Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

To be fair, I believe Sakurai stated that he gives to musicians free reign to choose whichever songs they want to remix. Which is why there where particularly many Castlevania and Fire Emblem remixes in this game.

I guess Jungle Hijinx was a particularly popular song to remix multiple times over anything else from the DK series for some reason...

Fire Emblem was because 1 person was a huge fan on the music team iirc, CastleVania and Mega Man were popular among the whole team

 

[KatKit]

All this Sora talk is pointless since theres only 1 Square character that should be in but none of you have the guts to admit it.



Gex should and will be in.

List of things that ain't, chief:

1. It

Though if we're listing joke SquareEnix picks that nobody has mentioned on this website: Max from Life is Strange.

But in all seriousness, on the subject of SquareEnix, I wish we somehow got this song into Smash.

 

[NurpNurp]

To be fair, I believe Sakurai stated that he gives to musicians free reign to choose whichever songs they want to remix. Which is why there where particularly many Castlevania and Fire Emblem remixes in this game.

I guess Jungle Hijinx was a particularly popular song to remix multiple times over anything else from the DK series for some reason...

cries in Whims of Fate just that one song was all I wanted from Persona 5 and it hurts not having it

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Donkey kong did get a lot of very good music in Ultimate. I still thinks there's a lack ok Tropical freeze music but overall it's not that bad.

Aside from Final fantasy, I think the franchises with the weakest music selection is Earthbound. Coming from a jrpg franchisesz you would expect a lot of battles theme or boss themes, but there's only one. There's still a lot of very good remixes, but when you think about it it's just a very weird selection.

 

[SKX31]

Tomb Raider sells fairly poorly in Japan, so I think that hurts her more than people recognize. She's not the same icon over there that she is to the Western PS1 generation. She's barely even a "Square Enix" rep too since she's an acquisition of a western company (Eidos), so I don't really think if we got her that would somehow rule out other Square Enix options.

She's certainly a good option, but much like Doom Guy, I think the lack of Japanese appeal is her biggest hurdle and may stop her from being as obvious as an inclusion as people in the West think.

I'm honestly not too sure if Japanese (un)familiarity will be as big of a factor as past Smash games. Not saying that it won't be one factor, but I could see two reasons for it being less important;

1. Furukawa (and other Nintendo execs) want to expand Nintendo on a global scale inch by inch. They did write the DLC list for Sakurai to choose from after all. So I wouldn't be surprised if Furukawa sees Ultimate's DLC as one of the many tools meant to grow Nintendo's presence in new places. Furukawa's not expecting mega successes in new places, but any new fan counts. Even if the Nintendo execs expect that to be slow.

I won't contest that Japanese-made characters, or characters popular in Japan will take a large amount of DLC spots at least. If not the lion's share. However, Sakurai also aknowledges the wider video game industry. If he's praised Carmack, Halo 2 and Half-Life 2 in the past, I see no reason to believe that Sakurai haven't considered negotiating for one - if not all - of them. There are also other ideas Furukawa and co. may have suggested.

Furukawa certainly doesn't mind Sakurai having the final say - Nintendo's president is a-OK with the current DLC roster after all. Still, I would not doubt that he has suggested at least a couple characters not popular in Japan for consideration. And Sakurai might have considered at least a couple slots. Maybe a bit more.

We'll have a clearer picture by the time DLC #8 or so (with FP5 being #6 total, Plant included) rolls around.

2. Related to the above: the Switch's (and Smash's presumably) upcoming Chinese release. Depending on how that goes it could impact Ultimate's DLC selection, especially if we're in it for the long haul. A lot of China's favorites are also known worldwide (Steve, Tracer, MOBA rep etc.) like Terry and Sans who are already in the game.

For the record, the current console record is a measly 1 million or so there due to the 15 year long console ban. Anything north of 5 million is IMHO on the optimistic side - but it looks to be the doable kind of optimistic. If there's no region lock on the Chinese Switch though, then the chances of the Switch becoming a mega-success there - effectively making China Nintendo's fourth major region - shoots up. That alone could impact Ultimate's later DLC if the DLC goes on long enough.

 

[RoboFist]

If Sora isn't a Square Enix character, then he's not (intra-company) competition for Neku. Neku confirmed for Smash!

Don't.

Don't give me hope.

 

[Deleted member]

2. Related to the above: the Switch's (and Smash's presumably) upcoming Chinese release. Depending on how that goes it could impact Ultimate's DLC selection, especially if we're in it for the long haul. A lot of China's favorites are also known worldwide (Steve, Tracer, MOBA rep etc.) like Terry and Sans who are already in the game.

For the record, the current console record is a measly 1 million or so there due to the 15 year long console ban. Anything north of 5 million is IMHO on the optimistic side - but it looks to be the doable kind of optimistic. If there's no region lock on the Chinese Switch though, then the chances of the Switch becoming a mega-success there - effectively making China Nintendo's fourth major region - shoots up. That alone could impact Ultimate's later DLC if the DLC goes on long enough.

It kinda makes me wonder how popular Dynasty Warriors and the ROTK strategy games are in China. I don't think they're on the level of the amount of MOBAs out there, but I imagine it's still pretty popular over there.

 

[SKX31]

It kinda makes me wonder how popular Dynasty Warriors and the ROTK strategy games are in China. I don't think they're on the level of the amount of MOBAs out there, but I imagine it's still pretty popular over there.

DW has at least a pretty good presence there. Enough for Chinese VOs in the games and a DW movie. One comment even pointed out this:

The game has gained its reputation on the Chinese internet as 割草无双 (Mowing Musou/Wushuang). Musou is the Latin letter transliteration of the Japanese Kanji word 無雙, which retained the original Chinese meaning from the Chinese word 無雙 (Wushuang): unparalleled. or unrivaled. Basically, people tease the games by saying the enemy soldiers are like grass, and the warrior controlled by the player is simply to mow them off. Still, only popular games get teased a lot, so you can see how people actually love them.

I'll have to research that further just to confirm, but overall DW's presence in China can only help its chances IMHO.

Also, Total War: Three Kingdoms did really well over there, so yea, it basically confirms that good ROTK games always have a major presence there. Romance of the Three Kingdoms is different from Records of the Three Kingdoms (an actual historical document), so that helps a lot really. People can already tell by the title that it's a fictionalization.

 

[Calamitas]

Yanno, not to sour the entire mood here, but this whole "this company/video games series sells well in this region of the world, so obviously a character from that game needs/is going to be in Smash" line of thinking? That sounds like a pretty damn soulless way to approach DLC characters for a Smash game.

 

[Izanagi97]

Donkey kong did get a lot of very good music in Ultimate. I still thinks there's a lack ok Tropical freeze music but overall it's not that bad.

Aside from Final fantasy, I think the franchises with the weakest music selection is Earthbound. Coming from a jrpg franchisesz you would expect a lot of battles theme or boss themes, but there's only one. There's still a lot of very good remixes, but when you think about it it's just a very weird selection.

Meanwhile, I'm a little annoyed at Metroid's music selection if only because some games have very little music (hell, Corruption still has no songs, Prime 1 only got 1 new remix that replaced a rip along with a previous remix returning, and Echoes and Fusion have been stuck with the same song since Brawl)

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe this is unrelated but I also feel the Metroid music selection is very strange... I mean, I like it but there's a strong lack of not only Prime music but also other music from other games like Fusion or Zero Mission. The fact they chose the song of the multiplayer of Prime 2 to represent it never ceases to amaze me... in a bad way, I mean.

Speaking of the music from Prime 2's Multiplayer, where's my Upper Brinstar from Super? Prime 2's version doesn't match the funkiness of the original.

How many remixes of Jungl Hijinx are there? Apparently not enough for Sakurai

I would tell you it's actually called DK Island Swing, but Nintendo keeps on changing the name of the DKC1 songs every single game. In Ultimate, DK Island Swing is called Jungle Level, Simian Segue is called The Map Page, and the Brawl Version of Gangplank Galleon is called King K. Rool / Ship Deck 2.

To be fair, I believe Sakurai stated that he gives the musicians free reign to choose whichever songs they want to remix. Which is why there where particularly many Castlevania and Fire Emblem remixes in this game.

I guess Jungle Hijinx was a particularly popular song to remix multiple times over anything else from the DK series for some reason...

I'm pretty sure that was just for Ultimate, not every game in the series.

 

[SKX31]

Yanno, not to sour the entire mood here, but this whole "this company/video games series sells well in this region of the world, so obviously a character from that game needs/is going to be in Smash" line of thinking? That sounds like a pretty damn soulless way to approach DLC characters for a Smash game.

No worries, it's understandable.

I'm not trying to say it's going to be the only factor - what I'm trying to say is, Nintendo execs are gonna look at that and suggest perhaps a couple such characters. Sakurai's reasons for picking a character will be different of course, but Sakurai and Furukawa are gonna agree on a character before going for it.

Their reasons are gonna differ somewhat, but Furukawa is, again, someone who grew up with the Famicom and loyal to Nintendo. He's going to understand what Sakurai goes for, even if Furukawa might offer options some might consider soulless. Hell, my favorite game getting in would be seen as soulless by many people here, not least since its influence is mostly felt in non-Nintendo places (Russia, Southeast Asia).

 

[DarthEnderX]

To be fair..Nomura was only in charge of Final Fantasy VII's art..he wasn't in charge of a game's storyline until Kingdom Hearts (though I disagree..but I could understand your view considering how confusing and convoluted the storyline of Kingdom Hearts can be..)

I'm not confused. I know what's going on. It's just all really dumb.

Beyond that, we also don't know how much budget Sakurai has left; which does apply for all future characters, but it especially applies in this case.

I'm pretty sure when they decided to do more DLC beyond the Fighters Pass that Nintendo assigned him additional budget accordingly.

Anyone else appreciate the irony of a dude with a Pokemon avi saying annualisation is awful?

Actual new Pokemon games only come out every 2-3 years. In between it's all cheap updates and remakes.

 

[Us3inMN]

In response to all the comments I got about my thoughts on Geno, this is what I say:

I wasn't trying to offend fans of Geno getting in Smash and I understand that nostalgia can be great. I was just saying my thoughts on the character.

I've never played Legend of the Seven Stars (I've been meaning to, but haven't had time), I'm just going off how people view him around the internet and some clips of gameplay. I just don't really see all the unique gameplay aspects he could give.

Then again, the f**king Plant is a character so anything goes at this point. And I would still buy Geno if he was a fighter, because I'm going full completionist mode.

 

[Flyboy]

Yanno, not to sour the entire mood here, but this whole "this company/video games series sells well in this region of the world, so obviously a character from that game needs/is going to be in Smash" line of thinking? That sounds like a pretty damn soulless way to approach DLC characters for a Smash game.

The thing is I don't think that's the intention. It's more that it opens up more doors for fans of more niche properties - like we see with SNK, or fans of the Warriors games. For me, I'm a fan of Ace Attorney, sim games, and puzzle games, so the idea that Nintendo might be looking at different demographics for possible DLC fighters is exciting to me as a Puyo Puyo, Phoenix Wright, and Professor Layton supporter. It's all in the intention, see?

 

[BZL8]

You do know that Phil Spencer isn't the CEO of Microsoft, right? Not exactly parallels. I doubt Bob Iger can even name Sora.

I am aware that Spencer isn't the CEO (that belongs to Nadella). The reason I said Iger was because he is Disney's most prominent public figure like Spencer is to Microsoft.

 

[SNEKeater]

Meanwhile, I'm a little annoyed at Metroid's music selection if only because some games have very little music (hell, Corruption still has no songs, Prime 1 only got 1 new remix that replaced a rip along with a previous remix returning, and Echoes and Fusion have been stuck with the same song since Brawl)

Yeah. Maybe it's because Sakurai or the music team he has doesn't see the Metroid games post Super that important in terms of music, or something like that. Also I guess this has to do with the perception of some people of "retro/classic games are always better than the new ones", and that line of thinking is sad. The exception for this would be Mario and Zelda.

Prime trilogy music or the soundtracks from Fusion and Zero Mission are great, I consider some of these soundtracks superior to the music of Super Metroid.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

The thing is I don't think that's the intention. It's more that it opens up more doors for fans of more niche properties - like we see with SNK, or fans of the Warriors games. For me, I'm a fan of Ace Attorney, sim games, and puzzle games, so the idea that Nintendo might be looking at different demographics for possible DLC fighters is exciting to me as a Puyo Puyo, Phoenix Wright, and Professor Layton supporter. It's all in the intention, see?

I honesty think that this is what Nintendo is going for upcoming dlc/fighters pass 2.

 

[andree123]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Milk-Boastu said something like 98 fighters, can someone translate that please?

Also, Mr. H's name is revealed to be Hashi.

 

[Opossum]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Milk-Boastu said something like 98 fighters, can someone translate that please?

Also, Mr. H's name is revealed to be Hashi.

Weren't they the same person that said Terry would be a female fighter with a projectile?

 

[osby]

Yanno, not to sour the entire mood here, but this whole "this company/video games series sells well in this region of the world, so obviously a character from that game needs/is going to be in Smash" line of thinking? That sounds like a pretty damn soulless way to approach DLC characters for a Smash game.

Is it? I think it's nice to see my wants won't be ignored just because I'm not from US or Japan.

I don't see what's soulless about trying to make a more diverse group of fans happy.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Weren't they the same person that said Terry would be a female fighter with a projectile?

They later said the female was FP5. FP4’s publisher pre-Terry “hasn’t appeared yet” (which makes sense since it was later revealed to be SNK, a new company joining Smash) while FP5’s “already appeared”. And since Terry is still in development it’s possible that FP5’s development started a bit sooner and Hashi showed Milk FP5, who they mistook for FP4.

Also would 98 fighters line up with the remaining WoL slots, or would it account for more? Also does that number count the Miis/Echoes/P. Trainer’s Pokémon?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

They later said the female was FP5. FP4’s publisher pre-Terry “hasn’t appeared yet” while FP5’s “already appeared”. And since Terry is still in development it’s possible that FP5’s development started a bit sooner and Hashi showed Milk FP5, who they mistook for FP4.

Also would 98 fighters line up with the remaining WoL slots, or would it account for more? Also does that number count the Miis/Echoes/P. Trainer’s Pokémon?

That's way more than our 16. If I recall correctly, the 16 slots put us to around 85 fighters total.

Yanno, not to sour the entire mood here, but this whole "this company/video games series sells well in this region of the world, so obviously a character from that game needs/is going to be in Smash" line of thinking? That sounds like a pretty damn soulless way to approach DLC characters for a Smash game.

You see, that's the thing about Smash Bros. speculation. A lot of people think the Smash Bros. character selection is full of heart and soul, and while heart and soul is certainly there, at the end of the day Nintendo is a business and needs to sell DLC fighters for Smash Bros. They also want to expand their install base and draw in new fans, which is where region-specific picks come into play.

You gotta think about speculation pragmatically.

 

[Opossum]

They later said the female was FP5. FP4’s publisher pre-Terry “hasn’t appeared yet” while FP5’s “already appeared”. And since Terry is still in development it’s possible that FP5’s development started a bit sooner and Hashi showed Milk FP5, who they mistook for FP4.

Also would 98 fighters line up with the remaining WoL slots, or would it account for more? Also does that number count the Miis/Echoes/P. Trainer’s Pokémon?

If you have to stretch that far for it to work, it's not a reliable source.

They said 4 was a female fighting game character with a projectile and 5 was one from an existing franchise. Terry fits neither, so they're an unreliable source and should be ignored.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

They later said the female was FP5. FP4’s publisher pre-Terry “hasn’t appeared yet” (which makes sense since it was later revealed to be SNK, a new company joining Smash) while FP5’s “already appeared”. And since Terry is still in development it’s possible that FP5’s development started a bit sooner and Hashi showed Milk FP5, who they mistook for FP4.

Also would 98 fighters line up with the remaining WoL slots, or would it account for more? Also does that number count the Miis/Echoes/P. Trainer’s Pokémon?

After they were wrong about #4, so I don't see why anybody gives Milk the time of day when they didn't have anything going for them beforehand.

98 fighters would be another 16 characters post Fighter's Pass (this is assuming we're talking total number of fighters which means Pokemon Trainer as 3 individual fighters and the 7 Echoes are still counted, which puts us at a total of 82 upon the completion of the Fighter's Pass), which would be more than the 10 WoL slots that will be unfilled post Fighter's Pass.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Weren't they the same person that said Terry would be a female fighter with a projectile?

Yeah, at this point, I don't think we should be taking this person's posts as hints. They were posting about how "their premonition was going to be realised" right before the Direct, but backpedaled immediately after Terry's reveal, saying it was Challenger Pack 5 instead.

Is it? I think it's nice to see my wants won't be ignored just because I'm not from US or Japan.

I don't see what's soulless about trying to make a more diverse group of fans happy.

... Well, as someone who also isn't from US or Japan, I think there are several other reasons why Terry and SNK came to Smash other than regional appeal, for example. I mean, obviously it's an important factor, but I don't think it should be the argument to end all discussions. It's just like sales.

The series that are considered "niche" also have other things to let them stand on their own. And while I cannot speak for Calamitas, that's what I got from their post.

 

[Calamitas]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Milk-Boastu said something like 98 fighters, can someone translate that please?

Also, Mr. H's name is revealed to be Hashi.

Didn't that person delete their twitter? I remember hearing something like that around the Direct.

 

[SKX31]

They later said the female was FP5. FP4’s publisher pre-Terry “hasn’t appeared yet” while FP5’s “already appeared”. And since Terry is still in development it’s possible that FP5’s development started a bit sooner and Hashi showed Milk FP5, who they mistook for FP4.

Also would 98 fighters line up with the remaining WoL slots, or would it account for more? Also does that number count the Miis/Echoes/P. Trainer’s Pokémon?

Found this, since I vaguely remembered it (AFAIK this is pre-Plant release):

https://hastebin.com/opokenuwer.css

Close to 30 dummy slots in the CSS, 16 of which were activated in WoL. The dummy slots are likely "in case" and would possibly make for a whooping 5 Fighter Passes' worth of DLC. It's why the WoL slots made a lot of noise in the first place: They were activated.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

The series that are considered "niche" also have other things to let them stand on their own. And while I cannot speak for Calamitas, that's what I got from their post.

Do they though?

I hate to be that guy, but what do more niche series have that let them compare to more popular ones?

I'm genuinely curious.

Found this, since I vaguely remembered it (AFAIK this is pre-Plant release):

https://hastebin.com/opokenuwer.css

Close to 30 dummy slots in the CSS, 16 of which were activated in WoL. The dummy slots are likely "in case" and would possibly make for a whooping 5 Fighter Passes' worth of DLC. It's why the WoL slots made a lot of noise in the first place: They were activated.

The dummy slots in the CSS also constitute alternate costumes (Joker takes two, Hero takes four, Bowser Jr. takes eight, etc.). The WoL slots constitute playable characters.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Do they though?

I hate to be that guy, but what do more niche series have that let them compare to more popular ones?

I'm genuinely curious.

Depends on what series we're talking about. Some gained fan demand over the years. Some have history with Nintendo or were influential in their time. Some... are simply liked by the people at Nintendo. There are several ways a character could make it to Smash, at the end of the day. You say it yourself in some write-ups, it's a combination of different factors.

Since I used Terry as an example: people on the SNK threads (myself included) often talked about:

• How Fatal Fury and KoF influenced Smash's mechanics (shield breaking, rolling, spot dodging, etc) and how Sakurai seemed to be a fan.
• SNK also played a big part in arcade fighting game history, even if they went through a very turbulent period afterwards.
• Finally, they still had a good relationship with Nintendo (and the interest to back it up, because old SNK games sold well at the beginning of the Switch's life cycle) and an interest in putting their characters as guests in other fighting games.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that sure, it's important to take regional appeal into account (that was certainly another factor for Terry), but it doesn't sound like a good idea to speculate just off of that.

EDIT: ... for one, I don't think most people here would have called a character from SNK if we were just going from that standpoint. I can see people pointing to MOBAs and other popular online and mobile games, but ignoring SNK despite all of the other factors I said. That may be just a trait of Smashboards, however.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

After they were wrong about #4, so I don't see why anybody gives Milk the time of day when they didn't have anything going for them beforehand.

98 fighters would be another 16 characters post Fighter's Pass (this is assuming we're talking total number of fighters which means Pokemon Trainer as 3 individual fighters and the 7 Echoes are still counted, which puts us at a total of 82 upon the completion of the Fighter's Pass), which would be more than the 10 WoL slots that will be unfilled post Fighter's Pass.

If it means anything, Dragon Ball FighterZ added new placeholders post-Janemba update that weren’t there in the base game nor after Jiren and Videl were added. Take that as you will.

If you have to stretch that far for it to work, it's not a reliable source.

They said 4 was a female fighting game character with a projectile and 5 was one from an existing franchise. Terry fits neither, so they're an unreliable source and should be ignored.

I don’t recall the bolded part being actually stated by Milk though? That was just largely an assumption based on the list that was as follows (paraphrasing the translation):

1. Joker from Persona 5 (Publisher: Atlus, hasn’t previously appeared)
2. Hero from Dragon Quest XI (Publisher: Square Enix)
3. Banjo & Kazooie (Publisher: Rare)
4. ???? (publisher not present yet)
5. ???? (Publisher already appeared)

It can be implied the kanji in the parentheses after the character means “publisher”. And SNK is a publisher that “hadn’t appeared” prior to Terry’s reveal. As for why Rare didn’t say “hasn’t previously appeared”, it’s probably due to the Perfect Dark Promixity Sensor in the JP version of SSBM (look it up on TCRF) or the cut Rare Spirits pre-Banjo with leftover data.

As for the female, I believe Milk only said she looked like she belonged in a fighting game. I believe Hashi confirmed it wasn’t Nakoruru either, which people assumed the female was at first.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If it means anything, Dragon Ball FighterZ added new placeholders post-Janemba update that weren’t there in the base game nor after Jiren and Videl were added. Take that as you will.


I don’t recall the bolded part being actually stated by Milk though? That was just largely an assumption based on the list that was as follows (paraphrasing the translation):


It can be implied the kanji in the parentheses after the character means “publisher”. And SNK is a publisher that “hadn’t appeared” prior to Terry’s reveal.

As for the female, I believe Milk only said she looked like she belonged in a fighting game. I believe Hashi confirmed it wasn’t Nakoruru either, which people assumed the female was at first.

inb4 we get Female Terry as an alt costume.

 

[The_Naraotor]

inb4 we get Female Terry as an alt costume.

Inb4r fan will goes nuts !!!

What bothers me the most is to have a lack of F-Zero and Earthbound characters. Just two for F-Zero and One for Earthbound to have at least the main vilain of each series and a side character for F-Zero. It's not much ask I think ?

 

[osby]

What bothers me the most is to have a lack of F-Zero and Earthbound characters. Just two for F-Zero and One for Earthbound to have at least the main vilain of each series and a side character for F-Zero. It's not much ask I think ?

For two dead/finished series that never exactly topped the sales charts? Apparently.

Why people think those two deserves special treatment just because they were in Smash 64? Earthbound is actually in a pretty good spot for such a niche franchise.

Also why we need main villains for the sake of having main villains?

 

[M@R!3]

As a fan of Metroid, the Prime Trilogy and Dark Samus...And as a big supporter of the character during Smash 4's DLC. And as someone who's pretty much made her a dedicated secondary.

I can say that while being an echo isn't ideal because she has a vast array of abilities that Samus can't even touch, the only real complaint I have regarding Dark Samus in Smash Ultimate is the lack of her theme and her iconic laugh as a taunt or victory screen.

I've played through the Prime games many, many times. The only reason I can come up with for Dark Samus not having her laugh is that she didn't do it in Prime 3 (at least not that I can remember), which was clearly the source material for everything about her in Smash given her appearance and dark echo victory screen. What that doesn't explain is the disturbing, unforgivable lack of one of the most intimidating boss themes Nintendo has.

 

[Aetheri]

I've played through the Prime games many, many times. The only reason I can come up with for Dark Samus not having her laugh is that she didn't do it in Prime 3 (at least not that I can remember), which was clearly the source material for everything about her in Smash given her appearance and dark echo victory screen. What that doesn't explain is the disturbing, unforgivable lack of one of the most intimidating boss themes Nintendo has.

She does it during the boss fight actually. When she is recovering health in the first phase and also during the AU 313 boss phase.

It is easy to miss if you're not paying attention. Its a lot more obvious in Prime 2 since she does it during cutscenes.

 

[The_Naraotor]

For two dead/finished series that never exactly topped the sales charts? Apparently.

Why people think those two deserves special treatment just because they were in Smash 64? Earthbound is actually in a pretty good spot for such a niche franchise.

Also why we need main villains for the sake of having main villains?

For me it's all about fairness.

 

[osby]

For me it's all about fairness.

Why fairness for those two series specifically? Like, why not a second Xenoblade or Pikmin character?

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Why fairness for those two series specifically? Like, why not a second Xenoblade or Pikmin character?

Exactly! Where the h*** is Louie? He'd make such a great and easy echo! D:
Plus as a Pikmin fan, we don't get much attention. We don't get the sympathy that F-Zero gets nor the well-loved cult classic smaller series status that Earthbound gets, and there's no anime appeal to get the modern Smash fanbase on board. It's a very uncomfortable in-between that nobody pays attention to.
Furthermore after Brawl we only got one remix per game, and as of Ultimate only one character (with an alt) and two stages, while Earthbound has two characters and all four of their Smash stages in-game, with plenty of music. Though in the content department I do feel bad for F-Zero fans as well since their new stuff is usually nostalgia stuff.

 

[Curious Villager]

Earthbound has had two characters, two assist trophies and four stages, plus two of each party members also show up in both boy's final Smashes for some added fanservice.

As Osby said, for such a niche franchise, Earthbound has had it pretty good in Smash. At least compared to a number of other franchises...