Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

When it comes to speculation with the 5th fighter pass character (and even to a degree the other DLC after the fighter pass), I understand that Japanese companies are easier to work with, therefore we have a higher chance of getting eastern reps. At the same time, I don't think any company will double dip in the fighter pass. I also feel like Capcom, Konami, and Sega have quite a few reps already, so getting more from them when other iconic characters from other companies are requested seems kind of...jacked up, for lack of a better term.

That being said, aside from Bandai Namco, I have a hard time seeing a rep from one of these other companies, like Ryu Hayabusa, being chosen over western powerhouses like Rayman or Crash. Now if companies can double dip, I could see Microsoft or Square getting the 5th slot with Geno and Steve, respectively. Additionally, Konami, Sega, and Capcom (the latter two, especially) do have quite a few iconic characters not represented, so as much as I think people want to see diversity among companies, it would be really easy to pull from them.

The whole "this company has too many characters already" seems kinda silly gatekeeping when a few of the characters from Capcom and Sega are as popular and iconic if not more than other companies that aren't in the game already. If you would prefer characters from new companies that's fine but I would think that unless for grouping, most people care more about the character and less of the company.

 

[3BitSaurus]

As far as songs go, using the iconic song as the main piece and then going off of the rest of the OST to help fill out the other slots might be the best way to go, regardless of MOBA. Not sure what is LoL's leitmotif, is it "Summoner's Call" perhaps? The championship stuff would also be interesting, but in that case Sakurai may have to approach people like Imagine Dragons (They did collab wth Riot for Worlds 2014) and other third parties (Interestingly enough Deadmau5 collabed with Valve for Dota 2's World Cup in 2015). I'm not completely sure if Sakurai's comfortable with approaching mainstream famous musicians for Smash just yet. The most famous musicians are well, people like Kondo, Shimomura and Uematsu, but I wouldn't count them as "mainstream famous". Kondo comes closest though, IIRC.

Normally that would be a problem, but some of the championship and event compositions come from Riot's own staff. I think the collabs are just meant to spice some things up from time to time. I imagine it's the same with Dota 2?

Fixed that for you.

For whatever reason, the first example that came to mind was Alfonzo replacing the Moon.

The implications of that mental image are not something I'd like to keep in my mind for too long.

The whole "this company has too many characters already" seems kinda silly gatekeeping when a few of the characters from Capcom and Sega are as popular and iconic if not more than other companies that aren't in the game already. If you would prefer characters from new companies that's fine but I would think that unless for grouping, most people care more about the character and less of the company.

Maybe I'm misreading the original post, but I think he was specifically referring to the fifth spot in the Fighters Pass. If so, I agree - it's hard to see Sega or Square double-dipping, and they were already on board for some time. It's even harder to see the same for Microsoft and SNK, having just gotten their first characters.

Next season is fair game, but as far as Challenger Pack 5 goes, I don't think we'll be seeing anyone from these companies.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

This isn't that big a deal. There are already Assist Trophies that flat out don't appear on certain stages due to background elements. As for the spirit battles, they could just slap an alternate costume on the assist trophy should the player be playing as that character or just trust that the player can tell the difference between the lovingly rendered and animated playable character and the low poly Assist Trophy or will switch characters for that one fight if they can't.

I know that, but I think reskinning assist trophies for spirit battles and other cases is more convienitent. For example, I think Papyrus as Waluigi's assist trophy replacement is better than a blue Waluigi.

 

[KatKit]

Someone just bumped the Jill Dozer thread and I must admit, that series got the very short end of the stick. She didn't exist in any capacity in Smash 4, if I recall correctly. She's no longer an assist trophy either. It'd be nice if the series got a Kid Icarus style reboot or something; that's untapped potential for a fairly underrated game.

For whatever reason, the first example that came to mind was Alfonzo replacing the Moon.

The implications of that mental image are not something I'd like to keep in my mind for too long.

The quickest way to get rid of the mental image is to visualize it for real.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I know that, but I think reskinning assist trophies for spirit battles and other cases is more convienitent. For example, I think Papyrus as Waluigi's assist trophy replacement is better than a blue Waluigi.

I’d rather a blue Waluigi than an unfitting role for Papyrus.

And, as I said, they don’t need to do this/can do something different.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know that, but I think reskinning assist trophies for spirit battles and other cases is more convienitent. For example, I think Papyrus as Waluigi's assist trophy replacement is better than a blue Waluigi.

Your ideas can allow for more fan service if done right, but if done wrong it'll just piss people off. Especially since these replacements only happen if your are playing a specific character. It's also less convenient since you'd have to make new assets.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Someone just bumped the Jill Dozer thread and I must admit, that series got the very short end of the stick. She didn't exist in any capacity in Smash 4, if I recall correctly. She's no longer an assist trophy either. It'd be nice if the series got a Kid Icarus style reboot or something; that's untapped potential for a fairly underrated game.

The quickest way to get rid of the mental image is to visualize it for real.

Yeah, I wonder why there is no reference to the series at all... aren't there any Spirits or songs from Drill Dozer? I can't remember...

Also, the image you sent reminds me of something from Sesame Street. No idea why.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also, the image you sent reminds me of something from Sesame Street. No idea why.

The nose reminds me of Grover.

 

[ProfPeanut]

I feel like if Smash was ever interested in reeling in the China/MOBA crowd, it'd end up with a Warcraft III rep. See, you can trace all MOBAs back to Dota 1, a mod that probably wouldn't exist to inspire everything after it if it didn't have Warcraft III to cradle it. Warcraft's also responsible for popularizing a bunch of other significant things - asymmetrical RTS factions, the MMO craze, and the propagation of the "knightly humans vs. savage orcs" setting in pretty much every Chinese mobile game on the market.

China really loves Warcraft, even today. They still play the base game itself as an RTS on top of WoW and Dota 1, and they went out in droves to support the Warcraft movie. I'd wager there isn't a bigger video game franchise for them in terms of impact. Warcraft 3's still considered a respectable title by most metrics, good enough to even be remastered for this day and age.

If we did get a WC3 rep, I'd wager they'd pick Thrall. Arthas is a valid choice too, but Thrall's more representative of what got Blizzard rolling as a company in the first place, as well as what many people like about the Horde. Plus, he'd be an elemental hammer-wielder - his moveset almost writes itself!

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe I'm misreading the original post, but I think he was specifically referring to the fifth spot in the Fighters Pass. If so, I agree - it's hard to see Sega or Square double-dipping, and they were already on board for some time. It's even harder to see the same for Microsoft and SNK, having just gotten their first characters.

Next season is fair game, but as far as Challenger Pack 5 goes, I don't think we'll be seeing anyone from these companies.

So a Capcom pick that I mentioned would be unjust to you if its in the 5th spot of the pass? In general it seems kinda crappy to give preferences to any company just because they don't have a character yet, a lot of the characters from companies already represented differ greatly from the current content and just blocking them due to that makes the process a lot more crappy.

 

[Deleted member]

If they want to upgrade Assist Trophies they could just turn the characters off when playing as said character as they have already done it before with Alucard in the Wii Fit stage. If you would want to play as Isaac for example you could and the Assist would be turned off when you play as him or they might not even touch the Assist Trophy.

We have Chrom getting beaten up by Chrom in Robin's final smash while a Mii wearing a Chrom costume watches at this point I don't think Sakurai really cares all too much as if he wants to put a character in he will even if it is an Assist Trophy.

I don't know if Assists will be upgraded anyways and even if we do get some it'll probably be only 1-2 of them like Waluigi and Isaac at most in part by their backlash and fan demand.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So a Capcom pick that I mentioned would be unjust to you if its in the 5th spot of the pass? In general it seems kinda crappy to give preferences to any company just because they don't have a character yet, a lot of the characters from companies already represented differ greatly from the current content and just blocking them due to that makes the process a lot more crappy.

Uh... when did I say it would be "unjust"? There is no notion of "deservedness" or anything like that in my post. How'd you get that impression?

I didn't even mention Capcom, just the companies that already have fighters in the Pass. When next season comes, Sega, SE and others will still be very likely, because they have great characters and franchises. But maybe these companies that already have content in the pass aren't likely for the final spot of the FP as others that don't.

Heck, I've said numerous times in the past that I think Challenger Pack 5 is from Capcom, going by a hunch. I don't know what kind of thing you took from my post, but it definitely wasn't what I was trying to say.

 

[SKX31]

Normally that would be a problem, but some of the championship and event compositions come from Riot's own staff. I think the collabs are just meant to spice some things up from time to time. I imagine it's the same with Dota 2?

It's the same, yes. The music's released as in game packs (alongside other customizable stuff like announcers), but most such stuff is forgotten rapidly after the event. And, compositions from Riot's staff should be safe.

I feel like if Smash was ever interested in reeling in the China/MOBA crowd, it'd end up with a Warcraft III rep. See, you can trace all MOBAs back to Dota 1, a mod that probably wouldn't exist to inspire everything after if it didn't have Warcraft III to cradle it. Plus, Warcraft's also responsible for popularizing a bunch of other significant things too - asymmetrical RTS factions, the MMO craze, and the propagation of the "knightly humans vs. savage orcs" setting in pretty much every Chinese mobile game on the market.

Plus, China really loves Warcraft, even today. They still play the base game itself as an RTS on top of WoW and Dota 1, and they went out in droves to support the Warcraft movie. I'd wager there isn't a bigger video game franchise for them. Warcraft 3's still considered a respectable title, good enough to even be remastered for this day and age.

If we did get a WC3 rep, I'd wager it'd be Thrall. Arthas is a valid choice to, but Thrall's more representative of what got Blizzard rolling as a company in the first place, as well as what many people like about the Horde. Plus, he'd be an elemental hammer-wielder - the moveset almost writes itself.

Yeah, WC3 / WOW would make a lot of sense. My only reservation around it is that its got way more competition within the parent company than the MOBAs have. Crash and Tracer most prominently, but Spyro, StarCraft and Diablo are also viable contenders. As I've said in the past, I have 8 or so A-B characters (Including Thrall and perhaps Arthas here) I'd enjoy - their bench is around Capcom's or S-E's in terms of depth. Sure, Valve has 4ish viable contenders, but there's not many companies who can claim 6 or more viable choices.

When it comes to WarCraft specifically, yeah I'm pretty much also leaning towards Thrall. Arthas does have the unique "Death Knight / Lich King" motif around him, but Thrall is probably the best fit as the most promiment "non-standard orc" there is.

 

[Deleted member]

Uh... when did I say it would be "unjust"? There is no notion of "deservedness" or anything like that in my post. How'd you get that impression?

I didn't even mention Capcom, just the companies that already have fighters in the Pass. When next season comes, Sega, SE and others will still be very likely, because they have great characters and franchises. But maybe these companies that already have content in the pass aren't likely for the final spot of the FP as others that don't.

Heck, I've said numerous times in the past that I think Challenger Pack 5 is from Capcom, going by a hunch. I don't know what kind of thing you took from my post, but it definitely wasn't what I was trying to say.

You pretty much omitted the part of Capcom from my argument so I I kinda thought it was implied by you. I mentioned Capcom because the other poster mentioned it as off putting if it got in the fifth spot instead of a new company due to Capcom having too many characters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That would still effect game mechanics so it doesn't work.

Yeah, so does adding new characters.

There's no reason to keep the AT in the game if an AT is promoted to playable.

 

[3BitSaurus]

You pretty much omitted the part of Capcom from my argument so I I kinda thought it was implied by you. I mentioned Capcom because the other poster mentioned it as off putting if it got in the fifth spot instead of a new company due to Capcom having too many characters.

Eh, not really. What I was saying was that I personally don't think Sega, SE, Microsoft or SNK are likely for the last spot in the FP. That's it, really. Afterwards? Who knows?

That's what I took from the other post - it mentioned this and "Capcom and Sega have a lot of characters already" as two separate statements without any real causal links. Maybe the user still acknowledges characters from already represented companies as likely, but would prefer someone else. That's just my wild guess though. In the end I think we could both be misinterpreting them.

 

[yeet123]

They should cancel the rest of the DLC because none of it will live up to Banjo-Kazooie. Thank you all for agreeing with me

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They should cancel the rest of the DLC because none of it will live up to Banjo-Kazooie. Thank you all for agreeing with me

I am going to set your N64 on fire and replace it with a copy of Three Houses

 

[yeet123]

I am going to set your N64 on fire and replace it with a copy of Three Houses

You fell into my trap. I wanted you to set my N64 on fire, that way I can collect its insurance and buy a brand new one. You fool

 

[dezeray112]

I predict that the final character within the fighters pass would be between Ryu Hayabusa or Doom Guy.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You fell into my trap. I wanted you to set my N64 on fire, that way I can collect its insurance and buy a brand new one. You fool

They don't cover arson these days

 

[yeet123]

They don't cover arson these days

 

[osby]

They should continue with the rest of the DLC because none of it can be worse than Banjo-Kazooie. Thank you all for agreeing with me

You're welcome.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Ehh if we get a character from Warcraft then I hope it's Arthas instead of Thrall. Arthas was the highlight of Warcraft 3 in my opinion and his story was crucial to the game's story and it's future. Not to mention he was one of the first characters that Blizzard revealed in their Heroes of the Storm cinematic trailer, Thrall didn't have that pleasure. I'm sure more people know about Arthas if only because of the "Lich King" mantle which was a very huge name that reached mainstream news when the titular expansion for World of Warcraft got announced.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Nah man. It'd be Illidan. He's got the recovery abilities that're required for Smash.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got Kerrigan either. Given how huge Starcraft was in the east at one point. And it WAS on the N64.

I'm sure more people know about Arthas if only because of the "Lich King" mantle which was a very huge name that reached mainstream news when the titular expansion for World of Warcraft got announced.

Well, yeah. But that would also 100% be the version of Arthas that would get in the game if they added him. If you're lucky, you'll get an alt of him in his Death Knight form prior to the end of Frozen Throne.

 

[Calamitas]

Ehh if we get a character from Warcraft then I hope it's Arthas instead of Thrall. Arthas was the highlight of Warcraft 3 in my opinion and his story was crucial to the game's story and it's future. Not to mention he was one of the first characters that Blizzard revealed in their Heroes of the Storm cinematic trailer, Thrall didn't have that pleasure. I'm sure more people know about Arthas if only because of the "Lich King" mantle which was a very huge name that reached mainstream news when the titular expansion for World of Warcraft got announced.

Urgh, not another anime swordsman with a magic sword! Bet his moves are copied straight from Marth, too!


In case it's not obvious, I'm joking
But also: Dead Marth

 

[Deleted member]

Did anyone figure out about on how the Vifam robot Sakurai got could have to do with something on Ultimate?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Did anyone figure out about on how the Vifam robot Sakurai got could have to do with something on Ultimate?

Vifam have gun
Squid kids have gun

 

[yeet123]

Ehh if we get a character from Warcraft

ive never played warcraft but a character from that game would be a megaton bomb drop

 

[Calamitas]

Vifam have gun
Squid kids have gun

Vifam have rifle
Squid kids have no sniper rifle

 

[TheAJJohnson]

Maybe I'm misreading the original post, but I think he was specifically referring to the fifth spot in the Fighters Pass. If so, I agree - it's hard to see Sega or Square double-dipping, and they were already on board for some time. It's even harder to see the same for Microsoft and SNK, having just gotten their first characters.

Next season is fair game, but as far as Challenger Pack 5 goes, I don't think we'll be seeing anyone from these companies.

You're not misreading my post. That's exactly what I'm saying. I think post fighter pass content is fair game. I'm of the opinion that the DLC after the fighter pass was only given the green light after seeing how the fighter pass performed. So anything is fair game with that.

As for the 5th character, I think it will be a new company represented. Konami, Capcom, Sega, and Square all got a new rep in Ultimate, so if Sakurai and Co. didn't know whether or not they were going to do more DLC, I would think they would make sure they appeal to the most fans by including the widest array of companies. (Now there is an argument to be made about Capcom getting two new reps in Sm4sh, but let's be honest they were trying to do everything they could to get sales at that point. Haha.)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You're not misreading my post. That's exactly what I'm saying. I think post fighter pass content is fair game. I'm of the opinion that the DLC after the fighter pass was only given the green light after seeing how the fighter pass performed. So anything is fair game with that.

As for the 5th character, I think it will be a new company represented. Konami, Capcom, Sega, and Square all got a new rep in Ultimate, so if Sakurai and Co. didn't know whether or not they were going to do more DLC, I would think they would make sure they appeal to the most fans by including the widest array of companies. (Now there is an argument to be made about Capcom getting two new reps in Sm4sh, but let's be honest they were trying to do everything they could to get sales at that point. Haha.)

What if Namco were to get a new rep? They’re the only veteran company still at one character

 

[RoboFist]

I feel like if Smash was ever interested in reeling in the China/MOBA crowd, it'd end up with a Warcraft III rep. See, you can trace all MOBAs back to Dota 1, a mod that probably wouldn't exist to inspire everything after it if it didn't have Warcraft III to cradle it. Warcraft's also responsible for popularizing a bunch of other significant things - asymmetrical RTS factions, the MMO craze, and the propagation of the "knightly humans vs. savage orcs" setting in pretty much every Chinese mobile game on the market.

China really loves Warcraft, even today. They still play the base game itself as an RTS on top of WoW and Dota 1, and they went out in droves to support the Warcraft movie. I'd wager there isn't a bigger video game franchise for them in terms of impact. Warcraft 3's still considered a respectable title by most metrics, good enough to even be remastered for this day and age.

If we did get a WC3 rep, I'd wager they'd pick Thrall. Arthas is a valid choice too, but Thrall's more representative of what got Blizzard rolling as a company in the first place, as well as what many people like about the Horde. Plus, he'd be an elemental hammer-wielder - his moveset almost writes itself!

I 100% agree, and I've been on Team Thrall since Terry was announced. I think we're all REALLY underestimating Blizzard/Warcraft especially if Nintendo wants to cover a lot of ground with this Pass.

I've only ever played WoW, and only for a week (not my cuppa tea) so I have no connection to Thrall as a character. But it's what my gut has been telling me and I'm sticking with it til I'm proven wrong.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Well, yeah. But that would also 100% be the version of Arthas that would get in the game if they added him. If you're lucky, you'll get an alt of him in his Death Knight form prior to the end of Frozen Throne.

Oh I know, that's the version that I want them to go with anyways. Lich King Arthas is pretty much his most popular and iconic form, I met people back then who didn't know much about Warcraft yet they knew the Lich King. It's a title that eclipsed Arthas himself.

Urgh, not another anime swordsman with a magic sword! Bet his moves are copied straight from Marth, too!


In case it's not obvious, I'm joking
But also: Dead Marth

I predict the complaint that people would use most is "Dead Ganondorf", especially now that Ganondorf has his sword back.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Your ideas can allow for more fan service if done right, but if done wrong it'll just piss people off. Especially since these replacements only happen if your are playing a specific character. It's also less convenient since you'd have to make new assets.

I know it's would require more work and I can do it via modding. I just have to edit this model of Papyrus (from a smash 4 mod) by replacing the bone with a red tennis racket and then place him over the Waluigi assist trophy model.



Fans would be pleased because, they would be shouting out "Thank you very much! You've finally made Waluigi never be an assist trophy ever again.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I know it's would require more work and I can do it via modding. I just have to edit this model of Papyrus (from a smash 4 mod by replacing the bone with a red tennis racket and then place him over the Waluigi assist trophy model.

View attachment 239147

Fans would be pleased because, they would be shouting out "Thank you very much! You've finally made Waluigi never be assist trophy ever again.

And then they tick off Papyrus fans.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I know it's would require more work and I can do it via modding. I just have to edit this model of Papyrus (from a smash 4 mod) by replacing the bone with a red tennis racket and then place him over the Waluigi assist trophy model.

View attachment 239147

Fans would be pleased because, they would be shouting out "Thank you very much! You've finally made Waluigi never be an assist trophy ever again.

Haha wow I'm actually liking this new bait you made up as you've clearly gotten in trouble for the usual "Joker should be an assist". Be more creative with these ****posts, might earn a few likes

 

[kaithehedgefox]

And then they tick off Papyrus fans.

I understand I wasn't trying to piss nor offend papyrus fans, also Marioking64ds came up with a better idea for Waluigi's assist trophy replacement back in brawl. It's Super Team bot from Mario strikers.

Spoiler: assist trophy replacement models

Also here are some models I can use for my assist trophy replacement skins. These were from Smash 4 mods.

Emerl over Bomberman

Spoiler: model

Scourge over Shadow

Spoiler: model

Goku over Akira (virtura fighter)

Spoiler: model

Miku Hatsune over Lyndis

Spoiler: model

Lilac (freedom planet) over Knuckles

Spoiler: model

How do you think of my assist trophy replacements so far?

 

[Deleted member]

I think assist trophies may be able to be promoted only if another character who has similar proportions or looks similar replaces them when they are in battle.

Well the reason why they would need to do assist trophy reskinning is because making the assist trophy not appear when the character is in battle would effect game mechanics.

Well due to assist trophies being used in Spirit battles, that's why assist trophy skins are required if an assist trophy gets promoted to playable via DLC. For example if a player is playing as Waluigi and the Waluigi assist trophy is being used in the spirit battle, Papyrus will simply replace and mimic Waluigi's assist trophy.

Anything can happen when it comes to Smash, but replacing an AT with another character so that said AT can become a playable fighter is not 1 of those things. The only scenario I could see happening if an AT does becomes playable is where they get to be both a playable character and an AT because removing/replacing/disabling an AT is subtracting content from Ultimate, which I don't think Sakurai intends on doing.

 

[GoodGrief741]

When it comes to speculation with the 5th fighter pass character (and even to a degree the other DLC after the fighter pass), I understand that Japanese companies are easier to work with, therefore we have a higher chance of getting eastern reps. At the same time, I don't think any company will double dip in the fighter pass. I also feel like Capcom, Konami, and Sega have quite a few reps already, so getting more from them when other iconic characters from other companies are requested seems kind of...jacked up, for lack of a better term.

That being said, aside from Bandai Namco, I have a hard time seeing a rep from one of these other companies, like Ryu Hayabusa, being chosen over western powerhouses like Rayman or Crash. Now if companies can double dip, I could see Microsoft or Square getting the 5th slot with Geno and Steve, respectively. Additionally, Konami, Sega, and Capcom (the latter two, especially) do have quite a few iconic characters not represented, so as much as I think people want to see diversity among companies, it would be really easy to pull from them.

I'm having a hard time visualizing Rayman as a Western powerhouse.