Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

Considering we are having a debate over Byleth and Min Min, I had to do this.

 

[Schnee117]

We got a new Japanese Tales of survey to do with most played games

Tales of Fans Ranked the Most-played Games, Theme Songs, and Best Battle Systems

Tales of fans in Japan recently participated in a survey to rank their most played games, favorite theme songs, and best battle systems.

www.siliconera.com

Tales of Abyss is first followed by Vesperia and then Symphonia.

There's also second and third most played, theme song and battle system as well

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So since the topic is ARMS, if Min Min were to ever get an echo, who would be the best pick?

Probably Ninjara since his ninja motif fits Min Min's normals the best, and he also has the Chakram, so you would only need to code in 2 of his ARMS. It would be a bit weird that both Min Min and Ninjara are in the game and Spring Man and Ribbon Girl still aren't, but I don't think either of those two would work as Echo Fighters of Min Min.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

We got a new Japanese Tales of survey to do with most played games

Tales of Fans Ranked the Most-played Games, Theme Songs, and Best Battle Systems

Tales of fans in Japan recently participated in a survey to rank their most played games, favorite theme songs, and best battle systems.

www.siliconera.com

Tales of Abyss is first followed by Vesperia and then Symphonia.

There's also second and third most played, theme song and battle system as well

Glad to see Vesperia is still popular

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

This rules argument is rotting my brain.

Let's just... drop it and move on.



So since the topic is ARMS, if Min Min were to ever get an echo, who would be the best pick?

Making pretty much any ARMS characters an echo over Min Min would be a bit of a stretch (heh), but I think Ninjara would make the most sense

Like Shark mentioned, his martial arts could easily work with Min Min's kicks, and his main default ARM, the Chakram, is almost identical to Min Min's Ram Ram, just replace the fire effect with a brief, stunning one.

Also, he was the runner up for the slot right behind Min Min, so I think it's only fair to give him his due.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Speaking of Tales, I really liked Symphonia. I own Vesperia but haven’t gotten around to playing. I’ll have to get to it next year in my backlog.

Swamp Sensei honestly? In terms of ARMS I feel like Ninjara might be that second pick. If there’s no allegiance to Spring Man, and Sakurai was specifically interested in him, that seems plausible.

That doesn’t seem like a controversial opinion either, lol.

 

[GoodGrief741]

This rules argument is rotting my brain.

Let's just... drop it and move on.



So since the topic is ARMS, if Min Min were to ever get an echo, who would be the best pick?

Retribution for Spring Man

 

[Guynamednelson]

This rules argument is rotting my brain.

Let's just... drop it and move on.



So since the topic is ARMS, if Min Min were to ever get an echo, who would be the best pick?

No one. At least Ninjara's default ARMS fall into the same categories as Spring Man's, so it would be easier for him to get promoted if Sakurai went with Ninjara, but no one else in ARMS has a default ARMS loadout consisting of a beam, heavy, and curve-type arm. Some are close, but no cigar.

 

[Deleted member]

This rules argument is rotting my brain.

Let's just... drop it and move on.



So since the topic is ARMS, if Min Min were to ever get an echo, who would be the best pick?

Lanky Kong would be a fitting echo.

 

[Ivander]

This rules argument is rotting my brain.

Let's just... drop it and move on.



So since the topic is ARMS, if Min Min were to ever get an echo, who would be the best pick?

Ninjara? The reason I say him is that he's got the Chakram to Min-Min's Ramram and Ninjara's Triblast might be the closest thing to do something similar to Min-Min's Dragon. And he has the regular Buff which wouldn't be as powerful as Min-Min's Megawatt, but still fulfils the same purpose. I assume he's also one of the ones capable of kicking proficiently like Min-Min compared to the rest of the cast.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We got a new Japanese Tales of survey to do with most played games

Tales of Fans Ranked the Most-played Games, Theme Songs, and Best Battle Systems

Tales of fans in Japan recently participated in a survey to rank their most played games, favorite theme songs, and best battle systems.

www.siliconera.com

Tales of Abyss is first followed by Vesperia and then Symphonia.

There's also second and third most played, theme song and battle system as well

Tales of Symphonia was in the top three for every most played spot.

Just saying.

 

[SharkLord]

We got a new Japanese Tales of survey to do with most played games

Tales of Fans Ranked the Most-played Games, Theme Songs, and Best Battle Systems

Tales of fans in Japan recently participated in a survey to rank their most played games, favorite theme songs, and best battle systems.

www.siliconera.com

Tales of Abyss is first followed by Vesperia and then Symphonia.

There's also second and third most played, theme song and battle system as well

Hahaha
We were all wrong
Not Lloyd
Not Yuri
It's Luke

 

[Schnee117]

Tales of Symphonia was in the top three for every most played spot.

Just saying.

Behind Abyss each time

Luke Chads rise up

 

[GoodGrief741]

Honestly you could take Min Min as a base and make a bunch of ARMS characters from there. If they don't qualify for the nebulous rules of Echo Fighters, then at least as semi clones.

Yes I'm saying they should make ARMS into the new Fire Emblem, yes I already regret it

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Tales of Symphonia was in the top three for every most played spot.

Just saying.

I mean, right below abyss each time, but ya know, all the games are winners

 

[I.D.]

Considering we are having a debate over Byleth and Min Min, I had to do this.
View attachment 295815

Not everything I don't like, no, just Byleth

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Behind Abyss each time

Luke Chads rise up

I'm not as bothered by that as I should be.

Abyss and Luke are pretty great.

Lloyd is better though.....

 

[Deleted member]

Luke from Tales sounds pretty interesting, I must say.

 

[Speed Weed]

listen y'all I'm just saying Sephiroth's music selection is going to be extremely disappointing one way or another cause they're very likely not adding Crazy Chocobo

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't get why we constantly argue about Min Min or Byleth, when we still have three characters to look forward too.

Cause they could be three more Byleths.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I'm not as bothered by that as I should be.

Abyss and Luke are pretty great.

Lloyd is better though.....

Speaking of, Luke and Asch are also getting figures too

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Cause they could be three more Byleths.

Fire Emblem: Three Byleths

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...the Chakram, is almost identical to Min Min's Ram Ram, just replace the fire aspect with a stunning one.

It's worth noting that elemental effects seem to be ignored completely, so it would be as simple as changing the effect type from Fire to Normal.

Well...I say that but apparently stun is an effect as well. I suppose it doesn't render my statement entirely pointless though since the stun effect would require the ARM to be rebalanced, and if we're ignoring the ARM's elemental effects, then we wouldn't have to do that.

 

[Guynamednelson]

then at least as semi clones.

Oh yes, more ARMS reps would definitely use assets from Min Min, I'm just not sure if they'll be using enough to be considered echoes.

Cause they could be three more Byleths.

Don't worry.

They'll be three more Min Mins instead.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I know Sephiroth being the 1st character to be 2nd unique rep for a 3rd party series potentially open other 2nd unique reps for other 3rd party characters. It's clear why Sephiroth was added in 1st. The lack of content from Final Fantasy. I don't see characters from Sonic or Mega Man for example is because they would be bringing scraping from the bottom of the barrel for their DLC content.

The consistent pattern for the FP characters is that the characters's series or game(Three Houses in this case) had no or barely had content represented in Ultimate prior to their inclusion.

The only other 2nd rep 3rd party character that would be feasible would be from Street Fighter because III/IV/V barely have any content in the game right now.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

That's fine! I disagree that those three are the only ones that benefit, but just the fact that you wrote three long paragraphs about those kinds of characters is proof that we're in a much better place speculation-wise.

Now personally, I agree that we got so much Castlevania content in base game that it might be seen as overkill to give it more through DLC. On the other hand, it is freaking Alucard, and if they want him they'll find a way to make his content stand out. I would also look at Mega Man's candidates, as aside from being ATs there isn't anything stopping Wily or Zero. And while Persona has eclipsed SMT in popularity, SMT still has the advantages of being longer-running, very influential, very close to Nintendo, and having an upcoming game. All of those could add up to something imo.

I mean, again, I adore Castlevania, so I'm not as much opposed to Alucard as I doubt his inclusion at this point (the dude is basically halfway to a character already which is a bit insane and makes him feel like he'd be ripe for like a late game upgrade or something maybe even after Pass 2 if such a thing comes to past, but that's just me having a bit of fun). I think Mega Man is in a worse place given the fact that they've continually rolled out Mega Man content for this game with the most recent batch coming during Byleth's release when Pass 2 had long since been initially finalized. I still stand by the idea that if a series is getting content in a world where Pass 2 is either conceptualized or downright finalized, I'm not particularly optimistic about it being included in said Pass 2, so I think Mega Man falls victim to that.

SMT is just in a weird place. I really can't tell what Atlus thinks of the series anymore, especially in comparison to the cash cow that Persona has become, and I'm not as entirely sure that Nintendo will go for it at this point given it's more niche appeal. It's not even really a secondary character to an existing IP since Persona and SMT have diverged so drastically over the years. Demi-Fiend with a proper monster mechanic could be really cool though.

I think I'd be more inclined to see this opening up ideas and options if it was someone with a little less weight than Sephiroth. He just carries so much as one of the, if not THE, most known villains in gaming in addition to his role in potentially filling out the lackluster FF7 content that I just hesitate to go too far into the secondary options. Especially when there's still plenty of third parties and a few first parties that could arguably still make quite a splash with Smash.

It's very hard to predict who's coming next, but i think 2B has some decent chance. A second PlatinumGames rep makes sense and Nier: Automata sold pretty well worldwide. 2B seems like a character we could see in FP2 alongside some expected and unexpected ones.

Unfortunately, I think 2B was probably the biggest loser of Sephiroth's inclusion. Some people may point to Geno of course, but he was always more of a long shot, whereas 2B has in a short time become one of Square Enix's biggest and most well known characters. Not more well known than Sephiroth, but if I think of any recent Square Enix character that has taken the spotlight in one of the generation's most beloved breakout hits, it would be 2B.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I wonder if they did a tales popularity poll againthis year

 

[Guynamednelson]

Mega Man for example is because they would be bringing scraping from the bottom of the barrel for their DLC content.

That would definitely be the case if Mega Man's second unique fighter is from the classic series. You gotta go with the X/Legends/etc. subseries for another Mega Man rep.

 

[Schnee117]

I know Sephiroth being the 1st character to be 2nd unique rep for a 3rd party series potentially open other 2nd unique reps for other 3rd party characters. It's clear why Sephiroth was added in 1st. The lack of content from Final Fantasy. I don't see characters from Sonic or Mega Man for example is because they would be bringing scraping from the bottom of the barrel for their DLC content.

The consistent pattern for the FP characters is that the characters's series or game(Three Houses in this case) had no or barely had content represented in Ultimate prior to their inclusion.

The only other 2nd rep 3rd party character that would be feasible would be from Street Fighter because III/IV/V barely have any content in the game right now.

I don't think they'd have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for Sonic at all.
There's an abundance of music and potential stages to pick from and there's all of Eggman's robots to use as spirits.

 

[MooMew64]

Since people are talking about him, I can attest that Luke fon Fabre is a very good boy, and has one of the most interesting and noticeable character growth stories I've ever seen. Like, without spoilers, lemme just say that early game Luke and endgame Luke are night and day difference in Abyss, lol.

 

[Cosmic77]

Those are not rules.

That’s literally somebody sharing their opinion, lol.

Also, your examples are disingenuous. Many of the people, myself included, who suggested things like you’re posting would follow up with, “It’s not impossible, but I just don’t think it will happen.” With that added context, it changes the overall tone. Interesting!

Connotation is everything. You’re literally talking to an English teacher. I know these things. The wording does change the meaning if they aren’t legitimately the same thing- calling it a fan rule as opposed to “an opinion” implies one person is trying to dictate what other people say, which hasn’t happened. This is also evident in how you described folks with the quotes you pulled, mind you, in an incomplete manner, to support a narrative that doesn’t exist.

Just saying, you’re wrong about words just being words and not mattering. That’s not how writing works. I grade writing for a living- word choice is very important to the tone and purpose of a piece of writing. Words are not interchangeable simply by existing.

This is like the third time in the last 2 days this conversation has come up, so it’s probably best to stop talking about it so people can actually talk about the game.

I don't know what else to tell you at this point. You're missing the bigger message about being open-minded and not jumping to deconfirmations, all because of some bad history with the word "rule".

If we get to a point where an opinion becomes so widely accepted that conversations involving relevant characters suffer as a result, that handicaps how much we can talk about said characters. There's not much you can do about it either. Unless you're gifted with a silver tongue and the conversation skills of a lawyer, you'll never convince this thread until something concrete happens to disprove them. Min Min is the best example I can think of because just talking about getting an ARMS character was hard enough by itself. Now try telling people that the ARMS character wouldn't be Spring Man or Ribbon Girl. That's why I think it's important for this thread to acknowledge when something breaks the norm, and even more important for them to keep that in mind for future speculation. It becomes easier and easier to discuss characters each time it happens.

I occasionally use the term "fan rule" whenever I see something along the lines of, "'X' can't happen because...", and while claiming it's a rule probably is the correct usage of the word, I think it's close enough to emphasize my point. Some of the opinions here do feel silly, and it's hard not to label them as a rule when so many agree and actively use those opinions to prematurely rule out options.

I can see that you don't see it the same, so I'll leave it at this. I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm more bothered by how much effort people put into finding ways to narrow down our options than I am with confusing rules with opinions.

 

[SharkLord]

listen y'all I'm just saying Sephiroth's music selection is going to be extremely disappointing one way or another cause they're very likely not adding Crazy Chocobo

CURAZY CHOCOBO

 

[N3ON]

Tales seems like the kind of thing that will be subject to revisionism when Lloyd gets chosen and people claim he was the obvious choice all along.

Which I think is the case, but clearly my opinion is not ubiquitous.

 

[Icedragonadam]

FFV is among my favorite FF games. So please give me Exdeath's boss theme and Battle On The Big Bridge!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[I.D.]

Tales seems like the kind of thing that will be subject to revisionism when Lloyd gets chosen

Do you know something we don't hmmm?

 

[N3ON]

Do you know something we don't hmmm?

C'mon now, the less I know the better.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I don't know what else to tell you at this point. You're missing the bigger message about being open-minded and not jumping to deconfirmations, all because of some bad history with the word "rule".

If we get to a point where an opinion becomes so widely accepted that conversations involving relevant characters suffer as a result, that handicaps how much we can talk about said characters. There's not much you can do about it either. Unless you're gifted with a silver tongue and the conversation skills of a lawyer, you'll never convince this thread until something concrete happens to disprove them. Min Min is the best example I can think of because just talking about getting an ARMS character was hard enough by itself. Now try telling people that the ARMS character wouldn't be Spring Man or Ribbon Girl. That's why I think it's important for this thread to acknowledge when something breaks the norm, and even more important for them to keep that in mind for future speculation. It becomes easier and easier to discuss characters each time it happens.

I occasionally use the term "fan rule" whenever I see something along the lines of, "'X' can't happen because...", and while claiming it's a rule probably is the correct usage of the word, I think it's close enough to emphasize my point. Some of the opinions here do feel silly, and it's hard not to label them as a rule when so many agree and actively use those opinions to prematurely rule out options.

I can see that you don't see it the same, so I'll leave it at this. I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm more bothered by how much effort people put into finding ways to narrow down our options than I am with confusing rules with opinions.

I don't quite get the resistance to narrowing down options. It's just kind of a fundamental feature of speculation because in saying that one character is likely or possible you inherently are limiting other options because there are only so many characters that can be included. If I say I think "Monster Hunter is likely" than, well, that statement likely puts Dante, Phoenix Wright, and Chun-Li at a disadvantage and by extension makes them less likely. Sure, that's indicative of a fan rule of only one third party character from the same company per pass that is born out of precedent... but like, you have to use something in your speculation decision making.

I think the issue is that, "Anything is possible" isn't really much of a conversation. It's a statement of belief that then doesn't allow for much deeper analysis and really only allows people to voice their personal interests devoid of additional context. And it's fine to want to support a character or characters that you like and want, but I still think Speculation focused threads/Discord channels/websites that aren't as specific are going to tend to want to narrow down options and make more fine predictions because that's the nature of general threads and people enjoy speculating in such a way as to make founded predictions on available information. And it's fine for those to be wrong and for people to keep adjusting them as times goes on and new information is made available because it seems to me a lot of people genuinely enjoy that and don't really keep score as to the rights and wrongs of speculation.

 

[cashregister9]

FFV is among my favorite FF games. So please give me Exdeath's boss theme and Battle On The Big Bridge!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Battle On the Big Bridge is legendary, I don't know what weird ritual I have to do but I hope it makes it in

I really want FFXIV Music, It is in my top 3 FF OST's

Spoiler

 

[Momotsuki]

If we get another Mega Man rep, somehow... I think Bass would be cool.

Also, who the hell gives a damn about actually, like - rationally speculating? Honestly. I'm here to sound off on things I think would be cool and think might be plausible, or maybe I don't think it's plausible and just want to talk about it. Of course, not that any of it matters; I have all the cards anyway.

I can't speak for everyone but I'm not really here to converse, just think to myself out loud. Spending all your time just shooting down possible characters sounds like some boring and exhausting right claptrap.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do you know something we don't hmmm?

Well she has a sense of humor for one...