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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Garteam

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When and where did he say this? Because this is news to me and I can’t seem to find a source on it.
My apologies, as this might've been false information.

The only source I could find was a GameFAQS thread, which then referred to a Gameinformer interview. I tried to find the interview but had no such luck. I do remember this quote being thrown a lot during the stretch between Ultimate's final direct and release though. Here's a :ultlink: in case anyone wants to see exactly where this comes from:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77224647
 

Aetheri

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So question about the additional DLC, who would you want to select the characters this time?

Sakurai & the dev team or Nintendo’s higher-ups again?
Me!

Midna, Elma and Crash Bandicoot are coming Smash boys and girls!!!
 

NonSpecificGuy

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So question about the additional DLC, who would you want to select the characters this time?

Sakurai & the dev team or Nintendo’s higher-ups again?
Nintendo is doing a DAMN good job so far. Especially with Banjo. I don't think Sakurai would've ever considered it if Nintendo and Microsoft weren't so close now.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Lemme just learn some advanced coding, 3D modeling, and animation real quick so I can make all of the characters. And like, never stop.




I wonder what would happen if someone approached Nintendo with a fully fleshed out character complete with a professional grade character model and animations (or even better a straight up mod of the character with the high quality assets). Would they agree to use it so long as they can negotiate the licensing?
 
D

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So question about the additional DLC, who would you want to select the characters this time?

Sakurai & the dev team or Nintendo’s higher-ups again?
Whoever is making the roster right now as they keep making the choices interesting with a combination of characters with different appeals to the different groups of fans.
 
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Idon

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Lemme just learn some advanced coding, 3D modeling, and animation real quick so I can make all of the characters. And like, never stop.




I wonder what would happen if someone approached Nintendo with a fully fleshed out character complete with a professional grade character model and animations (or even better a straight up mod of the character with the high quality assets). Would they agree to use it so long as they can negotiate the licensing?
Probably not.

Nintendo doesn't really acknowledge fan-works beyond... shutting them down if they're infringing on their copyright.

You'll have a really sick thing to put on your Resume if you ever apply for a position there, though.
 

TheYungLink

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Lemme just learn some advanced coding, 3D modeling, and animation real quick so I can make all of the characters. And like, never stop.




I wonder what would happen if someone approached Nintendo with a fully fleshed out character complete with a professional grade character model and animations (or even better a straight up mod of the character with the high quality assets). Would they agree to use it so long as they can negotiate the licensing?
idk ask those guys who tried to show Nintendo their versions of Link and Samus for their Marvel superhero game...for PS2...BEFORE getting their approval for it.

Though the PS2 bit is definitely damning, I don't think Nintendo likes it when people try to pull this even if their game would be on a Nintendo system. The only exception to this I can think of is Smash 64.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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idk ask those guys who tried to show Nintendo their versions of Link and Samus for their Marvel superhero game...for PS2...BEFORE getting their approval for it.

Though the PS2 bit is definitely damning, I don't think Nintendo likes it when people try to pull this even if their game would be on a Nintendo system. The only exception to this I can think of is Smash 64.
The difference between that and this would be that the assets you're showing them would be for their own game that they're currently still working on and may not even be of one of their characters. Even so I suppose you'd be wasting your time unless your plan was to get hired by someone else or something.

EDIT: As far as fan-made content goes I think Sega's the only company who's outright rewarded a fan gamedev. Capcom seems to mostly ignore the fan projects (though I remember there being something about them acknowledging Mega Man Maker on their website). Nintendo comes down on them with the full force of the law, and from what I understand Bethesda just found a way to profit from it.
 
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osby

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My apologies, as this might've been false information.

The only source I could find was a GameFAQS thread, which then referred to a Gameinformer interview. I tried to find the interview but had no such luck. I do remember this quote being thrown a lot during the stretch between Ultimate's final direct and release though. Here's a :ultlink: in case anyone wants to see exactly where this comes from:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77224647
Unless there's a legit source, I call fake on this one. In his Gameinformer interview, he does talk about Piranha Plant and Spirits (last direct content), but the only thing he says about fan feedback is this:

I did plan to create something satisfying for fans, but actual user reactions were a lot more than what I initially expected. Smash Bros. itself is like a big crossover festival, but I’m speechless to see this game being accepted by the fans so much.
It just sounds like some displeased people trying to prove just how important their displease.
 

GoodGrief741

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So question about the additional DLC, who would you want to select the characters this time?

Sakurai & the dev team or Nintendo’s higher-ups again?
Whoever considers first party characters.
Lemme just learn some advanced coding, 3D modeling, and animation real quick so I can make all of the characters. And like, never stop.




I wonder what would happen if someone approached Nintendo with a fully fleshed out character complete with a professional grade character model and animations (or even better a straight up mod of the character with the high quality assets). Would they agree to use it so long as they can negotiate the licensing?
I doubt that only because I'm confident that if Ubisoft hasn't already done that they will eventually and that won't help them.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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The difference between that and this would be that the assets you're showing them would be for their own game that they're currently still working on and may not even be of one of their characters. Even so I suppose you'd be wasting your time unless your plan was to get hired by someone else or something.
Nintendo would definitely not accept any outside resources. And to be fair, to model and animate a character in the style of Ultimate alongside coding said character in the style of Ultimate is borderline impossible. Also illegal too, since you're making unauthorized modifications to Nintendo's code. You'd get treated the same was as the Homebrew scene and promptly taken to court.
 
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TheYungLink

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The difference between that and this would be that the assets you're showing them would be for their own game that they're currently still working on and may not even be of one of their characters. Even so I suppose you'd be wasting your time unless your plan was to get hired by someone else or something.

EDIT: As far as fan-made content goes I think Sega's the only company who's outright rewarded a fan gamedev. Capcom seems to mostly ignore the fan projects (though I remember there being something about them acknowledging Mega Man Maker on their website). Nintendo comes down on them with the full force of the law, and from what I understand Bethesda just found a way to profit from it.
I completely misinterpreted your post, my bad. You meant if developers approach Nintendo with high quality models of their OWN characters for possible use in Smash. I was tired a few hours ago, forgive me.

I still doubt it would work, if only because we have Smash 4's Rayman model to call back toward. As high quality as it was, Sakurai only wanted a Rayman model for a trophy, not a playable character, and Ubisoft's above-and-beyond effort toward Rayman's model didn't really change that. So far, I really think that either Nintendo has to decide ahead of time if they want the guest characters, or if Sakurai, when given wiggle room, can pick and choose the guest characters himself. Or you can be Hideo Kojima and just make a personal request of Sakurai as a close friend of his lol
 

MainJPW

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Well, they could just shrink Emerl's proportions to fit the bomberman model. And since Emerl can copy moves, I think he would still be able to use bomberman's bombs. Also reskinning an assist trophy only changes appearance, not behavior/mechanics.
Except that's extremely unlikely to the extent that I'm wondering why this is even a speculation point. They wouldn't go through the trouble of changing proportions of a character to match another for no reason, not to mention replacing an assist trophy with a character from a completely separate franchise.
Well, Emerl is not a main character in the Sonic franchise, so he can't be playable. This also explains why Waluigi is an assist trophy and not playable. And piranha plant is just an exception. Aside from that I think Sakurai only wants to have major playable characters.
That's not what he meant...
Well due to assist trophies being used in Spirit battles, that's why assist trophy skins are required
--Except they aren't required...at all. This is all a massive reach.
Also here are some assist trophy replacement skins via modding/hacking I thought of.
Papyrus over Waluigi

Spring Tron over Spring Man

Goku over Akira (Virtura Fighter)

Miku Hatsune over Lyndis

Lilac (freedom planet) over Knuckles

Scourge (sonic) over Shadow

Crono (chrono trigger) over Isaac

Emerl (sonic) over Bomberman
I don't even understand what you're on about now. Are you just talking about modding the game? Why are you mentioning the developers replacing assist trophies then?
 
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AmphabulouSnake

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I think if certain characters are Assist Trophies there's a good and simple reason why they are and why they are not fighters :)
 

DevaAshera

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I think if certain characters are Assist Trophies there's a good and simple reason why they are and why they are not fighters :)
Honestly, the reasons are typically as follows.
- They have functions that work well for Assist Trophies (Chain Chomp, Hammer Bro, Metroid, Etc)
- They are popular characters but 'more fitting' characters are in (Guile, Alucard, Knuckles, Etc)
- They are popular requests but just didn't make the cut (Ashley, Krystal, Isaac, etc)
Remember, sometimes Assist Trophies can get upgraded into full fledged fighters like Little Mac did.
Fact is that if Sakurai can make a generic enemy with very little moveset potential into a fighter like he did with Piranha Plant, then he can make literally anyone into a fighter. There's no reason they aren't fighters other than just the simple fact that they weren't chosen to be this go around.
 

DevaAshera

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Ngl sometimes I think about how different Smash would be if we got Alucard and Decidueye like Sakurai initially considered instead of Belmont and Incineroar despite me loving how they were implemented
Honestly, while I love Alucard and Decidueye more than the Belmonts and Incineroar, I have to say that the latter are more unique and interesting as characters in a playable sense.
 

SKX31

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Ngl sometimes I think about how different Smash would be if we got Alucard and Decidueye like Sakurai initially considered instead of Belmont and Incineroar despite me loving how they were implemented
If I'd hazard a guess:

"WTF Simon AT? As a supporter of his since Brawl, this. Is. Not. Okay. Sakurai! I feel your pain Waluigi fans."
*At a Smash Direct*: "Yes, Alucard can also wield Death's Scythe.* *Death: Shocked Pikachu Face*
(EDIT, I screwed up and forgot initially that Deci's a Ghost type) "TIL Shadow Sneak has a weird interaction with bomb items. Bug?"
"Alu down-air is a great combo starter, check it out!"
"This character is a creature of chaos. It may take many incarnations."
"No, your father doesn't turn into a Bishonen good guy in this gam - oh wait, his Spirit does. Nevermind."
"Decidueye's arrows' hitstun should be nerfed next patch."
 
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Calamitas

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Honestly, while I love Alucard and Decidueye more than the Belmonts and Incineroar, I have to say that the latter are more unique and interesting as characters in a playable sense.
How would you even know that? We have no alternate universe Smash Ultimate that we could compare the characters to. For all we know, Decidueye and Alucard could've been far more interesting than Incineroar and Simon/Richter. There's just no way to check.
 
D

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People who want AT promotion can't deal with the character not being playable. I got 2 words for you:

MOVE ON
 

Pinguino21v

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If we did get a WC3 rep, I'd wager they'd pick Thrall. Arthas is a valid choice too, but Thrall's more representative of what got Blizzard rolling as a company in the first place, as well as what many people like about the Horde. Plus, he'd be an elemental hammer-wielder - his moveset almost writes itself!
I 100% agree, and I've been on Team Thrall since Terry was announced. I think we're all REALLY underestimating Blizzard/Warcraft especially if Nintendo wants to cover a lot of ground with this
I didn't think until recently that we could get a Warcraft character. Today, I'm thinking it's underrated for a potential rep.

- They are popular requests but just didn't make the cut (Ashley, Krystal, Isaac, etc)
Remember, sometimes Assist Trophies can get upgraded into full fledged fighters like Little Mac did.
Fact is that if Sakurai can make a generic enemy with very little moveset potential into a fighter like he did with Piranha Plant, then he can make literally anyone into a fighter. There's no reason they aren't fighters other than just the simple fact that they weren't chosen to be this go around.
A lot of people seems to forgot that being an AT is not a death sentence but can only be explained by your third point: interesting characters that just are lower on the list.

Just imagine AT being a thing since the first game, we would surely have got a few characters that are fighters now: Diddy, Villager, Bowser, Ganondorf...

To these people who are thinking that AT can't get promoted, open your mind.
 
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SKX31

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How would you even know that? We have no alternate universe Smash Ultimate that we could compare the characters to. For all we know, Decidueye and Alucard could've been far more interesting than Incineroar and Simon/Richter. There's just no way to check.
Yea, pretty much. Which is why my previous post was hazarding a guess. At the same time, alternate timelines are tempting for similar reasons as speculating is. "What if?" and all.

So question about the additional DLC, who would you want to select the characters this time?

Sakurai & the dev team or Nintendo’s higher-ups again?
Honestly, I have a lot of faith in both Sakurai and Nintendo's higher ups (I've been mentioning Furukawa a lot - he's the most prominent exec) Really, I'd keep the current arrangement of "Furukawa and the execs give Sakurai a list, Sakurai makes the final decisions out of the list". Sure, both Sakurai and Furukawa screw up* but both people are very competent overall.

I've been a broken record about Furukawa's long term plans - I need to emphasize that he's not a fool. Since he's a Famicom kid he knows that building fanbases (emphasis mine) takes time:

We recognize that the Chinese market is vast and attractive, but looking forward, we don't expect our video game business in China to easily expand, given that our primary markets for dedicated video game consoles, Japan, the Americas, and Europe have been built over the course of more than 30 years. The launch timing for Nintendo Switch in China is not yet determined, so nothing in this area has been included in the financial forecast for the current fiscal year (ending March 2020). However, even if it were to be included, we would not anticipate it having a significant effect on overall financial results for this fiscal year.

With so many people around the world now playing games, we recognize that one of the challenges we must tackle within the medium and long term is how we take the unique entertainment experiences that Nintendo offers with our integrated hardware and software and expand to regions beyond Japan, the Americas, and Europe. Discussions about expanding in China at this point are just one part of our larger approach for addressing a gaming population that is expanding widely, not just in our current primary markets. This is not a short-term plan, but something we want to work on steadily over multiple years.
At the same time, he has made his intentions with Ultimate clear. Those two statements plus what we've gotten so far lead me to one belief: While he's fully inclined to suggest characters who appeal internationally (Terry's a good example), he's perfectly fine with what Sakurai chooses.

Terry didn't really get in because of his international popularity - however, his international popularity is a very nice bonus that can help expand Nintendo's presence and fan base. Bit by bit. International popularity only helps characters like Crash: popular in all three primary regions plus minor regions like Iran, surprisingly enough. Sure, the latter's small - but a small plus can only be a good thing. Crash's inclusion could have a similar effect as Terry's: Please long time die hard fans to him while also introducing long time fans to Smash and Nintendo in general.

So why not continue down this path? It's going to result in characters close to Nintendo and wild cards. It's going to have a lot of different positive side effects too. And it's working for both Sakurai and Furukawa.

*(Furukawa mumbled about the Switch being Nintendo's last console. Kinda doubt Nintendo would want to give up on that one any time soon.)

Edit: Further reading on Furukawa's long term strategy.
 
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Guynamednelson

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People who want AT promotion can't deal with the character not being playable. I got 2 words for you:

MOVE ON
Ridley fans didn't move on from Sakurai himself saying he's too big. Chrom fans didn't move on from Sakurai adding Robin instead for uniqueness. Guess what that got them?
 
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D

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Ridley fans didn't move on from Sakurai himself saying he's too big. Chrom fans didn't move on from Sakurai adding Robin instead for uniqueness. Guess what that got them?
Yeah but they weren't Smash 4 DLC, they were added in Ultimate another smash game. Both were pretty **** though.
 

ze9

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They should cancel the rest of the DLC because none of it will live up to Banjo-Kazooie. Thank you all for agreeing with me
I'm not going to be this extreme but the rest of the DLC characters is pretty much going to be just Banjo's entourage, yeah.
 

Nquoid

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Ngl sometimes I think about how different Smash would be if we got Alucard and Decidueye like Sakurai initially considered instead of Belmont and Incineroar despite me loving how they were implemented
This would be my preferred timeline. Minus a couple more first party reps, those two changes would make me ecstatic with the base roster.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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People who want AT promotion can't deal with the character not being playable. I got 2 words for you:

MOVE ON
The discussion was brought about by someone saying "Assist Trophy characters could be promoted if their Assist Trophy function was replaced by another character" and we were like "There's a better way to implement that" and then we pondered whether or not they would do that or not for about half a page, decided that they could but probably wouldn't, and then changed topics. No one was droning on about how unhappy they were that X character was an Assist Trophy. I don't think anyone's mentioned these characters here beyond a passing "oh how I wish", and I don't think that needs to be discouraged. Especially since that there is a (super slim) possibility of their dreams becoming a reality.

Besides, I'd rather have a circular conversation about Assist Trophies than "The Horrors of Violence and Gore: Why Doom's Protagonist Should Never be in Smash Ever". The former discussion doesn't get nearly as icky.
 

Aetheri

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People who want AT promotion can't deal with the character not being playable. I got 2 words for you:

MOVE ON
How about you let people want whatever they want.

Being an assist trophy in smash shouldn't prevent fans from requesting certain characters if they actually want them as fighters for the game.

I agree people shouldn't cry about it, nor should they be too optimistic about their chances. But I also agree that straight up giving up isn't going to make miracles happen either if they don't voice their opinions either.
 

SNEKeater

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Ngl sometimes I think about how different Smash would be if we got Alucard and Decidueye like Sakurai initially considered instead of Belmont and Incineroar despite me loving how they were implemented
Personally I would have prefered Alucard instead of Simon or Richter, but I understand why Sakurai picked the Belmonts. They're the main protagonists of most Castlevania games, so that was natural.
Anyway I think it's a bit curious because I always had the feeling Alucard was at least a bit more popular than any Belmont, mostly because Symphony of the Night, and yet he wasn't playable even if he was initially considered as the Castlevania rep as Sakurai said. In a certain sense I would guessed he would picked Alucard as he did with Cloud, even if Cloud wasn't the best representative of the Final Fantasy games published on Nintendo consoles. This last criteria fits more with Simon and Richter, for example.
 

Dust319

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I’m going into the next set of dlc with the thinking that easy to implement additions will get priority over characters being built from scratch.
Therefore, I would not count out one or two assists getting upgraded. Not every AT is likely, but characters like Zero, Alucard, and Knuckles are fairly fleshed out and wouldn’t require too much work to make them into a playable move set.
I presume that should this happen, the AT will be removed or will just not be allowed to spawn if the player character is active.
 
D

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I agree about letting people want characters but people DO need to stop expecting ATs to be promoted as DLC. ****, that Assist Alliance crap I saw on twitter made me mute something for the first time on that site
People still going through the stages of grief.
 

kaithehedgefox

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I don't even understand what you're on about now. Are you just talking about modding the game? Why are you mentioning the developers replacing assist trophies then?
I'm talking about modding Smash Ultimate to reskin assist trophies. And how do you think about my ideas?
 

Flyboy

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Personally I would have prefered Alucard instead of Simon or Richter, but I understand why Sakurai picked the Belmonts. They're the main protagonists of most Castlevania games, so that was natural.
Anyway I think it's a bit curious because I always had the feeling Alucard was at least a bit more popular than any Belmont, mostly because Symphony of the Night, and yet he wasn't playable even if he was initially considered as the Castlevania rep as Sakurai said. In a certain sense I would guessed he would picked Alucard as he did with Cloud, even if Cloud wasn't the best representative of the Final Fantasy games published on Nintendo consoles. This last criteria fits more with Simon and Richter, for example.
I think it's because, especially when you consider the Netflix series, the Belmonts are still THE immediate thought people have when thinking of the series. I say this as a huge fan - Alucard, Soma, and Shanoa may be some of the coolest playable protagonists in the series, but I'd be hard pressed to put any of them over Simon as a first rep to represent the whole series. It's different from Cloud or even Joker, whose games aren't directly tied to the overall series timeline and became iconic in their own right. It's all about what the character is trying to represent as well - if we were only repping the SOTN and up era of Castlevania we'd get Alucard and MAYBE Richter, possibly a Soma echo for Alucard as well.

I'd pop off if Alucard got added in a later game, on that note. I'm still amazed we got Richter at all.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Personally I would have prefered Alucard instead of Simon or Richter, but I understand why Sakurai picked the Belmonts. They're the main protagonists of most Castlevania games, so that was natural.
Anyway I think it's a bit curious because I always had the feeling Alucard was at least a bit more popular than any Belmont, mostly because Symphony of the Night, and yet he wasn't playable even if he was initially considered as the Castlevania rep as Sakurai said. In a certain sense I would guessed he would picked Alucard as he did with Cloud, even if Cloud wasn't the best representative of the Final Fantasy games published on Nintendo consoles. This last criteria fits more with Simon and Richter, for example.
The difference between Alucard and Cloud is that Castlevainia has the Belmonts as the main protagonists most of the time whereas any character that appears in more than one main Final Fantasy game is either a lore figure (Ifrit, Leviathan, etc.) or is getting a direct sequel (Final Fantasy X-2 for example). The character that comes closest to not being either of these things is Black Mage, which doesn't even refer to a character most of the time. I guess this is a pretty roundabout way of saying the Belmonts are default main characters while Cloud was chosen because his game was the most beloved and there isn't really any overlap in protagonists over the mainline titles.

Alucard's probably a shoe-in for the next Castlevania character to be added though assuming we get another. I for one can't wait to not be able to play him on Wii Fit Studio. lol
 

kaithehedgefox

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Personally I would have prefered Alucard instead of Simon or Richter, but I understand why Sakurai picked the Belmonts. They're the main protagonists of most Castlevania games, so that was natural.
Of course, since there's a rule for 3rd party playable characters that for primary reps, it needs to be the main protagonist. If Alucard was the 1st Castlevania rep instead of Simon, it wouldn't comply with the rules.

Here the rules for 1st party playable characters:

1. Primary/1st rep needs to be the main protagonist.

2. Needs to be a major character. (piranha plant is an exception)

Now here the rules for 3rd party playable characters:

1. Needs to be a videogame character.

2. Needs to have a significant console history.

3. 1st/primary rep needs to be the main protagonist.

4. Needs to be a major character.

5. Character can't be extremely/excessively/incredibly obscure.
 
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