Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cosmic77]

In a certain sense it was successful, but I'd argue not enough to warrant an addition into Smash Ultimate, much less as a DLC fighter. Like many fighting games, ARMS failed to hold on to a majority of its player base a few months after launch, only beingkept alive today by the odd tourney held by Nintendo. It failed to make a large enough splash to lead a DLC pass in Smash.

Even if this is true, though it's not, who cares?

Min Min and every other ARMS character would've been a great addition solely because they're capable of doing something that no one else on the roster can do.

 

[7NATOR]

Forgive me if I'm interpreting this wrong, but I really don't think Nintendo assumed Min-Min was fan requested. There's a clear difference between "speculated" and "requested", I don't think the development team would make a mistake like that. I do agree that we may be underwhelmed by who's next though, Steve and Sephiroth are big shoes to fill.

Well I'm trying to keep an Open Mind, because it's possible Nintendo might take it as ARMS being requested


and actually on that Notion, I will say that while alot of the Talk of ARMS might have been from Predictions mostly, there were alot of people that did want ARMS to be represented with the character, for a number of reasons

And I will say that just while I do think the characters going forward might not compare to Steve and Sephiroth in terms of hype, from Majority standpoint (except maybe FP11), I don't think they have to be underwhelming either.

It's like if Goku was in Super Sayian Blue, and decided to Transform himself down to Super Sayian God. Sure Super Sayian God might not be as Powerful as Super Sayian Blue, but it still is pretty powerful

 

[GoodGrief741]

If you're portraying me as the guy who's supposed to be irrationally angry it's not funny. If the joke isn't funny, that defeats the point.

It's worth pointing out that the joke in SpongeBob is that SpongeBob and Patrick are wrong and Squidward isn't afraid of what Patrick's mocking him with.

 

[SharkLord]

It's worth pointing out that the joke in SpongeBob is that SpongeBob and Patrick are wrong and Squidward isn't afraid of what Patrick's mocking him with.

Look I haven't seen a proper SpongeBob episode in who-knows-how-long I don't know my trivia

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Trying to have a conversation about ARMS getting a character prior to March 2020 would've been near impossible just because of general assumptions and "rules" people made in this thread. Even if someone didn't believe those assumptions and genuinely thought an ARMS character had a chance, it's unlikely that many others would be convinced, and most of the responses would probably fall along the lines of, "We're probably not getting ARMS until the next game, but hey, who knows? I guess anything is possible."

Clearly the first three characters of this pass alone have broken a lot of norms. I think it's important for people to acknowledge that so we can be more open-minded and have an easier time discussing characters that normally wouldn't have been given the time of day. This isn't about, "Who was right, who was wrong?" despite what some people seem to think, and I wish more people would just let go of these "rules" and reevaluate instead of finding numerous exceptions and vehemently protecting their disproven assumptions.

People could let go of rules if there were rules.

We’ve been over this. Sure, words are words. But they’re not rules. Popular ideas? Sure.

They’re not rules.

Nobody is forcing anybody to support or talk about certain things. Describing it in that way is hyperbole and nothing less.

What you’re talking about are differing perspectives. It’s fine to have differing perspectives and ideas.

I even said it earlier- Nobody cares about being right or wrong. If people like the idea of certain characters more, or if they think certain ideas make sense, that’s just where the discussion will go in a speculation thread.

It’s that simple. Please, I think I speak for a lot of other people here- let the “rules” thing go.

The only times rules are mentioned are when people complain about them. They won’t matter if we stop talking about them.

Honestly, if it really was to the point where people were being ***** about it: I’m sorry that it was going on that way. It shouldn’t have been. But I really think we’ve gotten to the point where we’re past it, and don’t need to continue harping on it as if it’s a phantom pain.

 

[latsmash]

Even if this is true, and it's not, who cares?

Min Min and every other ARMS character would've been a great addition solely because they're capable of doing something that no one else on the roster can do.

I'm not arguing that Min-Min was a bad pick, I'm arguing that her additions seems to minor to directly influence the rest of the pass.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

So I wanted to share a Thought I had about the Fighter Pass 2 Going forward

If the Pattern about "The Best characters in the Beginning" is still a Factor for this Pass, than Min-Min is kind of weird in the Grand Scheme of things

The order of the characters in both base game, FP1 and (so far) FP2 seem follows a classical bell (gaussian) curve regarding popularity.

Both started with a mid-popular fighter (Inkling/Joker/Min Min) from a relative new game (Splatoon 2015/Persona 5 2016/Arms 2017) that is popular (not necessary massive) on their home system (WiiU,PS4 and Switch).

Then it proceed to the biggest picks of the pass, either from fan demanded iconic characters and/or very big IPs (Ridley/Simon/King K Rool for base game, Hero/Banjo for FP1 and Steve/Sephiroth for FP2) so I think there is a chance that next fighter is also very big in popularity/fan demand.

The last fighters (Isabelle/Incineroar for base game, Terry/Byleth for FP1) are the least popular picks, they can be from very big IPs like Animal Crossing or Pokémon but not necessary have fan demand in smash circles.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

It's worth pointing out that the joke in SpongeBob is that SpongeBob and Patrick are wrong and Squidward isn't afraid of what Patrick's mocking him with.

T'is the beauty of Spongebob memes, they can account for so much nuance for any argument.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

In a certain sense it was successful, but I'd argue not enough to warrant an addition into Smash Ultimate, much less as a DLC fighter. Like many fighting games, ARMS failed to hold on to a majority of its player base a few months after launch, only beingkept alive today by the odd tourney held by Nintendo. It failed to make a large enough splash to lead a DLC pass in Smash.

Not every new Nintendo franchise needs to be or will be a Splatoon style booming success. Those are far from the norm.

ARMS for what it's worth, was a modest success. A solid 2 million. That's on par with the first Pikmin.

 

[SKX31]

Alright, I added 42 more characters. This is the real number.

Have fun.

Hmm. If Sonic were to get a move-set overhaul, what would his new moves be?

Some Sonic Battle moves for his normals and the Boost as his side special. The Spin Dash is moved to his down special. Perhaps some slower attacks or more endlag, especially on the specials, to prevent the annoying campy moveset he's become infamous for. Though, I'm not the best with competitive stuff; I'd imagine SKX31 would have a more in-depth explanation on the competitive issues with Sonic's kit.

You called?

The main issues with Sonic in a competitive setting (this could also apply to a casual setting if a Sonic player decides to troll / grief) is that his two primary ball moves (Spin Dash and Spin Charge) are close enough to function relatively the same... but also allow the Sonic player to decide when to commit and when not to. With either a Spin Dash / Spin Charge, the Sonic player is able to:

• Go directly for the blow, and if the opponent doesn't shield / evade get a 30 %-string.
• Turn on a dime, possibly just outside of the opponent's reach.
• Jump and follow up with a lot of other stuff, including Homing Attack.

That's a main reason why Sonic's able to manipulate most any situation, but the Up B, as SMAASH! Puppy mentioned, is another one. Those three specials combined with the initial dash mean that Sonic can choose to play non-interactive at will. Non-interactivity and defense is a fine method in concept, but just as has an infamously disjointed back-air that frequently frustrates opponents, Sonic's ability to force interactions frequently frustrate opponents and drains adrealine.*

The problem is amplified online, due to lag really hindering the opponent's reaction time. Sonic IIRC wasn't really infamous amongst the more hardcore until the pandemic hit and everyone was forced to online.

I should note: there are players who use the current Sonic moveset in an aggressive, direct manner (KEN and SupergirlKels are two rather prominent examples, KEN in particular is a contender for Japan's best SSBU player ATM), but there was a period of time where most VoDs of Sonic winning in online tournaments were met by circa 40-80% dislikes. One example here (no offense meant to Wrath, who plays a pretty good Sonic himself).

I do like Puppy's proposed solution here of reducing his initial dash heavily since it would encourage a more commital style a la the two aformentioned pros. Currently Sonic's initial dash is the third-fastest in the game... behind ZSS and Little Mac.

*[For that matter: in competitive settings, traditionally aggresive characters can make the opponent feel overwhelmed in some situations (, as TerminalMontage memed about here - loud sound warning as with any TerminalMontage video). Or the select few characters that are masters of all can do both ( ). One way to approach potentially-aggravating matchups is to mentally prepare oneself and try to lessen the frustration.]

In a certain sense it was successful, but I'd argue not enough to warrant an addition into Smash Ultimate, much less as a DLC fighter. Like many fighting games, ARMS failed to hold on to a majority of its player base a few months after launch, only beingkept alive today by the odd tourney held by Nintendo. It failed to make a large enough splash to lead a DLC pass in Smash.

The truth is somewhere in the middle really:

Initially ARMS did relatively well and sold ca. 2.38 million by New Years 2020. I'm inclined to believe however that ARMS didn't have as strong legs as Nintendo hoped based on the fact that Nintendo stopped hosting official tournaments between March 2018 and March 2020 (the CP6 reveal). That might be what Nintendo tried to remedy by including Min Min in Smash, to try and strenghen the game's longevity.

We'll simply have to see if that succeeds, IIRC the relative lack of modes has been commented upon as a potential hindrance (correct me if I'm wrong here), for example.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If you look for new IP that sells over 1 million, you won't find many that aren't triple A games that were going to succeed no matter what. The ones that don't fit that bill are usually hailed as phenomenal successes, not without reason.

Just because Nintendo can churn them out at an incredible pace doesn't make it any less impressive.

 

[Cosmic77]

People could let go of rules if there were rules.

We’ve been over this. Sure, words are words. But they’re not rules. Popular ideas? Sure.

They’re not rules.

Nobody is forcing anybody to support or talk about certain things. Describing it in that way is hyperbole and nothing less.

What you’re talking about are differing perspectives. It’s fine to have differing perspectives and ideas.

I even said it earlier- Nobody cares about being right or wrong. If people like the idea of certain characters more, or if they think certain ideas make sense, that’s just where the discussion will go in a speculation thread.

It’s that simple. Please, I think I speak for a lot of other people here- let the “rules” thing go.

The only times rules are mentioned are when people complain about them. They won’t matter if we stop talking about them.

I'm gonna be blunt, you're getting way too worked up over simple terms.

Maybe I'm too insensitive, but "speculation", "assumptions", "fan rules", "rules", "theories", and "ideas" are all pretty interchangeable in this thread, especially if they apply to something that's generally accepted but never outright stated by Nintendo or Sakurai. They're just words, and I don't see why it should really matter that much.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Jon Cartwright from Nintendo Life did his Top 10 Mii Costumes he wants to see for Sephiroth's Presentation.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm gonna be blunt, you're getting way too worked up over simple terms.

Maybe I'm too insensitive, but "speculation", "assumptions", "fan rules", "rules", "theories", and "ideas" are all pretty interchangeable in this thread, especially if they apply to something that's generally accepted but never outright stated by Nintendo or Sakurai. They're just words, and I don't see why it should really matter that much.

By calling something a “fan rule”, it becomes designated as “you’re trying to tell me what we can or can’t talk about”.

That’s quite literally the only context in which it’s used- to make something seem negative when it’s...just an idea.

The last few people to have mentioned it absolutely have made it clear it’s a negative term compared to others, and the term itself, again, makes it seem like, “If you don’t abide by this idea, you’re wrong!” Which has quite literally never happened.

It’s a bull**** term and has no meaning, or at least the usage of it doesn’t, because really it’s making something out of nothing.

Speculation and “fan rule” are not interchangeable. I don’t even see how they could be. The connotation of those words is entirely different.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Here's the thing though: there's no reason to be skeptical of it happening again. There's no reason why it wouldn't, beyond the statistical improbability that any given character out of the thousands of candidates gets into one of three spots. Can you be doubtful that, say, Eggman will get in? Sure! But now we have concrete proof that there's nothing that puts him in a different category than, say, Monster Hunter. If you're naturally a skeptic that's fine, but if you're only going to be skeptical towards this "new" batch of potential candidates, it comes off as being resistant to change.

At the end of the day, everyone's trying to guess who the next characters could be. And many of the fighters are characters that people have outright dismissed for reasons that, in my eye, were unnecessary. It really doesn't hurt to consider more characters than usual; the wider the net cast and all that.

But what I'm aiming at isn't just that the community should look at characters that were previously seen as disconfirmed (like Spirits) and give them a second analysis - that's only part of it. I also think that people should look at what similar prejudices we hold now, and if they don't hold up to logic, then cast them aside before we get blindsided again.

But why wasn't Sephiroth heavily considered beforehand? Every one of the circumstances you mention were well known to us long before his reveal, and yet nobody gave him the time of day. Why is that? Well, it's because few thought a second Final Fantasy fighter could happen, given precedent. That's it. That's all it took for a character of Sephiroth's caliber to be completely ignored in speculation. Doesn't that seem incredibly myopic to you?

It's true; Sephiroth being in Smash in no way points to other characters like him getting in. But it does point to many possibilities that were being ignored. What reason is there to continue to ignore them now that there's no excuse?

From a practical standpoint, I fail to see what's the difference between Sephiroth and Eggman. Unless you get into the minutiae of sales numbers, they share most of their pros and cons.

On the Bandana Dee side, like you say, it's not 1 to 1. But I think the point that people are making about him (that I agree with) is that he had great chances before Sephiroth, but now people are actually forced to confront them. Bandana Dee and Sephiroth are incomparable characters in every sense, except for one: that they're side characters in franchises that already had fighters. And despite their many differences they were seen as unlikely for the one common trait they shared. Now that said trait is no longer cause for disconfirmation, people should have to actually look at his other merits, and since said merits are all very good, hopefully it would mean he's taken seriously as a candidate.

Of course, this doesn't preclude that someone give a fair look at Dee's accolades and still think that he's unlikely. But if it leads to an actual in-depth discussion instead of a brief "I doubt he'll get in, he's a Spirit" or "I doubt he'll get in, new worlds", I see that as a win.

tl;dr people boil down characters to categories based on one single aspect of them, and that's no bueno

I'm not really sure that Sephiroth opens the door beyond like Eggman and Chun-Li if I'm being honest. Those three occupy a rather unique status as some of the biggest and most important icons in the industry as secondary characters for existing third party franchises. Like Mega Man has regularly spent this game putting its other top contenders in other roles even into more recent DLC. Metal Gear Solid really has no reason for a secondary option to be included outside of the controversial Raiden perhaps. Persona eclipses SMT completely and pretty much delivered the entire series in its character pack. Terry is all of SNK similarly. Banjo-Kazooie is more or less completely covered, as are Dragon Quest, Minecraft, and Bayonetta.

That really just leaves Castlevania, Street Fighter, and Sonic as the major options. I think Castlevania getting so much love in the base game with a clear decision to prioritize Belmonts over Alucard kind of puts Castlevania in a position where I don't see it getting a secondary character (I'd love Alucard and he's incredibly recognizable, but the base game did give us two Belmonts). So we come down to Street Fighter and Sonic. Sonic has long been the subject of the previously mythical "second unique third party character" and I think the clear cut choice there would be Eggman since he's incredibly recognizable as Sonic's Bowser type recurring villain. I don't necessarily want more Sonic stuff in Smash personally, but I'll begrudgingly see the argument there for him especially alongside Sephiroth as one of gaming's most iconic villains. And then Chun-Li is the basically the most recognizable woman in fighting games and as important to Street Fighter as Ryu and Ken. Street Fighter itself isn't the largest third party series here, but Chun-Li remains one of the most recognizable faces in gaming for a reason, hence why I think she is one of the more specific options for a new fighter from an existing third party series.

I don't necessarily expect either to make the roster, but if there was anywhere to look in the aftermath of Sephiroth, I believe that they make the most sense. That said, I don't really think Sephiroth opens the door for much else and doesn't impact first parties really at all. We've already seen a willingness to go to first parties with Byleth and Min Min, but it still doesn't really feel like they're a huge priority at this point in the DLC cycle. Especially within the context that Sephiroth is the juggernaut he is from the third party series with some of the weakest representation in game that Sephiroth will arguably be working to correct (and I absolutely think that is relevant to his inclusion and may make him unique in adding to the third party series in Smash when it's all said and done).

Trying to have a conversation about ARMS getting a character prior to March 2020 would've been near impossible just because of general assumptions and "rules" people made in this thread. Even if someone didn't believe those assumptions and genuinely thought an ARMS character had a chance, it's unlikely that many others would be convinced, and most of the responses would probably fall along the lines of, "We're probably not getting ARMS until the next game, but hey, who knows? I guess anything is possible."

Clearly the first three characters of this pass alone have broken a lot of norms. I think it's important for people to acknowledge that so we can be more open-minded and have an easier time discussing characters that normally wouldn't have been given the time of day. This isn't about, "Who was right, who was wrong?" despite what some people seem to think, and I wish more people would just let go of these "rules" and reevaluate instead of finding numerous exceptions and vehemently protecting their disproven assumptions.

I mean, one of the biggest reasons ARMS was not a serious contender is that it didn't feel like something Nintendo was particularly interested in continuing. Yes, it showed initially solid sales, but it was very much a game that came out in a period with little else to play and then it plateaued fairly quickly. Nintendo seemed to have bigger plans for ARMS, but then those kind of fizzled out and we saw stuff like the ARMS comic being unceremoniously put on hiatus/cancelled in the time leading up to Volume 2. There was no clear future for ARMS and I think that myself and many others saw it as a distinct possibility that it was an experiment that Nintendo was happy with in terms of success, but didn't really prioritize continuing. The smaller IPs have never really been much of a guarantee to get into Smash, let alone in this era where larger third party IPs are basically the frontrunners of new additions via DLC.

Like, ARMS required a very specific internal Nintendo mindset to more actively see as a possibility. Same would be if say Golden Sun had a sudden revival and Isaac got in. Like, sure, that's technically a possibility, but there's no evidence or indication of such an event happening anymore than there was evidence of ARMS really getting much of a continuation. I don't think it's worth holding people's doubts regarding ARMS against them too much when it wasn't like a spectacularly strong IP to begin with. I'll admit I was wrong about it, but I will still stand by that initial thought process on why I didn't expect ARMS to get in.

 

[Deleted member]

So does Sephiroth have longer range than the Belmonts?

Tifa's breasts are octahedrons.

I'm not horny, I just wanted to poke fun.

 

[MooMew64]

Not every new Nintendo franchise needs to be or will be a Splatoon style booming success. Those are far from the norm.

ARMS for what it's worth, was a modest success. A solid 2 million. That's on par with the first Pikmin.

Heck, 2 million is more than the average Metroid sells.

As for the whole "rules" discussion that's going on...again, for some reason, I personally don't see any more I can add to it. Me and Scoliosis Jones have thrown our two cents on the matter multiple times, and it pretty much ends the same way every time, so all I'm left with now is the good 'ol fashioned "agree to disagree" mindset. I still think calling them "rules" is disingenuous, but I'm not gonna tell others what to do.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Tifa's breasts are octahedrons.

I'm not horny, I just wanted to poke fun.

Poke something anyway...

 

[Deleted member]

I don't get why we constantly argue about Min Min or Byleth, when we still have three characters to look forward too.

 

[MooMew64]

I don't get why we constantly argue about Min Min or Byleth, when we still have three characters to look forward too.

It's mostly because this fanbase has proven time and time again that they can't let anything go.

 

[Aerospherology]

I don't get why we constantly argue about Min Min or Byleth, when we still have three characters to look forward too.

But what character would be the next of these?

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm not really sure that Sephiroth opens the door beyond like Eggman and Chun-Li if I'm being honest. Those three occupy a rather unique status as some of the biggest and most important icons in the industry as secondary characters for existing third party franchises. Like Mega Man has regularly spent this game putting its other top contenders in other roles even into more recent DLC. Metal Gear Solid really has no reason for a secondary option to be included outside of the controversial Raiden perhaps. Persona eclipses SMT completely and pretty much delivered the entire series in its character pack. Terry is all of SNK similarly. Banjo-Kazooie is more or less completely covered, as are Dragon Quest, Minecraft, and Bayonetta.

That really just leaves Castlevania, Street Fighter, and Sonic as the major options. I think Castlevania getting so much love in the base game with a clear decision to prioritize Belmonts over Alucard kind of puts Castlevania in a position where I don't see it getting a secondary character (I'd love Alucard and he's incredibly recognizable, but the base game did give us two Belmonts). So we come down to Street Fighter and Sonic. Sonic has long been the subject of the previously mythical "second unique third party character" and I think the clear cut choice there would be Eggman since he's incredibly recognizable as Sonic's Bowser type recurring villain. I don't necessarily want more Sonic stuff in Smash personally, but I'll begrudgingly see the argument there for him especially alongside Sephiroth as one of gaming's most iconic villains. And then Chun-Li is the basically the most recognizable woman in fighting games and as important to Street Fighter as Ryu and Ken. Street Fighter itself isn't the largest third party series here, but Chun-Li remains one of the most recognizable faces in gaming for a reason, hence why I think she is one of the more specific options for a new fighter from an existing third party series.

I don't necessarily expect either to make the roster, but if there was anywhere to look in the aftermath of Sephiroth, I believe that they make the most sense. That said, I don't really think Sephiroth opens the door for much else and doesn't impact first parties really at all. We've already seen a willingness to go to first parties with Byleth and Min Min, but it still doesn't really feel like they're a huge priority at this point in the DLC cycle. Especially within the context that Sephiroth is the juggernaut he is from the third party series with some of the weakest representation in game that Sephiroth will arguably be working to correct (and I absolutely think that is relevant to his inclusion and may make him unique in adding to the third party series in Smash when it's all said and done).



I mean, one of the biggest reasons ARMS was not a serious contender is that it didn't feel like something Nintendo was particularly interested in continuing. Yes, it showed initially solid sales, but it was very much a game that came out in a period with little else to play and then it plateaued fairly quickly. Nintendo seemed to have bigger plans for ARMS, but then those kind of fizzled out and we saw stuff like the ARMS comic being unceremoniously put on hiatus/cancelled in the time leading up to Volume 2. There was no clear future for ARMS and I think that myself and many others saw it as a distinct possibility that it was an experiment that Nintendo was happy with in terms of success, but didn't really prioritize continuing. The smaller IPs have never really been much of a guarantee to get into Smash, let alone in this era where larger third party IPs are basically the frontrunners of new additions via DLC.

Like, ARMS required a very specific internal Nintendo mindset to more actively see as a possibility. Same would be if say Golden Sun had a sudden revival and Isaac got in. Like, sure, that's technically a possibility, but there's no evidence or indication of such an event happening anymore than there was evidence of ARMS really getting much of a continuation. I don't think it's worth holding people's doubts regarding ARMS against them too much when it wasn't like a spectacularly strong IP to begin with. I'll admit I was wrong about it, but I will still stand by that initial thought process on why I didn't expect ARMS to get in.

That's fine! I disagree that those three are the only ones that benefit, but just the fact that you wrote three long paragraphs about those kinds of characters is proof that we're in a much better place speculation-wise.

Now personally, I agree that we got so much Castlevania content in base game that it might be seen as overkill to give it more through DLC. On the other hand, it is freaking Alucard, and if they want him they'll find a way to make his content stand out. I would also look at Mega Man's candidates, as aside from being ATs there isn't anything stopping Wily or Zero. And while Persona has eclipsed SMT in popularity, SMT still has the advantages of being longer-running, very influential, very close to Nintendo, and having an upcoming game. All of those could add up to something imo.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

But what character would be the next of these?

Do I really need to tell you?

Spoiler: The legend

Sorry, another blue haired swordsman!

 

[Cosmic77]

By calling something a “fan rule”, it becomes designated as “you’re trying to tell me what we can or can’t talk about”.

That’s quite literally the only context in which it’s used- to make something seem negative when it’s...just an idea.

The last few people to have mentioned it absolutely have made it clear it’s a negative term compared to others, and the term itself, again, makes it seem like, “If you don’t abide by this idea, you’re wrong!” Which has quite literally never happened.

It’s a bull**** term and has no meaning, or at least the usage of it doesn’t, because really it’s making something out of nothing.

So you want us to refrain from using "fan rule" because it sounds more concrete and doesn't acknowledge flexible assumptions? "Min Min probably won't get in because she isn't one of the mascot characters for ARMS." "Sephiroth probably won't get in because third-parties have never gotten a second character outside Echoes."

Again, you're getting worked up over a term. Maybe it doesn't sound as respectful as "speculation", but using that word instead doesn't really change the context that much if most people agree with it.

 

[MooMew64]

I'mma be real here:

All I need for tomorrow to be 10/10 is a Tifa costume and "J-E-N-O-V-A" to be on Sephiroth's stage. Anything else is just the cherry on top.

 

[Schnee117]

Apparently this bears a repeat

If you can't separate speculation from fan rules then you shouldn't be posting in this thread tbh

Heck, 2 million is more than the average Metroid sells.

As for the whole "rules" discussion that's going on...again, for some reason, I personally don't see any more I can add to it. Me and Scoliosis Jones have thrown our two cents on the matter multiple times, and it pretty much ends the same way every time, so all I'm left with now is the good 'ol fashioned "agree to disagree" mindset. I still think calling them "rules" is disingenuous, but I'm not gonna tell others what to do.

2 mill is also typically the upper bound for most fighting games and how much they sell.
Mortal Kombat, Injustice, Tekken, Smash and Street Fighter are the only ones that come to mind in terms of consistently outdoing that and Mortal Kombat only started that streak with MK9 whilst SFV had to get a massive adrenaline shot after a poor launch.

In terms of other individual games there's Dragon Ball FighterZ and KI 2013 but the latter is also F2P.

So Arms has outperformed most other games in the genre.

 

[Deleted member]

It's mostly because this fanbase has proven time and time again that they can't let anything go.

Yes, they really need to learn to let things goo. This fanbase takes speculation way too seriously.

Just have fun. If you don't like a character, they aren't going to go away.

I'm not saying you have to love a character, but don't constantly groan about it. That is annoying.

 

[cothero]

It's very hard to predict who's coming next, but i think 2B has some decent chance. A second PlatinumGames rep makes sense and Nier: Automata sold pretty well worldwide. 2B seems like a character we could see in FP2 alongside some expected and unexpected ones.

 

[7NATOR]

Sonic's Never been able to just Suddenly gain Speed like he Does in Smash, unless he uses Light Speed dash or the Boost Attack (but he doesn't have any of those moves)

Though I think the Reason they may have done that because It probably was more fun that way. Sakurai did say that Fun is an important Factor in terms of balancing. Fun should not be sacrificed for Balancing. I think they felt Sonic not being able to Zip across the stage with his Intial dash felt more Clunky for him and they made his Initial Dash fast

But that Initial Speed is part of the Reason Sonic is Unfun to Fight, along with the Mentioned moves of TWO Spindashes and a Spring. I think combined with Sonic's Moves not being the Most Safe, and yeah Sonic is Encouraged more to Hit and Run and Camp all day.

I think though that perhaps Sonic was meant to be designed as a Hit and Run Character. I Believe in Sonic's Column from Sakurai

Sonic the Hedgehog Joins the Battle!! – Source Gaming

Sakurai said that he decided that Sonic needed Times where he can be Slow. I think from the Get go he was made to be Hit and Run, Where Sonic is able to Zip, but his Actual Attacks are not the most Safe and Sonic is slow to act. This Design However has proven to be a Charcater people don't like to Fight

I'm gonna do Some Shadow Plugging here, but I Imagine that if Shadow was in this Fighter Pass, I think they might Take the Opposite Approach where Shadow has to Gain his Speed Normally, but he's able to Overwhelm you with Attacks once he gets in. I could see Light Speed Dash and Boost in his moveset, which would allow him to Zip, but they should have their own Consequences. I think people want a More Aggressive Take on Sonic, and if they can't do with Sonic, they could do it with Shadow, who Fits the mold better from a character standpoint anyway

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It's very hard to predict who's coming next, but i think 2B has some decent chance. A second PlatinumGames rep makes sense and Nier: Automata sold pretty well worldwide. 2B seems like a character we could see in FP2 alongside some expected and unexpected ones.

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Watch her get Mii'd tomorrow because that's what I'm expecting. Especially given that statement between Sakurai and Nier's creator.

 

[Lamperouge]

I don't get why we constantly argue about Min Min or Byleth, when we still have three characters to look forward too.

I'm not looking forward to the criticism of their inclusions inevitably ramping up as we near the end of the pass.

 

[cothero]

Watch her get Mii'd tomorrow because that's what I'm expecting. Especially given that statement between Sakurai and Nier's creator.

Could you share that statement?

 

[SharkLord]

It's very hard to predict who's coming next, but i think 2B has some decent chance. A second PlatinumGames rep makes sense and Nier: Automata sold pretty well worldwide. 2B seems like a character we could see in FP2 alongside some expected and unexpected ones.

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As cool as that would be, there's the issue of her being owned by Squeenix, who just got a fighter in Sephiroth. So far, we haven't double-dipped with a company in the same pass. It's not set-in-stone rule, obviously, but after Seph all the Square Enix reps are in a bit of a grey area, especially with the possibility of them getting Mii'd in Sephiroth's wave.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, most criticism against characters I see are very poor.

It is usually, "THIS CHARACTER ISN'T MY MOST WANTED CHARACTER!", or, "LITERARLLY WHO?"

Just poor and childish arguments.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I don’t quite understand people still nagging about Min Min and Byleth. It was half a year ago. Nothing they’re gonna do about it now.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So you want us to refrain from using "fan rule" because it sounds more concrete and doesn't acknowledge flexible assumptions? "Min Min probably won't get in because she isn't one of the mascot characters for ARMS." "Sephiroth probably won't get in because third-parties have never gotten a second character outside Echoes."

Again, you're getting worked up over a term. Maybe it doesn't sound as respectful as "speculation", but using that word instead doesn't really change the context that much if most people agree with it.

Those are not rules.

That’s literally somebody sharing their opinion, lol.

Also, your examples are disingenuous. Many of the people, myself included, who suggested things like you’re posting would follow up with, “It’s not impossible, but I just don’t think it will happen.” With that added context, it changes the overall tone. Interesting!

Connotation is everything. You’re literally talking to an English teacher. I know these things. The wording does change the meaning if they aren’t legitimately the same thing- calling it a fan rule as opposed to “an opinion” implies one person is trying to dictate what other people say, which hasn’t happened. This is also evident in how you described folks with the quotes you pulled, mind you, in an incomplete manner, to support a narrative that doesn’t exist.

Just saying, you’re wrong about words just being words and not mattering. That’s not how writing works. I grade writing for a living- word choice is very important to the tone and purpose of a piece of writing. Words are not interchangeable simply by existing.

This is like the third time in the last 2 days this conversation has come up, so it’s probably best to stop talking about it so people can actually talk about the game.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

That feeling when you know that Nintendo could bring out the best/most mind blowing character reveal ever for their final DLC and a large part of the fandom is still going to devolve into a complete ****storm because "It wasn't the character I wanted! Sakurai betrayed us!!!"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm gonna do Some Shadow Plugging here, but I Imagine that if Shadow was in this Fighter Pass, I think they might Take the Opposite Approach where Shadow has to Gain his Speed Normally, but he's able to Overwhelm you with Attacks once he gets in. I could see Light Speed Dash and Boost in his moveset, which would allow him to Zip, but they should have their own Consequences. I think people want a More Aggressive Take on Sonic, and if they can't do with Sonic, they could do it with Shadow, who Fits the mold better from a character standpoint anyway

Yeah, it is worth noting that hit n' run is Sonic's typical fighting style in media (and technically in the games as well since you generally don't want to get hit in platformers), so it does kind of make sense that he ended up that way here. As for Shadow though, I could see him having a sort of momentum based kit where you have to master his movement specials to control the character since the DLC characters tend to make them really complicated, but I think it would be more likely that he'd echo Sonic (either Daisy style or King K. Rool style), and just be slower overall in exchange for increased power, and whatever else he gets that Sonic doesn't have.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This rules argument is rotting my brain.

Let's just... drop it and move on.



So since the topic is ARMS, if Min Min were to ever get an echo, who would be the best pick?

 

[SharkLord]

This rules argument is rotting my brain.

Let's just... drop it and move on.



So since the topic is ARMS, if Min Min were to ever get an echo, who would be the best pick?

Ninjara? I'd imagine he learned a couple kicks here and there during his martial arts training.