Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SirCamp

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
463
Seems the discussions are a bit redundant now with the whole 1st party vs 3rd party.

In all honesty, I feel that the whole discussion is kind of repetitive and the fact that some people hold the whole Smash series as this Nintendo/gaming museum is a bit disappointing. I feel that people are just taking it too seriously when it is a game and most likely the DLC is being picked with the "wouldn't it be fun if" mindset instead.
I get what you’re trying to say. It’s not that serious, we should all just have fun etc. but I think there are some assumptions implicit in what you’re trying to argue. The “wouldn’t it be fun if” mentality can mean wildly different things depending on the person. Someone who likes to view smash as a Nintendo/gaming museum does so because they think that is cool, fun , and meaningful to them. Telling them not to think that way and instead focus on fun just misses their point/perspective.

I enjoy Smash for many different reasons, but the Nintendo Allstar theme is a huge part of it for me. That’s how the games started and, while the games have evolved somewhat, it remains a huge part of Smash’s DNA in my opinion. Smash wouldn’t exist today without it. And personally I’d like to see that continue to be a main focus of the series. Without that, the game is simply less appealing to me. Full stop.

That’s why I was slightly disappointed by the removal of trophies. Even if they were a relatively small part of the game, they still felt special and evocative of what I always felt Smash was suppose to be. One thing I never see people bring up, but I thought was honestly one of the coolest thing Smash has done, was when Brawl introduced demos of the games from series featured in Smash. It really felt like it was paying homage to all the game and characters showcased in Smash and really solidified what I always felt was at the heart of Smash. A love of Nintendo, gaming, and both of their histories.
 

ZeldaPlayer87

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I don’t know how I’d feel about Reimu honestly. I’m not familiar with her or her games, though to be fair, I’m not familiar with Earthbound either and Ness and Lucas have been around a long time. Is Reimu a realistic choice though? I’d suspect Arle gets in ahead or her.
 
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I don’t know how I’d feel about Reimu honestly. I’m not familiar with her or her games, though to be fair, I’m not familiar with Earthbound either and Ness and Lucas have been around a long time. Is Reimu a realistic choice though? I’d suspect Arle gets in ahead or her.
I don't see why they're in direct competition. Arle is a Sega character, Reimu is an indie, they don't share genres, and the only thing they have in common is being much more popular in Japan than in the West.
 

IceKitsune

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You know I thought of characters that aren't really talked about but would be interesting to have in the game for various reasons. Ruby Heart, SonSon and Amingo from MVC 2. All are original characters to that game so they would be representing the previously biggest crossover in gaming history and one of the most popular fighting games of all time. They could easily incorporate the tag team aspect just have it work like Pokemon Trainer.

I think that would be quite the interesting addition, what about everyone else?
 

venomthebest

Smash Rookie
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You know I thought of characters that aren't really talked about but would be interesting to have in the game for various reasons. Ruby Heart, SonSon and Amingo from MVC 2. All are original characters to that game so they would be representing the previously biggest crossover in gaming history and one of the most popular fighting games of all time. They could easily incorporate the tag team aspect just have it work like Pokemon Trainer.

I think that would be quite the interesting addition, what about everyone else?
another popular character they could add would be Bub and Bob from bubble and bobble:bubblebobble:I feel like they are an unsung "hero" of sorts. A lot of people know who they are and have great memories playing their games but don't really consider them because of louder fan favorites like geno and sorts
 

Flyboy

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You know I thought of characters that aren't really talked about but would be interesting to have in the game for various reasons. Ruby Heart, SonSon and Amingo from MVC 2. All are original characters to that game so they would be representing the previously biggest crossover in gaming history and one of the most popular fighting games of all time. They could easily incorporate the tag team aspect just have it work like Pokemon Trainer.

I think that would be quite the interesting addition, what about everyone else?
I would be popping off so hard for Ruby Heart you have no idea. No one else would but Marvel 2 is one of my favorite games ever and I've always wanted her to get her own pirate adventure game. She's awesome.
 
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I don’t know how I’d feel about Reimu honestly. I’m not familiar with her or her games, though to be fair, I’m not familiar with Earthbound either and Ness and Lucas have been around a long time. Is Reimu a realistic choice though? I’d suspect Arle gets in ahead or her.
Depends on what your stance is on an indie character, tbh. At this point, if an indie character is getting in, it's her and I don't think there's any competition. (No, I don't think Quote is likely). She'd be great though alongside bringing a legendary soundtrack.
 

CapitaineCrash

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Depends on what your stance is on an indie character, tbh. At this point, if an indie character is getting in, it's her and I don't think there's any competition. (No, I don't think Quote is likely). She'd be great though alongside bringing a legendary soundtrack.
I think that if we do have an indie character it will be Steve from Minecraft. He's much more popular worldwide and with Microsoft on board, it's not impossible to have another one ip from them.
 

EricTheGamerman

Smash Champion
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If that were the case, you wouldn't have any Splatoon, Fire Emblem or Metroid, DK newcomers in Ultimate. Those all got massive amounts of hype. How many people are begging for Fire Emblem 3 Houses reps? Xenoblade? Even Geno is a kind of grey area 'Nintendo' character.

I think people, rightfully, can get hyped about Nintendo characters, both new and old. Just because putting Master Chief or whatnot into Smash will make headlines and waves doesn't mean that it should override any first party choices.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Several Nintendo franchises were given a second chance because of Smash. The very reason we even have Fire Emblem games now is likely directly tied to Melee. Putting Steve from Minecraft into Smash won't make a difference to Minecraft continuing. It'll just get Minecraft players interested in playing, but probably not in significant numbers because the genre is so different.

Regarding series sales, since you mentioned F-Zero... some Nintendo franchises like Xenoblade never broke 1 million sales (sometimes not even half that) until they got on Switch. Yet they were given multiple opportunities to do so. Even some of the Mario spinoffs sold poorly at times, but they got sequels that did well again. If Nintendo budgets appropriately, or puts in good effort, they can revive series that dwindled. After all, a diverse portfolio is more appealing. If they just relied on third parties to fill out their non Mario/Zelda/Pokemon roster, that would make their system far less appealing. Might as well just stick to other consoles or PC at that point, since they play the games better, get more franchises, and tend to get them years earlier. Nintendo doesn't chase raw power or online infrastructure, so they have put themselves in a position where they have to push their own software to get people to buy their hardware.
The issue is that third parties get to pull triple duty over first party character in that they satisfy fans AND can pull in new people to Smash AND further cement Smash as the definitive biggest in gaming crossover. A first party at absolute best can satisfy fans AND maybe bring new prestige to a franchise. We can talk all about the IPs that Smash "brought back," but how many actually resulted in anything? Fire Emblem is the singular franchise that actually got noticeably bigger post Smash and expanded into the West because of its inclusion. Kid Icarus? Only got brought back because it was another Sakurai passion project and Nintendo has no interest in develop the IP further it seems, so it wasn't necessarily all that Smash related. Captain Falcon was an incredibly popular character from early on in Smash, but F-Zero sales just kept falling and falling until they abandoned the IP in 2004. Duck Hunt got a release on Wii U... and that was it, so I wouldn't really call that much either. Xenoblade might be worth examining, but the entire catalyst for Xenoblade Chronicles even coming west in the first place was Operation Rainfall, so it's difficult for me to ascertain how much of an impact Smash had vs it naturally progressing. There's not actually much evidence of franchises "getting a second chance" or actually getting meaningful revivals because of Smash... they mostly just get added into the museum and remain there.

And it shouldn't be on Smash to try and revive franchises people didn't pay enough attention to when they were coming out. That's how you end up with the actual exact "promotional rep" roster people mercilessly criticized Smash 4 about, particularly with the likes of Corrin and in Ultimate with Isabelle and Incineroar. If characters are included in Smash just to revive another series, then they are perhaps the most complete embodiment of "promotional rep" unless there's actual fan demand behind them (and currently there is really only one that stands out in Isaac and Golden Sun). No, putting Steve in Smash won't make much difference to Minecraft, but it adds literally the most popular IP to the world of Smash and would engage with a number of the 15 million Smash Ultimate players in its inclusion. It's not inherently worth less as an inclusion just because the game doesn't need Smash to survive.

Most of the franchises Nintendo has abandoned had multiple chances to perform better than they kept doing. Golden Sun was a moderately successful game that sold maybe 3 million copies between the first two and completely bombed on the third game. It's the exact opposite growth for a game you should be interested in as a company, and Camelot had the capacity to produce more Mario sports games that fill in another important gap for Nintendo products (Sports games have become increasingly rare on Nintendo consoles). A more diverse portfolio is appealing, but if the games just aren't selling, that's not actually meaningful diversification of the portfolio. Nintendo knows this and pushes it towards R&D and new experiences with things like LABO or investing in Platinum Games to produce big and important content for their systems. Even if these projects don't always do incredibly well, they do advance Nintendo's beliefs in innovation and can lead to bigger advancements down the line (See the Wii U essentially prototyping the Switch). The problem is also that the idea of diversification works actively against many of these franchises. Golden Sun? We've already got a massive JRPGs with Pokemon and now Xenoblade. Advance Wars? We've got a bigger and more popular SRPG in Fire Emblem now. Chibi-Robo? We've got a literal pile of cute mascots with adventurous gameplay that sell much better. F-Zero? We've got Mario Kart as the premiere arcade racer title and arcade racers have fallen further and further out of consumer favor.

Nintendo does push their independent IPs and I'm not saying that they can't rely on them to some extent... but they also have to have third party support to fill out their lineup since all their production companies still isn't enough for most gamers. It's an essential part of the value to the console experience, and we see this with Switch. Yes, they are playing technologically inferior ports of old games in many ways... BUT, Nintendo has found a way to fundamentally shape that experience different from the competitors and thus brings people in. Not to mention, many Nintendo fans of old have missed years of third party IPs out of brand loyalty, so every new third party game is a potential new experience for these people. Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon are always going to the huge draws to Nintendo consoles. Games like F-Zero might be nice and able to make a huge comeback under the right circumstances... but it's a risk Nintendo knows and chooses not to take when they do know they can attain success with certain IPs that are bigger and earn more fanfare.
 

cothero

Smash Ace
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Messages
592
Sorry for repeating myself, but i'll say it again: the Smash Community is made up of a load of crybabies ****pants.


You read it right. Some fool kids are trying to boycott a character who's not even released yet, bEcAuSe tHeY dOn'T KnOw HiM. DADDY SAKURAI MEAN! Boohoo!
 
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EricTheGamerman

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Sorry for repeating myself, but i'll say it again: the Smash Community is made up of a load of crybabies ****pants.

You read it right. Some fool kids are trying to boycott a character who's not even released yet, bEcAuSe tHeY dOn'T KnOw HiM. DADDY SAKURAI MEAN! Boohoo!
Obviously, this is the worst part of the fan base doing something reprehensible, but I do think stuff like this is why I'm so adamant on defending third party inclusions. It's not just that people don't like them, it's that some fans throw an absolute fit when they're not directed towards them and go full-on scorched earth in talking about how these characters are not important or relevant or whatever specifically. I wasn't a part of the Smash fan base prior to Pac-Man's reveal, but when I hear stuff about opposition to him at the time, it does greatly sadden me. Like, not all of the characters included through third parties appeal to everyone or even the "base" (of about 100,000 loud people online that is), but they are beloved characters that do appeal to a number of the people who have bought into Ultimate, and they're money is absolutely as good as yours in purchasing and supporting certain DLC. There's 15 million Smash Ultimate players, it's going to not only appeal to some of them, but many of them and if it happens to bring in new people? All the better from Nintendo's perspective.
 
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venomthebest

Smash Rookie
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Messages
10
Sorry for repeating myself, but i'll say it again: the Smash Community is made up of a load of crybabies ****pants.


You read it right. Some fool kids are trying to boycott a character who's not even released yet, bEcAuSe tHeY dOn'T KnOw HiM. DADDY SAKURAI MEAN! Boohoo!
This is so sad to see, just accept Terry as much as sakurai does. If sakurai thinks a character deserves to be in smash then we should too even if we don't recognize them at first.
 
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Sorry for repeating myself, but i'll say it again: the Smash Community is made up of a load of crybabies ****pants.


You read it right. Some fool kids are trying to boycott a character who's not even released yet, bEcAuSe tHeY dOn'T KnOw HiM. DADDY SAKURAI MEAN! Boohoo!
Yep. That's a bruh moment. Why would they even do that? Even think it? Sure I didn't want Terry for example but instead of harassing SNK they could take the opportunity to learn about the company and maybe they'll actually like their games. It's not even going to accomplish anything anyways it'll just get employees of SNK annoyed at best.

SNK isn't even shilling it's that Sakurai chose to put in an SNK over your preferred character and you know what? That's fine if he thinks he can do something interesting with Terry then by all means bring him on. They should just chill out and hope for their preferred character like the rest of us.
 

cothero

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
592
Obviously, this is the worst part of the fan base doing some reprehensible, but I do think stuff like this is why I'm so adamant on defending third party inclusions. It's not just that people don't like them, it's that some fans throw an absolute fit when they're not directed towards them and go full-on scorched earth in talking about how these characters are not important or relevant or whatever specifically. I wasn't a part of the Smash fan base prior to Pac-Man's reveal, but when I hear stuff about opposition to him at the time, it does greatly sadden me. Like, not all of the characters included through third parties appeal to everyone or even the "base" (of about 100,000 loud people online that is), but they are beloved characters that do appeal to a number of the people who have bought into Ultimate, and they're money is absolutely as good as yours in purchasing and supporting certain DLC. There's 15 million Smash Ultimate players, it's going to not only appeal to some of them, but many of them and if it happens to bring in new people? All the better from Nintendo's perspective.
I absolutely agree.
 
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Sorry for repeating myself, but i'll say it again: the Smash Community is made up of a load of crybabies ****pants.


You read it right. Some fool kids are trying to boycott a character who's not even released yet, bEcAuSe tHeY dOn'T KnOw HiM. DADDY SAKURAI MEAN! Boohoo!
lmao I saw this thread days ago.
In fairness, this is 4chan/Some 4chan clone and reflects literally the worst part of every single community, including Smash.

Although I love how they think this will make ANY difference. Like if Sakurai was just casually scrolling Youtube SNK videos and saw "Oh no! 100 dislikes? Guess it's time to delete Greninja" (dead meme). They're just degenerates.
 

RcS735

Smash Rookie
Joined
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Messages
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Sorry for repeating myself, but i'll say it again: the Smash Community is made up of a load of crybabies ****pants.


You read it right. Some fool kids are trying to boycott a character who's not even released yet, bEcAuSe tHeY dOn'T KnOw HiM. DADDY SAKURAI MEAN! Boohoo!
Am I the only one that like it when characters that I've never hear of get added to smash? It give me a reason to go out of my own bubble and actually learn something new rather then just watching the same top ten characters that should be in smash videos on repeat.
 

Roberk

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I've been gone from SB for a couple of months, but I guess I'll try to pop back in for this extra DLC speculation. The recent Famitsu column is pretty damning for first parties imo, but I still hope that an Astral Chain rep and/or a Three Houses rep can make it in. Astral Chain might even have a bit of an edge because it's a brand new IP ("new world") that's pretty unique even compared to potential third parties, while a TH rep would be an 8th FE character (as much as I'd love one). Honestly, there's little I see wrong with wanting these reps, they come from successful games and are unique both in design and moveset (non-sword lords with morally gray personalities, a police officer with a stando, etc.). It'd also be neat to have a character from the Switch-era. However, if Nintendo really does want to make the DLC about turning Smash into a gaming museum of iconic characters, don't pass up the Chief.
1568257946892.png
 

DevaAshera

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,293
True, but that can be a bit wonky. Nintendo has a small but growing presence in Iran. Thing is Iran's gaming sphere is heavily hard-core. We're talking "I won't play Smash unless I get to play as Snake or Bayonetta!" hardcore.

EDIT: TIL Crash is actually a fan pick in Iran. So him getting into Smash would raise Smash's profile there.
Its not really a big player in the gaming scene yet though, from what I can tell..though Japanese culture has always had a 'Japan First, Everyone Else Second' mindset overall, though some people, especially those that deal internationally, may have overcome that particular cultural issue.
Considering we only have 1 bad pick so far this should be more interesting
Really? While not all of them are ones I'd pick, none of them are 'bad picks' since thats a very subjective comment.
Yeah Joker was pretty bad but at least he was the first.
You're joking right? The main character from one of the most successful and talked about RPG from 2017 was..a bad pick?
Gimmie those female Hero alts, a Slime AT, and Estark as a Boss!
Yeah..I'll always be disappointed that I couldn't play as my favorite hero while her infinitely more boring male counterpart was included..

Am I the only one that like it when characters that I've never hear of get added to smash? It give me a reason to go out of my own bubble and actually learn something new rather then just watching the same top ten characters that should be in smash videos on repeat.
Yeah..I mean, these morons probably don't get the irony when everyone and their mother loved Marth & Roy..they were infinitely more obscure to the western world than Terry is..
 
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ROBnWatch

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Sorry for repeating myself, but i'll say it again: the Smash Community is made up of a load of crybabies ****pants.


You read it right. Some fool kids are trying to boycott a character who's not even released yet, bEcAuSe tHeY dOn'T KnOw HiM. DADDY SAKURAI MEAN! Boohoo!
Geez. I don’t/didn’t know who Terry is, but at least I’m happy for those who wanted him. This is just stupidity. Why would anyone waste their time doing this? As if it’s going to change anything. If you don’t like/want him, simply don’t buy him. Or, play one of the other 70+ characters in the game.
 
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Am I the only one that like it when characters that I've never hear of get added to smash? It give me a reason to go out of my own bubble and actually learn something new rather then just watching the same top ten characters that should be in smash videos on repeat.
It's funny, actually. I've seen prime examples of people asking for exactly this, characters they do not expect, characters outside the 7 characters discussed on the daily. But suddenly when exactly that happens they get upset that it's not one of the 7 characters discussed on the daily.

Like... "Oh I want an unexpected character in Smash"
Terry: Yo!
"No, not you"

The community behaves in strange ways sometimes.
 

toonito

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
149
This is my list of 3rd party characters to watch for Ultimate DLC (has since expanded due to additional fighters):

Bethesda
Doom Slayer (Doom)
Dragonborn (Skyrim)

SNK
Terry Bogard (Fatal Fury, 74)
Kyo Kusanagi (King of Fighters)
Nakoruru (Samurai Showdown)
Marco (Metal Slug)

Activision
Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
Tracer (Overwatch)

Koei Tecmo
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Kasumi (Dead or Alive)

Level 5
Jibanyan (Yo-Kai Watch)
Professor Layton (Professor Layton)

Ubisoft
Ezio Auditore (Assassin's Creed)
Rayman (Rayman)

Capcom
Jill Valentine or Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil)
Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter)
Dante (Devil May Cry)
Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)

Namco
Heihachi, Jin, or Kazuya Mishima (Tekken)
Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
Siegfried/Nightmare (Soul Edge/Calibur)
Solaire or Chosen Undead (Dark Souls)

Konami
Frogger (Frogger)

Microsoft
Master Chief (Halo)
Steve (Minecraft)


Square-Enix
Geno (Super Mario RPG)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
Sora (Kingdom Hearts)


I'm predicting two one of these three for the Fighter Pass: Resident Evil, Ninja Gaiden, and Doom.

As for 1st Party characters as DLC:

Nintendo
Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven)

Byleth, Edelgard, Claude, or Dimitri (Fire Emblem: Three Houses)

Final Evolution of Scorbunny, Grookey, or Sobble (Pokemon Sword & Shield): Probably an unpopular opinion but if a Galar rep doesn't make it in as DLC for Ultimate I think Smash 6 would likely have a Gen IX rep instead.

Rex & Pyra (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)

Astral Chain and ARMS might get playable characters in the next Smash game. As for who from Nintendo gets in Ultimate DLC I have no clue lol.
 
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アスナ サファイア
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Sorry for repeating myself, but i'll say it again: the Smash Community is made up of a load of crybabies ****pants.

You read it right. Some fool kids are trying to boycott a character who's not even released yet, bEcAuSe tHeY dOn'T KnOw HiM. DADDY SAKURAI MEAN! Boohoo!
Remind me again what toxicity has to do with Newcomer/DLC Speculation? Please stay on topic.

If you want to discuss issues within the community (and how to fix them) please use the Serious Discussion board.
I guess the Terry Social can also work in this situation. But yeah, please keep toxicity discussion out of this thread. Bringing attention to the negative parts of the community helps no one.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Semi-related, to people bemoaning how Nintendo is "abandoning the core audience" or whatever by focusing less on first party additions... do something about it. Characters like Ridley and King K. Rool got in through massive fan support by the core audience that was unified in their efforts to communicate the importance of such characters to Nintendo. Third parties appeal to Nintendo for a reason right now, and the best way to sway them from that thought process is to show them that your character(s) are inherently profitable and supported by a huge faction of people. To Nintendo proper, a lot of the well of instantly "successful and prominent" characters have already gotten in, so it's much more difficult for them to recognize which characters are going to actually be beneficial in terms of investment.

And beyond that, I have to also emphasize, if you don't like the direction Smash is going, you've got to vote with your wallet. Smash fans have traditionally been terrible at putting their money where their mouth is, and the sales don't reflect anything but success to Nintendo right now, so by their own calculations, they are doing everything right. They're unlikely to change course unless they have something to coerce them into taking such action.

I do want to emphasize that I'm not wholly against first party characters in Smash DLC at this point. Dixie Kong, Isaac, and Chibi Robo are three characters I'd ****ing love to see get in. But it's also really hard for me to look at a roster as diverse and extensive as Smash with 67 playable Nintendo characters and not feel damn near completely content since almost everything big Nintendo related is already represented. I feel like we're maybe 10 characters off from just being out of Nintendo characters that people really want and can still rally behind. Support groups start splintering the more obscure and niche you get, and that's an issue of choosing characters for Smash. We're pretty much at an almost entirely realized Nintendo roster, so it's hard for me to see the need for some equal and opposite reaction of first party characters after a season of third party DLC options. Especially when something like Mario vs. Master Chief could be on the table and this crossover opportunity is self described by Sakurai as once in a lifetime. Which isn't to say we won't get any first party characters in the remaining DLC, I certainly think a couple are still possible, but I don't expect them to be the focus for the rest of Ultimate's life cycle. Someone like Bandanna Dee can always be a part of a future Smash game because Nintendo owns him and will not stop making Kirby games. But a game that includes Sora, Master Chief, and Gordon Freeman (I don't think we're getting all of those characters, it's just an example) in an officially licensed capacity fighting Mario in beautifully realized movesets that have never existed before in a fighting game? That's the opportunity I don't want to miss personally. If this is to be Sakurai's swan song, let's see how crazy and ambitious we can get with such crossovers since it's incredibly unlikely to be achieved again.
 

Us3inMN

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If this is to be Sakurai's swan song, let's see how crazy and ambitious we can get with such crossovers since it's incredibly unlikely to be achieved again.
I agree! I don't really care who we get at this point, it's just exciting to see all of these game worlds collide!
If you were told back when Brawl came out that there would be a fight between Cloud, Miis, Villager, Banjo & Kazooie, Wii Fit Trainer, and Bayonetta, you would have said that it was impossible. Yet, here we are.
 
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Semi-related, to people bemoaning how Nintendo is "abandoning the core audience" or whatever by focusing less on first party additions... do something about it. Characters like Ridley and King K. Rool got in through massive fan support by the core audience that was unified in their efforts to communicate the importance of such characters to Nintendo. Third parties appeal to Nintendo for a reason right now, and the best way to sway them from that thought process is to show them that your character(s) are inherently profitable and supported by a huge faction of people. To Nintendo proper, a lot of the well of instantly "successful and prominent" characters have already gotten in, so it's much more difficult for them to recognize which characters are going to actually be beneficial in terms of investment.

And beyond that, I have to also emphasize, if you don't like the direction Smash is going, you've got to vote with your wallet. Smash fans have traditionally been terrible at putting their money where their mouth is, and the sales don't reflect anything but success to Nintendo right now, so by their own calculations, they are doing everything right. They're unlikely to change course unless they have something to coerce them into taking such action.

I do want to emphasize that I'm not wholly against first party characters in Smash DLC at this point. Dixie Kong, Isaac, and Chibi Robo are three characters I'd ****ing love to see get in. But it's also really hard for me to look at a roster as diverse and extensive as Smash with 67 playable Nintendo characters and not feel damn near completely content since almost everything big Nintendo related is already represented. I feel like we're maybe 10 characters off from just being out of Nintendo characters that people really want and can still rally behind. Support groups start splintering the more obscure and niche you get, and that's an issue of choosing characters for Smash. We're pretty much at an almost entirely realized Nintendo roster, so it's hard for me to see the need for some equal and opposite reaction of first party characters after a season of third party DLC options. Especially when something like Mario vs. Master Chief could be on the table and this crossover opportunity is self described by Sakurai as once in a lifetime. Which isn't to say we won't get any first party characters in the remaining DLC, I certainly think a couple are still possible, but I don't expect them to be the focus for the rest of Ultimate's life cycle. Someone like Bandanna Dee can always be a part of a future Smash game because Nintendo owns him and will not stop making Kirby games. But a game that includes Sora, Master Chief, and Gordon Freeman (I don't think we're getting all of those characters, it's just an example) in an officially licensed capacity fighting Mario in beautifully realized movesets that have never existed before in a fighting game? That's the opportunity I don't want to miss personally. If this is to be Sakurai's swan song, let's see how crazy and ambitious we can get with such crossovers since it's incredibly unlikely to be achieved again.
It's not for a lack of trying, man. But there's a point when you just can't do no more. Characters like Waluigi, Isaac, and Bandana Dee have followings that are as big as you can get when most people think first party characters are disconfirmed. If the devs don't throw a bone, like saying first parties are in play too, holding another ballot, or promoting an AT to show it's possible, there's only so much that can be done...
 

Us3inMN

Smash Apprentice
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Not sure if its been talked about on here but I saw some people bring up how its possible they go for Steve the same way they went with Sans. I feel that'd be a pretty fair middle ground
Just make Steve a Swordfighter. They could use either the diamond sword (logical), or the diamond pickaxe (iconic). Make it come with a remix of the default Minecraft music like how Sans came with a remix of Megolavania.
 
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