Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Schnee117]

but shes in Soul Cal

And Terry's already in FEXL
Didn't stop him getting in Smash

 

[Wunderwaft]

I feel like NIS might be a company to look out for too

Isn't NIS close to being bankrupt?
I don't how this would impact Nintendo's selection but NIS has been in desperate need of money lately.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

And Terry's already in FEXL
Didn't stop him getting in Smash

I mean he is the SNK poster boy

 

[Roberk]

There's also always Falcom, who haven't been the most in the spotlight but have been consistently making games since the early 80s, Ys and the Legend of Heroes are fairly big in Japan and Korea and Falcom basically started the Action RPG genre way back in 87.

If you want another pick that's like SNK there is always them and most of their titles were localized by Xseed and now NISA (who is now basically hiring the old Xseed people who did do their localizations anyways).

Falcom is definitely slept on considering the scale of the DLC now, they've certainly got the legacy and innovation in genres to fit into a "gaming museum".

 

[shinhed-echi]

2B is a sleeper choice that I think could show up in the Second Pass. It was said that they would like to put Neir: Automata on Switch so for all we know it could be in development.

Does suck that such a good soundtrack won't be properly represented... just like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

I like how Sakurai found a loophole to the Square Enix deal of having 2 songs per character by adding multiple heroes of DQ. Maybe if we had gotten a different hero per slot, we’d have 16 tracks!

Sucks that this deal is apparently a thing.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I like how Sakurai found a loophole to the Square Enix deal of having 2 songs per character by adding multiple heroes of DQ. Maybe if we had gotten a different hero per slot, we’d have 16 tracks!

Sucks that this deal is apparently a thing.

Square Enix was the one to recommend using different Heroes as alts, it wasn't some loophole that Sakurai found for the music and generally the only reason they each have two is to be fair to each game and let Hero represent them equally. Sakurai was pretty clear with wanting to give each alt a battle theme and an overworld theme to fairly represent them and I'm fairly sure that's why we only got two tracks per character. If Hero had just been Luminary, I'd bet money that we would have gotten the same or a similar number of tracks.

 

[Captain Fun]

I like how Sakurai found a loophole to the Square Enix deal of having 2 songs per character by adding multiple heroes of DQ. Maybe if we had gotten a different hero per slot, we’d have 16 tracks!

Sucks that this deal is apparently a thing.

I don’t think we have any evidence that there is a 2 per game rule. Square doesn’t even own the DQ music afaik- it’s all Sugiyama. FF7 is in a similar situation with its composer.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Characters are fun and all, but how would y'all feel if they sold music packs? For some companies, it'd lessen the blow if for whatever reason they didn't get playable characters and/or stages. Plus, as colossal as the playlist is for this game, there's no denying that it could be better. I know I'd buy music packs at least. Especially from ArcSys, Nihon Falcom, SquareEnix, and a few others.

At a minimum, they also need to come with Spirit battles, so there's a reason for them to use the songs.

 

[BlueMonk]

Isn't NIS close to being bankrupt?
I don't how this would impact Nintendo's selection but NIS has been in desperate need of money lately.

I think so, yeah. Not sure if that would increase or decrease the chances of a Disgaea character though.

 

[Schnee117]

I mean he is the SNK poster boy

That doesn't really matter.
The main point is that being a guest in one fighting game doesn't stop you from being a guest in another.
If he wants 2B, he'll go for 2B.
If he wants Geese or Noctis or Akuma, he'd go for them despite them being in Tekken.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don’t think we have any evidence that there is a 2 per game rule. Square doesn’t even own the DQ music afaik- it’s all Sugiyama. FF7 is in a similar situation with its composer.

Sugiyama is especially bad as he's incredibly stingy. Sure, we may have more DQ songs than FF songs but the FF songs are high quality **** when compared to Sugiyama refusing to let Smash have the good versions of his songs

 

[pupNapoleon]

In Smash with Playable:
Bandai Namco
i- Agumon
ii- Heihachi
iii- Lloyd Irving
Capcom -
i- Jill Valentine
ii- Leon Kennedy Echo
iii- Phoenix Wright
iv- echo Zero
Konami
i- Frogger
ii- Bomberman
Microsoft -
i- Steve
ii- Master Chief
Sega
i- Tails (echo)
ii- Shadow (echo)
Square Enix
i- Lara Croft
ii- Sora
iii- Geno?

In Smash (Non-Playable):
Koei Tecmo
i- Ryu Hayabusa.
Ubisoft
i- Rayman
ii- Ezio

Not In Smash:
Activision Blizzard
i- Crash
ii- Spyro
iii- Tracer
iv- WoW
Bethesda
i- Doom Slayer
ii- Vault Boy
NetherRealm
i- Scorpion
ii- Sub Zero (echo)

Other Companies for Stages:
i- 2k (Grand Thef Auto)
ii- Uh...??? (Tetris)
iii- Rovio Entertainment (Angry Birds)
iv- EA (Sims)
v- Frontier Development (Roller Coaster Tycoon)
vi- Gameloft (Oregon Trail)
vii- MOBA (League of Legends)

Nintendo
i- Isaac (Golden Sun)
ii- Balloon Fighter
iii- Twintelle (ARMS)
iv- Excite Bike
v- Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven)
vi- Captain Toad
vii- Andy ('Wars)
viii- Lip (Panel de Pon)
ix- Eevee (Pokemon)

Nintendo Echo Hybrids (big variations):
i- Dixie
ii- Impa
iii- Octolings
iv- Min Min
v- Donkey Kong JR
vi- Birdo
vii- Vaati
vii- Paper Mario

 

[NoOtherPersona]

That doesn't really matter.
The main point is that being a guest in one fighting game doesn't stop you from being a guest in another.
If he wants 2B, he'll go for 2B.
If he wants Geese or Noctis or Akuma, he'd go for them despite them being in Tekken.

True enough

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Spirits can be upgraded then the most likely Square Enix character I see happening is Geno.

Otherwise if not if we get another one I feel some people might sleep on Lara Croft.

Also before you point out Sora. He's a Disney rep so he's in an different category.

 

[Nquoid]

Let's answer my own question, and try and keep it to only one (or two)

In Smash (Playable)
Bandai Namco - Heihachi/Lloyd
Capcom - Leon Kennedy
Konami - Bill Rizer/Lance Bean
Microsoft - Master Chief/Ori
Nintendo - Dixie Kong
Sega - Gunstar Red or Blue/Beat/Nights
Square Enix - Crono/2B

In Smash (Non-Playable)
Koei Tecmo - Ryu Hayabusa
Ubisoft - Jade/Prince

Not In Smash
Activision Blizzard - Tracer
Aksys Games - Sol Badguy
Bethesda - Doom Slayer
EA - Commander Shepherd
NIS America - Laharl
Paradox - NA
Sony - Kratos
Take Two - Big Daddy
THQ Nordic - War
Warner Bros. - Scorpion
XSEED Games/Marvelous USA - Travis Touchdown

 

[EricTheGamerman]

At a minimum, they also need to come with Spirit battles, so there's a reason for them to use the songs.

Counterpoint, Megalovania was put into the game with just a Mii costume so we don't really need Spirit battles either.

 

[SNEKeater]

Counterpoint, Megalovania was put into the game with just a Mii costume so we don't really need Spirit battles either.

Tbf I think that is an exception and not a rule. Maybe we will get 1 song with certain Mii costume in the future, but I doubt it will be a usual thing.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Counterpoint, Megalovania was put into the game with just a Mii costume so we don't really need Spirit battles either.

Well, the fact that Sans has a Mii costume, but not a Spirit, is kinda bull****.

Anything that actually appears in Smash, whether it's an item, a costume, an AT, a background stage appearance, should have a Spirit. A Spirit is the bare minimum that should be included with any and all over involvement in the game.

 

[SKX31]

Not In Smash
Activision Blizzard - Tracer

Oh crap, completely forgot about Tracer / Overwatch for some reason. That makes it *count* 8 A-B characters I'd like in Smash.

Yeah, I grew up with Blizzard games primarily.

Tbf I think that is an exception and not a rule. Maybe we will get 1 song with certain Mii costume in the future, but I doubt it will be a usual thing.

I could actually see that happening if Company X wants one thing but is also willing to lend something else as a Mii costume. Any A-B character could come with an additional Mii costume (For example, Tracer or Thrall with The Lost Vikings Mii Costumes and theme from that game.).

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Okay, so here is an aggregate list of the top 20 video game publishers from the last decade. Based it off Metacritic's publisher scorecard so some of it is a bit fuzzy, like Aksys can sort of double for ArcSystemWorks despite the companies not being related at all:
Who would people like to see from these companies?

In Smash (Playable)
Bandai Namco-Agumon(Digimon),Klonoa,
Capcom-Jill Valentine(Resident Evil),Dante(Devil May Cry),Joe(Viewtiful Joe),Amaterasu(Ōkami)
Konami-Bill Rizer and Lance Bean(Contra),Sparkster(Rocket Knight Adventures)
Microsoft-Master Cheif(Halo),Steve(Minecraft),Conker(Conker's Bad Fur Day),Joanna Dark(Perfect Dark)
Nintendo-Springman(Arms),Dixie Kong(Donkey Kong),Rex and Pyra(Xenoblade Chronicles 2),Bandana Dee(Kirby)
Sega-Knuckles(Sonic the Hedgehog),Beat(Jet Set Radio),AiAi(Super Monkey Ball)
Square Enix-Sora(Kingdom Hearts),Chrono(Chrono Trigger),2B(Nier Automata),Lara Croft(Tomb Raider)
In Smash (Non-Playable)
Koei Tecmo-Ryu Hayabusa(Ninja Gaiden),Kasumi(Dead or Alive)
Ubisoft-Rayman,Ezio(Assassin's Creed),Prince(Prince of Persia)
Not In Smash
Activision Blizzard-Crash Bandicoot,Spyro the Dragon
Aksys Games-Sol Badguy(Guilty Gear)
Bethesda-Doomslayer(Doom)Dragonborn(Elder Scrolls Skyrim)
EA-Commander Shepard(Mass Effect),Sims(The Sims)
NIS America-Laharl(Disgaea)
Paradox- I don't know
Sony-Kratos(God of War),Jak and Daxter,Ratchet & Clank ,Kat(Gravity Rush)
Take Two-Gta protagonist,Max Payne,
THQ Nordic-War(Darksiders)
Warner Bros.-Scorpion (Mortal Kombat),Maxwell(Scribblenauts)
XSEED Games/Marvelous USA-Travis Touchdown(No More Heroes),Asuka(Senran Kagura).

 

[Deleted member]

At a minimum, they also need to come with Spirit battles, so there's a reason for them to use the songs.

How about being able to fight with that song playing? Surely that would be the reason people would be buying these packs.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Music packs would be a nice compromise if we can’t get a certain character associated with the music (I.e. X music but no Elma; Fly Octo Fly but no Octoling, Eternal Blue but no Gunvolt)

Would prefer the actual character though (and in Gunvolt’s case I’d even settle for a Mii costume if it comes with the song)

 

[DarthEnderX]

How about being able to fight with that song playing? Surely that would be the reason people would be buying these packs.

Sure, but it'd be nice for there to be a piece of content where the game uses it intentionally.

 

[Sigman]

2B is a sleeper choice that I think could show up in the Second Pass. It was said that they would like to put Neir: Automata on Switch so for all we know it could be in development.

Does suck that such a good soundtrack won't be properly represented... just like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

I’m not sure it’s similar since those soundtracks may relate more to the original composers decisions and their copyrights. Since Square Enix suggested that more Dragon Quest characters should appear and allowed Final Fantasy VII to appear at all to begin with. While Keiichi Okabe, composer of NieR: Automata is involved with Super Smash Bros Ultimate’s soundtrack and NieR: Automata has done plenty of collaborations

Regarding Hero from #DragonQuest XI S in #SmashBrosUltimate, Mr. Sakurai was very passionate & knowledgeable about the series and approached the team. The Square-Enix devs suggested adding alternate skins for the Heroes from 3, 4, & 8. The end result exceeded their expectations. pic.twitter.com/dUZpIkCsdX

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) August 31, 2019

 

[YoshiandToad]

Okay, so here is an aggregate list of the top 20 video game publishers from the last decade. Based it off Metacritic's publisher scorecard so some of it is a bit fuzzy, like Aksys can sort of double for ArcSystemWorks despite the companies not being related at all:

In Smash (Playable)
Bandai Namco
Capcom
Konami
Microsoft
Nintendo
Sega
Square Enix

In Smash (Non-Playable)
Koei Tecmo
Ubisoft

Not In Smash
Activision Blizzard
Aksys Games
Bethesda
EA
NIS America
Paradox
Sony
Take Two
THQ Nordic
Warner Bros.
XSEED Games/Marvelous USA

Who would people like to see from these companies?

In Smash (Playable)
Bandai Namco: Agumon
Capcom: Chris Redfield/Jill Valentine
Konami: Bomberman(oof)
Microsoft: Conker
Nintendo: Toad/Captain Toad and Toadette, Dixie Kong, Meowth, Bandana Waddle Dee, Impa/Vaati/Tingle and Waluigi(oof)
Sega: Tails and Knuckles(oof)
Square Enix: Lara Croft

In Smash (Non-Playable):
Koei Tecmo: Kasumi and Suezo(Monster Rancher)
Ubisoft: Rayman(oof again)

Not In Smash
Activision Blizzard: Spyro and Crash
Aksys Games: Kunio or Sol. Don't particularly care for either tbh.
Bethesda: Doomguy I guess
EA: Isaac(Dead Space)
NIS America: Not familiar with their properties
Paradox: again, not familiar
Sony: Ratchet and Clank
Take Two: Claptrap
THQ Nordic: Not familiar with their properties
Warner Bros.: Maxwell (Scribblenauts) or Scorpion (Mortal Kombat)
XSEED Games/Marvelous USA: Not familiar with their properties.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Sugiyama is especially bad as he's incredibly stingy. Sure, we may have more DQ songs than FF songs but the FF songs are high quality **** when compared to Sugiyama refusing to let Smash have the good versions of his songs

Not sure how this comparison applies. FF in smash got the rips of the PS1 game.
And the DQ midis don’t sound half bad. The only one that sounds awful is the DQ8 Overworld theme, that we didn’t get. We got the sped up “Sabrecat” version which sounds way better, midi or not.
Uematsu also has superior versions of both songs. Orchestral or The Black Mages versions, or heck, Advent Children versions.

In a perfect world, both composers would have given it their all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not sure how this comparison applies. FF in smash got the rips of the PS1 game.
And the DQ midis don’t sound half bad. The only one that sounds awful is the DQ8 Overworld theme, that we didn’t get. We got the sped up “Sabrecat” version which sounds way better, midi or not.
Uematsu also has superior versions of both songs. Orchestral or The Black Mages versions, or heck, Advent Children versions.

In a perfect world, both composers would have given it their all.

With FFVII, rights are more split between people meaning there had to be shortcomings to accomodate for any content. With the DQ music, it's just Sugiyama hating people who want to enjoy the music without spending a fortune on concert tickets

 

[shinhed-echi]

I’m not sure it’s similar since those soundtracks may relate more to the original composers decisions and their copyrights. Since Square Enix suggested that more Dragon Quest characters should appear and allowed Final Fantasy VII to appear at all to begin with. While Keiichi Okabe, composer of NieR: Automata is involved with Super Smash Bros Ultimate’s soundtrack and NieR: Automata has done plenty of collaborations

Regarding Hero from #DragonQuest XI S in #SmashBrosUltimate, Mr. Sakurai was very passionate & knowledgeable about the series and approached the team. The Square-Enix devs suggested adding alternate skins for the Heroes from 3, 4, & 8. The end result exceeded their expectations. pic.twitter.com/dUZpIkCsdX

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) August 31, 2019

Woah! They approached Nintendo to suggest the alt heroes? Color me surprised! Usually that’s more of a Sakurai thing to do. But now the whole picture changed.

Now my theory about Erdrick being the original DQ rep has no legs to stand on... (that Kirby hat, though).

With FFVII, rights are more split between people meaning there had to be shortcomings to accomodate for any content. With the DQ music, it's just Sugiyama hating people who want to enjoy the music without spending a fortune on concert tickets

... we still got full orchestra for DQXIs though, so maybe a better deal was arranged?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Imagine if Nintendo convinced SquareEnix to allow them to throw in some FFVII Remake tracks while everyone is (assumidly) still around to negotiate with. That would be godlike.

EDIT: Though on a scale of 1-10 I'd say the chances of that happening are a solid -1.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Woah! They approached Nintendo to suggest the alt heroes? Color me surprised! Usually that’s more of a Sakurai thing to do. But now the whole picture changed.

I'm betting it's because Sakurai just wanted to do Erdrick, and SE was like "But we want to advertise the NEW game! So...can you do a bunch of heroes? Including Mr. Newguy?"

 

[kaithehedgefox]

So Bomberman is an assist trophy because Simon is playable. Zero (megaman) is an assist trophy because Ken is playable, and Yuri (fatal frame) is an assist trophy because Ryu Hayabusa will be playable in the future.

Out of those 3 assist trophies, Yuri is the only one who merits to be an assist trophy. But on the bright side I think this is a very good trade! However, they could've made Yu-(insert suffix here) as an assist trophy for Konami instead of Bomberman.

 

[Deleted member]

... we still got full orchestra for DQXIs though, so maybe a better deal was arranged?

The only music to use a live orchestra was the music in the trailer, not the XI music. It's still weird they got the rights for those versions songs, one of which didn't even appear in any form, and didn't end up using them in game.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I'm betting it's because Sakurai just wanted to do Erdrick, and SE was like "But we want to advertise the NEW game! So...can you do a bunch of heroes? Including Mr. Newguy?"

It's disappointing that we couldn't get more heroes but the picks that they gave us made sense
3 Japan loves him
8 America loves him
4 he's the 3 of 4-6
11 the new guy plus promo

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The only music to use a live orchestra was the music in the trailer, not the XI music. It's still weird they got the rights for those versions songs, one of which didn't even appear in any form, and didn't end up using them in game.

The new S version's getting the full orchestral OST. Apparantly 8 had that on ps2 too

 

[NoOtherPersona]

The new S version's getting the full orchestral OST. Apparantly 8 had that on ps2 too

The demo has that as well you can't even switch it to the bad Midi they make you listen to the orchestration

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm betting it's because Sakurai just wanted to do Erdrick, and SE was like "But we want to advertise the NEW game! So...can you do a bunch of heroes? Including Mr. Newguy?"

Hero Kirby's hat matches Erdrick more than the other heroes, and leaks were mainly focused on him, but the stage is based on DQXI. So who knows.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It's disappointing that we couldn't get more heroes but the picks that they gave us made sense
3 Japan loves him
8 America loves him
4 he's the 3 of 4-6
11 the new guy plus promo

Gonna disagree with 4. 5 is way more popular in Japan. That game is a pop culture touchstone over there.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Gonna disagree with 4. 5 is way more popular in Japan. That game is a pop culture touchstone over there.

I was saying how the hero of 4 is like the hero of 3 there both the prequel heroes heck I know 5 is popular

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Falcom is definitely slept on considering the scale of the DLC now, they've certainly got the legacy and innovation in genres to fit into a "gaming museum".

It’s part of why I started the thread, I thought Falcom getting anything was a wild goose chase until we saw SNK and Terry get in, two things I also was hoping for but thought were impossible. SNK I will admit has more overall relevance to the gaming industry but I do think Falcom has set quite a few things as well, especially in Japan. Like as I mentioned basically starting the Action RPG genre.

My goal is to raise awareness even if we don’t get something. Never hurts to have a hope either.

Although I already had someone tell me on a discord I’m on “if Adol somehow gets in I’m selling my switch” so... haha.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Well, the fact that Sans has a Mii costume, but not a Spirit, is kinda bull****.

Anything that actually appears in Smash, whether it's an item, a costume, an AT, a background stage appearance, should have a Spirit. A Spirit is the bare minimum that should be included with any and all over involvement in the game.

Is that really such an important thing? Most people don't really care that much about Spirits to begin with, so I don't really see the need to cram them in if people don't care about them except in DLC packs as extra content to enjoy with the new character. Again, why put the effort in there when there are probably better avenues for it?