Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[N3ON]

I can tell you that if every costume came with music, I'd be buying a lot more of them. Spirits, well those would be easier to live without.

 

[lady_sky skipper]

It's worth mentioning that Square Enix owns Taito, a classic a hugely influential arcade game developer. I really think they should add Bub & Bob in deference to their legacy. Plus they would make for a super fun, Ice Climbers-style character.

I'm still skeptical about another Western character being added until I'm proven otherwise. I think Banjo was an exception. Not because Sakurai has some ideological opposition against it, just because dealing with Western companies is a lot more work and probably not a priority when there are Japanese alternatives available.

I do think Arc System Works will lend Kunio for inclusion in Smash.

That would be a pretty good idea having a Taito rep in Smash Ultimate and Bub and Bob are the logical choice. Heck, the Space Invaders would make a pretty cool Assist Trophy. Although if a Space Invader became a fighter it would be amusing to see it fight.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I can tell you that if every costume came with music, I'd be buying a lot more of them. Spirits, well those would be easier to live without.

Facts.

If Zero's Mii costume came with Cyber Maze Core/Zero Stage 2 from MMX5, I would've bought him along with Sans.

 

[Nemuresu]

After what happened a few hours ago, I wish Sakurai made an Ash Mii Costume. I know it probably won't ever happen because of anime shenanigans, but still.

 

[Renjamin]

Do any Rabbids have Spirits and the question still remains whether they deconfirm characters or not and whether Sakurai can upgrade Spirits and Assists.

There are but they're the ones dressed up as Mario characters, not the generic ones

 

[DevaAshera]

After what happened a few hours ago, I wish Sakurai made an Ash Mii Costume. I know it probably won't ever happen because of anime shenanigans, but still.

I mean, we already have the originator of Ash, Red, in the game, so Ash is kinda unneeded.

 

[TheYungLink]

Would have been cool if Goemon's Mii costume came with a track from the Legend of the Mystical Ninja games.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Would have been cool if Goemon's Mii costume came with a track from the Legend of the Mystical Ninja games.

Yeah it's odd that they had the theme from the famicom game but added nothing to smash. I guess adding Megalovania was a lot easier as the creator, rights holder and musician is the same guy.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah it's odd that they had the theme from the famicom game but added nothing to smash. I guess adding Megalovania was a lot easier as the creator, rights holder and musician is the same guy.

And also, Toby Fox is already working with Game Freak on Little Town Hero, so it was easy for Nintendo to contact him.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Started playing Astral Chain today, and its great. Really loving it. Soundtrack is great, the Legions are dope, game is overall fun, Akira Howard for Smash please and thank you John Miyamoto get to it right now.

 

[-crump-]

I really hope the Mii Costume + Music track deal isn’t a one time thing. I literally never use Miis, but I bought the Sans Costume just for Megalovania, and I’d do the same for any other ones they want to sell.

Fingers crossed for a Shovel Knight Costume with Strike the Earth, or any track from the game.
(I still very much wish he was playable but I’ll take what I can get...)

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is that really such an important thing? Most people don't really care that much about Spirits to begin with

It just doesn't feel complete without them.

Everything in the game pre-DLC had a Spirit, and some DLC content is getting Spirits, but other DLC content isn't. And they DO periodically add additional Spirits(Mario Party, Labo, Link's Awakening, etc.) So if they're going to add music from franchises that are otherwise totally unrepresented in Smash, I don't know why they couldn't throw in some Spirits too.

Again, why put the effort in there when there are probably better avenues for it?

Spirit battles don't seem like much effort is required given that they're made up entirely of pre-existing assets. Characters already in the game, with modifiers that are already in the game, on a stage that's already in the game, with music that's already in the game, using a jpeg that was probably made a decade ago.

I really hope the Mii Costume + Music track deal isn’t a one time thing. I literally never use Miis, but I bought the Sans Costume just for Megalovania, and I’d do the same for any other ones they want to sell.

Same here. Sans was my first purchased Mii costume, and it's because of the song.

 

[He-Was-Number-Wan]

I really hope the Mii Costume + Music track deal isn’t a one time thing. I literally never use Miis, but I bought the Sans Costume just for Megalovania, and I’d do the same for any other ones they want to sell.

Phoenix Wright suit for Mii Brawler with Pursuit ~ Cornered PLEASE

 

[DarthEnderX]

Phoenix Wright suit for Mii Brawler with Pursuit ~ Cornered PLEASE

That gets a maximized "**** yeah!" from me.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I would like to have other indie characters as mii costumes, such as Shovel knight armor or Shantae costume, with a music from their respective franchise.

 

[Kronch]

If someone put a gun to my head and told me to predict future Mii Costumes, I'd say The Knight from Hollow Knight will get one as a Swordfighter, and Waluigi as a Brawler.

If you could put Waluigi's head on Sans' body, then I think the entire internet would finally be permanently satisfied with Smash.

jk that'll never happen. the satisfaction i mean.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

That honestly sounds like my worst nightmare. A manifesto on how to speculate properly? No thank you.

Even though it does get heated around here occasionally, for the most part we're able to actually have interesting debate. It's only when someone comes through feeling they have a point to prove that things go off the rails.

Not so much a manifesto so much as it is a crash course or workshop, or simply a look into how I personally do things. The word manifesto is incredibly strong and makes it sound like you're calling me a lunatic or something similar, and I can't help but feel like the "point to prove" thing is directed at me. To which I will reiterate that I have no point to prove, and I just want to contribute to speculation however I can. That would be the point of such a piece.

Maybe readers pick something up for their own use. If not, that's okay too. It wouldn't be touted as a definitive guide or anything like that. If you were to look at any of my previous writings you would see that's not the approach I take when it comes to speculation essays at all.

Regardless it's a concept I'm pretty interested in and I've seen some interest from other users so I'll probably type it up in the next month or so whenever I get the spare time.

 

[StormC]

I've been thinking a bit. Usually, when characters get leaked, they happen to be around the time before a direct and whatnot. The only 2 characters who supposedly didn't get leaked ahead of time were K Rool and Joker (not sure about Richter though since I wasn't very involved in the speculation scene around that time). While 1 was revealed in a Direct, the other was revealed at the Game Awards which isn't a Direct and caught a lot of people off guard.

I bring this up because none of the videos on DLC fighters and updates ended up getting leaked. I don't recall there being any leakers claiming that a video on a specific character will come at a certain date nor do they say anything about what'll be shown in them. For example, no one was saying that Sans was going to be a Mii Costume or that the costumes coming with Hero were going to be Dragon Quest related costumes only. I wonder why these videos in particular don't get leaked ahead of time because the presentation on Terry and 6.0.0 could theoretically have a potential Smash reveal not be spoiled by leaks.

Characters probably leak because there are more eyes on them, more staff members and more negotiating parties involved than a costume or trailer. Plus the character itself is the most exciting part to leak, even compared to a Sans Mii costume.

 

[Perkilator]

Okay, going by the old 16 DLC character wishlist:

Confirmed:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5. Terry Bogard (where’s that emote, huh?)

Who I want:
1. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
2. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
3. DeMille (Tomato Adventure)
4. Byleth (Fire Emblem: Three Houses)
5. Crash Bandicoot
6. Adeleine and Ribbon (Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards
7. Porky Minch
8. Haruka (Idolm@ster)
9. Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club)
10. Kamek (Yoshi’s Island)
11. Pauline (Toon Link is a stage element and a fighter, so so can Pauline)
12. Necrozma (Pokémon Sun and Moon)
13. Elma (Xenoblade X)
14. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
15. …Okay, I’m out of ideas.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Okay, going by the old 16 DLC character wishlist:

Confirmed:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5. Terry Bogard (where’s that emote, huh?)

Who I want:
1. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
2. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
3. DeMille (Tomato Adventure)
4. Byleth (Fire Emblem: Three Houses)
5. Crash Bandicoot
6. Adeleine and Ribbon (Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards
7. Porky Minch
8. Haruka (Idolm@ster)
9. Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club)
10. Kamek (Yoshi’s Island)
11. Pauline (Toon Link is a stage element and a fighter, so so can Pauline)
12. Necrozma (Pokémon Sun and Moon)
13. Elma (Xenoblade X)
14. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
15. …Okay, I’m out of ideas.

Typically I'd roast a list like this for stuff like Kamek and Porky, but you've got some solid off-the-wall picks here like DeMille, Haruka, and Pauline that I can't even be mad. #15 should be Style Savvy Designer because why not.

Plus, it's got Sora, so at that point Sakurai could add anyone and I wouldn't care.

 

[Nquoid]

Not so much a manifesto so much as it is a crash course or workshop, or simply a look into how I personally do things. The word manifesto is incredibly strong and makes it sound like you're calling me a lunatic or something similar, and I can't help but feel like the "point to prove" thing is directed at me. To which I will reiterate that I have no point to prove, and I just want to contribute to speculation however I can. That would be the point of such a piece.

Maybe readers pick something up for their own use. If not, that's okay too. It wouldn't be touted as a definitive guide or anything like that. If you were to look at any of my previous writings you would see that's not the approach I take when it comes to speculation essays at all.

Regardless it's a concept I'm pretty interested in and I've seen some interest from other users so I'll probably type it up in the next month or so whenever I get the spare time.

I mean manifesto literally just means 'a public declaration of policy and aims' which seems to fit the bill of what you intend to do?

And the point to prove comment is definitely not aimed at you. I might have only been publicly doing this for a few months, but in that time an awful lot of, let's call them one issue users, have rolled through who just want to present their opinion as the 'the one true opinion'. You're definitely not that.

My only hesitancy is that I like how free flow-y a lot of this is at the moment, and personal essays on the theology of speculation make it seem so much more serious. I like the characters I like, I dislike the characters I dislike, but I love seeing people defend what they love with a passion. That's my theology on speculation, and I'm not sure an essay on what pieces of information I think have import over others would hold more weight than just simply arguing my point.

But if you think it has merit, you do you! I can't control what you post here, merely agree/disagree and debate with you.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

This post was part of a really detailed and thought out analysis on reddit (dubbed "Company-Character Theory"), but the mods there took it of because they suck. So I'm just going to put the interesting part in this thread.

Based off of some facts, some assumptions, and some rumors, here's who I think are our most likely candidates for DLC (not including Nintendo characters). These are not my personal picks, otherwise I would have fantastical laundry lists like some other people here. There is a lot behind the scenes here guiding why I am predicting these reps, but my general rule is that I don't think companies are going to double dip in the fighters pass, but they can double dip at least once in the post-pass DLC (e.g., Square won't have another rep in the fighters pass, but they could get one - and only one - more in the DLC afterwards).

Most Likely Fighter Pass Character
(As much as I don't want to admit it…)

Koei Tecmo - Ryu Hayabusa

Most Likely Last Fighter Pass Characters Runner-Up

Bethesda - Dovahkiin; HM (Honorable Mention): Doomslayer

Companies Contending for the Last Slot in Fighter Pass (but also likely for post-pass)

Level 5 - Layton
Ubisoft - Rayman
Activision - Crash; HM: Spyro

Existing Companies with Post Fighter Pass Possibilities

Square Enix - Geno; HM: Sephiroth
Microsoft/Mojang - Steve
Bandai Namco - Lloyd; HM: Nightmare, Heihachi, Yuri
Capcom - Amaterasu; HM: Dante, Resident Evil rep
Sega - Tails; HM: Dr. Eggman, Shadow (yes, I know he's an AT, but it wouldn't be hard for him to be replaced by Silver in this capacity in an update)

Honorable Mention Companies
(These companies all have some kind of hurdle that I see preventing their inclusion, but they aren't impossible.)

Blizzard - Tracer; HM: Kerrigan, Diablo
WayForward - Shantae
Epic Games - Fortnite character
From Software - Dark Souls character
Warner Bros./Netherrealm Studios - Scorpion; HM: Sub-Zero, Raiden
NIS - Disgaea character

No Notable Characters

EA
Take-Two

Again, these are not personal picks. I have pretty good reason to believe that these will simply be our most likely candidates. If you want a breakdown of any particular character, let me know!

 

[DevaAshera]

I used that template to make my wants for Sora..and since it was a reason for debate, as you can, aside from the Hidden Mickey Keychain, no non-game content and still a full roster of Spirits as Music.
Rather than Destiny Islands for a Stage, I decided to go with Dive to the Heart since it appears in almost every Kingdom Hearts title and would be a more visually unique stage. It could reference Kingdom Hearts III by having certain scenes from the Kingdom Hearts series play in the background similarly to what Magicant does with EarthBound Zero and EarthBound..these scenes could either include Disney characters, Disney & Square-Enix characters, or just Kingdom Hearts characters.

(Click to Enlarge)

 

[Nquoid]

Honorable Mention Companies
(These companies all have some kind of hurdle that I see preventing their inclusion, but they aren't impossible.)

Blizzard - Tracer; HM: Kerrigan, Diablo

What do you see as the hurdle for Blizzard? Because honestly the more I talk about them, and the more I see that Nintendo's philosophy for new characters is to reach new markets; the reach that Blizzard has in countries like South Korea and China feels invaluable.

 

[cothero]

Speaking of unexpected characters, i think these two has a shot:

If you're familiar with Beat N' Ups, you must know who are those guys. Jimmy Lee and Billy Lee are the precursors of the Beat N' Up genre and protagonists of Double Dragon. It even had a movie in the nineties and the franchise is currently in the hands of Arc System Works, which i can easily see working with Sakurai. Jimmy and Billy are kinda identical in their playstile, so they could be echoes of each other or even a character with two different skins. DD is retro, iconic, and screams "Sakuraism" at it's best. I wouldn't be surprise if they eventually got added.

Edit: not gonna lie though, i would rather have Battletoads in, but i just don't see that happening

 

[RoboFist]

What do you see as the hurdle for Blizzard? Because honestly the more I talk about them, and the more I see that Nintendo's philosophy for new characters is to reach new markets; the reach that Blizzard has in countries like South Korea and China feels invaluable.

I'm telling you, man! They're gonna throw a WoW character at us, last second!

 

[Jedisupersonic]

What do you see as the hurdle for Blizzard? Because honestly the more I talk about them, and the more I see that Nintendo's philosophy for new characters is to reach new markets; the reach that Blizzard has in countries like South Korea and China feels invaluable.

I'd be all for Raynor or Zeratul from Starcraft tbh.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Same here. Sans was my first purchased Mii costume, and it's because of the song.

I got it for the song and the fact that Sans doesn’t really look like a Mii fighter with the mask covering his whole head. It also helps that he normally doesn’t seem to emote much, so the lack of expression isn’t weird. I hadn’t even created a Mii fighter before this because I think they look silly and I didn’t want them on the character select screen, but this got me to do it. Since I don’t use the Miis for anything but him, it feels like a unique moveset.

I’d love for them to do more like this but I think you need a character of a very specific stature with very specific traits. Skull Kid is the only one right now that does it.

The costume also got me to download Undertale and try it out this week.

 

[TechPowah]

Okay, so here is an aggregate list of the top 20 video game publishers from the last decade
...
Who would people like to see from these companies?

alright, i'll do this one
fair warning, I'm probably not gonna have any picks that would shock and amaze anyone, cause I prefer to stick to the big head honchos for a company not already involved with the game, since any company's first character also kinda-sorta acts as their "ambassador" to Smash

Spoiler: Tech goes Third Party

<i'm skipping a few companies mostly cause "i'm good, chief" on those; skipping Nintendo specifically because I can talk Ninty either way, but how the DLC seems to be going down is giving a rare opportunity to specifically delve head first into third party mayhem>

<also i'm separating Activision and Blizzard cause I just can't bring myself to admit there's a chance they'd choose a Blizzard-specific character over Crash ;-;>

Bandai-Namco: if Tekken just can't be done, I would personally go for either Agumon or Nightmare; As an aside, a stage based on Little Nightmares would be FANTASTIC

Capcom: Monster Hunter, full stop; if not, i guess Resident Evil would be my next-in-line

Konami: Pyramid Head I don't necessarily need another CHARACTER, but please add some sort of Mii costume for RakugaKids, I need this

Microsoft: Same as with Konami, but i'm perfectly fine with just Banjo character wise, but a Cuphead Mii costume + remix would be just dandy

Square Enix: I would say Sora, but i'm perfectly fine with waiting for the next game if I have to; Neku would also be a nice next-game character

Koei-Tecmo: Ryu Hayabusa, he's the best choice imo

Ubisoft: Rayman, Rayman, Rayman, RAYMAN! That said, if Nintendo truly doesn't want to add characters they already used for spirits, Ezio would make for a nice change of aesthetics

Activision: you already know

Blizzard: Tracer's the new hotness and all, and would be my first choice regardless, but Diablo would be cool as well

Arc Sys: there's just no other choice imo than Sol. As much as I think Kunio or Billy would make cool characters as well, I just can't see Arc ignoring the lead to their pride and joy, in favor of other characters that they just happen to own the IPs for now

Bethesda: of course i'm gonna say Doom Guy, but in Skyrim's defense, Sovngarde would make a REALLY COOL stage

THQ Nordic: i'm actually gonna deviate a bit and say de Blob, just look at the little guy! look at him go, haha!

Warner Bros: i'm gonna echo a few others here and say either Scorpion or Maxwell, they're kind of the two golden boy picks

 

[Hypercat-Z]

I'm hoping (so so seriously) in a Renamon costume for the Mii Brawler.
With her original game proportions:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEcQjn8X4AA7vrO?format=jpg&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEcQjn8WsAAnB5h?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEcQjn7XsAASjJ2?format=jpg&name=240x240

 

[Jassassino]

Little late but we were discussing Koei Tecmo earlier and I'd bloody love Lu Bu to make his way into the game.

 

[Dust319]

Speaking of unexpected characters, i think these two has a shot:

View attachment 238416

If you're familiar with Beat N' Ups, you must know who are those guys. Jimmy Lee and Billy Lee are the precursors of the Beat N' Up genre and protagonists of Double Dragon. It even had a movie in the nineties and the franchise is currently in the hands of Arc System Works, which i can easily see working with Sakurai. Jimmy and Billy are kinda identical in their playstile, so they could be echoes of each other or even a character with two different skins. DD is retro, iconic, and screams "Sakuraism" at it's best. I wouldn't be surprise if they eventually got added.

Edit: not gonna lie though, i would rather have Battletoads in, but i just don't see that happening

Two things that might be going against them:
They’ve had a few reboots but are still largely unknown, and may have to compete with other beat-em up characters ( River City Ransom, Final Fight, etc).
Secondly is potentially copyrights issues. Something weird is definitely going down when Double Dragon Neon came out and a remake of Double Dragon 2 came out very close to each other.

However, if Battletoads are out I’d be down for them too — as long as one of the Billy alts is mislabeled Bimmy.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Man, maybe not anytime soon, but I'd love it if we got a version of Ultimate with more first party characters from existing franchises. Perhaps a port on the next nintendo console but it just continues the same game we got already with more content.

- Mario: Waluigi (Reverse AT status)
- Yoshi: Kamek
- DK: Dixie
- Zelda: Skull Kid/Midna
- Star Fox: Krystal
- Earthbound: Porky (I actually think he has a shot now though)
- Kirby: BWD
- Xenoblade: Elma/Rex

And new 1st party franchises:

- Sin and Punishment: Saki
- Custom Robo: Ray 01
- Golden Sun: Isaac/Felix (reverse AT status)
- Rhythm Heaven: Conductor/Chorus Kids
- ARMS: Spring-Man/Ribbon Girl (Reverse AT status)


Like, I'm SUPER excited for additional DLC, but man Nintendo still has some killer characters from new or existing franchises they can dabble in. I do hope its not entirely 3rd party. Corrin was a brand new 1st party character as DLC last game, they can still do this, even if its just a few.

I'm not sure how long Sakurai wants to keep making smash, but many of the above characters have been wanted for years too. Saki and Ray 01 IMO just need to be immortalized in Smash like Little Mac has been. Many secondary characters from franchises we do have should be in the series. I have slight hope that Sakurai/Nintendo knows this. They shouldn't give up on their in-house franchises.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Would have been cool if Goemon's Mii costume came with a track from the Legend of the Mystical Ninja games.

Yes!

Would've been great to add an Assist Trophy of either him and/or Sasuke too

 

[Michael the Spikester]

This is a funny thought that suddenly came to me regarding additional DLC.

Imagine if we got King Mickey as a fighter...

...With Sora as a Mii costume.

Man the salt that'd spawn.

 

[YoshiandToad]

This is a funny thought that suddenly came to me regarding additional DLC.

Imagine if we got King Mickey as a fighter...

...With Sora as a Mii costume.

Man that salt that'd spawn.

I'd weirdly prefer it and I can't even explain why.

 

[cothero]

Two things that might be going against them:
They’ve had a few reboots but are still largely unknown, and may have to compete with other beat-em up characters ( River City Ransom, Final Fight, etc).
Secondly is potentially copyrights issues. Something weird is definitely going down when Double Dragon Neon came out and a remake of Double Dragon 2 came out very close to each other.

However, if Battletoads are out I’d be down for them too — as long as one of the Billy alts is mislabeled Bimmy.

I'd love to see Battletoads in, but i don't see another Microsoft character being in Smash who's not from a major title like Halo or Killer Instinct (Fulgore would be dope as ****).

 

[ZoroCarlos]

I'd love to see Battletoads in, but i don't see another Microsoft character being in Smash who's not from a major title like Halo or Killer Instinct (Fulgore would be dope as ****).

As long as I can Smash to T.J. Combo's theme then I am all aboard this. God that ost is so good, gonna go listen to it before class.

 

[Flyboy]

I'd weirdly prefer it and I can't even explain why.

As ridiculous as it is (and obviously impossible not least of which because Sakurai himself said as much) I can't lie, the idea of Mickey vs. Mario (especially Epic Mickey, Mickey Mania, or King Mickey versions) is low-key kind of hype.

Of course, no non-game characters and the Disney minefield surrounding the character means it'll.never happen but it's such a wild thought.

 

[cothero]

As long as I can Smash to T.J. Combo's theme then I am all aboard this. God that ost is so good, gonna go listen to it before class.

KI indeed has some awesome music. Thanks for the idea, i'm going to download all the OST to my phone right now.