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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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EricTheGamerman

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I wonder what the reaction would be if Season 2 was basically just Nintendo characters from the Switch era? Such as

Rex/Pyra

Spring Man

Akira Howard

Byleth

Pokemon from Sword and Shield
Absolute ****ing disappointment. I'm fine with a couple of Nintendo characters getting in, but at this point, the last thing I want is a hard slide back to the days of less interesting and less ambitious Smash. Especially when none of these characters specifically interest me from a Nintendo side of things, except for Rex/Pyra as a specific request that some people want. I'd probably end up buying them though since I need a complete Smash in my life... but that's how you **** up any momentum for future DLC right there.
 

Cutie Gwen

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In regards to a possible third SE rep it all comes down to either Sora or Geno in my opinion. For the life of me I can't decide which one is likelier than the other, because both characters are held back by limitations beyond just SE. Geno has his problems with relevancy and being dormant for so long, and Sora has problems of being owned by Disney. Banjo getting in proved that fan demand can definitely triumph over relevancy even if you're owned by another company, so Geno could very well get in if SE actually allows it. Likewise, as long as Disney doesn't act completely dumb or greedy then Sora could get in.

I have no horse in this race so I care not for who gets in, but I'm curious in the arguments that you all can make for these two. Which one do you think is likelier to make it in the second wave of DLC?
At the same time, if Geno could happen, he would have as we know Sakurai tried getting him in since Brawl
I wonder what the reaction would be if Season 2 was basically just Nintendo characters from the Switch era? Such as

Rex/Pyra

Spring Man

Akira Howard

Byleth

Pokemon from Sword and Shield
One awful pick, one that could be decent, one that could be cool if implemented right, a disappointing yet cool choice and something we literally will not know about
 

Nemuresu

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I wonder what the reaction would be if Season 2 was basically just Nintendo characters from the Switch era? Such as

Rex/Pyra

Spring Man

Akira Howard

Byleth

Pokemon from Sword and Shield
I'm willing to let go of half of these guys. Rex because people want him, and Spring Man and Akira because they're new IPs that'd bring tons of content to Smash.

That said, I'd rather get more third-party characters. Compare the reactions these guys could trigger with the ones that characters like Geno, Sora or Dante could, and the latter ones would win on the long run
 

YoshiandToad

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I wonder what the reaction would be if Season 2 was basically just Nintendo characters from the Switch era? Such as

Rex/Pyra

Spring Man

Akira Howard

Byleth

Pokemon from Sword and Shield
I can tell you now it'd be people who called first parties boring retroactively claiming "Of course these characters deserved to get in and make total sense. Although this is a crossover game it's first and foremost a Nintendo game that celebrates Nintendo, so of course Nintendo should get a section for themselves"

Personally I'd be all for it though. Three Houses is a mega success and Astral Chain is currently #1 in my countries charts. Both solid games.
 

krokotopia101

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How likely atp are 1st party characters from an existing franchise to appear as fighters now? Fan demands like Waluigi (still doubtful), Dixie Kong, Waddle Dee, Porky and so on?
 

Animegamingnerd

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Absolute ****ing disappointment. I'm fine with a couple of Nintendo characters getting in, but at this point, the last thing I want is a hard slide back to the days of less interesting and less ambitious Smash. Especially when none of these characters specifically interest me from a Nintendo side of things, except for Rex/Pyra as a specific request that some people want. I'd probably end up buying them though since I need a complete Smash in my life... but that's how you **** up any momentum for future DLC right there.
I'm just gonna say that we're likely gonna have to go back to these days at some point, Sakurai has said its very unlikely they will be able to pull off something like Ultimate again and its not like Nintendo is gonna stop making new characters, we already got a few from the Switch era like Rex, Spring Man, and Akira that would have a really cool moveset if put into Smash.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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"Hurr-durr how dare you refute my points, I'll take this as a personal attack". Chill.


Again, missing the entire point, just because 2 games are from the same franchise doesn't mean the tone of both games has to be exactly the same. Heck, they're not even sequels, they just so happen to share some elements as most JRPGs do.


Nice cherry picking. If you want to be that way, I could go and say that that only the very beginning of the game is the only part where the tone is more lighthearted but you do you. Now, will we judge the entire game because of a few "flaws" some people might find in the tone in the earlier parts of the game or should we judge it as a whole? The answer is quite obvious if you ask me. It's still subjective enough to not be considered a glaring issue for the game's overall quality.


Irrelevant, nothing wrong with the designs.


Except, nowhere in the game we see such things? Inb4 "M-muh generic hotspring scene" where you don't see absolutely anything in the slightest. Furthermore completely misses the point, due to cultural differences, that those kind of places are made for trust and bonding between friends, coworkers and the like not for sex appeal. The rest of the game doesn't have any *** shots or focus on boobies that the first game didn't have either, and yet, there's nothing bad about it if there were some.


I don't really know what you're talking about, since from Malos' fight to Mythra's awakening we have, Nia, Dromarch, Tora, Poppi, Morag and Brigid all introduced and given backstories and development, alongside foreshadowing of Pyra's true power origins as we progressively learn what exactly are the Blade race. Comparatively, as you stated, nothing happens between mechon attack and prison island, which takes anywhere from 10-30 hours. Why should anyone have to slog through that?

Wait! Hold on, except all you just said are blatant lies sugarcoated and buzzwords like development and backstories without a single piece of evidence to back it up to add "depth" to your argument with some minor events like I just did (if it wasn't obvious enough). Excuse me, in what world did we get backstories or character development for Sharla, Melia, Riki as early as prison island, did you even play the game?



All Xenoblade games dwindle between realism and anime features, as you can tell it doesn't look neither like games like the witcher nor Tales of, and yes, this includes XC2.


Now you're literally comparing two completely unrelated stories with one another, claiming one is better than the other because it appeals to a wider more mainstream audience and bashing one because it's tropey while completely ignoring and giving more weight to its flaws than its strengths (again, as you did with Xenoblade which tells me that's how you usually discuss about topics) and you actually feel proud about that whole sentence. Ok then.

Why don't you just say you dislike japanese looking games from japanese companies and we can end this nonsense you're spouting quicker? Which strikes me as odd since you have Sora of all people as your avatar, one of the most weeb looking japanese games conceived.
Wowee. You're really passionate about XC2, huh?

The overall tone of your post is combative, and in your last post you literally called Gwen and I's opinion dumb. You're not refuting my points so much as you're fighting against them like I burned down your house, stole your wife, and took the kids. It's a video game. Chill out man.
Regardless of whether you like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 or not, it's quite clear that Sakurai adores the game and he was very regretful that he couldn't add Rex in the base roster. If another Xenoblade character is to be added in wave 2 of DLC it will no doubt be Rex, no questions about it.
That's what it comes down to. Despite my own feelings about XC2, the fact of the matter is that Xenoblade is now one of Nintendo's most prominent series (to the point where it's now closing out Directs), and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is not only the second most notable game in the series after the first, but also an important title for the Nintendo Switch. Rex & Pyra are the second most likely first party characters, only after Waluigi.
In regards to a possible third SE rep it all comes down to either Sora or Geno in my opinion. For the life of me I can't decide which one is likelier than the other, because both characters are held back by limitations beyond just SE. Geno has his problems with relevancy and being dormant for so long, and Sora has problems of being owned by Disney. Banjo getting in proved that fan demand can definitely triumph over relevancy even if you're owned by another company, so Geno could very well get in if SE actually allows it. Likewise, as long as Disney doesn't act completely dumb or greedy then Sora could get in.

I have no horse in this race so I care not for who gets in, but I'm curious in the arguments that you all can make for these two. Which one do you think is likelier to make it in the second wave of DLC?
I don't even think they're in competition with one another since they have drastically different processes to get in. Geno has Square Enix involved in every step, whereas Sora only needs a check from Normura before Sakurai works with Disney on him.

I personally think Geno is more likely, but if Nintendo is really backing this next wave of DLC, Sora has a real chance.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Porky isn't really a fan demand as much as it is people acting like he's the only spiritless Nintendo character.

Anyway, I'd wait to see what goes down with FP2. They want to target different demographics, and apparently "people who aren't narrow minded about more Nintendo" is still a demographic they need to cover.
 

Impa4Smash

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I wonder what the reaction would be if Season 2 was basically just Nintendo characters from the Switch era? Such as

Rex/Pyra

Spring Man

Akira Howard

Byleth

Pokemon from Sword and Shield
I would be pretty bummed, not gonna lie. Byleth would be hype, the others not so much.

Although I have yet to play Astral Chain.
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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At the same time, if Geno could happen, he would have as we know Sakurai tried getting him in since Brawl
The thing about Geno is that I feel it always came down to, "yeah, Geno would be cool, but you know who'd be cooler?" Both Cloud and Hero are from active, popular series, and probably had equal or more support than Geno as a whole. Geno was just a lesser priority, especially since Sakurai could appeal to the core, Western fanbase using other characters like Little Mac, Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo.

Now that Geno has seen his major barriers to entry removed, and he is probably the most popular character from a core fanbase perspective, I think he's pretty likely now.
I wonder what the reaction would be if Season 2 was basically just Nintendo characters from the Switch era? Such as

Rex/Pyra

Spring Man

Akira Howard

Byleth

Pokemon from Sword and Shield
Pretty damn disappointing.

Like, I'm okay with Rex/Pyra & Byleth, and I'd be hyped for Akira, but Spring Man and Gen 8 'Mon are lame picks more suited for the base roster. The lack of third parties is even more disappointing since we just got five of them, and we'd be missing out on iconic and popular characters like Crash, Doomguy, Ryu, the many Capcom and Namco series still unrepresented, Sora, Geno, etc.
 
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Animegamingnerd

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Porky isn't really a fan demand as much as it is people acting like he's the only spiritless Nintendo character.

Anyway, I'd wait to see what goes down with FP2. They want to target different demographics, and apparently "people who aren't narrow minded about more Nintendo" is still a demographic they need to cover.
I honestly never really saw any demand for Porky until he didn't have a Spirit in Ultimate, which I believe to an honest to god accidental oversight on the development team's end.
 

Nekoo

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I feel so bad for Sora supporters.
He's about as likely as Wreck-It Ralph.
Ralph technically first appeared in a promotional video game for the movie, so he's technically a video game character.
But he's a Disney property first and foremost.
Sora is in the exact same boat.

I'll happily admit I'm wrong if the time ever comes. After all, I counted Banjo out for Smash 4 for being a Microsoft property, but then Phil Spencer spoke out.
But until Disney speaks out similarly, I see Sora as completely impossible.
I know this is a bait made for me.
This like, the golden bait to get me to write a big ass post.

But I won't.

I'll just say that Disney did speak about Sora before Smash Ultimate even had that name.
Disney Japan (aka probably the Disney they will talk to, to break language barrier) VP said they would be on Board with Sora in smash if Nintendo ever comes to them.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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In regards to a possible third SE rep it all comes down to either Sora or Geno in my opinion. For the life of me I can't decide which one is likelier than the other, because both characters are held back by limitations beyond just SE. Geno has his problems with relevancy and being dormant for so long, and Sora has problems of being owned by Disney. Banjo getting in proved that fan demand can definitely triumph over relevancy even if you're owned by another company, so Geno could very well get in if SE actually allows it. Likewise, as long as Disney doesn't act completely dumb or greedy then Sora could get in.

I have no horse in this race so I care not for who gets in, but I'm curious in the arguments that you all can make for these two. Which one do you think is likelier to make it in the second wave of DLC?
Or sakurai could pull a fast one and give us somebody like Lara Croft

Kinda feel like she gets too lost in the shuffle of discussion despite being a very notable Square Enix owned character
 
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EricTheGamerman

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I'm just gonna say that we're likely gonna have to go back to these days at some point, Sakurai has said its very unlikely they will be able to pull off something like Ultimate again and its not like Nintendo is gonna stop making new characters, we already got a few from the Switch era like Rex, Spring Man, and Akira that would have a really cool moveset if put into Smash.
Oh, I'm aware that Smash is headed that direction post Ultimate, and I'm all the less interested in what it can bring to the table because of that. If this is the only opportunity to get all these huge IPs from a wide variety of developers and third parties that will never be represented together again though, more Nintendo IPs seem much more like a waste. Those Nintendo IPs will always be on the table for future games or content since they inherently belong to Nintendo, third party IPs are not. It's a take the opportunity while you can sort of mentality since it's basically once in a lifetime. I don't know if "cool movesets" of first party IPs cut it anymore in the era where we have practically all third parties open to us and Sakurai can make a moveset out of anyone on the field.

An opportunity to expand the "copyright crossover" with another third party character decided against in favor of say another Fire Emblem character seems like a huge missed opportunity to me at this point.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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I know this is a bait made for me.
This like, the golden bait to get me to write a big *** post.

But I won't.

I'll just say that Disney did speak about Sora before Smash Ultimate even had that name.
Disney Japan (aka probably the Disney they will talk to, to break language barrier) VP said they would be on Board with Sora in smash if Nintendo ever comes to them.
Don't worry Nekoo I'm planning out a big ol' post myself expect it in the next month or so since I'm a busy college student.

Sora has a real chance though.
 

BlueMonk

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What about Crono for another Square character? Sakurai seems to like Chrono Trigger, I think he has a shot.
 

Nekoo

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Or sakurai could pull a fast one and give us somebody like Lara Croft
Kinda feel like she gets too lost in the shuffle of discussion despite being a very notable Square Enix character
The issue with Lara Croft, is, in my eyes, the same as Hitman.
Her licence get thrown around, to multiple devs, stuff ,there and there, and it's hard to keep track to "what can only be used from the movies" licence, "what can be used from the past games" licence and "What can be used from now on."
I'm sure there is lowkey some licencing hell with the past games references if Sakurai ever try to use the "original Lara" but I don't think there would be any issue if they use 2016 Lara, which is 100% Square-Enix property.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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The issue with Lara Croft, is, in my eyes, the same as Hitman.
Her licence get thrown around, to multiple devs, stuff ,there and there, and it's hard to keep track to "what can only be used from the movies" licence, "what can be used from the past games" licence and "What can be used from now on."
I'm sure there is lowkey some licencing hell with the past games references if Sakurai ever try to use the "original Lara" but I don't think there would be any issue if they use 2016 Lara, which is 100% Square-Enix property.
Hmmmm... that's definitely something to note indeed. Especially assuming Sakurai would probably want to go for the more iconic OG Lara design compared to Square Enix's...

Wasn't aware of the potential licensing problems involved. Thanks for clearing things up.
 
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GoodGrief741

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I don't know what discussion I prefer less, the one about Xenoblade 2's quality or the too-spoilery-for-my-taste argument about Edelgard.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I honestly never really saw any demand for Porky until he didn't have a Spirit in Ultimate, which I believe to an honest to god accidental oversight on the development team's end.
Here's the thing though it ISN'T an oversight. The Absolutely Safe Capsule has a Spirit. Porky traps himself in there and that means his Spirit never directly got claimed. A reference to what ultimately became of Porky and what will happen for the rest of the franchise if it somehow doesn't stay dead.

Yet some people take that as proof he's in
I can tell you now it'd be people who called first parties boring retroactively claiming "Of course these characters deserved to get in and make total sense. Although this is a crossover game it's first and foremost a Nintendo game that celebrates Nintendo, so of course Nintendo should get a section for themselves"

Personally I'd be all for it though. Three Houses is a mega success and Astral Chain is currently #1 in my countries charts. Both solid games.
You're saying that people who feel first parties are less exciting would do a 180? I kinda doubt that but ok, especially as the options there include Fire Emblem and Pokemon, franchises which people have become more vocal about "Can we get a different franchise please?" But you do you
 

TheCJBrine

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I honestly never really saw any demand for Porky until he didn't have a Spirit in Ultimate, which I believe to an honest to god accidental oversight on the development team's end.
He had demand before spirits were shown :c

And I wouldn’t say the fanmade stuff like the moveset comic is just there because they saw he had no spirit; no, they like and want him.
 

Cutie Gwen

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What about Crono for another Square character? Sakurai seems to like Chrono Trigger, I think he has a shot.
*remembers 12 minute videos about Sakurai tweeting about Chrono Trigger winning an award for best video game in the Heisei era*

One thing I can imagine for Crono is that his specials would summon a party member to enhance the specials, but it's be like Captain Ginyu in DBFZ, a rotation. Use any special, Crono's on his own, use a special again, Marle changes the move's properties, then Lucca, etc
 

BlueMonk

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Here's the thing though it ISN'T an oversight. The Absolutely Safe Capsule has a Spirit. Porky traps himself in there and that means his Spirit never directly got claimed. A reference to what ultimately became of Porky and what will happen for the rest of the franchise if it somehow doesn't stay dead.

Yet some people take that as proof he's in
I don't think Porky's in, but I feel like this is a weak argument. WoL clearly doesn't care about lore, whether that lore be its own or from the series the spirits are coming from. I think its more likely they just forgot about Porky rather than his absence being a reference to the Absolutely Safe Capsule
 

Cutie Gwen

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I don't think Porky's in, but I feel like this is a weak argument. WoL clearly doesn't care about lore, whether that lore be its own or from the series the spirits are coming from. I think its more likely they just forgot about Porky rather than his absence being a reference to the Absolutely Safe Capsule
Considering the amount of care put into references in Spirits, including Shanoa's spirit being based on an optional Glyph from her game that uses a one off gimmick that is used nowhere else in Order of Ecclesia, I don't buy the idea that the people in charge of the Spirits weren't aware of the ASCapsule's history and that they couldn't play around it
 

TheCJBrine

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I don't think Porky's in, but I feel like this is a weak argument. WoL clearly doesn't care about lore, whether that lore be its own or from the series the spirits are coming from. I think its more likely they just forgot about Porky rather than his absence being a reference to the Absolutely Safe Capsule
Plus, they could’ve used his EarthBound artwork as a spirit for him, if not his Mother 3 sprite. The ASC could be a reference since its online icon is zoomed in on the window, but the icon and the spirit use the empty variant of the ASC (the window is different) and there’s no references to Porky in the spirit’s summon requirements.

It also sucks that Porky himself isn’t in the game at all, and the ASC didn’t stop them from making him a boss in Brawl or a trophy in Smash 4.


Though I don’t really know why we’re arguing over spirits when they were definitely chosen before Season 2 DLC was planned.
 
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MorbidMiraj

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Ah! Chrono! When I put Sora down for my list, I had this feeling I was forgetting somebody that was more recently rumored. I think Chrono would be awesome. Plus all the Toriyama fans would get a character in there that's not Goku.
 

RouffWestie

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Ehhh I was happier to see Ridley, King K. Rool, Daisy even as a clone of Peach, and a generic Mario enemy than 3/5 DLC characters they announced so far, so I'm definitely not in the camp that third parties are inherently more valuable additions to Smash Bros. just by virtue of being made by a different company.
 

-crump-

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I have no problem with adding more Nintendo characters, but if the rest of the DLC are just characters from recent Switch games I’d be extremely underwhemed and disappointed. Filling the game with cheap advertising for hot new games would devalue the entire roster and I sincerely hope they keep it to a minimum.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Ah! Chrono! When I put Sora down for my list, I had this feeling I was forgetting somebody that was more recently rumored. I think Chrono would be awesome. Plus all the Toriyama fans would get a character in there that's not Goku.
Except Chrono hasn't been recently rumored? Outside of some hearsay during the SE speculation era no one's heard anything about him.
Ehhh I was happier to see Ridley, King K. Rool, Daisy even as a clone of Peach, and a generic Mario enemy than 3/5 DLC characters they announced so far, so I'm definitely not in the camp that third parties are inherently more valuable additions to Smash Bros. just by virtue of being made by a different company.
You aren't, but a whole lot of other people are.
 

toonito

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This is my list of 3rd party characters for the Fighter Pass/DLC:

Bethesda
Doom Slayer (Doom)
Dragonborn (Skyrim)

SNK
Terry Bogard (Fatal Fury, 74)
Kyo Kusanagi (King of Fighters)
Nakoruru (Samurai Showdown)

Activision
Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
Tracer (Overwatch)

Koei Tecmo
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Kasumi (Dead or Alive)

Level 5
Jibanyan (Yo-Kai Watch)
Professor Layton (Professor Layton)

Ubisoft
Ezio Auditore (Assassin's Creed)
Rayman (Rayman)

Capcom
Jill Valentine or Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil)
Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter)
Dante (Devil May Cry)
Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)

Namco
Heihachi, Jin, or Kazuya Mishima (Tekken)
Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
Siegfried/Nightmare (Soul Edge/Calibur)
Solaire or Chosen Undead (Dark Souls)

Konami
Frogger (Frogger)



I'm predicting two one of these three: Resident Evil, Ninja Gaiden, and Doom.
Post Direct Thoughts

I stand by my prediction of Resident Evil, Ninja Gaiden, or Doom being the last character in Fighter Pass 1. I've cooled on Doom since my last prediction so for me its a two way race between RE and NG. I'll probably be wrong haha.

If one company per pass is correct then Atlus/SEGA, Square-Enix, Microsoft, and SNK probably won't get another fighter in Fighter Pass 1. Beyond Fighter Pass 1 all bets are off regarding these companies.

Due to Sakurai's announcement of more DLC characters character speculation has widened considerably. I'm still of the mindset that more 3rd parties will continue to enter Smash but 1st party characters may become playable through DLC. We don't know if the next DLC characters will be part of a pass or individual.

It might be possible the fan rules of ATs, Spirits, and Mii Costumes = deconfirmations may be broken due to the development of additional DLC.

If we interpret Sakurai's statement of bringing many new game worlds together in one game then it seems that current franchises may not have new fighters and DLC will continue to bring entirely new franchises to Smash. Keep that in mind. Astral Chain, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (Rex/Pyra), ARMS, Fire Emblem 3 Houses, and Pokemon will be either DLC or base newcomers in the next Smash game.

1st
 
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StormC

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While there's still plenty of Nintendo characters I would like to see, there's very few left that would get the big reactions K. Rool and Ridley had.

If it was between third parties and random advertising characters, I'd pick the former easily.
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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Everyone, may I please have your attention:

Square Enix being stingy is A MYTH
You heard it here folks. Now stop saying it since it's not true.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Everyone, may I please have your attention:

Square Enix being stingy is A MYTH
You heard it here folks. Now stop saying it since it's not true.
i was half expecting Slimes to have a blue raspberry flavor

But yeah this. If anything it was specifically Nobuo Uematsu who was stingy, hence only two FF7 tracks. That may be cause he’s no longer with SE in the first place
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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i was half expecting Slimes to have a blue raspberry flavor

But yeah this. If anything it was specifically Nobuo Uematsu who was stingy, hence only two FF7 tracks. That may be cause he’s no longer with SE in the first place
Also I'm pretty sure SE does a weird thing with FF where they give composers the rights to their own music.

Which is actually the opposite of stingy.
 

pupNapoleon

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Oh, I'm aware that Smash is headed that direction post Ultimate, and I'm all the less interested in what it can bring to the table because of that. If this is the only opportunity to get all these huge IPs from a wide variety of developers and third parties that will never be represented together again though, more Nintendo IPs seem much more like a waste. Those Nintendo IPs will always be on the table for future games or content since they inherently belong to Nintendo, third party IPs are not. It's a take the opportunity while you can sort of mentality since it's basically once in a lifetime. I don't know if "cool movesets" of first party IPs cut it anymore in the era where we have practically all third parties open to us and Sakurai can make a moveset out of anyone on the field.

An opportunity to expand the "copyright crossover" with another third party character decided against in favor of say another Fire Emblem character seems like a huge missed opportunity to me at this point.
I agree with you on all of this.
The one thing I do not think you are considering is that the next smash is unlikely to just continue from the base roster.
The next smash is going to reset. I think its pretty clear at this point that, third parties removed entirely, the roster of Nintendo characters alone is not sustainable in Smash bros. In fact, after the hype of the third parties now, I think we are completely guaranteed a reboot afterward. It is the only possibility after the climax.
 
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