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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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CapitaineCrash

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But... Piranha plant is a retro character?
I mean technically yes but that's like saying Mario, Link and Samus are also retro character. For me a retro character is a character that don't have apparence after it's first one (or at least that don't appear for a very long time). Piranha plant appear in almost every Mario game.
 

GoodGrief741

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I dunno about not being iconic or generic. I mean, sure, it IS a generic enemy. They're everywhere. But they're enemies of one of the most iconic properties to ever exist and clearly had enough to work with for a move set compared to something like Goombas or Koopas (Outside maybe Hammer Bros). Though I'm in a camp where I don't mind. I think the character is hilarious and fun to play, plus he was a bonus (Since I got the game day one and didn't have to pay extra) though I'm sure those who got the game later might not find him appealing enough to pay for if they got the game later.

However, I do find it an interesting addition because it means even jobber enemies aren't off the table for future installments provided such characters have potential. To some they may find such additions 'filler' but it might be what the series needs in the future. I highly doubt Smash is going to exist in a state like it is today and if they need silly characters to add but are still iconic, I'm not going to be mad if a few slots get taken by enemy characters. If anything it makes me want to see what else the team can do with such characters. If they can make a toothy plant in a flower pot function and be fun, there's little they can't make work now with the right motivation/ingenuity.
Piranha Plant is like the most iconic Mario enemy. He’s practically synonymous with the series. He’s on all types of merchandise. And he’s been around since the first game.
Unless I'm not understanding something, that person didn't say Piranha Plant isn't iconic.
 

merchantofsalt

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Sakurai has a burning need to include one character that literally no one predicted in every Smash Bros. game.
 

Wigglerman

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Unless I'm not understanding something, that person didn't say Piranha Plant isn't iconic.
The worst part about Piranha plant is the fact that Sakurai compared it to other "random" character like game & watch, rob and duck hunt. The thing is that all these characters share something in common that Piranha plant don't; they're retro characters that are iconic to Nintendo history, but kind of forgotten. Piranha plant is just a generic enemy.

Poster is saying that but is basically using the caveat that the plant just isn't forgotten, thus insinuating isn't as worthwhile an inclusion which I feel is faulty.
 
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N3ON

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I think it's telling that even though we have a generic mook, it's proven that it can happen, barely anyone seems bothered to ask for another. Not like PP is the only well-known one.
 

RileyXY1

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As I mentioned many times before, it is concrete fact that Digimon did not start as an anime. So, anyone who does think this way is clearly uninformed about the franchise.
 

DarthEnderX

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Any reactions if Paper Mario was DLC?
None whatsoever.

You know, I love Paper Mario. The OG game and TTYD are two of my favorite games of all time. But my reaction to him would be okay.
This is the correct response to getting another Mario.

The worst part about Piranha plant is the fact that Sakurai compared it to other "random" character like game & watch, rob and duck hunt. The thing is that all these characters share something in common that Piranha plant don't; they're retro characters that are iconic to Nintendo history, but kind of forgotten. Piranha plant is just a generic enemy.
Indeed.

Some folks like to call Bandana Waddle Dee a "Goomba with a hat". Piranha Plant is just a plain old Goomba.
 

IceKitsune

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I think it's telling that even though we have a generic mook, it's proven that it can happen, barely anyone seems bothered to ask for another. Not like PP is the only well-known one.
I would like to have a Koopa Troopa in the game. I would just like a few other characters first.
 
D

Deleted member

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I feel that part of the hate for the Plant comes from the expectations of the Grinch Hoax, which lets be honest a lot of people took for real. I don't think its a bad character more than its random, and frankly for a promo character I think its alright.

Realistically the best announcement for Smash came with the "Everyone is here!" Trailer as it set the motion of Ultimate being the biggest game in the series. I pretty much preordered the game back then, as pretty much everything else looked like a nice bonus.
 

HyruleHero

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Some folks like to call Bandana Waddle Dee a "Goomba with a hat". Piranha Plant is just a plain old Goomba.
I think that logic would be perfectly fine however because Piranha Plants final smash is Petey Piranha. I give him a pass for being another villain in the roster.
 

GoodGrief741

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I feel that part of the hate for the Plant comes from the expectations of the Grinch Hoax, which lets be honest a lot of people took for real. I don't think its a bad character more than its random, and frankly for a promo character I think its alright.

Realistically the best announcement for Smash came with the "Everyone is here!" Trailer as it set the motion of Ultimate being the biggest game in the series. I pretty much preordered the game back then, as pretty much everything else looked like a nice bonus.
Nah, you could have Piranha Plant revealed at any moment, leak or no leak, and it would have had a poor reaction.

However, being the last character revealed did increase the 'X didn't get in over this?' factor, because people knew whoever didn't get in by then wouldn't be in at all. But there's no right way to reveal Piranha Plant as a fighter tbh. I'd expect similar reactions if it comes back in Smash 6, whenever that happens.
 

AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea

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Personally I haven't disliked any character's inclusion so far. And I dont think i'd dislike any at all going forward (except maybe Waluigi)

As much as I wanted Shadow, I never pinned hate towards Piranha Plant because it feels unjustified and pointless. I'll never understand the fans who get deathly upset and furious over characters like Joker or Terry being in. Just because you're not familiar or like the character, doesn't mean other people arent. I suppose it's hard to be considerate for others.
 

N3ON

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Oh. I guess it depends on how early the game is in development.
Also, it's not necessarily the case that the starters are going to be the first Pokemon finalized. Lucario and Zoroark were revealed prior to their respective starters. But any Pokemon used in pre-release promotion is likely going to be locked in before most of the others.

I mean, Zoroark's movie released before the games did. Lucario's came out a year before D/P. Think about when those movies had to start production. That gives you an idea of when some of these Pocketmen are actually created.
 

kaithehedgefox

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Here's a quote from a previous thread.
If you add Goku, you open the flood gates for literally anyone and Smash then risks becoming a Mugen-like shell of what it's supposed to be.
Right now, Smash is a videogame all star battle platform fighter. I'm not complaining, but I think this would be a horrible idea, turning Smash into media all star battle. But I wonder, what's the problem with that concept?
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Also, it's not necessarily the case that the starters are going to be the first Pokemon finalized. Lucario and Zoroark were revealed prior to their respective starters. But any Pokemon used in pre-release promotion is likely going to be locked in before most of the others.

I mean, Zoroark's movie released before the games did. Lucario's came out a year before D/P. Think about when those movies had to start production. That gives you an idea of when some of these Pocketmen are actually created.
I think this is also before Pokémon adopted the annual release schedule. It gives me hope that the next Pokémon candidate won't be another starter. I'd love to see what creative things we could see from a standout Pokémon (that wasn't a starter) like Mimikyu or Guzzlord or something. A trainer character would be cool too.
 

perfectchaos83

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TheYungLink

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For those of you who have not seen this yet:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Wonder how Iwata feels right now, seeing all the characters that made it into Smash.
 
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Flik

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I think this is also before Pokémon adopted the annual release schedule. It gives me hope that the next Pokémon candidate won't be another starter. I'd love to see what creative things we could see from a standout Pokémon (that wasn't a starter) like Mimikyu or Guzzlord or something. A trainer character would be cool too.
If there is a Gen 8 pokemon coming, I hope Sakurai decides to wait 'til we see which pokemon becomes popular. There are no deadlines for DLC, so they can take the time.
 

ramon_zer0

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I personally doubt it. There was a very good reason to have an announcement for smash at the VGAs last year. Less so this year when they can showcase something actually new.
Not like the Game Awards is the only possible place they could pull off a Smash reveal. If they wanted to, they could copy what happened with Smash 4 and host a December video presentation. They could even attach the reveal to Terry's gameplay video if ever.

December still seems like an ideal month to pull it off considering it's a time of year where Smash DLC has been announced previously (Corrin/Bayo in 4, Joker in Ult.), and also because it'd make good timing to reveal a character that has to be out before Feb. 2020.
 

Guynamednelson

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I think it's telling that even though we have a generic mook, it's proven that it can happen, barely anyone seems bothered to ask for another. Not like PP is the only well-known one.
At least it invalidates the "Hat Goomba" argument, since PP isn't even that.
 

EricTheGamerman

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I'm still leaning towards we get two more reveals by the end of the year. I'm thinking we get #5 in November in a Smash centric Nintendo Direct and a huge announcement of someone joining Smash at The Game Awards. That's potentially super wishful thinking, but if they're announcing additional characters and also possibly working on the first of those, I think we get someone notable to kick off "season 2/wave 2" and keep the hype going. No, they don't have as much reason as last year to announce a DLC fighter at The Game Awards... but Nintendo clearly have no issue with just continually promoting Smash and pushing it to the forefront of every presentation they can. I mean Smash managed to dominate both E3 2019 and the September Direct despite only discussing DLC haha. And I'm pretty certain that Geoff Keighley will accommodate as many Nintendo announcements as they're willing to give. Remember, last year, they debuted Joker and Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 as an exclusive at The Game Awards, so I can definitely see a similar scenario this time around.
 

DevaAshera

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NIS: Laharl or a Prinny from Disgaea
Arc System Works: Sol or Ky from Guilty Gear, though I have trouble imagining it
Technos: Kunio/Riki from Kunio-kun/River City, or possibly Misako/Kyoko from River City Girls
Kunio-Kun/River City games are actually owned by Arc System Works now, they don't even mention Technos anymore.
Honchkrow is my favorite Pokemon, but I wouldn't put him in Smash.

If I had tp pick one Pokemon to add to Smash, it would be Garchomp.

They'll be elated, because everyone in the world knows and loves Kunio!
I'd love to see my fav, Gardevoir, in Smash. I think she could be interesting enough based on anime appearances and her moveset in Pokkén Tournament.
Honestly, while Kunio is obscure, the River City Ransom game and now River City Girls are pretty well known amongst gamers, so I wouldn't be surprised..it'd be a similar case as Terry Bogard, honestly.
Right now, Smash is a videogame all star battle platform fighter. I'm not complaining, but I think this would be a horrible idea, turning Smash into media all star battle. But I wonder, what's the problem with that concept?
I mean, mostly just the fact that it would be a licensing nightmare..there's a reason most anime games that come West keep Japanese vocals and stuff and even then so many companies can have their hands in a companies series that it could turn into a mess to localize..For example, they had to work very, very hard to localize Tatsunoko vs Capcom because of how many different companies owned the rights to Tatsunoko's different series..this is why instead of porting the game as it was, they made an Ultimate version, adding new characters and removing one character they couldn't obtain the rights to.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Yes. It's Doom time.
Like, I'm not even ****ing kidding if this DOESN'T happen at The Game Awards I will be shocked. I think DLC 5 will get announced around the release of Terry so announcing the first character in the Next DLC as Doom Slayer at a crowd that big with the saying: "Holy ****, Doom is in Smash!" Floating around everywhere is going to turn a LOT of heads no matter what part of the world your from. This will literally blow up the industry and I think, I believe, that's what Sakurai is wanting to do. And Doom Slayer is the best way to do that.
 

Ben Holt

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To my recollection the most popular Gen V choices were Victini (at the beginning), Genesect (at the end) and Zoroark (throughout).


Zoroark wasn't as popular as Lucario (few Pokemon are), but it's not like it wasn't popular at all. It was still a pretty popular choice compared to what else was going on in the gen. I have no doubts that would've been the pick had Gen V been the most recent.
Zoroark could have used Illusion for his Down-B and acted like Ditto for 10 seconds, transforming into the opponent.
Though technically Illusion is just cosmetic and doesn't give you the actual powers of what you transform into.
So maybe it could be 10 seconds of invisibility (like the old cloaking device) with a 30-45 second recharge time to avoid bull****.
 

DevaAshera

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Like, I'm not even ****ing kidding if this DOESN'T happen at The Game Awards I will be shocked. I think DLC 5 will get announced around the release of Terry so announcing the first character in the Next DLC as Doom Slayer at a crowd that big with the saying: "Holy ****, Doom is in Smash!" Floating around everywhere is going to turn a LOT of heads no matter what part of the world your from. This will literally blow up the industry and I think, I believe, that's what Sakurai is wanting to do. And Doom Slayer is the best way to do that.
I..can't really agree..pretty much any big name 3rd Party character will do that..and honestly, it'll only really blow up the industry in the West, not so much Japan..whereas other 3rd Party options like Kingdom Hearts' Sora, Crash Bandicoot, or even fellow Bethesda character, Skyrim's Dovahkin, would do about the same thing thing, but worldwide.
 

cothero

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I have a strong feeling that Sora is going to be the next DLC fighter and i don't even care for him. Nintendo might want to close this season adding a major-wanted character. IDK, just a feeling.
 

perfectchaos83

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I have a strong feeling that Sora is going to be the next DLC fighter and i don't even care for him. Nintendo might want to close this season adding a major-wanted character. IDK, just a feeling.
Friendly reminder that Smash has never ended "on a Bang"
 
D

Deleted member

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Are we finally going to see this?...

View attachment 238041
I doubt we're gonna see this to be honest. It would be cool but Mortal Kombat is basically non-existent in Japan and IIRC they placed a ban on the games due to how gory and violent it is so even if Sakurai knew what Mortal Kombat was, Wanted to put it in Smash and had a moveset planned for Scorpion/Sub Zero whoever I doubt he'd be able to pull it off cause of said ban and cause most of the Japanese fanbase wouldn't know who the hell these Ninja looking dudes are.

So nope I doubt we'll see that happen anytime soon even though it would be cool.
I have a strong feeling that Sora is going to be the next DLC fighter and i don't even care for him. Nintendo might want to close this season adding a major-wanted character. IDK, just a feeling.
Could happen and I'm sure they could pull this off so while I'm not ruling it out I personally would not expect for this to happen. Smash has never ended in a band and with DLC Nintendo and Sakurai would want to pull off the big guns first so people will buy the DLC and put the low-key characters at the end so if Sora were to happen why not make him the second or even first DLC character instead of the last? It just doesn't line up for me.

And while I may be looking too deep into this I kind of think the reason Nintendo showed that they'll be making additional DLC is cause this next FP character will be either really divisive or just super low-key. I don't think Sora fits either of those categories but again that's just my speculation and nothing more. We could see Sora be the fifth DLC fighter but I would expect for him to show up in the Additional DLC if anything.
 

perfectchaos83

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And while I may be looking too deep into this I kind of think the reason Nintendo showed that they'll be making additional DLC is cause this next FP character will be either really divisive or just super low-key. I don't think Sora fits either of those categories but again that's just my speculation and nothing more. We could see Sora be the fifth DLC fighter but I would expect for him to show up in the Additional DLC if anything.
I'm surprised to see I'm not the only one to think that.
 

ze9

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I don't see what Piranha Plant represents that isn't already represented or wouldn't be better represented by someone else. Nor do I see its importance to Nintendo's history.
Piranha Plant is a fun character to play as.
 

SKX31

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I doubt we're gonna see this to be honest. It would be cool but Mortal Kombat is basically non-existent in Japan and IIRC they placed a ban on the games due to how gory and violent it is so even if Sakurai knew what Mortal Kombat was, Wanted to put it in Smash and had a moveset planned for Scorpion/Sub Zero whoever I doubt he'd be able to pull it off cause of said ban and cause most of the Japanese fanbase wouldn't know who the hell these Ninja looking dudes are.
IIRC (I'll have to dig deeper into this) the Japanese ratings board CERO streghened its censorship after a string of teen violence blaimed onto video games and GTA III got restricted in parts of Tokyo. CERO's system is something a Resident Evil dev has made detailed comments over.

Also, searching for Mortal Kombat vids with Japanese sentences yield some vids with over a million views. If anything MK's got a cult following there, likely because of the forbidden fruit effect.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Friendly reminder that Smash has never ended "on a Bang"
Unless you're a Pikmin or Xenoblade fan. Even if that second one was tainted a bit by leaks.

Only one that really ended with a bang, even if for some it was a firework fallign over and flying towards them, was the end of the Smash 4 DLC where a year's worth of Zero Punctuation jokes became outdated.
 

cothero

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IIRC (I'll have to dig deeper into this) the Japanese ratings board CERO streghened its censorship after a string of teen violence blaimed onto video games and GTA III got restricted in parts of Tokyo. CERO's system is something a Resident Evil dev has made detailed comments over.

Also, searching for Mortal Kombat vids with Japanese sentences yield some vids with over a million views. If anything MK's got a cult following there, likely because of the forbidden fruit effect.
Yup, i've heard about that. Nothing that rises the chances of a MK character getting in Smash, but it's a interesting fact anyway.
 

ze9

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Pfft! I don't request characters so I can have fun playing them! I request characters to sooth my crippling OCD!
Even then, mooks are such a big part of Mario games that you'd think representing them in a 80+ character roster would be appropriate. Plant is more significant to the Mario franchise then someone like Daisy for sure.
 

YoshiandToad

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Even amongst Mario mooks though Koopa Troopa is arguably a better/more logical choice. Considering they're both popular with Mario fans and have a ton of moveset potential with the variants of Koopa Troopa. Also they can move on their own more traditionally.

I'm pretty sure Shy Guy, Dry Bones and Boo are a lot more popular than Plant is amongst the Mario fanbase too.
Petey had fans for sure though. But counting regular plant as Petey getting in is like counting Robin as Chrom getting playable in Sm4sh, Peach as getting Toad playable, Isabelle and Villager as getting Tom Nook playable or Shulk in getting Fiora as playable.

Plant feels like a cheap 'surprise' more than anything and one that doesn't really service anything more than 'surprise'. Funny at first, sure but no one was clamouring for PP.

He's fun but any and all characters can easily be fun to play in Smash. That's why people want Sakurai to add their faves because we trust he can make anyone fun to play as.
 
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