Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[EricTheGamerman]

I agree with this the first speculation cycle I really took place in is this one currently the Ultimate DLC cycle and I'm a hardcore Nintendo fan first and foremost so it's super alienating seeing all these characters I don't know get in over characters I'm familiar with. Nintendo's appeal for me has always been their wide cast of franchises and characters exclusive to them and their platforms.

They're ignoring a lot of good characters and franchises that they own that could potentially make for some interesting additions in favor of 3rd party characters that are arguably bigger and more exciting than them yet at the cost of alienating their own fanbase like myself and others. It attracts a lot of other people and get people excited which is great we can get one of the biggest official crossover games of all time but why ignore 1st party characters at that cost?

I would've said that 1st party characters and 3rd party characters could live in harmony and give both groups what they want. It keeps the core Nintendo fanbase interested and excited while bringing in new people to witness the "Ultimate Crossover" we still have plenty of good 1st party franchises that could've been added too; Rhythm Heaven, Golden Sun, Wars, Chibi-Robo, Etc.

But otherwise I'm not opposed to see more 3rd party franchises get added at all I would (or would've if we get all 3rd party characters) just like for 1st party additions and 3rd party additions to get added and round each other out.

FOR CHRISTS SAKE, THEY DO LIVE IN HARMONY AND ULTIMATE HAS DONE PLENTY TO GIVE NINTENDO FANS WHAT THEY WANT

It's like all of the work the base game put in towards beefing up the first party selection with heavily desired and wanted characters in addition to returning all the old veterans (which were primarily Nintendo and based around the desires of the "core" fans) and including 94 stages based around Nintendo IPs just doesn't matter because the DLC favors third parties. Banjo & Kazooie was also completely an addition for the "core" fan base and was for all intensive purposes another first party addition. We will likely see at least a couple more first parties by the end of Ultimate and we're likely to get someone like Geno, who would be yet another addition solely for the "core" fan base and is a Mario character. They've released three other fighters since launch, one of which is as heavily Nintendo as any third parties (Dragon Quest goes completely hand in hand with Nintendo, they've all debuted on Nintendo consoles except for VII and VIII, both of which got considerably upgraded ports to the 3DS).

Like, when did Nintendo fan end up meaning "only Nintendo licensed stuff"? We used to cherish every third party release and we absolutely owned characters like Simon Belmont, Mega Man, and Ryu as part of our world. The only characters that "don't fit" (whatever that's supposed to mean since they're all expertly integrated) are Snake, Cloud, Joker, and Terry... two of which have also had several mainline titles and appearances on consoles including an exclusive version of Metal Gear Solid that Kojima developed specifically for the Nintendo fan base...

If that was the case, we'd only have Sonic, Banjo, Megaman and Pacman. Certainly no Bayonetta.

Bayonetta's basically a Nintendo character at this point since Nintendo funds her games and proudly flaunts her exclusivity on the console, so she might still be in regardless of fit (also how do Simon Belmont, Hero, Ryu, and Ken not specifically fit in with the rest of Smash???).

 

[MorbidMiraj]

I wonder how much of this is exacerbated by the fact that Ultimate had a shorter dev cycle than previous Smash's. Because only Splatoon had time to prove that it had legs, the rest of the additions were focused on fulfilling long held wants and adding characters from ever green franchises like Fire Emblem, Pokemon and Animal Crossing.

If the game cooked for another year, I'm sure a lot more 1st party requests would have been fulfilled and maybe stuff like Spring Man and Rex.

But I have to imagine Nintendo saw the metrics for the Smash 4 DLC and noted that Cloud, Bayonetta and Ryu sold better than Corrin. Hence the hard pivot into new franchises. If Splatoon hadn't made it into the base game, I'd wager that's the kind of franchise that would make financial sense to add to a pass. As much as I love Dixie and Porky, they're the fourth and third reps for franchises, immediately making them less "exciting"

I dunno if I would put much investment into the 'game series X has to prove itself' theory, since Sakurai even put Roy into Melee before his own game came out, and Fire Emblem was such an unknown quantity that they considered not including FE characters at all. Plus, some of the odd balls like ROB, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt and (at the time) Pit were unproven, more historical IPs. I think it really just comes down to timing (regarding ARMs with Ultimate or Splatoon with Smash 4), or whatever Sakurai thinks might be fun.

Huzzah! A man of quality.

Though Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade all have their merits as well.



No sir you are not the only one saddened/underwhelmed with the news. Heck if I didn’t need a complete roster, I probably would’ve only bought Banjo thus far in the pass, with Joker a somewhat distant second, followed by Hero and Terry in a tie for third. It wouldn’t be nearly as disappointing if I knew who those latter 3 characters were, but alas, I did not before Smash unveiled them. Hopefully they throw in 1-3 first parties to make it a bit more bearable, but if not then hopefully the remainder of third party characters are at least people I can point out the names of.

Yeah, Banjo is the only DLC rep I bought, and it's because he's always been an N64 character in my mind. I personally was put off that Joker was even in the game (don't attack me, Persona fans), since he had no real Nintendo history (I don't really think Persona Q2 counts lol). I also felt similarly with Cloud for 4, but I guess he's seen as the face of Final Fantasy, and any rep from the NES/SNES era wouldn't have had the same impact to the mass audience. But now it's a free-for-all, so I don't think any theories of how characters are chosen matters anymore. It's ultimately up to what Sakurai wants, and which companies push the hardest for Nintendo to advertise for them. I'm glad I waited on the season pass though. I had a feeling it'd go this route.

 

[ze9]

"More unique"... in what way? Comparing characters from different franchises doesn't seem like a good way to determine that, nor the quality of the characters.

I remember when people were mad about Joker "taking" stuff from Sheik and Robin, as well as Hero "taking" normals from Link and Roy. "Fun" times.

That said... I do agree with "moveset potential" being mostly useless right now. While it certainly doesn't hinder anyone, it's not absolutely necessary, as proven by things like .

Ultimately, whether you see moveset potential in a character depends almost exclusively in how we see them personally, nothing else.

And I swear I'm totally not saying this because I support Arle Nadja and Phoenix Wright, no.



Hm. Maybe it could be an opportunity for us to get more FF content? It would be lovely if it happened. I really don't see us getting another unique FF character, but hey, if it happens, I won't be the one to complain.

The guy just ****ing hates Banjo for some reason, let him vent out and ignore him.

 

[yeet123]

Master Hand should be the next "Piranha Plant Bonus" character

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

If that was the case, we'd only have Sonic, Banjo, Megaman and Pacman. Certainly no Bayonetta.

I think Bayonetta shouldn't be in Smash. There are characters besides those you listed who I think are fine.

 

[Opossum]

The guy just ****ing hates Banjo for some reason, let him vent out and ignore him.

I really don't get why you're seemingly deliberately misgendering her when she already corrected you not even a week ago...

 

[GoodGrief741]

But third party characters don't even take up 20% of the roster yet, and just to get to a 75/25 split first parties to third parties, the next 8 characters would all have to be third parties. Smash has been a series that has included first parties for 20 years, so there's clearly tons and tons of love already put into the roster from a first party perspective. You're basically look at a minority part of the game and complaining that it isn't more of a minority. As it stands, Ultimate still hs more first party additions than third parties as well. It has added 9 first party characters compared to the 8 third party characters (and if you count returning fighters that were previously cut, and I think you should, that changes to 15 first party to 9 third party). And one of the third party characters added is just objectively a Nintendo character whose license belongs to another company now, so that puts one further on the Nintendo side in the grand scheme of things.

They do both thrive together and will continue to thrive together regardless of the next ten additions. And honestly, with characters like Mega Man and Simon Belmont that are NES icons and known so heavily for the NES, it still seems so heavily favoring Nintendo as a whole. I just don't really understand this mindset when they are still such a comparatively small portion of the roster and this is literally the only chance to do this in gaming history by all accounts. It just seems absolutely insane to me to not take this once in a lifetime opportunity to make this huge gaming crossover that will likely never be topped, just to pull back at the last second to go towards IPs that are all represented in Smash in some capacity, and many of which have lots of substantial content already, including multiple playable characters...



I mean, Nintendo has realized that only relying on their own first party offerings is not a sustainable business model in the long run and doesn't let them achieve the success they desire. Third parties are essential to any console no matter how much some Nintendo faithful has convinced themselves otherwise. The N64, the Gamecube, and the Wii U all suffered massively from the lack of support, and the only reason the Wii bucked the trend was because it sold as a toy and not a gaming console. Part of the Switch's return to glory for Nintendo has also been in part because of third party IPs. You can't go at it alone in the gaming world, and you achieve the greatest success when you have solid first AND third party offerings on a well marketed console. A lot of the abandoned IPs did modestly at first... but then dropped off more and more until they were unsustainable too. Nintendo is always looking to innovate, and if F-Zero can't break half a million copies and isn't doing anything new or interesting, it's just not going to be of much interest to Nintendo. I'm sorry, Nintendo relying on just their own support has been a ****ing massive issue for two decades now, it's time they stopped acting like that.

Smash has been in this transition alongside Nintendo ever since the Melee days, and it has been a hard fought lesson with lots of mistakes along the way.

Third parties may still be a minority but there's absolutely a tendency towards that changing. If we go by Ultimate's unique newcomers we're looking at 50% if FP5 is third party. If DLC keeps going the road of third parties that's going to be over half of newcomers being third party.

Plus it's more than just the characters. Of the new stages we got, 3 are Nintendo while at least 6 are not. If we're looking at new franchises represented, that's one against six!

If the tendency doesn't keep up, I guess that's fine. But I think it's gotta be at least kind of alarming to the portion of Smash fans that are in this for the Nintendo factor. This is definitely a biased statement, but I think more efforts could be made to also placate that part of the audience.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

FOR CHRISTS SAKE, THEY DO LIVE IN HARMONY AND ULTIMATE HAS DONE PLENTY TO GIVE NINTENDO FANS WHAT THEY WANT

It's like all of the work the base game put in towards beefing up the first party selection with heavily desired and wanted characters in addition to returning all the old veterans (which were primarily Nintendo and based around the desires of the "core" fans) and including 94 stages based around Nintendo IPs just doesn't matter because the DLC favors third parties. Banjo & Kazooie was also completely an addition for the "core" fan base and was for all intensive purposes another first party addition. We will likely see at least a couple more first parties by the end of Ultimate and we're likely to get someone like Geno, who would be yet another addition solely for the "core" fan base and is a Mario character. They've released three other fighters since launch, one of which is as heavily Nintendo as any third parties (Dragon Quest goes completely hand in hand with Nintendo, they've all debuted on Nintendo consoles except for VII and VIII, both of which got considerably upgraded ports to the 3DS).

Like, when did Nintendo fan end up meaning "only Nintendo licensed stuff"? We used to cherish every third party release and we absolutely owned characters like Simon Belmont, Mega Man, and Ryu as part of our world. The only characters that "don't fit" (whatever that's supposed to mean since they're all expertly integrated) are Snake, Cloud, Joker, and Terry... two of which have also had several mainline titles and appearances on consoles including an exclusive version of Metal Gear Solid that Kojima developed specifically for the Nintendo fan base...



Bayonetta's basically a Nintendo character at this point since Nintendo funds her games and proudly flaunts her exclusivity on the console, so she might still be in regardless of fit (also how do Simon Belmont, Hero, Ryu, and Ken not specifically fit in with the rest of Smash???).

Probably because after a certain point, third parties largely abandoned Nintendo, and they had to rely on their first party offerings. Sure, it's gotten better (if you consider indie games and third party, years-late ports), but overall there's a certain 'branching path' that happened around the time of the N64 where Nintendo took a certain identity. People celebrate Mega Man, Castlevania and Street Fighter reps in Smash because they're from the NES/SNES days. When you put stuff like Joker in there, which is from a Playstation exclusive franchise, it can cause confusion.

Ultimately (heh) it doesn't matter anymore, because Smash is all about third parties from here on out, so it's a moot point for how people feel.

 

[ze9]

I really don't get why you're seemingly deliberately misgendering her when she already corrected you not even a week ago...

Errr... I forgot. Sorry.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

I mean, Nintendo has realized that only relying on their own first party offerings is not a sustainable business model in the long run and doesn't let them achieve the success they desire. Third parties are essential to any console no matter how much some Nintendo faithful has convinced themselves otherwise. The N64, the Gamecube, and the Wii U all suffered massively from the lack of support, and the only reason the Wii bucked the trend was because it sold as a toy and not a gaming console. Part of the Switch's return to glory for Nintendo has also been in part because of third party IPs. You can't go at it alone in the gaming world, and you achieve the greatest success when you have solid first AND third party offerings on a well marketed console. A lot of the abandoned IPs did modestly at first... but then dropped off more and more until they were unsustainable too. Nintendo is always looking to innovate, and if F-Zero can't break half a million copies and isn't doing anything new or interesting, it's just not going to be of much interest to Nintendo. I'm sorry, Nintendo relying on just their own support has been a ****ing massive issue for two decades now, it's time they stopped acting like that.

Smash has been in this transition alongside Nintendo ever since the Melee days, and it has been a hard fought lesson with lots of mistakes along the way.

If that were the case, you wouldn't have any Splatoon, Fire Emblem or Metroid, DK newcomers in Ultimate. Those all got massive amounts of hype. How many people are begging for Fire Emblem 3 Houses reps? Xenoblade? Even Geno is a kind of grey area 'Nintendo' character.

I think people, rightfully, can get hyped about Nintendo characters, both new and old. Just because putting Master Chief or whatnot into Smash will make headlines and waves doesn't mean that it should override any first party choices.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Several Nintendo franchises were given a second chance because of Smash. The very reason we even have Fire Emblem games now is likely directly tied to Melee. Putting Steve from Minecraft into Smash won't make a difference to Minecraft continuing. It'll just get Minecraft players interested in playing, but probably not in significant numbers because the genre is so different.

Regarding series sales, since you mentioned F-Zero... some Nintendo franchises like Xenoblade never broke 1 million sales (sometimes not even half that) until they got on Switch. Yet they were given multiple opportunities to do so. Even some of the Mario spinoffs sold poorly at times, but they got sequels that did well again. If Nintendo budgets appropriately, or puts in good effort, they can revive series that dwindled. After all, a diverse portfolio is more appealing. If they just relied on third parties to fill out their non Mario/Zelda/Pokemon roster, that would make their system far less appealing. Might as well just stick to other consoles or PC at that point, since they play the games better, get more franchises, and tend to get them years earlier. Nintendo doesn't chase raw power or online infrastructure, so they have put themselves in a position where they have to push their own software to get people to buy their hardware.

 

[Garteam]

Ok but let's be real, 'moveset potential' is a goddamn buzzword at this point. We have a plant, a ****ing potted plant, with more unique moves than the third party character belonging to Nintendo's competitor, it doesn't matter at this point

I disagree. I will admit that as a term "moveset potential" is a bit overused and has lost a bit of meaning because of this, but its original underlying intent is still present. I think its not an overly controversial thing to say that some characters either transition easier in playable characters or naturally bring more to the tables in terms of unique moves. This is exactly why Robin was chosen over Chrom for Smash for Wii U/3DS, Sakurai hasn't really been secretive about the importance of being unique before.

Ideally, a Smash character is chosen both for their identity and what they can bring to the table in terms of gameplay (I think everyone would agree on this). However, which factor is more important is up for debate. Some would say that being iconic is more important than being unique while others believe that being unique is more important than being iconic and that's fine. It's ultimately a difference of taste and different strokes for different folks.

Sakurai's view on this is kinda fuzzy though. On one hand, Sakurai's said multiple times that the first thing he always prioritizing gameplay first when deciding characters ("dancing in his head" and all that). However, he's recently been playing up the crossover aspect of Smash pretty hard in interviews and marketing, so it's really up in the air.

 

[Deleted member]

FOR CHRISTS SAKE, THEY DO LIVE IN HARMONY AND ULTIMATE HAS DONE PLENTY TO GIVE NINTENDO FANS WHAT THEY WANT

It's like all of the work the base game put in towards beefing up the first party selection with heavily desired and wanted characters in addition to returning all the old veterans (which were primarily Nintendo and based around the desires of the "core" fans) and including 94 stages based around Nintendo IPs just doesn't matter because the DLC favors third parties. Banjo & Kazooie was also completely an addition for the "core" fan base and was for all intensive purposes another first party addition. We will likely see at least a couple more first parties by the end of Ultimate and we're likely to get someone like Geno, who would be yet another addition solely for the "core" fan base and is a Mario character. They've released three other fighters since launch, one of which is as heavily Nintendo as any third parties (Dragon Quest goes completely hand in hand with Nintendo, they've all debuted on Nintendo consoles except for VII and VIII, both of which got considerably upgraded ports to the 3DS).

Like, when did Nintendo fan end up meaning "only Nintendo licensed stuff"? We used to cherish every third party release and we absolutely owned characters like Simon Belmont, Mega Man, and Ryu as part of our world. The only characters that "don't fit" (whatever that's supposed to mean since they're all expertly integrated) are Snake, Cloud, Joker, and Terry... two of which have also had several mainline titles and appearances on consoles including an exclusive version of Metal Gear Solid that Kojima developed specifically for the Nintendo fan base...



Bayonetta's basically a Nintendo character at this point since Nintendo funds her games and proudly flaunts her exclusivity on the console, so she might still be in regardless of fit (also how do Simon Belmont, Hero, Ryu, and Ken not specifically fit in with the rest of Smash???).

First of all I'm absolutely not saying that the Base roster does not matter it absolutely does and if I sounded entitled I apologize. Them beefing up the first party selection of characters for the base roster was absolutely great. Second of all I'm not saying these recent 3rd party characters do not deserve, fit in or should not be in the game as they absolutely should.

I understand why they added the characters they did and while I wasn't really excited for most of them I can see where Sakurai came from with including who he included. Joker absolutely brings new and exciting stuff to Smash which we couldn't get anywhere else that's neat. Joker is also from one of the most acclaimed and talked about RPGs in recent memory he should've been included and he was.

Dragon Quest started on the NES and has it's history alongside Nintendo and that said history is massive and interesting. It absolutely should've and did get added to Smash. Banjo-Kazooie is practically a Nintendo character as you said and I like Banjo-Kazooie a lot I never once said that they were bad additions and then there's Terry who's company dates back to the 70s and was the king of the Arcades alongside Capcom back when they were big.

All these characters make sense and they all bring something new to the table which I respect but I would also happen to like more first party inclusions. Third party characters can thrive alongside Nintendo licensed and branded Nintendo characters and they have since Brawl but my problem comes with the variety of how many 3rd party characters we're getting compared to the 1st party characters.

Despite Banjo targeting the core Nintendo fanbase which I definitely agree with you on as they could be considered a "Lost Nintendo icon" we still have 4 of the 5 DLC characters being 3rd party and it's likely we're getting 5/5 characters being 3rd party and in turn we don't get any 1st party characters which means no variety in what characters we're getting. Only then is where my problem stems, 3rd party characters being included is fine and dandy I couldn't care less if they were added as they can bring new and exciting things to Smash we couldn't get otherwise but I also want variety when it comes to the output of 1st party characters vs 3rd party characters. We don't have any real variety so far and personally I would like for that to change.

I would like for there to be variety in terms of what kinds of characters we're getting and not solidly one way or the other as I'd likely be in the same position if it was 100% 1st party characters. While I favor and prefer 1st party characters I don't actually have a problem with 3rd party characters at all even my most wanted character is technically 3rd party I find it interesting how big this roster and crossover can get but not at the costs of getting no 1st party characters.

I like both and I would prefer a nice blend of both compared to what we're getting now even though while I criticize it I still think at the end of the day what Sakurai is doing with Ultimate is at least interesting. That's all and again if I came off as entitled I apologize.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I will say, if the general consensus is that DLC is reserved for third-parties, among MANY other resulting opinions, I NEVER want to see another Smash game add more guests in the base game, under ANY circumstance! There is no longer an excuse for that move when you could save that for DLC, and end up wasting resources that could be used for a first-party addition that is otherwise forced to wait for next game.

 

[Deleted member]

Imo, Banjo's moves outside of Side Special(and maybe UpSmash but I think I just like that move persinally) feel very... uninspired. They just don't really do anything new or interesting.

 

[andree123]

Is there a chance that Nintendo would be only giving out characters who are already spirits or assists to Sakurai for the post fighters pass DLC fighters?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Is there a chance that Nintendo would be only giving out characters who are already spirits or assists to Sakurai for the post fighters pass DLC fighters?

Yes, there's a chance.

 

[Opossum]

Imo, Banjo's moves outside of Side Special(and maybe UpSmash but I think I just like that move persinally) feel very... uninspired. They just don't really do anything new or interesting.

I like the Grenade Egg.

 

[Brindor]

Can't wait till I see Waluigi again get picked over a freakin' goomba in the next DLC Craze

 

[Wunderwaft]

ngl seeing how some people are against first party inclusions in general makes me feel like I stumbled into a bizarre alternate dimension where Smash was never made for Nintendo fans.

Is there a chance that Nintendo would be only giving out characters who are already spirits or assists to Sakurai for the post fighters pass DLC fighters?

Only spirits or assists as DLC? No way. Could a spirit or an assist get promoted? It's a possibility.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

First of all I'm absolutely not saying that the Base roster does not matter it absolutely does and if I sounded entitled I apologize. Them beefing up the first party selection of characters for the base roster was absolutely great. Second of all I'm not saying these recent 3rd party characters do not deserve, fit in or should not be in the game as they absolutely should.

I understand why they added the characters they did and while I wasn't really excited for most of them I can see where Sakurai came from with including who he included. Joker absolutely brings new and exciting stuff to Smash which we couldn't get anywhere else that's neat. Joker is also from one of the most acclaimed and talked about RPGs in recent memory he should've been included and he was.

Dragon Quest started on the NES and has it's history alongside Nintendo and that said history is massive and interesting. It absolutely should've and did get added to Smash. Banjo-Kazooie is practically a Nintendo character as you said and I like Banjo-Kazooie a lot I never once said that they were bad additions and then there's Terry who's company dates back to the 70s and was the king of the Arcades alongside Capcom back when they were big.

All these characters make sense and they all bring something new to the table which I respect but I would also happen to like more first party inclusions. Third party characters can thrive alongside Nintendo licensed and branded Nintendo characters and they have since Brawl but my problem comes with the variety of how many 3rd party characters we're getting compared to the 1st party characters.

Despite Banjo targeting the core Nintendo fanbase which I definitely agree with you on as they could be considered a "Lost Nintendo icon" we still have 4 of the 5 DLC characters being 3rd party and it's likely we're getting 5/5 characters being 3rd party and in turn we don't get any 1st party characters which means no variety in what characters we're getting. Only then is where my problem stems, 3rd party characters being included is fine and dandy I couldn't care less if they were added as they can bring new and exciting things to Smash we couldn't get otherwise but I also want variety when it comes to the output of 1st party characters vs 3rd party characters. We don't have any real variety so far and personally I would like for that to change.

I would like for there to be variety in terms of what kinds of characters we're getting and not solidly one way or the other as I'd likely be in the same position if it was 100% 1st party characters. While I favor and prefer 1st party characters I don't actually have a problem with 3rd party characters at all even my most wanted character is technically 3rd party I find it interesting how big this roster and crossover can get but not at the costs of getting no 1st party characters.

I like both and I would prefer a nice blend of both compared to what we're getting now even though while I criticize it I still think at the end of the day what Sakurai is doing with Ultimate is at least interesting. That's all and again if I came off as entitled I apologize.

I think it makes more sense for third party reps to have some association with Nintendo, like the Dragon Quest characters do. Several of the third party reps have been from periods where Nintendo had draconian exclusivity clauses from the NES days, so they were practically Nintendo characters for a time. Others are just gaming icons, or from popular recently franchises. But I think the ones like Mega Man or Simon Belmont strike a chord differently than Joker or Terry do. They don't feel so "out of place".

Also, is your avatar Marcus from Star Fox Command?

 

[Hidan]

I will say, if the general consensus is that DLC is reserved for third-parties, among MANY other resulting opinions, I NEVER want to see another Smash game add more guests in the base game, under ANY circumstance! There is no longer an excuse for that move when you could save that for DLC, and end up wasting resources that could be used for a first-party addition that is otherwise forced to wait for next game.

With the next Smash Bros game, given Sakurai’s comments, I would honestly expect almost all third party reps to be culled (besides probably Sonic). I could see the next game having a big emphasis on going back to Smash Bros roots.

 

[merchantofsalt]

There are only so many ways you can vertically recover or punch or kick... moreso when you're trying to respect the original animations. All 3D platformer characters have similar moves in the end.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it makes more sense for third party reps to have some association with Nintendo, like the Dragon Quest characters do. Several of the third party reps have been from periods where Nintendo had draconian exclusivity clauses from the NES days, so they were practically Nintendo characters for a time. Others are just gaming icons, or from popular recently franchises. But I think the ones like Mega Man or Simon Belmont strike a chord differently than Joker or Terry do. They don't feel so "out of place".

Also, is your avatar Marcus from Star Fox Command?

Yeah that makes sense in a way some 3rd party characters like Simon and Banjo were practically Nintendo characters but just like people Gaming franchises move on and grow like Castlevania did though Banjo and Kazooie are still very much associated with Nintendo.

Also no my avatar is an original character I made. I've never played a Star Fox game beyond the original Star Fox, Star Fox 64 and Star Fox Zero.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

I will say, if the general consensus is that DLC is reserved for third-parties, among MANY other resulting opinions, I NEVER want to see another Smash game add more guests in the base game, under ANY circumstance! There is no longer an excuse for that move when you could save that for DLC, and end up wasting resources that could be used for a first-party addition that is otherwise forced to wait for next game.

100% agree. If the DLC is just going to be third party from here on out, then save the base game in future entries (if we get any) to focus solely on Nintendo stuff. Make the DLC waves all third party guests and possibly even theme them (all classic fighters like Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Tekken, etc. for instance).

Yeah that makes sense in a way some 3rd party characters like Simon and Banjo were practically Nintendo characters but just like people Gaming franchises move on and grow like Castlevania did though Banjo and Kazooie are still very much associated with Nintendo.

Also no my avatar is an original character I made. I've never played a Star Fox game beyond the original Star Fox, Star Fox 64 and Star Fox Zero.

You're not missing much with Command, tbh. Neat idea, flawed execution, and a bizarre fan fiction-level plot. Assault is super overlooked, though. If you want to try it, just remember to switch the control options so it's dual analog for the ground combat, and you're good to go. Most complain about the ground combat being tank-like.

 

[Deleted member]

Of all the new 3rd Party franchises that came to Ultimate, Castlevania is the 1 with the most songs in Smash at 34. In comparison, Persona has 11, Dragon Quest has 8, and Banjo-Kazooie has 10. We won't know how many tracks Fatal Fury will get when November comes around, but I'm going to think it'll be around 20 or so tracks because I want to believe they'll get a great amount of music.

Do any of you think we're going to get a character/franchise that comes with more music than Castlevania? If so, who would it be?

 

[Deleted member]

I like the Grenade Egg.

It's a "Back" special in a way but overall it doesn't do much to me.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Of all the new 3rd Party franchises that came to Ultimate, Castlevania is the 1 with the most songs in Smash at 34. In comparison, Persona has 11, Dragon Quest has 8, and Banjo-Kazooie has 10. We won't know how many tracks Fatal Fury will get when November comes around, but I'm going to think it'll be around 20 or so tracks because I want to believe they'll get a great amount of music.

Do any of you think we're going to get a character/franchise that comes with more music than Castlevania? If so, who would it be?

My heart wants to say Touhou but I know well that a DLC character won't get as much content as a base roster character. I believe Castlevania will remain the supreme champion of music even after the DLC is done.

 

[Sari]

Of all the new 3rd Party franchises that came to Ultimate, Castlevania is the 1 with the most songs in Smash at 34. In comparison, Persona has 11, Dragon Quest has 8, and Banjo-Kazooie has 10. We won't know how many tracks Fatal Fury will get when November comes around, but I'm going to think it'll be around 20 or so tracks because I want to believe they'll get a great amount of music.

Do any of you think we're going to get a character/franchise that comes with more music than Castlevania? If so, who would it be?

If they use songs from King of Fighters and other SNK series, I can honestly see Terry releasing with more songs than what Castlevania got since SNK is usually very lenient with crossovers.

 

[StormC]

If they use songs from King of Fighters and other SNK series, I can honestly see Terry releasing with more songs than what Castlevania got since SNK is usually very lenient with crossovers.

I don't think this will happen because I feel Nintendo does not want any of the DLC packs to have significantly more value than the other. I feel like outside of DQ because lol, most characters will get 10-15 songs.

Sakurai even joked that he considers 10 songs in the Banjo-Kazooie pack to be a "fantastic deal" for $5.99.

 

[BlueMonk]

I don't think this will happen because I feel Nintendo does not want any of the DLC packs to have significantly more value than the other. I feel like outside of DQ because lol, most characters will get 10-15 songs.

Sakurai even joked that he considers 10 songs in the Banjo-Kazooie pack to be a "fantastic deal" for $5.99.

Why would they care if one pack has more value than the others? I see this said sometimes but I don't understand why they wouldn't want that, wouldn't it just increase sales a bit for that pack?

 

[StormC]

Why would they care if one pack has more value than the others? I see this said sometimes but I don't understand why they wouldn't want that, wouldn't it just increase sales a bit for that pack?

A lot of reasons, namely to set the same expectations for each pack (people aren't disappointed when we go from 30 songs to 10), they want each pack to be as equal and appealing as possible so the purchases are balanced, etc.

 

[IceKitsune]

I still think it's ridiculous calling Shantae an indie pick when WayForward is in no way an indie developer. They've been making games forever, have a large staff, and have worked on some of gaming's most iconic franchises and made games based on huge licenses.

It's as if people think any studio that isn't AAA is automatically indie...

Well they were one when the first game was published on the Gameboy Color. You could argue they are no longer an indie developer but at what point does that happen? How big does a developer have to get to no longer be considered Indie?

 

[StormC]

I still think it's ridiculous calling Shantae an indie pick when WayForward is in no way an indie developer. They've been making games forever, have a large staff, and have worked on some of gaming's most iconic franchises and made games based on huge licenses.

It's as if people think any studio that isn't AAA is automatically indie...

WayForward self-identifies as an indie studio and their games are listed under indie titles on digital stores.

 

[Nquoid]

I dunno if I would put much investment into the 'game series X has to prove itself' theory, since Sakurai even put Roy into Melee before his own game came out, and Fire Emblem was such an unknown quantity that they considered not including FE characters at all. Plus, some of the odd balls like ROB, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt and (at the time) Pit were unproven, more historical IPs. I think it really just comes down to timing (regarding ARMs with Ultimate or Splatoon with Smash 4), or whatever Sakurai thinks might be fun.

But those were all proven IPs. Some of them might not have been relevant in a while, but they all had some degree of pedigree or nostalgia. They had been varying degrees of successful at some point.

What I'm saying is that between Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate, Splatoon was the only new IP that they knew was a success. Not every Nintendo IP makes it into Smash as a playable fighter, but Splatoon was such a no brainer. Even Arms which sold 2 million copies probably still isn't guaranteed a slot unless they green light an Arms 2.

 

[Deleted member]

Seems the discussions are a bit redundant now with the whole 1st party vs 3rd party.

In all honesty, I feel that the whole discussion is kind of repetitive and the fact that some people hold the whole Smash series as this Nintendo/gaming museum is a bit disappointing. I feel that people are just taking it too seriously when it is a game and most likely the DLC is being picked with the "wouldn't it be fun if" mindset instead.

 

[DarthEnderX]

WayForward self-identifies as an indie studio and their games are listed under indie titles on digital stores.

That seems like a disingenuous attempt to continue painting themselves as a scrappy underdog for a company that make games for the likes of Nickelodeon and freakin' DISNEY.

When the credits for your video games have in excess of 50 people, you are not an indie studio anymore.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Wayford is more of a AA developer at this point, bigger then indie but not big enough to be AAA.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Seems the discussions are a bit redundant now with the whole 1st party vs 3rd party.

In all honesty, I feel that the whole discussion is kind of repetitive and the fact that some people hold the whole Smash series as this Nintendo/gaming museum is a bit disappointing. I feel that people are just taking it too seriously when it is a game and most likely the DLC is being picked with the "wouldn't it be fun if" mindset instead.

Telling people not to take Smash seriously in the thread for speculation of Smash newcomers seems like pots calling kettles black.

 

[Deleted member]

Telling people not to take Smash seriously in the thread for speculation of Smash newcomers seems like pots calling kettles black.

Sorry, but I dont get your analogy. A lot of the news lately are causing people to get angry or annoyed and frankly discussion seems a lot over the place again.

At this point we don't know anything about the DLC, and just getting annoyed by the possible outcomes seems premature.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

Sorry, but I dont get your analogy. A lot of the news lately are causing people to get angry or annoyed and frankly discussion seems a lot over the place again.

At this point we don't know anything about the DLC, and just getting annoyed by the possible outcomes seems premature.

Everybody, settle down. We need to really just be discussing how many more Dragon Quest reps we'll get next DLC round.
(I'm just teasing! XD)