Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Guynamednelson]

How come starters tend to be shill picks?

Greninja and Incineroar were chosen based on what is probably popular, rather than actual verified popularity. It only worked out for Greninja because it actually could take the #1 spot on official favorite Pokemon polls.

 

[Momotsuki]

The funny thing about Piranha Plant is that "firsts" generally bust down the gate for an influx of additional requests in that vein. Look, for example, at the thing we were just talking about, people requesting Eggman and Chun-Li in the face of Sephiroth being the first second original third-party.

But despite being defended as he was, no one is really asking for more generic mooks, are they? Almost like most people don't really want those kind of characters, but will pretty much defend whatever we get regardless.

Which is... either troublingly conformist, or unwaveringly open-minded, depending on who you ask.

What I will say is that if someone's opinion over additions is either always positive or always negative, it hinders their credibility somewhat.

I was joking, haha, I doubt anybody was in fact asking for these characters.

However, I think Piranha Plant was a genuinely good addition because of just how many variations of said generic mook she was able to represent being a single fighter. One of the most important things about a generic mook is that they're going to come in a lot of varieties, and Piranha Plant is able to juggle things derived from so many of these, somehow skirting by the Wahoominati in becoming a Putrid Piranha for her side special, among plenty of other details, of course. Piranha Plant is less about representing a generic enemy and more about representing the generic enemy as a concept, and I think she's excellent on that front. She also happens to be fun to play as. Ledge traps ahoy! And seeing as I feel this way, I don't think we need more mooks. But admittedly I'm not against the concept, I just don't think it's necessary.

I consider myself quite open-minded too, for what it's worth. I'm 1/9 in terms of DLC characters I wanted beforehand, and 8/9 in terms of DLC characters I've been happy with, as it currently stands. But of course, there are things I don't like; the abundance of Fire Emblem... bothers me a little bit, but I'll sleep at night just fine.

Make of it what you will, but beyond the pet peeve I just mentioned... I'm somewhat difficult to disappoint.

 

[Shroob]

I was joking, haha, I doubt anybody was in fact asking for these characters.

However, I think Piranha Plant was a genuinely good addition because of just how many variations of said generic mook she was able to represent being a single fighter. One of the most important things about a generic mook is that they're going to come in a lot of varieties, and Piranha Plant is able to juggle things derived from so many of these, somehow skirting by the Wahoominati in becoming a Putrid Piranha for her side special, among plenty of other details, of course. Piranha Plant is less about representing a generic enemy and more about representing the generic enemy as a concept, and I think she's excellent on that front. She also happens to be fun to play as. Ledge traps ahoy!

I consider myself quite open-minded too, for what it's worth. I'm 1/9 in terms of DLC characters I wanted beforehand, and 7/9 in terms of DLC characters I've been happy with, as it currently stands. But of course, there are things I don't like; the abundance of Fire Emblem... bothers me a little bit, but I'll sleep at night just fine.

....She? I mean I guess Plants have genders, but I'm like, 99.9% sure the joke about the Palutena's Guidance was Viridi, not Plant, considering Viridi came busting in after "Be quiet, she'll hear you."

 

[Momotsuki]

....She? I mean I guess Plants have genders, but I'm like, 99.9% the joke about the Palutena's Guidance was Viridi, not Plant, considering Viridi came busting in after "Be quiet, she'll hear you."

I'm aware it was Viridi being referred to, and derive it merely from headcanon rather than that guidance.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How come starters tend to be shill picks?

Because Pokémon picks tend to be shill picks, and the safest Pokémon to shill with are the starters. I don't think it would have been a stretch to say that Infernape or Empoleon would have been our Brawl newcomer if Lucario didn't appear in games pre-Gen 4, and starred in a movie.

It's also probably not a stretch to say that if Gen 5 was the most relevant generation at the time, then Zoroark would be here instead of Lucario.

 

[Deleted member]

Is a "shill" a character based off heavy promotion/marketing?

Like Character A getting in, mainly because they wanted to promote Character A's game heavily?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[cashregister9]

How come starters tend to be shill picks?

Character I dislike = Shill
Character I like = Not Shill


There are way more criteria for what is considered a shill mainly a character that only seems to have been selected to advertise a brand new product, and since Pokemon releases semi-frequently there tends to be quite a few pokemon added before the waters have been tested with a new generation. But just because a Nintendo character is added does not mean they are a "Shill" pick

Honestly the term "shill pick" is a bit ironic, it is a term used to dismiss advertisements, In a game that is basically a massive advertisement.

 

[Guynamednelson]

there tends to be quite a few pokemon added before the waters have been tested with a new generation

They haven't really been doing that until Smash 4, and I'd rather consider something higher than 2 but lower than 6 "a few".

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I consider myself quite open-minded too, for what it's worth. I'm 1/9 in terms of DLC characters I wanted beforehand, and 8/9 in terms of DLC characters I've been happy with, as it currently stands. But of course, there are things I don't like; the abundance of Fire Emblem... bothers me a little bit, but I'll sleep at night just fine.

I'm that way too I'm 0/9 on DLC characters I've wanted beforehand, and Min Min's reveal actually managed to disappoint me (stupid guessing game), but I like playing all of them just fine. Banjo & Kazooie are kinda weird though...

Honestly I don't really care who comes next, I just like speculating, likely in no small part to the conversation.

 

[Momotsuki]

Character I dislike = Shill
Character I like = Not Shill

I like Incineroar. Incineroar was a shill pick, and on that particular front is a disappointment.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

There were people unironically thinking Poochy was a lock because there were no non-yarn spirits of him. That's as close as you'll get.

Haven't we yet to get an old first-party character that didn't get a spirit? Maybe there's a chance for one of them!

...Porky. It would probably be Porky.

 

[Shroob]

I'm that way too I'm 0/9 on DLC characters I've wanted beforehand, and Min Min's reveal actually managed to disappoint me (stupid guessing game), but I like playing all of them just fine. Banjo & Kazooie are kinda weird though...

Honestly I don't really care who comes next, I just like speculating, likely in no small part to the conversation.

Pretty much.

I'm ****ing terrible at Smash, my main fun comes from these hype cycles.

 

[Slime Master]

no one is really asking for more generic mooks, are they?

Do I count?

 

[Aerospherology]

I was joking, haha, I doubt anybody was in fact asking for these characters.

However, I think Piranha Plant was a genuinely good addition because of just how many variations of said generic mook she was able to represent being a single fighter. One of the most important things about a generic mook is that they're going to come in a lot of varieties, and Piranha Plant is able to juggle things derived from so many of these, somehow skirting by the Wahoominati in becoming a Putrid Piranha for her side special, among plenty of other details, of course. Piranha Plant is less about representing a generic enemy and more about representing the generic enemy as a concept, and I think she's excellent on that front. She also happens to be fun to play as. Ledge traps ahoy! And seeing as I feel this way, I don't think we need more mooks. But admittedly I'm not against the concept, I just don't think it's necessary.

I consider myself quite open-minded too, for what it's worth. I'm 1/9 in terms of DLC characters I wanted beforehand, and 8/9 in terms of DLC characters I've been happy with, as it currently stands. But of course, there are things I don't like; the abundance of Fire Emblem... bothers me a little bit, but I'll sleep at night just fine.

Make of it what you will, but beyond the pet peeve I just mentioned... I'm somewhat difficult to disappoint.

I've gotten 2/9 that I've wanted beforehand and 4/9 that I've been happy with.
I'm not counting Piranha Plant or Hero because I wasn't happy with them at all at the time.

 

[Kokiden]

I just realised... we're going to get a Sephiroth amiibo.

Oh man, the rush to get those is going to be insane.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Do I count?

Yes, though you are a special case, being the only generic mook that is also the mascot.


Unless you count Pikachu...

 

[Shroob]

Yes, though you are a special case, being the only generic mook that is also the mascot.


Unless you count Pikachu...

At the end of the day, Pokemon is just a series of "Generic mooks" lol.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Haven't we yet to get an old first-party character that didn't get a spirit? Maybe there's a chance for one of them!

Adeline's summoning abilities would be so fun.

 

[Deleted member]

I would say I am decent at Smash. I have been playing it a lot again, thanks to Sephiroth.

If only someone would fight me at an arena... Oh well. I have Level 9 CPUs to duel with.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Greninja and Incineroar were chosen based on what is probably popular, rather than actual verified popularity. It only worked out for Greninja because it actually could take the #1 spot on official favorite Pokemon polls.

Greninja and Incineroar were chosen by Sakurai due to moveset potential, that's it.

He's been very transparent about this.

 

[N3ON]

Do I count?

Not really, because Slime supporters existed before PP got in, and didn't change in quantity to any real extent after it got in... still being outside the Top 50, maybe top 100 in the west, and sort of further proving the point. PP didn't change anything.

And Slime is probably the most popular of the mooks, being its series' mascot. So... yeah...

 

[7NATOR]

So I Got to ask

Does Characters like Sans and Cuphead being Mii Costumes make them more likely to be Playable characters in the Future Smash game, Since they now have Official 3D Models that can be used as assets for the Next game?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So I Got to ask

Does Characters like Sans and Cuphead being Mii Costumes make them more likely to be Playable characters in the Future Smash game, Since they now have Official 3D Models that can be used as assets for the Next game?

Only if Sakurai wants to actually add them as playable to begin with.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Greninja and Incineroar were chosen by Sakurai due to moveset potential, that's it.

He's been very transparent about this.

People only hear what they want to hear from Sakurai. Like how he has said multiple times that Nintendo choose all the DLC for Ult, but people still insist that certain characters were "Sakurai picks" and certain characters were "Nintendo picks".

It seems like people just like to use Sakurai's words when it suits them and ignore them when it doesn't.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Greninja and Incineroar were chosen by Sakurai due to moveset potential, that's it.

He's been very transparent about this.

Well, more accurately, they had a theme that got his creativity going, though I would imagine plans for each respective Pokémon factors into the decision as well.

If it is just Sakurai's preference though, that does mean pinpointing the next Pokémon character is basically just not going to happen. Like, we know it will be a starter unless one of the newer Pokémon starts getting big even before their generation comes out, but there's no telling whether he would take a shine to the idea of, for example, a drummer, a soccer player, or a spy.

You know, it's honestly probably the starter design trend's fault that the reactions to the previous two Pokémon have been "that's cool and all, but I'd rather have Zangeif or Ryu as my wrestler or ninja". Any one of the Pokémon that could have gotten picked for the previous two games would have been based around a common theme...Well, except for Primarina. Opra isn't exactly common nor are seal mermaid thingies.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So I Got to ask

Does Characters like Sans and Cuphead being Mii Costumes make them more likely to be Playable characters in the Future Smash game, Since they now have Official 3D Models that can be used as assets for the Next game?

I think Sans will be a likely canditate in the future. I could totally see him being our first indie character. I guess they could go with Frisk instead, but Sans is just that much iconic. Undertale also have a pretty big impact on gaming and popular culture so I think it's possible.

For Cuphead I'm not so sure. I guess it could happen, but while it's very big for indie game standard and it's getting a tv show soon, I think that Cuphead would be very hard to translate to Smash. Sakurai loves that character are 100% like they are in their game. So how do you represent a game that it's most recognizable point is having hand drawn animation? I think this will be extremely hard to recreate in Smash. If they find a way to make it work I would be extremely happy for Cuphead as a playable fighter. But I don't want a 3d model for him. It would just looks off and weird.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

People only hear what they want to hear from Sakurai. Like how he has said multiple times that Nintendo choose all the DLC for Ult, but people still insist that certain characters were "Sakurai picks" and certain characters were "Nintendo picks".

It seems like people just like to use Sakurai's words when it suits them and ignore them when it doesn't.

That's how most people are about things literally any people can say and it makes me sad to remember how selfish and spoiled the world can be sometimes.

 

[TheCJBrine]

ngl I wanted a Goomba even before Plant got in.

I also want Primid.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

People only hear what they want to hear from Sakurai. Like how he has said multiple times that Nintendo choose all the DLC for Ult, but people still insist that certain characters were "Sakurai picks" and certain characters were "Nintendo picks".

It seems like people just like to use Sakurai's words when it suits them and ignore them when it doesn't.

So wait, people just hear want they want to hear from him?

Huh, I guess it was a bit odd that I swore Sakurai said Aero the Acrobat was a virtual lock for the second pass during Steve's presentation.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

People only hear what they want to hear from Sakurai. Like how he has said multiple times that Nintendo choose all the DLC for Ult, but people still insist that certain characters were "Sakurai picks" and certain characters were "Nintendo picks".

I still don't really get that honestly. He flat out said that Nintendo are the ones who picked the characters, and while he does seem to make some decisions, they are only at the categorical level. Like, it's clear he was given the freedom to pick which ARMS character they added, but the decision to pick an ARMS character in the first place was also clearly Nintendo's. And ironically, Sakurai just passed the buck to Yabuki for making the final decision.

Other than Min Min, he was probably given the freedom to choose Byleth, but the original decision was to pick a character from a game people were playing at the time he would come out.

 

[Ben Holt]

If Geno isn't announced as a Mii Costume tomorrow:

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Listen, if you’re fine with Piranha Plant but don’t support good ol’ Dr. Goomba Stack, we’re gonna have a problem.

 

[cashregister9]

Listen, if you’re fine with Piranha Plant but don’t support good ol’ Dr. Goomba Stack, we’re gonna have a problem.

I support Dr. Piranha Plant as well

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

ngl I wanted a Goomba even before Plant got in.

I also want Primid.

I'd legit pop off for Primid.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Listen, if you’re fine with Piranha Plant but don’t support good ol’ Dr. Goomba Stack, we’re gonna have a problem.

If they managed to make it work then the trio would probably be my favorite character.

 

[SNEKeater]

Battle On the Big Bridge is legendary, I don't know what weird ritual I have to do but I hope it makes it in

I really want FFXIV Music, It is in my top 3 FF OST's

Spoiler

In a fair world we would get Battle on the Big Bridge with Sephiroth. One of the best themes in Final Fantasy.

But it's not gonna happen.

Specifically the guys that went on to make Yakuza
They even took a stab at racing again with the Taxi Racing "minigame" in Yakuza 5 and they did a Kart Racer in Yakuza 7.

The kart minigame in Yakuza 7 is honestly impressive. And very fun.

Who needs Mario Kart 9 when you have Dragon Kart?

 

[Lamperouge]

Listen, if you’re fine with Piranha Plant but don’t support good ol’ Dr. Goomba Stack, we’re gonna have a problem.

I'm not a avid follower of the Dr. Mario lore nowadays so my mind was just blown to find out this is an actual thing and not a ****post.

 

[Momotsuki]

...Porky. It would probably be Porky.

For what it's worth - even noting that spirits don't rule out fighters, I just think this is a clever detail - Porky himself not being a spirit seems more likely to be a nod to the events of MOTHER3, considering the in-universe explanation for spirits, and the nature of the Absolutely Safe Capsule. Are these spoilers? Does anyone not know? Still though... Porky is probably my most wanted first-party fighter. Certainly my favorite Nintendo villain, without a doubt.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Who needs Mario Kart 9 when you have Touhou Kart?

fixed

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm not a avid follower of the Dr. Mario lore nowadays so my mind was just blown to find out this is an actual thing and not a ****post.

You wanna know the craziest thing?

This is a character they came up with before adding Morton and Lemmy. Ya know, 2 of the 7 roster fillers that get chucked onto pretty much everything nowadays. It's nuts.