Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[osby]

Just an off topic question if the next smash game still has Persona or Dragon Quest content in it, do you think that they will add characters from newer games or just keep them the same?

I know not really related to dlc speculation but these questions keep me up at night.

Smash hardly ever replaces the old protags with the new ones, so not sure why it should be different for third parties.

What do you you think of the possibility of Smash updates adding new alternate costumes that would count as 'characters'? Not Mii Fighter costumes, but standard characters' alts.

It would involve replacing a couple of the alternate colors, but you'd get a good trade off, imo. Think of how Bowser Jr's alts are the Koopalings, or Olimar's is Alph, The Hero's is 4 main characters from various DQ games, plus there's several Male characters having Female alts, characters with various costumes, etc.

Unless I'm missing something, I doubt it'd be a huge amount of work besides a new skin, maybe a bit of voice work like the announcer recording new names. But nowhere near as complex as adding a full new character.

For instance:

Fox's alts could be James and Krystal

Falco's alts could be Peppy and Slippy

Sheik's could be Impa

Palutena's could be Medusa

Shulk's could be Rex

Bowser's could be Wart or Dry Bowser

Yoshi's could be Birdo

etc. etc. etc.

The only reason I could see for them to not want to commit to that is to leave these characters open to be full roster fighters later. But honestly, at this point, it's looking like both the general consensus amongst fans and Nintendo is just to go third party from now on.

I think this would be a good way to include more first party reps without going through the process of making whole new fighters. Would there be a reason they wouldn't even consider this on a technical or work level, or is it actually a viable alternative (no pun intended)?

Echoes exist.

 

[Zinith]

All of this is kinda horseshoe theory tbh...

Back in ye olden days, first-party purism was the norm, even after Snake's reveal in Brawl. It was a Nintendo IP after all, so it would make sense to defer to third-party's sparingly. But now in 2019, after all the patterns and validation from Nintendo and Sakurai, now third-party purism is the norm with deference to first-party being spare. Same **** imo

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He's upgraded Assists before. Between games sure, but still, there's precedent. Some are already well on their way to being functional fighters, like Springman or Krystal. That's why people get hopeful. It's like being near the finish line, but not quite making it, and then being told you're lucky to have been in the race at all, so here's a participation trophy. Meanwhile, that guy in the other town in a good runner, so let's invite him to race in your place. Insult to injury! XD

To be honest, reading some of the comments in here, they do kiiiinda come across as some people thinking their opinions matter more if they back third party reps. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but sometimes it almost seems like "duh, third parties are better, stupid!", which is an opinion ultimately.

If people are hopeful at an Assist being promoted in DLC, that's on them. I swear, the biggest issue with the Smash community is it's overconfidence and the lengths people will go in order to say "Characters I like are absolutely, undeniably happening". It's how we got people who literally acted like children for not getting the toy they wanted when Bayo was confirmed, it's how we got the Grinch aftermath, it's how I ended up taking 40 bucks from some dude cause they INSISTED a hanafuda card would be a playable character

 

[Nquoid]

If people are hopeful at an Assist being promoted in DLC, that's on them. I swear, the biggest issue with the Smash community is it's overconfidence and the lengths people will go in order to say "Characters I like are absolutely, undeniably happening". It's how we got people who literally acted like children for not getting the toy they wanted when Bayo was confirmed, it's how we got the Grinch aftermath, it's how I ended up taking 40 bucks from some dude cause they INSISTED a hanafuda card would be a playable character

Right but hear me out, Marin from Link's Awakening is the next character and I will bet you a trillion dollars.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Right but hear me out, Marin from Link's Awakening is the next character and I will bet you a trillion dollars.

That's kinda how it went only I was the one who started the bet. "**** you you do not actually believe that shut up or bet cash money"

 

[perfectchaos83]

If people are hopeful at an Assist being promoted in DLC, that's on them. I swear, the biggest issue with the Smash community is it's overconfidence and the lengths people will go in order to say "Characters I like are absolutely, undeniably happening". It's how we got people who literally acted like children for not getting the toy they wanted when Bayo was confirmed, it's how we got the Grinch aftermath, it's how I ended up taking 40 bucks from some dude cause they INSISTED a hanafuda card would be a playable character

There's a difference between hoping and believing.

The overconfidence also goes both ways, there were many that were insistent that the Fighter Pass was all the DLC we'd get.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

There's a difference between hoping and believing.

The overconfidence also goes both ways, there were many that were insistent that the Fighter Pass was all the DLC we'd get.

While true, the people like myself who thought the Fighter Pass was all we get are happy to be wrong, we felt "Smash 4 had 1 run of DLC, this may indeed be the same too, shame."

 

[Idon]

Just an off topic question if the next smash game still has Persona or Dragon Quest content in it, do you think that they will add characters from newer games or just keep them the same?

I know not really related to dlc speculation but these questions keep me up at night.

If they even make it again, then I'd say it depends on what exactly those new characters are.

If DQ12 is another spellblade and not some weird altercation like DQV, then sure, he could probably replace Solo or Eleven. Hell, they wouldn't even need to replace anyone, just give him more alts than usual.

However, Persona protagonists are completely unlike in their fighting styles, and I would presume that Sakurai would keep Joker on the basis that he already has a normal fanbase, his smash fanbase, and it's much more cost-efficient to use Joker again then to make the controversial decision of replacing him (or anyone for that matter)

 

[Guynamednelson]

Waluigi in the roster or Ryu Haybusa added?

I'm not saying Hayabusa would be bad, but do you really think the mainstream cares more about him over Waluigi?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'm not saying Hayabusa would be bad, but do you really think the mainstream cares more about him over Waluigi?

Do you really think the majority of the mainstream cares that much about DLC in the first place?

At the very most Waluigi would appeal to hardcore Nintendo fans. At least Hayabusa would branch out to Fighting Game Fans, Character Action Game Fans, and Old-School NES Fans.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I'm honestly content with the roster after getting Hero, so hoping for another dream come true would feel a bit greedy... But after hearing that we're getting more characters after the Fighters Pass, I can't help but wish for one more miracle. It's a long shot, and it'll probably never happen, but I'm hoping I get to see the day that "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate x Ys" becomes a thing.

I'll be silently pulling for my boy Adol Christin.

View attachment 236932
Just let a dude dream, okay?

Super duper late to this post but hey, I'm starting a small push for our boy Adol if you wanna come chat about him in the https://smashboards.com/threads/ado...ash-and-general-falcom-support-thread.489045/

 

[Idon]

I'm not saying Hayabusa would be bad, but do you really think the mainstream cares more about him over Waluigi?

This particular brand of logic seems hollow when Terry Bogard exists as a Smash character.
And let's be real here, Hayabusa is at least a few tiers above Terry in terms of "Oh! I know that guy" if not at least for his NES games.

 

[HyruleHero]

I'm not saying Hayabusa would be bad, but do you really think the mainstream cares more about him over Waluigi?

Well to perfectly frank I have no idea what people want from DLC characters. When Joker was announced everyone was happy but then Hero and Banjo came out and people where more "why did this character get added" and now its reached the extreme with Terry. I understand that its probably just because the chance of 'there' preferred characters chances get slimmer each new addition but still.

I think If Waluigi was the last character announced in the fighter pass the internet would explode in hate. If Sakurai adds more Mario characters in the DLC it will go in the same boat as FE did in smash 4, when you think 'iconic' mario characters the roster already covers them all (maybe not toad but hes in Peach and Daisy's moveset). So far this smash roster has been amazing and although I don't know who some characters are I understand their legacy and why they got into smash after some research.

I think peoples idea of what the 'mainstream' is has been distorted to only apply to vocal fans and by far the Waluigi outcry was from vocal fans, but not just that it was also accompanied by trolls as well. I'm sure some people genuinely want Waluigi however there is a plethora of better choices from everyone involved in this game.

EDIT: This is not meant to be an attack on anyone just a shared opinion

 

[Hidan]

If people are hopeful at an Assist being promoted in DLC, that's on them. I swear, the biggest issue with the Smash community is it's overconfidence and the lengths people will go in order to say "Characters I like are absolutely, undeniably happening". It's how we got people who literally acted like children for not getting the toy they wanted when Bayo was confirmed, it's how we got the Grinch aftermath, it's how I ended up taking 40 bucks from some dude cause they INSISTED a hanafuda card would be a playable character

I think that’s my biggest problem with most first party picks right now, the majority of the “big ones” are assist trophies, and there’s very little indication that any (besides the very small potential of Waluigi) will be playable in this game. This list is what I consider “big picks” that are currently assist trophies:

-Waluigi
-Krystal
-Skull Kid
-Midna
-Isaac
-Ashley
-Starfy
-Lyn
-Takamaru
-Spring Man

Outside of this list, for first parties I could see the potential of:
-Rex+Pyra
-Bandanna Waddle Dee
-Eldegard/Byleth
-Gen 8 Pokémon (Probably the final evolution of one of the starters)
-Protagonist (Astral Chain)
-Dixie Kong

If we were to see a Nintendo pass, I think it would be some sort of combination of the six above (the only picks that make sense that aren’t in the game right now imo), but I don’t think that’s very likely at the current moment due to multiple reasons.

 

[Calane]

Super duper late to this post but hey, I'm starting a small push for our boy Adol if you wanna come chat about him in the https://smashboards.com/threads/ado...ash-and-general-falcom-support-thread.489045/

Oh, Cool! I'm glad that somebody finally made a support thread for gaming's greatest adventurer.

I'd be delighted to stop by and lend my support!

 

[GoodGrief741]

What do you you think of the possibility of Smash updates adding new alternate costumes that would count as 'characters'? Not Mii Fighter costumes, but standard characters' alts.

It would involve replacing a couple of the alternate colors, but you'd get a good trade off, imo. Think of how Bowser Jr's alts are the Koopalings, or Olimar's is Alph, The Hero's is 4 main characters from various DQ games, plus there's several Male characters having Female alts, characters with various costumes, etc.

Unless I'm missing something, I doubt it'd be a huge amount of work besides a new skin, maybe a bit of voice work like the announcer recording new names. But nowhere near as complex as adding a full new character.

For instance:

Fox's alts could be James and Krystal

Falco's alts could be Peppy and Slippy

Sheik's could be Impa

Palutena's could be Medusa

Shulk's could be Rex

Bowser's could be Wart or Dry Bowser

Yoshi's could be Birdo

etc. etc. etc.

The only reason I could see for them to not want to commit to that is to leave these characters open to be full roster fighters later. But honestly, at this point, it's looking like both the general consensus amongst fans and Nintendo is just to go third party from now on.

I think this would be a good way to include more first party reps without going through the process of making whole new fighters. Would there be a reason they wouldn't even consider this on a technical or work level, or is it actually a viable alternative (no pun intended)?

At that point just add Echoes.

I mean I know that some people want waluigi in the game and many more want Isaac to be playable I was just trying to make the point that having a new world added to smash is more appealing than adding the millionth Mario rep or a lost JRPG character. I understand these characters have fans and thats why they got in the game as assist trophies but its always safer to get vanilla ice-cream over rainbow for a group of people as majority will like it more.

The idea of people wanting assist trophies to be upgraded seems a little disingenuous to Sakurai when he managed to put these characters in the game just for the fans already.

I don't know maybe it does sound like im imposing my opinion but I just think getting hopes up for assist trophy upgrades is a fools errand.

You are aware that Golden Sun would basically also be a new world added to Smash, right? I mean, if a new character, stage, more than two music tracks, and a couple of Spirits is what it takes, then that certainly delivers. Hell, delivers better than Final Fantasy.

 

[osby]

Assist Trophies aren't some "almost playable" club. There are a lot of popular characters who never became a summonable ally, and there are a lot of Assist Trophies without a support fanbase.

People just treat them as something special because it makes their character look better.

 

[YoshiandToad]

-Gen 8 Pokémon (Probably the final evolution of one of the starters)

This is genuinely a really depressing part of first party support. Starter mon has become standardised to the point Pokemon speculation has become a rather dull thing.

Assist Trophies aren't some "almost playable" club.

Almost playable sounds more like Toad and the Final Smash exclusive characters such as Ganon, Petey Piranha and Giga Bowser to me. Or maybe the Mii outfits, which I guess are wooden spoon prizes.

Assists aren't 'almost playable' as you say, but really do scupper the chances of genuinely popular choices when most of their roles could be filled with less popular cast choices should the assists be used to potentially upgrade. Using Matthew instead of Isaac for example.

Whilst I'd love to be wrong, I just can't see Waluigi, Isaac, Spring Man or Bomberman happening at all this time round.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Whilst I'd love to be wrong, I just can't see Waluigi, Isaac, Spring Man or Bomberman happening at all this time round.

I'm inclined to agree with this, even if I'm not fond of it, I was a pretty big Shadow supporter for this game, Echoes existing and all and then the carpet was thrown from under me, but I'll respect Sakurai's choice. It's cool he's still in as an assist.

I feel the same about Zero, heck I voted Zero for the Smash 4 poll, although in a weird way having Zero as an assist at least makes it feel like my vote did a little something there, even if it wasn't full playability.

 

[Hidan]

This is genuinely a really depressing part of first party support. Starter mon has become standardised to the point Pokemon speculation has become a rather dull thing.

I agree, but what other Gen 8 Pokémon revealed so far fits the bill? I feel like all the new Pokémon revealed wouldn’t translate to Smash very easily (nor would they be ‘iconic’ enough).

With that said I would love something like Zoroark or Lucario to pop up this gen.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I agree, but what other Gen 8 Pokémon revealed so far fits the bill? I feel like all the new Pokémon revealed wouldn’t translate to Smash very easily (nor would they be ‘iconic’ enough).

With that said I would love something like Zoroark or Lucario to pop up this gen.

Revealed thus far? Maybe Obstagoon? He's about the only one though.

Added bonus of sort of gen 3 repping too if anyone cares about getting any gen 3 rep no matter how tenous.

 

[StormC]

Revealed thus far? Maybe Obstagoon? He's about the only one though.

Added bonus of sort of gen 3 repping too if anyone cares about getting any gen 3 rep no matter how tenous.

Poor gen 5 getting neglected again the last truly great pokemon gen.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Poor gen 5 getting neglected again the last truly great pokemon gen.

I don't disagree with this although Gen 3 was my personal peak.

I'm not sure who I'd want from Gen 5 for Smash though. Zoroark was extremely popular but still don't really get how the illusion ability would work.
Hawlucha had some fans too but his niche was taken somewhat by Incineroar.

 

[StormC]

I don't disagree with this although Gen 3 was my personal peak.

I'm not sure who I'd want from Gen 5 for Smash though. Zoroark was extremely popular but still don't really get how the illusion ability would work.
Hawlucha had some fans too but his niche was taken somewhat by Incineroar.

His gimmick is Moxie, getting a power-up every time he takes a stock.

 

[Lenidem]

Maybe Smash doesn't need another playable Pokemon?...

 

[Guynamednelson]

Maybe Smash doesn't need another playable Pokemon?...

Sorry, some of us know Mewtwo's not the only popular one. If more Mario is okay, so is more Pokemon.

 

[ze9]

If the DLC will really go on for long, there's no reason to exclude certain characters that would be well-received just because they already have a small role in the game. That goes for both spirits and assist trophies.

 

[Ben Holt]

Sorry, some of us know Mewtwo's not the only popular one. If more Mario is okay, so is more Pokemon.

Not to mention that Mario and Pokémon are not just Nintendo's two biggest franchises, but the two biggest franchises in ALL OF GAMING.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I would pay good money for Yamper DLC.

 

[StormC]

It's hard to go wrong with a Pokemon fighter, they tend to be some of the most visually interesting Smash fighters. How many franchises have a ninja frog, wolf warrior, and wrestling tiger all under the same roof?

Of course, too many Pokemon is a legitimate concern, but I wouldn't be opposed to one being thrown in the DLC among a bunch of standard humanoid looking third party characters.

 

[N3ON]

Pokemon speculation would be a lot more interesting if GF wasn't insistent on the newest gen getting the spot.

Imagine if we had got a Pokemon that proved itself popular over time instead of one predetermined to have an important role for three years until it gets cycled out.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Pokemon speculation would be a lot more interesting if GF wasn't insistent on the newest gen getting the spot.

Imagine if we had got a Pokemon that proved itself popular over time instead of one predetermined to have an important role for three years until it gets cycled out.

Depending on how long DLC goes, it's entirely possible that the hypothetical Pokemon Gen 8 DLC rep doesn't come out until long after the game drops.

 

[Ben Holt]

Pokemon speculation would be a lot more interesting if GF wasn't insistent on the newest gen getting the spot.

Imagine if we had got a Pokemon that proved itself popular over time instead of one predetermined to have an important role for three years until it gets cycled out.

I'd personally love my two favorites, Dragonite and Gengar, to be playable.
Even if Dragonite is just a Charizard echo.

 

[DevaAshera]

I actually think Sophia looks really goofy compared to Solo. Her hair and outfit are both real dumb.

I mean, you aren't wrong, but for some reason her design grew on me lol

 

[ze9]

For Pokèmon I'm mostly along for the ride, they always turn out to be cool characters.
But if I had to choose... Heracross. He would feel so POWERFUL and we still don't have bugs in the roster.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Just an off topic question if the next smash game still has Persona or Dragon Quest content in it, do you think that they will add characters from newer games or just keep them the same?

It's not like they replaced Cloud with Noctis.

there is no world where I would rather have assist trophies upgraded rather than new characters.

For me it depends on the assist trophy, and the new character.

Like, I'd much rather have Zero or Alucard playable than Steve.

I'm not saying Hayabusa would be bad, but do you really think the mainstream cares more about him over Waluigi?

I think you're confusing the Smash community with the mainstream if you think the mainstream cares about Waluigi.

I don't disagree with this although Gen 3 was my personal peak.

Peak was Gen 4. The new evolutions it added to earlier gen Pokemon are some of the greatest Pokes in the franchise. Mamoswine, Magnezone, Weavile and mother ****ing Honchkrow!

Sorry, some of us know Mewtwo's not the only popular one. If more Mario is okay, so is more Pokemon.

...more Mario isn't really okay either at this point.

 

[Lenidem]

Sorry, some of us know Mewtwo's not the only popular one. If more Mario is okay, so is more Pokemon.

And 'some of us know' that there other popular franchises beside Mario and Pokémon. Eight unique playable characters, counting Pokémon Trainer as one, plus one clone and a load of Pokéballs seems more than enough to me, especially when you take a look at, say, Donkey Kong or Zelda.

Not to mention that Mario and Pokémon are not just Nintendo's two biggest franchises, but the two biggest franchises in ALL OF GAMING.

In terms of sales, yes. But I don't see what is has to do with the roster.

 

[N3ON]

Depending on how long DLC goes, it's entirely possible that the hypothetical Pokemon Gen 8 DLC rep doesn't come out until long after the game drops.

And yet I bet older Pokemon will still be more popular. Not in Smash circles, because no one will expect them, but in general.

Imagine if we could just... get the ones that have proven to be perpetually popular.

I mean I get why we won't, especially because Gen 8 would likely be quite fresh, but... like, did we really need a Gen 7 Pokemon in Ultimate? The Alola games weren't even still coming out, they were on a console that was barely alive, by then they were remaking first gen again. The promotional character didn't even correspond with the promotional window. You couldn't even play as it in the most recent Pokemon game.

Pokemon has so much gold in the backlog, and since the timing didn't really line up, it would've been nice to see a character of longstanding prominence/popularity get recognized instead. But I dream...

 

[DarthEnderX]

But if I had to choose... Heracross. He would feel so POWERFUL and we still don't have bugs in the roster.

I used to be pretty OCD about Pokemon typing in Smash. Smash 4 just had this perfect spread of typings in it's choice of Pokemon. It had 6 Pokemon, covering a total of 10 types, with NO overlap in types.

Normal
Fighting
Flying
Poison
Ground
Rock
Bug
Ghost
Steel
Fire
Water
Grass
Electric
Psychic
Ice
Dragon
Dark
Fairy

If they'd added in Decidueye, that would have taken care of two more, and finished off the fully evolved starter set. But with the return of Pichu and Trainer, and the addition of Incineroar, now we have overlap in Electric, Water, Fire and Dark.

After that, I don't care what Pokemon they add anymore, or if they ever add any again.

 

[N3ON]

I'd personally love my two favorites, Dragonite and Gengar, to be playable.
Even if Dragonite is just a Charizard echo.

If Pokemon wasn't tied to its routine, I think Gengar would be a very popular choice.