Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Metal Shop X]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we got many Mii Costume related to Microsoft when Banjo released. Think the only one was Cuphead, right?

 

[N3ON]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we got many Mii Costume related to Microsoft when Banjo released. Think the only one was Cuphead, right?

Cuphead came with Byleth and isn't a Microsoft character, he's owned by Studio MDHR.

But Square characters don't tend to come with content from other companies. Last time Cloud only came with two costumes. There's always a chance precedent breaks, but I don't think people are counting on it.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Cuphead came with Byleth and isn't a Microsoft character, he's owned by Studio MDHR.

But Square characters don't tend to come with content from other companies. Last time Cloud only came with two costumes. There's always a chance precedent breaks, but I don't think people are counting on it.

Ooooh yeah, it was Sans, not Cuphead, who was revealed around Banjo release, my B on that.

Guess we have to see when the time come then.

 

[Deleted member]

Do we know how long the Sephiroth presentation is?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Cacomallow rears its head every couple of months.

Tbf I think I speak for everyone when I say that we want to forget Cacomallow for the rest of our lives

 

[Deleted member]

CACOMALLOW

IS

DEAD!!!!!

 

[Deleted member]

Do we know how long the Sephiroth presentation is?

Roughly 35 minutes

 

[Deleted member]

Roughly 35 minutes

The Min Min presentation was 35 minutes long, and the Steve presentation was 45 minutes.

I think Sephiroth will be pretty complex, but not as complex as Steve.

 

[I.D.]

Trying to deduce complexity from presentation length is pretty pointless

Hero of all characters has the shortest presentation simply because he was the first presentation Sakurai recorded
Terry has the longest due to Sakurai having to give a crash course on SNK and playing through his classic mode

 

[Eldrake]

Tbf I think I speak for everyone when I say that we want to forget Cacomallow for the rest of our lives

Me when a Mallow mii costume is part of Sephiroth's DLC and people uses that as evidence that the cacomallow was real after all even if it looks nothing like in the cacomallow video.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I wonder if the Mii costumes will be all Square related or if we'll get some villain themed ones thrown in the mix too.
Maybe a heavier emphasis on swordsmen Mii outfits?

 

[Nekoo]

You spend all your time on Smashboards you kinda forget Mallow even exists tbh.

Wdym SMRPG isnt a Geno only game?

 

[3BitSaurus]

the existance of safer sephiroth implies a riskier sephiroth.

what does that look like

It's probably just his shirtless alt

 

[osby]

Wdym SMRPG isnt a Geno only game?

This reminds me of the Paper Mario discussion and how some people argued that Geno represents his games as well.

 

[Kokiden]

The presentation is literally tommorow. I have been waiting for this, I am so excited.

What do you think will happen?

It's Wednesday evening here, and I did a double take when I read this lol.

The presentation is 9am Friday my time. Had to remind myself of that haha.

I think Sephy will drop after the presentation. On the same day hopefully.

As for the miis, I don't know. A part of me wants the FF7 cast, but they had difficulty bringing back Cloud, and Sephiroth was expensive I gather. I can only imagine how much negotiation had to be done to allow Tifa, Barret or Aerith's likeness to be used for mii stuff.

I am unsure about music and miis, to put it bluntly.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So we got a skipped Event? Interesting.

If Cuphead is any indication, I think it's for a costume/Spirit that isn't in the game at this time and will be shown in Sephiroth's presentation. If it's Square, my bets would be on Chrono Trigger. If it's an indie, Necrodancer or Hollow Knight. If it's neither... I don't know.

 

[Faso115]

Presentation is happening tomorrow, anyone knows at which time tho?

 

[Staarih]

Presentation is happening tomorrow, anyone knows at which time tho?

2 pm PT
5 pm ET
10 pm GMT
7 am JST (Fri 18th)

 

[dezeray112]

The presentation is literally tommorow. I have been waiting for this, I am so excited.

What do you think will happen?

I do anticipate a lot on Sephiroth's gameplay and I'm certain that there will be a couple of Mii outfits based upon Final Fantasy VII. I just hope that there are more songs that will come along with Sephiroth too.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The enforcers are the people writing walls of text telling you X character (or type of character) is impossible because of "precedent" that most of the time turns out to be random chance.

"Fan rules" is an excellent term because it makes people who are always wrong about this stuff and yet keep acting bizarrely confident about it rage super hard.

Nice try to say that I said characters are, “impossible” but I’ve never said that ever. Others here would agree that’s the case.

I think you’re taking it way too seriously. Nobody has ever told you or others what you can and can’t talk about.

Also, I don’t know why you consistently get aggressive with me but it’s not an interesting personality trait. We’re on an Internet forum for a wacky wahoo party/fighting game. Chill out.

EDIT: Actually, in terms of precedent, the one precedent I mentioned that is STILL STANDING is that first characters added from new series are almost always a mascot or protagonist. Will that get broken? Maybe. But it’s still there.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm kind of hoping that there's one Square Enix costume that no one saw coming showing up in the presentation.

The sheer amount of baffled looks at a "Super Smash Bros x ActRaiser" splash screen would make it entirely worth it.

 

[Deleted member]

Smash fans explaining how Cacomallow is real when Geno becomes a Mii Costume during Sephiroth's presentation:

 

[Kokiden]

For those in the US, what time do DLC characters usually drop in your time zone? Actually, I guess this applies to everyone too, lol.

To everyone, then, has it always been the same time?

7am Japan seems super early for a game presentation. I imagine it's held that early because Sephiroth could possibly be dropping on the same day.

 

[Deleted member]

For those in the US, what time do DLC characters usually drop in your time zone? Actually, I guess this applies to everyone too, lol.

To everyone, then, has it always been the same time?

7am Japan seems super early for a game presentation. I imagine it's held that early because Sephiroth could possibly be dropping on the same day.

DLC usually drops at like 9 PM ET for us Americans.

The only exception to this I believe was Terry, who dropped right after his presentation.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, I think people are mistaking observable precedent for "fan rules" in this case.

Like, I highly doubt they wouldn't choose Nightmare for Soul Calibur. Whether it's the male or female version, they are the hard mascot. Of course, there's the whole protagonist precedent which is fairly active. That said, Min Min is the only notable one because she bends the rule without actually breaking it. She's legitimately a protagonist in a special situation. If she wasn't, that'd be different. She's definitely not the mascot of ARMS, but she's still massively popular and one of the main Developer's favorites. In a way, she's lucky. Nintendo simply wanted to go with a requested character or asked the developer for who should get in, and here we are(either fits exactly what Sakurai said, that Nintendo is choosing the characters. He is not. The idea he asked the developer for who to choose doesn't fit his actual statement whatsoever. He's not given a franchise to work with only, since that would mean he's literally choosing the characters).

On another note, Sephiroth is guaranteed to come with two new songs(new to Smash) at the bare minimum. The only actual things that were not stated as hard rules for Pass 2 in general is that a Spirit Board was not advertised, and that they were Echo-Free. The Spirit Board wasn't even advertised for Pass 1, but the Echo thing is a specific statement for Pass 1 itself. That said, obviously they aren't going to go with an Echo, since we've had literally 8 out of 11 pass characters who are clearly not them. It's pretty obvious by now it applies for Pass 2, despite not being legitimately stated. That said, you already know my stance on getting other FF content(only Chocobo Hat may count, but it's also still a FFVII character by all means and doesn't really make for a good exception to the current situation); highly unlikely. I would consider it plausible to any real degree if Sephiroth wasn't "Super Smash Bros. x FFVII" and we actually got any remote general FF content in the base game or 4. The series set a very clear precedent only one game is intended to be represented. That doesn't mean I'd be disappointed with other costumes. I'd love a Squall Mii Swordifighter, for instance~

Hell, you have over 20 plausible fun costumes for Final Fantasy alone. That's saying something. Will it finally break free from the FFVII mold? Who knows. In one day we'll find out~

 

[Garteam]

Watch Cacomallow be real... but Geno and Doom Slayer are Mii Costumes anyway so it ends up being a moot point.

 

[YoshiandToad]

This reminds me of the Paper Mario discussion and how some people argued that Geno represents his games as well.

In as much as they're both made of wood pulp or...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

For those in the US, what time do DLC characters usually drop in your time zone? Actually, I guess this applies to everyone too, lol.

To everyone, then, has it always been the same time?

7am Japan seems super early for a game presentation. I imagine it's held that early because Sephiroth could possibly be dropping on the same day.

For me, a European, characters typically drop a few hours after the presentation, that usually means at like 2am, with Terry being the exception as his presentation was earlier in the day than usual

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I swear it'll be 5 years after Ultimate's DLC is done with, the next entry being announced, on a brand new Nintendo system... and people will inexplicably bring up CacoMallow in the main speculation thread leading to the exact same discussions, jokes, and references that have been made.

Death, taxes, and CacoMallow; heaven help us all.

 

[Kokiden]

DLC usually drops at like 9 PM ET for us Americans.

The only exception to this I believe was Terry, who dropped right after his presentation.

Thank you.

I hope this is a case of DLC dropping right after the presentation is done. I really want to swing Masamune online and see what happens lol.

I bet online will be filled with shirtless Sephiroth's running around. I mean come on, how many people are going to prefer cloaked Sephy when shirtless and ripped Seph is a thing? xD

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In as much as they're both made of wood pulp or...

It's a silly argument; Geno doesn't, despite SMRPG being the predecessor to the Mario RPG stuff in general. The games blatantly got some ideas from it. Mario & Luigi literally took the "specific button controls" while Paper Mario took the Flower Points. They both have/had Badges and Timed Hits, which are pretty clearly from SMRPG.

Geno does a good job in representing the aspect of Mario RPG stuff in general if his moveset has any focus on timed hits. He doesn't directly represented them otherwise, and wouldn't really be meant to. He's from SMRPG.

Paper Mario, for instance, does clearly borrow from SMRPG(it was originally a sequel), but the character does a lot of stuff that has nothing related to it. The whole paper aesthetic alone(which was there from even the first game, though much more subdued till Sticker Star), but also having some very specific partners with unique abilities. Then there's the Things and other kinds of very specific puzzle-related gameplay(Sticker Star had you remove pieces from the overworld, Color Splash literally had you paint the world and various objects, and The Origami King took a whole new look into alternate universe ideas, while focusing a bit on changing shape and having some callbacks to previous Paper Mario games. The general Origami reshaping is similar to Paper Mario's special abilities outside of combat in The Thousand Year Door). Or in other words, Paper Mario himself is very very different from Geno and Super Mario RPG, but they will always have ties in some ways.

 

[kirbsmash]

I bet online will be filled with shirtless Sephiroth's running around. I mean come on, how many people are going to prefer cloaked Sephy when shirtless and ripped Seph is a thing? xD

Eh, I guess me? I ussally use main colors when I play the game (Does Overalls Wario count?)

 

[Kokiden]

Eh, I guess me? I ussally use main colors when I play the game (Does Overalls Wario count?)

But he's so shredded!

That does nothing for you? D=

Jokes aside, I'm not a fan of his alt colours. I wish the red and blue colours were darker (OK I actually wish they looked similar to Dante and Vergil's coats lol).

 

[Momotsuki]

I wake up, I see Cacomallow discussion and I just want to go back to bed.

 

[kirbsmash]

That does nothing for you? D=

It does but there's so much hot buff men to go for I kinda got used to it.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Tomorrow is the day to see if 2B is a Mii or if she will live on. If she is a Mii, I hope she comes with music. I would be hurt if I did not get one of these two songs in smash.

or

 

[I.D.]

Yeah, I think people are mistaking observable precedent for "fan rules" in this case.

Honest question: what's the difference? Observable "precedent" has fallen flat on its face completely time and time again. People are reduced to arguing that Min Min only bends it instead of actually breaking it. And that's not getting into stuff like Byleth and Sephiroth. I could use the search function and in 15 minutes come back with a huge wall of shame of posts absolutely certain characters like those simply wouldn't happen because of rules... sorry, because of observable precedent that as it turns out never actually meant anything.

I'm not trying to demean anyone by the way. After all, I myself was very, VERY adamant that games with representation in the base game would NOT get a character and that blew up in my face spectacularly. The reason I'm so against this is nothing more than me recognizing it for what it is: an extremely flawed method for speculation. It also bothers me immensely that people try to equate speculation with merely noticing patterns and stuff, like there's nothing more to it, and that if you make fun of that you are somehow against the very purpose of this thread.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Tomorrow is the day to see if 2B is a Mii or if she will live on. If she is a Mii, I hope she comes with music. I would be hurt if I did not get one of these two songs in smash.

or

To be fair I doubt 2B will happen even if she's not a mii. I really doubt they would go with another Square characters when there's only 3 spot left. Maybe if there's a third pass somehow, but I this point I doubt it. At this point I would actually like to see her as a mii, so at least Nier would have a small representation. Maybe they could do a spirit event after that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honest question: what's the difference? Observable "precedent" has fallen flat on its face completely time and time again. People are reduced to arguing that Min Min only bends it instead of actually breaking it. And that's not getting into stuff like Byleth and Sephiroth. I could use the search function and in 15 minutes come back with a huge wall of shame of posts absolutely certain characters like those simply wouldn't happen because of rules... sorry, because of observable precedent that as it turns out never actually meant anything.

I'm not trying to demean anyone by the way. After all, I myself was very, VERY adamant that games with representation in the base game would NOT get a character and that blew up in my face spectacularly. The reason I'm so against this is nothing more than me recognizing it for what it is: an extremely flawed method for speculation. It also bothers me immensely that people try to equate speculation with merely noticing patterns and stuff, like there's nothing more to it, and that if you make fun of that you are somehow against the very purpose of this thread.

The difference is pretty simple;

"It can only happen this way" is a fan rule. Observable Precedent simply means "I'm doubting it done differently, but I won't deny it being possible".

Fan rules are used to shut down speculation. All the idea that AT's are impossible to ever upgrade to playable in the same game, or Spirits, for two good examples. Precedent is just giving a reasonable argument based upon why you doubt something. Let me note a quick example from myself; I knew Isabelle would not be an Echo. She literally lacked the same bodyshape as Villager, making it impossible. The rest of them were literally the same bodyshape(with at best, inches of differences). I won't go much into it, or brag, etc. I just observed something clear about Echoes(due to an official statement about them), but overall agreed that beyond bodyshape, it's not clear. I.E. things like weight, stats, etc. Now do note that Ken shook up speculation later on, which really made us question if anything beyond "same bodyshape" mattered. Especially with Dr. Mario in, who is not an Echo. It's an odd thing.

I've noted a lot of times why AT's and Spirits are not impossible too. Here's another good example;

"Spirits already have a role, therefore, they blatantly cannot be playable." This is an outright fan rule. Because it's not about doubt, it's about trying to shut down anything that supports them.

"Spirits were in base game, so I doubt they're in Pass 1 since Pass 1 was probably chosen with them in mind." This is observable precedent, since it also comes with the point that relates to AT's, as we never saw an AT get promoted in 4. The same logic is being used here to doubt it.

"Spirits shown in Pass 1 totally cannot be playable in Pass 2". This is still a case of a fan rule. However, most times people just mean it as an observable precedent, since it's pretty much like the above paragraph. A few will try to treat it like a fan rule, though. Others will think "wait, why was it chosen that way".

"AT's cannot be playable. They already have an in-game role." Definitely a fan rule, in the specific way it's stated here.

"AT's already have an in-game role. I doubt they'll change that for DLC." Observable precedent, again, from Smash 4. Even if it's literally "one case", that's still a precedent set that people will use to figure out how the game's roster will be chosen.

You can apply things to Mii Costumes too, Trophies in Smash 4(which note that the only Trophies that got playable were actually veterans. It's one of the more silly arguments, since Trophies don't even have a gameplay role and are just a model. Spirits may be "just a jpeg", but they do affect gameplay, making it a somewhat different situation).

I hope that clears it up. There's more examples, but that should give you the idea either way.

 

[Kokiden]

It does but there's so much hot buff men to go for I kinda got used to it.

Other than mature Ike, who else is there?

I guess Cloud counts in a way? No but seriously, who? Lol because I'm wracking my brain and coming up blanks.

Tomorrow is the day to see if 2B is a Mii or if she will live on. If she is a Mii, I hope she comes with music. I would be hurt if I did not get one of these two songs in smash.

or

Imagine having Sound of the End, Wretched Weaponry, and A Beautiful Song in smash... my god lol.