Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Calamitas]

Oh okay nevermind.

It's a reference.

Edited in an explanatory link, but you were apparently faster than that.

 

[RoboFist]

I'm glad we put aside subjective terms like iconography and deservedness and can now argue over the clearly objective quality of "charm".

I've been able to stomach a lot of nonsense from this thread haha but this latest lunacy is almost as if you guys are actively trying to prevent yourselves from enjoying literally anything.

As a wise woman once said,

Spoiler

Actually speaking of which has anyone here seen the Steven Universe Movie and would you say it's worth watching? I thought the show wrapped up nicely so I have my reservations about what's essentially a glorified epilogue.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

How likely do people think Travis Touchdown is at this point?

 

[Idon]

How likely do people think Travis Touchdown is at this point?

Is there a way to go below zero percent?

 

[Nesysli]

Hey ppl I just stopped by to ask a question. So the negotiations for the next batch of DLC characters (I'm guessing 3-5 characters) are possibly in works of being decided on and/or starting on the negotiations for the IPs from the companies. A DLC character generally seems to take 2-3 months to release after there announcement. (Except Joker but he might be an exception.) So I'm thinking it might run all the way through till early 2021, meaning it'll run through E3 again. And I have to wonder what kind a character or possibly 2 characters could they release that'll really grab attention? I understand it's Smash and people will always eat it up and the character may not have to be necessarily be a show stopper. But Nintendo seems to really like to make a splash with these DLC reveals.

So maybe like a Geno or Sora reveal with a Crash Bandicoot reveal at the end? Doom Guy/Slayer or a Overwatch rep? I'd love Ryu Hayabusa to show up if he's not Fighter Pass #5. Crash and his series is pretty well received all around the world and his legacy would tie in nicely fighting with plumber boy and his comrades. (Plus seeing him in the same roster as Cloud and Snake would be amazing.) Geno would be awesome and (I'm not a fan of KoHs) Sora would surprise and make a lot of people happy. Though Square and Capcom have a lot of amazing IP's so any of them would be great. Crash & Ryu Hayabusa are probably the ones I'd like to see personally the most, but Bubble & Bobble would be so cool! Them in HD renders alongside Banjo, Yoshi, Kirby, Pikachu, etc. would fit in so nicely. And represent ole' Taito and Square thrice.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm glad we put aside subjective terms like iconography and deservedness and can now argue over the clearly objective quality of "charm".

Welcome to Smash Speculation.

Where there's a will, fans will devise arbitrary requirements to push their desired characters forward and shove down other characters.

 

[Aetheri]

How likely do people think Travis Touchdown is at this point?

I think he's a lot more likely than most people think.

First of all Suda 51 has been very vocal about wantting Travis in Smash, plus he's good friends with Sakurai.

On top of that NMH is a very relevant IP so it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint.

 

[Calamitas]

Actually speaking of which has anyone here seen the Steven Universe Movie and would you say it's worth watching? I thought the show wrapped up nicely so I have my reservations about what's essentially a glorified epilogue.

Spoiler: Spoilered for off-topic

It's pretty good. About the same level of quality as the show itself, I'd say. It's pretty nice to see everyone again after the two year time skip, it's got some great songs (especialyl the villain's introductory song), and the villain is a lot of fun. It's also pretty self-contained, so while we do know for certain that there'll be another season, it doesn't leave any plot threats or questions deliberately open. If I could level a criticism at it it's that the ending resolution can be a bit iffy based on how you read it, but it's overall still pretty great.

 

[Deleted member]

The way this whole charm or soul/soulless stuff is used is pretty much an obtuse way of saying thing I like or thing I don't like.

 

[Aetheri]

Hey ppl I just stopped by to ask a question. So the negotiations for the next batch of DLC characters (I'm guessing 3-5 characters) are possibly in works of being decided on and/or starting on the negotiations for the IPs from the companies. A DLC character generally seems to take 2-3 months to release after there announcement. (Except Joker but he might be an exception.) So I'm thinking it might run all the way through till early 2021, meaning it'll run through E3 again. And I have to wonder what kind a character or possibly 2 characters could they release that'll really grab attention? I understand it's Smash and people will always eat it up and the character may not have to be necessarily be a show stopper. But Nintendo seems to really like to make a splash with these DLC reveals.

So maybe like a Geno or Sora reveal with a Crash Bandicoot reveal at the end? Doom Guy/Slayer or a Overwatch rep? I'd love Ryu Hayabusa to show up if he's not Fighter Pass #5. Crash and his series is pretty well received all around the world and his legacy would tie in nicely fighting with plumber boy and his comrades. (Plus seeing him in the same roster as Cloud and Snake would be amazing.) Geno would be awesome and (I'm not a fan of KoHs) Sora would surprise and make a lot of people happy. Though Square and Capcom have a lot of amazing IP's so any of them would be great. Crash & Ryu Hayabusa are probably the ones I'd like to see personally the most, but Bubble & Bobble would be so cool! Them in HD renders alongside Banjo, Yoshi, Kirby, Pikachu, etc. would fit in so nicely. And represent ole' Taito and Square thrice.

The announcement said 'More DLC fighters are in development' which has me thinking its already past the negotiations stage at least for some of the additional fighters.

 

[Roberk]

Dark Souls is the most "soulful" series out there, it's literally in the name. This is why Artorias will be Fighter 5, because he has more s o u l than other candidates. You cannot refute this.

 

[cothero]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Milk-Boastu said something like 98 fighters, can someone translate that please?

Also, Mr. H's name is revealed to be Hashi.

Honestly, Vergeben is the only leaker we can fully trust at this point. There are others who eventually got one thing or two right, but none of them have such an impeccable track record as Verge has. Some of them are well-intentioned people who receives info from non-reliable sources, but most of them are just a bunch of hungry attention ******.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think he's a lot more likely than most people think.

First of all Suda 51 has been very vocal about wantting Travis in Smash, plus he's good friends with Sakurai.

On top of that NMH is a very relevant IP so it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint.

Not to mention a relevant Nintendo third-party. Every No More Heroes game debuted on Nintendo, Travis Strikes Back is exclusive to the Switch, and No More Heroes 3 is going to be exclusive to Swtich.

Dude's pretty much a Bayonetta-level third party when it comes to affinity with Nintendo. I could totally see him getting in, especially if we have another pass.

 

[Deleted member]

I would think it makes a bit more sense that rights negotiations are done already and they are not a part of Sakurai's budget if we are talking about third party characters. I would think it makes the process more difficult if Nintendo choses the characters and have Sakurai handle the negotiations and development.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Dark Souls is the most "soulful" series out there, it's literally in the name. This is why Artorias will be Fighter 5, because he has more s o u l than other candidates. You cannot refute this.

Nightmare has been eating souls since 1995, I'd say Soul Calibur gives Dark Souls a run for its money for having the most s o u l.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If you like a series and want it because it has charm that's great, but to use it as a point in favor of a series doesn't really lend itself to a strong argument.

I think how strong an argument it is varies from person to person.

You're basically trying to quantify abstract concepts and feelings here. And assuming that because you don't value something, it must not have value to anyone else.

Appeal is not a math equation that you can solve.

All I'm saying is that charm isn't "just a cheap tactic to make weak series stronger."

I think he was just making a Steven Universe reference. Not actually being a ****.

 

[Nesysli]

The announcement said 'More DLC fighters are in development' which has me thinking its already past the negotiations stage at least for some of the additional fighters.

That is true. I love how unpredictable Nintendo can be though. Like Travis Touchdown and Dante are popular choices that are often talked about but Nintendo always finds a way to still surprise me. Piranha Plant? Joker? Never would have thought those would happen.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Welcome to Smash Speculation.

Where there's a will, fans will devise arbitrary requirements to push their desired characters forward and shove down other characters.

It's true, it's the Modus Operandi of Doomguy's Dance Club.

So, what was Sakurai actually saying that was translated as "souls"?

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

Travis Touchdown

popular choice

As some one who wants Travis in this game, he is not remotely close to being a popular choice lol[/QUOTE]

 

[Garteam]

We already have our soul base covered with all the poor souls in the Banjo pack.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The whispers of light. They speak to me...

The way this whole charm or soul/soulless stuff is used is pretty much an obtuse way of saying thing I like or thing I don't like.

It really only applies to characters that don't have a personality (like Mega Man). Even then though I'm sure they'll find someway to make them interesting.

 

[N3ON]

Travis would've been the kind of character to have gotten a lot of love during the ballot had he not been dormant at that time. Back then the support for Nintendo-oriented, less realistic characters was strong, and Travis fits that mold.

Then this time, Travis again would've had more popularity (maybe not a lot, but more) had Suda51 not deconfirmed him almost right off the bat. Really what Suda should've done is been vague about it like Pete Hines, that would've baited the speculation machine quite successfully.

But as it is, Travis is just a character that has had a lot hindering his potential popularity. That said, when NMH3 actually gets closer to release, it'll pick up. And I certainly wouldn't put his chances at "less than zero". Him getting included is not inconceivable, especially if Suda51 stays persistent.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

How likely do people think Travis Touchdown is at this point?

I'd say pretty damn likely for a whole variety of reasons. No More Heroes has become the cult classic that just keeps going in a lot of ways. No More Heroes 1 and 2 were often considered among the best third party titles on the Wii, and occasionally even just straight up some of the best titles on the Wii. Then he went silent for a decade and then has come back in a major way. It's easy to forget that Suda was on board with the Switch from the start and was one of the few to show up on the Nintendo Switch unveiling they did way back in January 2017 to announce a new No More Heroes type game. Then you have Travis Strikes Back as an exclusive. Then Suda again got a big spot in E3 2019 with the No More Heroes 3 announcement. Nintendo clearly respects him as a developer and partner to Nintendo if they're giving him these prime-time slots. And No More Heroes is a successful IP in its own right with a number of fans and it's likely to see ports of No More Heroes 1 and 2 to Switch sooner rather than later based on Suda's comments.

Then you have Suda absolutely begging to get Travis in Smash and being a close friend of Sakurai's. That was enough to get Snake into Smash in the first place with Kojima, so there's at least some sort of of precedent for this sort of thing. Hell, Suda gets a special thanks in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's credits too already. If Sakurai intends to have Smash be this museum of Japanese gaming, Suda should be a meaningful place in that museum, so there's that aspect too that makes him an even better choice.

Honestly, I think Travis Touchdown has one of the best chances of coming to fruition during this upcoming DLC. His games are niche, but that's the only real thing running against him as an inclusion in Smash, and I could definitely see his inclusion in Smash serving as this crossover appearance to boost awareness and sales like Hero has been (Not saying Hero was included only for that reason, nor am I saying Travis would be included solely for that reason, but characters in Smash do stand to benefit developers and publishers is all I'm saying). Besides, Smash can't just be heavy hitting third parties for super long (I mean it can, but I imagine if we were to get a second Fighter's Pass with stuff like Sora and Crash, you'd need someone a little less expensive and massive to even things out for example).

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I wonder tho if travis gets in would he get to do this and it would suck that people would call him weeb bait and AnImE swordfighter but this guy is awesome regardless

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I wonder tho if travis gets in would he get to do this and it would suck that people would call him weeb bait and AnImE swordfighter but this guy is awesome regardless

The best part about people calling him weeb bait or an anime swordsman is that it's literally the joke of No More Heroes lol.

 

[Garteam]

I honestly hate that the "all sword characters are alike" narrative is still thriving. The most unique character we've seen all Fighter's Pass is also the only Sword user in the pack. It's not a weapon choice that makes a character unique, its what they can do with the weapon relative to others that makes them unique.

 

[perfectchaos83]

They later said the female was FP5. FP4’s publisher pre-Terry “hasn’t appeared yet” (which makes sense since it was later revealed to be SNK, a new company joining Smash) while FP5’s “already appeared”. And since Terry is still in development it’s possible that FP5’s development started a bit sooner and Hashi showed Milk FP5, who they mistook for FP4.

Also would 98 fighters line up with the remaining WoL slots, or would it account for more? Also does that number count the Miis/Echoes/P. Trainer’s Pokémon?

Again, Milk's claims make no sense in regards to the timeline as we know it. The "female" character was first spoken of in November/December of last year when only Joker, Hero and Banjo were in active development. Characters 4 and 5 were very likely not even started till around the time Joker Launched or soon after. This also neglects that his source went to "Nintendo" and saw this and not "Namco". The only possible way Milk's claims can be valid is if Kasumi was indeed an alt for Joker that simply got scrapped.

The dummy slots in the CSS also constitute alternate costumes (Joker takes two, Hero takes four, Bowser Jr. takes eight, etc.). The WoL slots constitute playable characters.

See, this would be believable if the alts were actually on the hastebin. They aren't.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I recently got my hands on Spyro: Reignited Trilogy and...I didn't think it was possible for the act of playing a character's game to make me want the character less. The games themselves aren't bad (though the load times are atrocious), but the general atmosphere makes me feel like the target audience is a bunch of 5 year olds. That's not a bad thing mind you, but I couldn't really get into it past the first game. Also the camera's pretty awful too.

I wouldn't hate his inclusion by any means, and I would probably enjoy playing as a dragon that doesn't have weird feet hooves, but I don't have any enthusiasm for him at the moment.

Is there a way to go below zero percent?

No. It causes an integer overflow and places his chances at 1337%.

 

[Nesysli]

As some one who wants Travis in this game, he is not remotely close to being a popular choice lol

I don't know dude, apparently the creator of No More Heroes is great friends with Sakurai and even pitched Travis to him. (Kojima is his friend and we have Snake, whoever owns Bayonetta is also a good friend and she is in.) Combine that with the 3rd installment coming out soon & Travis already having a niche but strong fanbase. He seems like a really good candidate that might up and surprise people.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

The best part about people calling him weeb bait or an anime swordsman is that it's literally the joke of No More Heroes lol.

man do i want him more now just to see comments like WHO ASKED FOR THIS or LITERALLY WHO?!!!? but at this point i just wish more smash fans played more games

 

[OrpheusTelos]

All this talk about soul and everyone's forgetting to bring up Undertale, the game where you literally control your own SOUL during battles. Anyway, here's how Frisk can still win...

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Also Katamari Damacy translates to clump SOUL/Spirit

Dragonborn has the SOUL of a dragon and can absorb other dragon SOULS to unlock new shouts.

 

[TheYungLink]

Hollow Knight is a game all about manipulating SOUL to fuel magic attacks. It's one of the best sidescrolling adventure games I've ever played meaning they're 100% likely for Smash as well.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Why are we talking about Souls? Wasn't that part of the Banjo & Kazooie presentation just really bad translating lol?

 

[Deleted member]

Why are we talking about Souls? Wasn't that part of the Banjo & Kazooie presentation just really bad translating lol?

What did Sakurai said originally?

 

[TheCJBrine]

> Souls
> Minecraft has Soulsand
> Soulsand is made of souls
> Soulsand (and wither skeleton skulls) is used to summon the Wither
> The Wither is basically made of souls

You thought the Ender Dragon was a boss...

BUT IT WAS ME,

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If you look at the crack on Shedinja's back it'll steal your SOU-Dangit! Someone posted something new. Now the chain is broken!

 

[EricTheGamerman]

What did Sakurai said originally?

From what I can gather it was just a general nod to unfortunate people or people in bad situations in the original Japanese, and the translator just went with poor souls to communicate that sentiment. Souls isn't something inherently in Sakurai's commentary.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think how strong an argument it is varies from person to person.

You're basically trying to quantify abstract concepts and feelings here. And assuming that because you don't value something, it must not have value to anyone else.

Appeal is not a math equation that you can solve.

That's a fair point. Well met.

I think charm can be a factor, but I'd personally classify it as a sub-factor for something like popularity. Persona 5 has overwhelming charm, and that clearly shows given how Ultimate is influenced by it (The Menu and cut-ins during Final Smashes). However, I would say the charm of the game isn't what got it into Smash so much as it contributed to the game's popularity and influence, which is what helped get it into Smash. In that way, it's a factor, but not anywhere near a large enough factor to be used as a large point in arguments.

That's just my take though.

 

[Nemuresu]

Being sincere with Sora, I'm pretty sure Sakurai would've already talked about him if he wasn't a workable character, considering he's in the top 3 of most polls around.

But since he never mentions him in the same phrase as Goku, I'm led to believe he's just as much of a fair game as any other video game character out there.