given her demand and Sakurai's statement.

What statement? I don't recall him saying anything that specifically helps Shantae

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What statement? I don't recall him saying anything that specifically helps Shantae

"Pleasing as many fans" regarding additional DLC during the direct that revealed Terry.

 

[Flyboy]

I once thought that Jin had a shot over Heihachi and it's still not impossible as he's been the poster boy himself, but when you really get down to it it's just gotta be Heihachi. And hey, again, that's an idea I've warmed up to considerably despite being an Alisa main.

Ever since getting Terry I've realized I've grown to love the concept of "dream" crossovers being realized thanks to Smash. To me, seeing Heihachi fight Link or Ganondorf or even Chrom? That's money. That's hype. And having another game where some of the best fighting franchises can collide all the while throwing characters like Little Mac or Cloud in the mix? Amazing. Plus, a badass old man and badass villain - perfection.

Jin would still be cool as **** though. Devil powers would make for such a cool gimmick and Jin facing Ryu and Terry is also mega hype, or even going Devil to fight Ridley... Yes please. But damn I want Heihachi now.

"Pleasing as many fans" regarding additional DLC during the direct that revealed Terry.

Shantae is not the first name that comes to mind there. I'd think of true never-evers like Geno or modern icons like 2B first before hitting the Indies.

 

[Aetheri]

Yes. Pikachu can be considered the main protagonist of the Pokemon franchise.


That means that the character needs to have enough games on any console, that includes arcade. Unless they lack a complete series. That explains why characters like Angry birds aren't included in Smash in any form because they don't have enough console games.

I'm not sure you know what "Main Protagonist" means.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Shantae is not the first name that comes to mind there. I'd think of true never-evers like Geno or modern icons like 2B first before hitting the Indies.

I suppose I just recall she's frequently demanded. Then again doubt Sakurai will get them all given for all we know it be only 3 more DLC fighters at most though I'm predicting another pass or two.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

In crossovers playable characters usually get in first but it's not always the case.

Elma crossed over with Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and the custom protag is nowhere to be found
Mecha Fiora, Chrom and Lucina are in Project X Zone 2 without Shulk or Robin.
We got a Sans Mii costume and there's no sign of Frisk in the game.

Even a trope for it https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SidelinedProtagonistCrossover

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That means that the character needs to have enough games on any console, that includes arcade. Unless they lack a complete series. That explains why characters like Angry birds aren't included in Smash in any form because they don't have enough console games.

If we were to assume that all characters were compliant with these rules then we know that the minimum requirement for being in Smash is having exactly...

Zero console games!

Or if you think that's cheating then just one.

Spoiler: Angry Birds has two of them

In crossovers playable characters usually get in first but it's not always the case.

Elma crossed over with Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and the custom protag is nowhere to be found
Mecha Fiora, Chrom and Lucina are in Project X Zone 2 without Shulk or Robin.
We got a Sans Mii costume and there's no sign of Frisk in the game.

Even a trope for it https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SidelinedProtagonistCrossover

Avatar characters tend to get this treatment in order to avoid players going "Hey! that's not what my character looks/is like!".

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Avatar characters tend to get this treatment in order to avoid players going "Hey! that's not what my character looks/is like!".

I think that's one of the reasons Robin caught us all of guard in the Smash 4 hype cycle. The others being Gematsu and people who hadn't played the game assuming Chrom was the main character all the way through.

 

[Dukefire]

Sakurai is always the man to surprise us regarding if we are prepared for one.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Zero console games!

Not trying to start an argument, but why do Gyromite and Stack-Up not count? Or are you saying they don’t count because R.O.B. isn’t a character on screen in those games and instead is a peripheral?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Not trying to start an argument, but why do Gyromite and Stack-Up not count? Or are you saying they don’t count because R.O.B. isn’t a character on screen in those games and instead is a peripheral?

I consider Gyromite and Stack-Up to be "games it's compatible with" rather than "games it's in".

I think that's one of the reasons Robin caught us all of guard in the Smash 4 hype cycle. The others being Gematsu and people who hadn't played the game assuming Chrom was the main character all the way through.

In hindsight it does make sense; Robin has his own personality and feels more like a normal character than an avatar. That seems to be the case with all RPG self inserts to be honest. They tend to have way too much dialogue to not be characterized (like Robin & Corrin), their actions make their lack of dialogue characterize them (Crono), or other characters will characterize them (Lucas). This isn't a bad thing by any means, and they're still good everyman characters, but the more you see them the harder it is/the less you want to pretend that they're you.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I consider Gyromite and Stack-Up to be "games it's compatible with" rather than "games it's in".

Fair enough.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

An idea I'd have to make people want to buy Echoes is to add music tracks like Sans did, people would rush to get an echo of Joker if they brought Life Will Change for example

 

[ze9]

The biggest problem about Echoes is that most of the candidates left are kinda lame.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

An idea I'd have to make people want to buy Echoes is to add music tracks like Sans did, people would rush to get an echo of Joker if they brought Life Will Change for example

*Speculates on what other echoes could bring cool songs*

*Can only come up with Impa and Molduga Battle*

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The biggest problem about Echoes is that most of the candidates left are kinda lame.

I think Echoes as a whole are typically boring but I'm open for more songs

 

[osby]

I think Echoes as a whole are typically boring but I'm open for more songs

They don't really need echoes to add new songs from base game franchises, though.

If Nintendo is going to sell music for money, it's most likely going to be from new franchises.

 

[ze9]

I think Echoes as a whole are typically boring but I'm open for more songs

Well, it worked for Sans. I didn't buy the costume, I bought Megalovania.
Stand-alone songs would be fine too. I'd throw money at Nintendo for some more Tropical Freeze tracks.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

In crossovers playable characters usually get in first but it's not always the case.

Elma crossed over with Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and the custom protag is nowhere to be found
Mecha Fiora, Chrom and Lucina are in Project X Zone 2 without Shulk or Robin.
We got a Sans Mii costume and there's no sign of Frisk in the game.

Even a trope for it https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SidelinedProtagonistCrossover

There’s also KOS-MOS appearing in crossovers but not Shion, who can for all intents and purposes be considered the actual “protagonist” as the plot of the Xenosaga games revolves mostly around her. KOS-MOS is just the poster girl (and for good reason, she stands out more).

 

[Himiko]

I’m surprised by the comments in this thread about Sora and how heavily debated Disney’s cooperation for Sora’s inclusion would be, it’s like the people here haven’t seen HMK’s video regarding the matter. Disney seems open to the possibility of Sora in Smash, they just need an invite from Nintendo themselves and really need to see the fan demand, and also need permission from Square Enix and Nomura himself. I don’t see them being too difficult with Disney rep in the crossover either due to this.

 

[KatKit]

Remember that whole Katalina from Granblue rumor? I know so little about the series (and will learn more when Fantasy Versus is out), but it quickly became a pipe dream of mine for Smash. This trailer is less than one minute long, and she has no shot at all, but I want this to happen.

At the very least, I think I found my main for that game lol. Here's hoping the meta will revolve around Metera.

Also... crazy movesets that are beautifully animated is yet another reason Smash needs an ArcSys rep.

 

[Dee Dude]

I remember when most of y’all denied the possibility of more character DLC happening after the Fighter Pass and yet here we are.

I’m not saying AT promotions are guaranteed but imo they’re looking to be pretty likely and they never said they can’t upgrade characters within the same game, especially Sakurai has been more aware of requests then ever.

I agree that Spirit upgrades will be more likely but I say AT upgrades will generate a lot of shock and hype.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

As someone that wants 2B from Nier: Automata, Tracer from Overwatch, Siegfried/Knightmare from Soul Calibur, Yuri and Estelle the Tales of Vesperia/Luke/Tear from Tales of Abyss in really bad. Hayabusa and Shantae should definitely get in. If not as Fighter #5 then in as a later DLC.

 

[Himiko]

Remember that whole Katalina from Granblue rumor? I know so little about the series (and will learn more when Fantasy Versus is out), but it quickly became a pipe dream of mine for Smash. This trailer is less than one minute long, and she has no shot at all, but I want this to happen.

At the very least, I think I found my main for that game lol. Here's hoping the meta will revolve around Metera.

Also... crazy movesets that are beautifully animated is yet another reason Smash needs an ArcSys rep.

I ****ing love Granblue Fantasy and would lose my **** if Katalina got revealed for inclusion to Smash or if Granblue Fantasy got a rep at all. Also Granblue Fantasy Versus looks amazing too, I wish I still had a PS4 so I could play it.