Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Opossum]

I consider the lack of big Western made 3rd party franchise a serious hole in the roster considering all of the noise Nintendo makes about Ultimate being the biggest crossover in gaming history and not just Japanese history. That the head honcho himself supposedly doesn't care is a flaw in my book regardless of Ultimate's success now that we've allegedly moved past putting any importance on having more 1st newcomers or Nintendo centric 3rd party franchises post-Ultimate release.


Lot's of Smash fans are idiots, trust me I know. And I also understand that not every pick has or should to be made towards Western tastes less you exclude some major franchises (I'm interested to know of any remaining notable non-mobile Japanese franchises after Dragon Quest and King of Fighters that are obscure over here), but at the end of the day I do have a bit of sentimental attachment to this dysfunctional fanbase & I like seeing them be happy. You can't make everyone happy but I feel Western fans would respond more positively or at least more loudly to a Doom Slayer or a Tracer or Steve than they would a Joker or Hero or Terry.

For what it's worth, the Western reaction to Joker was pretty loud.

 

[shinhed-echi]

My thoughts on the DLC extension:

- I feel Spirits are more likely now to get promoted to full character.
- I feel ATs are a still hard deconfirmation, sadly. (Not to mention AT’s that also have spirits/ Mii costumes, etc)
- “Even More DLC is coming” sounds more than just 2. I’m going to guess it’ll be 4 characters at least.
- I feel Sakurai is going a bit more for more “fan favorites” now.
- 3rd party inclusions are still globally more hype.

That said, I’m already estatic about the amount of characters in the game, and the quality. And now we’re getting even more.
Remember “don’t expect too many Newcomers”?
... yeah, Isn’t Sakurai just adorable? He deserves a well earned vacation.

 

[yeet123]

You know I've been thinking. A lot of people assume that additional fighters = Season 2 DLC. But part of me seems to think they're just an extra independant 2 fighters that will come in February because of the devs having spare time as it seems that Terry and DLC 5 are coming earlier than what the fanbase expected. Especially if Terry is early November.

My bet is that we'll get Waluigi and Geno. MAYBE an echo or two. The end.

 

[Flik]

What do you think the chances are for another character from Square? I'm particularly hopeful for Geno, Sora or 2B, but I'm really not that confident, if only because they seem harder to work with (not necessarily stingy, they just have more... legal stuff on the way, I guess).

Since the Final Fantasy VII Remake is coming next year, I have hopes for Tifa, but problem is that Sephiroth as the main villain also has a good chance - or even Vincent through sheer popularity.

And, of course, Geno; as one of the longest running most wanted characters within the Smash fanbase, his inclusion would really put emphasis on the "please the fans" part.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My bet is that we'll get Waluigi and Geno. MAYBE an echo or two. The end.

I REALLY don't get why people are so confident in an AT promotion as DLC. I get Spirit even though I still think they're off limits, but it just seems like setting yourself up for inevitable disappointment

 

[Deleted member]

Sephiroth or Tifa would make a lot of sense if Square and Nintendo did agree to expand the contract for FFVII content.

 

[Icedragonadam]

My bet is that we'll get Waluigi and Geno. MAYBE an echo or two. The end.

I hate to burst your bubble but Sakurai's latest column implies it'll still be new 3rd party franchises.

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1171720134198624256

 

[merchantofsalt]

(I'm interested to know of any remaining notable non-mobile Japanese franchises after Dragon Quest and King of Fighters that are obscure over here).

There are some remaining Japanese franchises that are global concerns which really deserve inclusion in Smash. The first that come to mind are Resident Evil and Tekken. Arguably also Monster Hunter and Dark Souls.

Beyond that, you have a ton. Puyo Puyo, Kunio-kun, Ninja Gaiden, Wonder Boy, Adventure Island, Bonk, Gradius/Parodius, Tokimeki Memorial, Metal Slug, The House of the Dead, Phantasy Star, Tantei Jinguuji Saburo (aka Jake Hunter), Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons, Monster Rancher, Contra, Umihara Kawase, Fate, Danganrompa, Shiren the Wanderer, Granblue Fantasy...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If I'm being honest, the one thing that confuses me about Shamtae is that Smash fans treat her as if she's one of the major indie icons, but I rarely see any of the Shantae games brought up when most people talk about influential indie games. Other than seniority, what kind of an impact did Shantae leave on the indie gaming landscape? The highest praises I've heard for the Shantae games is "yeah, they're fun", while most indie fans will talk for hours about how something like Cave Story, Undertale, or Shovel Knight are among some of the best games ever made. Hell, as much as people like to meme on Undertale and Touhou, they have massive online followings that rival a lot of AAA titles, so their influence there cannot be understated. Maybe I'm missing something here, but for me it'd be a little weird if Shantae got in before any of the other more influential games that do a better job representing indies as a whole. I'm aware this sounds super gatekeeper-y and believe me, I have nothing against Shantae fans, but that's just my preference in terms of indies.

If I'm being honest, I love Shantae more than any of the other indie darlings but that's about as best as I can describe Shantae. "It's fun." When I think of it any deeper I draw a blank. Maybe I'm just bad at looking at the deep parts of something like Shovel knight, I don't know lol

 

[Nekoo]

I think Sora might have more of a chance if we go by the whole "Pack 2 won't have stages" idea. There's nothing set in stone saying that's the case, but it seems incredibly likely that there wouldn't be stages to me at least, and that would mean that Sora would have no music conflicts with Disney. I just hope if he does get in and if he has a command menu similar to Hero that they keep the KH menu sound effects because I am unreasonably nostalgic for those sounds

Yeah, I've loved Nier since the original one. The fact that Automata was even made is nothing short of a miracle to me, considering the first was pretty niche.

My personal guess is that Sora and Geno would be the frontrunners, and both have a great amount of fan demand. It's kinda like the Phoenix/Jill thing people bring up - both have their history, good points, and would bring new things to Smash so it could go either way, depending on who Sakurai wants.

The only worry I have with either is content, as both belong to the Square side of things (KHI still has the Squaresoft label), which makes me wonder about copright divisions. So I hope that Yoko Shimomura can pull some strings for songs, because God ****, is KH's soundtrack good.

For what it's worth, all of the Musicals pieces that aren't reprise of Disney themes/FF themes and Utada Hikaru seems to be owned by Shimomura even though the Concert and OST are under the Disney Record Label (Probably because they have Disney Themes in here, like Halloween Town and more) Except one oddities, this one being the the Piano Collections Kingdom Hearts Field & Battle themes, where, beside being in special thanks, and the usual KH copyright/Square-Enix Copyright, there is not a single Disney/FF song, and is just made of Original Songs like Hollow Bastion, Lazy Afternoon and such.

So it seems that it TECHNICALLY shouldn't be an issue musics wise, like FF was, if Shimomura is on board.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

More FF7 characters wouldn't fit very well with "adding more worlds" to Smash.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Legitimate questions here: we got news that more DLC fighters are incoming. That should, in theory, quell worries that the next character eliminates all of the others.

So why are we still trying to disqualify picks instead of thinking up new possibilities? Why are we still this concerned with comparing sales, "big series vs niche series" or "how influential game X is"? Why are we still nitpicking on "core Smash fanbase vs general gaming fans"?

I'm seeing more salt in this thread than I did before E3 and that's saying something. Especially considering we just got a bunch of really good announcements in a row. For the first time in a while, pretty much everyone has reason to celebrate, regardless of whose pick ends up getting in next.

Yet here we are, using measuring sticks of fan support and "relevance". While continuing to discuss the same 3 ~ 4 characters we've already talked about for the past 6 months.

Is this thing really fun for anyone? Honestly want to know here.

I still enjoy it. Speculation is about making nuanced and well reasoned arguments about why you think certain characters will be included in Smash in the future and having fun with those predictions. It's interesting to see how your analysis of a situation differs from others and worth considering information from a variety of sources to make the most complete picture of your speculation. That naturally means other characters will "get less priority" or "disqualified" as you attempt to make those arguments in the name of opportunity cost. Part of speculation is examining which characters don't make as much sense and arriving at your conclusions for them. And yes, people are reexamining lots of characters in news of the DLC announcement, and this is the most open I've seen discussion in months honestly, so I don't see how we're disqualifying picks anymore than usual (and I would argue that it's less often than usual). The whole field of speculation just opened back up potentially, so now we have to build a new speculation scene and determine where our evidence takes us in the name of that speculation. It's the natural ebb and flow of Smash speculation as with every announcement. The ground shifts and we keep speculating.

The reason for the "core Smash fan base vs general gaming fans" is that a number of people have grown increasingly tired of the Smash fanbase's reaction to every thing that isn't specifically on a "poll" or a "ballot pick" or whatever that isn't exactly to their taste. We've spent years with people rebelling against massive franchises and characters such as Pac-Man, Cloud, Dragon Quest, and Street Fighter because they weren't "Smash material" or whatever have you. Hell, people were angry about Isabelle of all characters despite her being exactly what people advocating first parties should be supporting. That's obviously generalizing, but it's exhausting from the perspective of people who love more than just Nintendo to have to argue the merits of characters that rival goddamn Mario in terms of recognition. Smash is also just a really damn big series that sells and appeals to lots of people, almost 10 times more than the people who just voted in the ballot, and a hell of a lot more than the maybe 100,000 people who regularly post on forums and become "known as the Smash community." And there's an unwillingness of some individuals' part to acknowledge how limited their range of understanding is because of that fact. We're not trying to say that the core fan base has not merit and can't be appealed to, but we are saying that they can't be all of speculation either. And people complain about additions even though there has been an incredibly great balance and approach to Ultimate's additions. Ultimate was built with the core fan base largely in mind, so there's a general interest to see where else it can go from its current placement.

I'm not getting the same 'third-parties only' vibe from PushDustin's translation that most of you are getting, but it's better to rip off the band-aid early on. Gotta say though, very disappointed in Smash right now - feels like they just want to turn it into a tool to promote themselves by appealing to whatever fanbase they can.

This is how Smash has literally always been and I don't understand how you're surprised this is what it is. It is, and always has been, a Nintendo advertising tool built to pull people in with new IPs to potentially kickstart their love for other Nintendo IPs and also sale as an individual product. When your game sales over 15 million copies in less than a year, you have the potential to appeal to lots of fan bases and make them happy with character inclusions, and you also get better word of mouth as a bigger and more adventurous crossover which directly and positively impacts the goals of Smash already has of individual sales and promotions. Yes, it's made with lots of love and passion and attention to detail, but Smash has always been a promotional vehicle.

 

[Deathcarter]

For what it's worth, the Western reaction to Joker was pretty loud.

Can't personally say anything about how big the reaction to Joker was to be honest. Ultimate release hype kind of drowned out his reveal for me and while Nintendo's online did crash upon his release I've always considered that more about Nintendo being an absolute **** show when it comes to anything online related than anything to do with Joker.

 

[shocktarts17]

So I've been away for a while, who are some of the front-runners for 3rd party DLC options?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

There are some remaining Japanese franchises that are global concerns which really deserve inclusion in Smash. The first that come to mind are Resident Evil and Tekken. Arguably also Monster Hunter and Dark Souls.

Beyond that, you have a ton. Puyo Puyo, Kunio-kun, Ninja Gaiden, Wonder Boy, Adventure Island, Bonk, Gradius/Parodius, Tokimeki Memorial, Metal Slug, The House of the Dead, Phantasy Star, Tantei Jinguuji Saburo (aka Jake Hunter), Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons, Monster Rancher, Contra, Umihara Kawase, Fate, Danganrompa, Shiren the Wanderer, Granblue Fantasy...

Holy ****, someone brought up Shiren the Wanderer. I found out about him when I was looking for samurai archetype characters for Smash, and I think he's great. He has a ferret!

 

[Deleted member]

Something cool they could do with Sora is allow him to do combos and trap opponents into a chain of jabs while being in the air, as in the KH games.

Sora seems like the kind of character who would shine a lot regarding aerial movement and combo attacks, something that does really catch my interest a lot.

And yeah, music doesn't have to be a problem for him since KH has enough non-Disney tracks for a DLC selection.

 

[MainJPW]

More FF7 characters wouldn't fit very well with "adding more worlds" to Smash.

But it does fit with "expand the world of Smash".

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Something cool they could do with Sora is allow him to do combos and trap opponents into a chain of jabs while being in the air, as in the KH games.

Sora seems like the kind of character who would shine a lot regarding aerial movement and combo attacks, something that does really catch my interest a lot.

And yeah, music doesn't have to be a problem for him since KH has enough non-Disney tracks for a DLC selection.

Jesus christ, how far has Smash fallen when being able to do aerial combos is considered special?

 

[Calamitas]

I think there's some allure to Smash drawing in third parties, though I'm heavily biased considering

I definitely understand the dislike though, especially consider the mixed receptions of Terry and Hero

Terry is someone I actually enjoy a bit more than everyone else so far. I think the fact that he is so niché and not getting the best reception is actually endearing him a bit to me.
I still couldn't care less for Joker, though.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think Sora might have more of a chance if we go by the whole "Pack 2 won't have stages" idea. There's nothing set in stone saying that's the case, but it seems incredibly likely that there wouldn't be stages to me at least, and that would mean that Sora would have no music conflicts with Disney. I just hope if he does get in and if he has a command menu similar to Hero that they keep the KH menu sound effects because I am unreasonably nostalgic for those sounds

I still think stages are possible if we get more third parties. For Sora, I'd expect Destiny Islands, but my hopes would lie with Twilight Town. It's not heavily associated with him, but I don't think we have any location like that in Smash right now.

Since the Final Fantasy VII Remake is coming next year, I have hopes for Tifa, but problem is that Sephiroth as the main villain also has a good chance - or even Vincent through sheer popularity.

And, of course, Geno; as one of the longest running most wanted characters within the Smash fanbase, his inclusion would really put enphasis on the "please the fans" part.

I've had this in my mind for some time, but... what would be the possibility of Zack as an Echo? I don't know much about him, admittedly, but he also used the Buster Sword, right?

For what it's worth, all of the Musicals pieces that aren't reprise of Disney themes/FF themes and Utada Hikaru seems to be owned by Shimomura even though the Concert and OST are under the Disney Record Label (Probably because they have Disney Themes in here, like Halloween Town and more) Except one oddities, this one being the the Piano Collections Kingdom Hearts Field & Battle themes, where, beside being in special thanks, and the usual KH copyright/Square-Enix Copyright, there is not a single Disney/FF song, and is just made of Original Songs like Hollow Bastion, Lazy Afternoon and such.

So it seems that it TECHNICALLY shouldn't be an issue musics wise, like FF was, if Shimomura is on board.

That's what I'm hoping for, really.

As others have brought up in the past, the problem with older Square Enix properties isn't that they're stingy or greedy, but that they're distributed among several different people/places. Getting one company to agree to something can sometimes be easier than a bunch of people (see how Cloud almost didn't get in Ultimate's base roster compared to how easy Microsoft and Rare apparently accepted Banjo and Kazooie negotiations, even bringing several people who worked on the games to help).

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

But it does fit with "expand the world of Smash".

Was that a more accurate translation?

 

[Pokelego999]

So I've been away for a while, who are some of the front-runners for 3rd party DLC options?

I'd say right now, a puyo puyo rep

 

[GoodGrief741]

This is how Smash has literally always been and I don't understand how you're surprised this is what it is. It is, and always has been, a Nintendo advertising tool built to pull people in with new IPs to potentially kickstart their love for other Nintendo IPs and also sale as an individual product. When your game sales over 15 million copies in less than a year, you have the potential to appeal to lots of fan bases and make them happy with character inclusions, and you also get better word of mouth as a bigger and more adventurous crossover which directly and positively impacts the goals of Smash already has of individual sales and promotions. Yes, it's made with lots of love and passion and attention to detail, but Smash has always been a promotional vehicle.

There is, however, a difference between "Promoting Nintendo's characters by showing off the sheer variety and quantity of them" and "Promoting Nintendo's characters by having them stand next to some other character in a bid to grab that other character's fans' attention". In one you're celebrating them, in the other you're standing them on the shoulders of others, as if they had no worth by themselves.

 

[zferolie]

So it sounds like, if sakurai can get his way, we could be seeing a lot of dlc over the years

And not just third parties. He never says just 3rd parties. He just says new fighters, which can mean anything

 

[MainJPW]

Was that a more accurate translation?

From what Push said a couple of days ago it seems that way.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Garteam]

I hate to burst your bubble but Sakurai's latest column implies it'll still be new 3rd party franchises.

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1171720134198624256

This doesn't necessarily mean that third parties are guaranteed for the most Fighter's Pass characters. Collaborating with studios could still refer to working with Nintendo's internal studios or possibly even studios such as Game Freak or Intelligent Systems for characters from Sword and Shield/Three Houses.

Personally, I do hope we see some Nintendo characters in this next wave. It's really cool to see new franchises join Smash, but there's still so many fun ideas from franchises still in Smash that it would be a little disappointing to see characters like Bandana Dee or Dixie get the shelf solely because they couldn't provide that "crossover factor" we've seen so far. Plus, a lot of the punch that third parties once had has kind of been lost. Maybe a little break from third parties could bring that feeling back?

 

[Calamitas]

There is, however, a difference between "Promoting Nintendo's characters by showing off the sheer variety and quantity of them" and "Promoting Nintendo's characters by having them stand next to some other character in a bid to grab that other character's fans' attention". In one you're celebrating them, in the other you're standing them on the shoulders of others, as if they had no worth by themselves.

Oh yeah. With how people here talk about Nintendo characters, you'd honestly get the impression that Smash shouldn't have gotten this far as primarily a Nintendo crossover. And that Ultimate should be turned into some kind of extreme third party series melting pot that just needs to appeal to everyone who ever played a video game, regardless of where in the world you're from, and what genres of video games they otherwise enjoy.

 

[Nekoo]

(see how Cloud almost didn't get in Ultimate's base roster compared to how easy Microsoft and Rare apparently accepted Banjo and Kazooie negotiations, even bringing several people who worked on the games to help).

BZZZZT-
That's a lie and I don't know who the hell keep spreading this. Game Data show that Cloud was added VERY early in Ultimate Development, and with how Sakurai said, and repeated today, that he worked on Smash 4/4DLC and Ultimate back to back, and how the Smash 4 DLC was choosen the exact same time as Ultimate Project Plan, I'm 100% sure Cloud's negociation in Smash 4 also went for Ultimate too.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

There is, however, a difference between "Promoting Nintendo's characters by showing off the sheer variety and quantity of them" and "Promoting Nintendo's characters by having them stand next to some other character in a bid to grab that other character's fans' attention". In one you're celebrating them, in the other you're standing them on the shoulders of others, as if they had no worth by themselves.

I mean, we've just moved on to celebrating all of gaming as opposed to just Nintendo. The value of the Nintendo characters is still there and there's very little practical difference between the two forms of promotion, just one potentially reaches more people and results in strengthening those Nintendo characters and IPs by building new fans. There's plenty of benefit in doing this for Nintendo's IPs and the health of the overall company since Smash is already a reflection of Nintendo as a whole. Like I've mentioned before, we're already at the point of diminishing returns for a great deal of first party options, so this just makes sense as overall more of a transition.

It's less of these characters "have no worth by themselves" and more of, "these characters have taken us as far as we can go with Smash." Their value is still present and has been used for ages in a variety of ways, now you can turn to third party all-stars to benefit basically every single part of Smash, Nintendo IPs, and the individual success of Smash as a franchise and game. I don't see how this is problematic.

Oh yeah. With how people here talk about Nintendo characters, you'd honestly get the impression that Smash shouldn't have gotten this far as primarily a Nintendo crossover. And that Ultimate should be turned into some kind of extreme third party series melting pot that just needs to appeal to everyone who ever played a video game, regardless of where in the world you're from, and what genres of video games they otherwise enjoy.

But it didn't really get this far as just primarily being a Nintendo crossover. Brawl, Smash 4, and Ultimate all owe part of their success and claims to the best selling Smash titles on third parties at least in some part. It would have been successful without them, but it's certainly more successful for them as well. It's not that it needs to "appeal to everyone who has ever played a video game," but rather that it's literally the only entity in existence with the possibility to achieve something like that. It can achieve something close to that and retain the majority of its fans and build upon its representation of all of gaming.

 

[Pokelego999]

So it sounds like, if sakurai can get his way, we could be seeing a lot of dlc over the years

And not just third parties. He never says just 3rd parties. He just says new fighters, which can mean anything

My goodness

 

[shinhed-echi]

I’m glad that I’m basically done wishlisting.

There’s only ONE more character that I desperately want, but since I got I don’t NEED it that much (mostly because I’ve already accepted the fact that it’s not happening).

Mike Jones from StarTropics. It’s the character I wanted since I first played smash 20 years ago.

Other than that... I want more Squad-Strike-like modes.
- Squad All-Star Mode
- Squad Smash Run (or just smash Run)
- Squad Strike tournament mode.

But mostly Smash Run. Man how I miss it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I mean, we've just moved on to celebrating all of gaming as opposed to just Nintendo. The value of the Nintendo characters is still there and there's very little practical difference between the two forms of promotion, just one potentially reaches more people and results in strengthening those Nintendo characters and IPs by building new fans. There's plenty of benefit in doing this for Nintendo's IPs and the health of the overall company since Smash is already a reflection of Nintendo as a whole. Like I've mentioned before, we're already at the point of diminishing returns for a great deal of first party options, so this just makes sense as overall more of a transition.

It's less of these characters "have no worth by themselves" and more of, "these characters have taken us as far as we can go with Smash." Their value is still present and has been used for ages in a variety of ways, now you can turn to third party all-stars to benefit basically every single part of Smash, Nintendo IPs, and the individual success of Smash as a franchise and game. I don't see how this is problematic.

I guess my problem is that it feels like Nintendo finds less and less worth in their own characters. And as someone who became a fan of Smash because of all the Nintendo, it's alienating. I'm wondering how far it'll go before I fall out of love with one of my favorite series, and that's just kinda sad.

 

[RouffWestie]

Currently 100% expecting Arle Nadja and a FE3H newcomer. Arle has been highly requested in Japan for a long time, and SEGA has been suddenly pushing Puyo Puyo in the West ever since the Swtich released. That's too out of the ordinary for something not to be up. FE3H was successful, and it's Fire Emblem so yeah.
Doomguy, and a Granblue Fantasy newcomer have better odds than most other characters.
Doomslayer is likely in because the franchise is popular in the US, it laid the groundwork for the genre, and based on Sakurai acknowledging John Carmack as the father of FPS games, even if he's just talking about games casually, he's making it pretty obvious that he would take any opportunity to get Doom represented in Smash.
Granblue Fantasy is owned by a company that Nintendo has stock in, it's huge in Japan, likely the only mobile game Nintendo would choose for representation in Smash. Expanding Smash to reach mobile gaming audiences seems like something they'd do, and Spirits mode seems to derive much of its mechanics from mobile RPGs like Granblue Fantasy. Phrases like, "more collaboration," "expanding the world of Smash," just scream we're adding a newcomer bringing mobile game representation to Smash to me.
Geno is a dark-horse candidate. Maybe he wasn't high-priority enough to make the base roster, or the fighter's pass, so they threw his spirit in as a consolation prize. But now we've got more DLC on the way, meaning they possibly had an opportunity to expand his representation. Considering he is third-party, one of the remaining current long-time requests still not in, and was considered for earlier rosters, he may have a shot. The question is, will they just bring him back as a Mii Costume, or a fully-playable character?

 

[Deleted member]

If I remember correctly, the last non-dlc character who got chosen for Ultimate wasn't Cloud, but funny enough Incineroar.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm just hoping it means some more left field picks like idk, Miriam Bloodstained

Look, I love that game. But I want to see that that's actually going to be a series before we start throwing them in Smash.

The precedent is there of course, but I'm really burnt out on Pokemon in Smash, and this is coming from someone who's been playing Pokemon for 15+ years. Just adding a new starter from each generation is so boring to me seeing as we got interesting additions like Mewtwo, Trainer, and Lucario previously. The speculation for a Gen 7 rep left me especially disinterested because despite the appeal Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu just didn't work for me, and even Incineroar had me groaning for a few weeks

That should have ended at 3, with Charizard, Greninja and Decidueye. But they had to go and **** that up.

So what genre that Nintendo don't really dabble in would people like to see in Smash?

Beat em ups!

Bring me that Kunio!

It looks like Sakurai doesn't have any plans on anything outside of Ultimate since it mentioned he isn't working on another game or taking any breaks currently, so it may be possible that those 16 placeholders will get filled in for the next few years to come.

Personally, I hope Smash DLC continues to get made for the entire generation and doesn't stop till the next console drops.

Or...maybe not even then. Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe on the Super Switch!

I disagree lol. I hope the rest of the DLC is 100% retro Japanese characters that leave everyone under 25 seething.

I like this guy.

Well if they are going to have an Indie pick she would make the most sense.

I still think it's ridiculous calling Shantae an indie pick when WayForward is in no way an indie developer. They've been making games forever, have a large staff, and have worked on some of gaming's most iconic franchises and made games based on huge licenses.

It's as if people think any studio that isn't AAA is automatically indie...

Yeah, third parties seem to be the future. First Party characters from probably done. Maybe they'll add newer Switch characters in the future, but I full expect newcomers, like the ones in the picture below.

Mmm, that's a good list. I like at least 12 of those characters.

 

[merchantofsalt]

But mostly Smash Run. Man how I miss it.

Smash Run was so good. I would trade all remaining DLC for a sort of roguelike co-op Smash Run with boss fights.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Look, I love that game. But I want to see that that's actually going to be a series before we start throwing them in Smash.

That should have ended at 3, with Charizard, Greninja and Decidueye. But they had to go and **** that up.

Beat em ups!

Bring me that Kunio!

Personally, I hope Smash DLC continues to get made for the entire generation and doesn't stop till the next console drops.

Or...maybe not even then. Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe on the Super Switch!

I like this guy.

I still think it's ridiculous calling Shantae an indie pick when WayForward is in no way an indie developer. They've been making games forever, have a large staff, and have worked on some of gaming's most iconic franchises and made games based on huge licenses.

It's as if people think any studio that isn't AAA is automatically indie...

Mmm, that's a good list. I like at least 12 of those characters.

Well what do you know, Bloodstained IS a series as it has 2 games!

Currently 100% expecting Arle Nadja and a FE3H newcomer. Arle has been highly requested in Japan for a long time, and SEGA has been suddenly pushing Puyo Puyo in the West ever since the Swtich released. That's too out of the ordinary for something not to be up. FE3H was successful, and it's Fire Emblem so yeah.
Doomguy, and a Granblue Fantasy newcomer have better odds than most other characters.
Doomslayer is likely in because the franchise is popular in the US, it laid the groundwork for the genre, and based on Sakurai acknowledging John Carmack as the father of FPS games, even if he's just talking about games casually, he's making it pretty obvious that he would take any opportunity to get Doom represented in Smash.
Granblue Fantasy is owned by a company that Nintendo has stock in, it's huge in Japan, likely the only mobile game Nintendo would choose for representation in Smash. Expanding Smash to reach mobile gaming audiences seems like something they'd do, and Spirits mode seems to derive much of its mechanics from mobile RPGs like Granblue Fantasy. Phrases like, "more collaboration," "expanding the world of Smash," just scream we're adding a newcomer bringing mobile game representation to Smash to me.
Geno is a dark-horse candidate. Maybe he wasn't high-priority enough to make the base roster, or the fighter's pass, so they threw his spirit in as a consolation prize. But now we've got more DLC on the way, meaning they possibly had an opportunity to expand his representation. Considering he is third-party, one of the remaining current long-time requests still not in, and was considered for earlier rosters, he may have a shot. The question is, will they just bring him back as a Mii Costume, or a fully-playable character?

How is Geno a darkhorse pick if most people are expecting him

 

[Nquoid]

I guess my problem is that it feels like Nintendo finds less and less worth in their own characters. And as someone who became a fan of Smash because of all the Nintendo, it's alienating. I'm wondering how far it'll go before I fall out of love with one of my favorite series, and that's just kinda sad.

I wonder how much of this is exacerbated by the fact that Ultimate had a shorter dev cycle than previous Smash's. Because only Splatoon had time to prove that it had legs, the rest of the additions were focused on fulfilling long held wants and adding characters from ever green franchises like Fire Emblem, Pokemon and Animal Crossing.

If the game cooked for another year, I'm sure a lot more 1st party requests would have been fulfilled and maybe stuff like Spring Man and Rex.

But I have to imagine Nintendo saw the metrics for the Smash 4 DLC and noted that Cloud, Bayonetta and Ryu sold better than Corrin. Hence the hard pivot into new franchises. If Splatoon hadn't made it into the base game, I'd wager that's the kind of franchise that would make financial sense to add to a pass. As much as I love Dixie and Porky, they're the fourth and third reps for franchises, immediately making them less "exciting"

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well what do you know, Bloodstained IS a series as it has 2 games!

Oh ****, that's right.

Mike Jones from StarTropics. It’s the character I wanted since I first played smash 20 years ago.

It's kinda insulting that StarTropics doesn't even have any Spirits. I think it might be the only multi-game Nintendo series that doesn't have any.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I guess my problem is that it feels like Nintendo finds less and less worth in their own characters. And as someone who became a fan of Smash because of all the Nintendo, it's alienating. I'm wondering how far it'll go before I fall out of love with one of my favorite series, and that's just kinda sad.

I mean, they're only "finding less worth in their own characters" in the Smash context because so many of them are already in and people are supporting first parties less and less in favor of third parties. They're kind of just responding to the market of Smash fans to a certain degree and also because their IPs are inherently less valuable the more niche and obscure you go. Nintendo has always done this as a company. Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon are the titans that get all the attention and always will, and the lesser series that don't perform well don't get as many projects greenlit. And the ones that don't perform at all well get shelved. It's amazing just how much of Nintendo is already covered in Smash. As far as IPs are concerned, you really only have Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, Advance Wars, Sin and Punishment, and Chibi-Robo left with a handful of one-offs not in the game. They don't exactly scream priority to Nintendo to begin with and only one of those franchises has a strong push from a fan perspective for Smash with Isaac having a number of supporters. I promise you that Nintendo will see value in their own characters if people actually prove there's a strong enough base for them, but on average there just aren't the same unifying presences in first party speculation like King K. Rool and Ridley, and that does matter to Nintendo.

I don't see why you have to fall out of love with the Smash just because it focuses on other games. Explore those world, those games, and those companies. We live in a beautiful time of having far too many gaming IPs to possibly consume, so there's just so many possibilities beyond Nintendo (many of which actually fit Nintendo's approach to games as well) to experience and fall in love with. Everything you loved is still there and the best it has ever been (including 60+ Nintendo characters). Like yes, the third party focus is likely to continue, but that doesn't mean you won't see other Nintendo characters show up in some capacity. It's unlikely to all be third party and you can have an option like Geno that is just a third party Mario character, or someone like Ryu Hayabusa who is also just a NES character for all intensive purposes.