Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[AinsOoalGown]

I... don't think so. He does go all static-y in Earthbound, but I've never thought of that as a defining element of him. And - while I know a lot of people underestimate how many characters could actually work in Smash - there's no way that version of him could work as a fighter.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it seems like a regular occurrence that people see how creepy Giygas is and then like to staple other creepy stuff onto him that has no actual connection, which always annoys me. You see this sort of thing with other characters too. Actually, Missingno is another example of this - I've seen people associate it with a whole bunch of reality-warping eldritch-abomination concepts, when really the most it does is mess up the Hall of Fame and give you way more of the sixth item in your bag.

I was thinking maybe he has the Mother 1 design but for some of his specials he makes reference to his arguably more iconic role in 2, doing visually "glitchy" things would be the closest way to represent it I imagine as him turning into the background wouldnt work.

Missigno indeed shouldnt have "creepy" things since its not an actual character, but an actual glitch that was never aknowledged

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I was thinking maybe he has the Mother 1 design but for some of his specials he makes reference to his arguably more iconic role in 2, doing visually "glitchy" things would be the closest way to represent it I imagine as him turning into the background wouldnt work.

Missigno indeed shouldnt have "creepy" things since its not an actual character, but an actual glitch that was never aknowledged

The problem is that Gigas isn't glitchy so much as he's abstract. He's not a 4th wall kind of horror, he's meant to be something you literally cannot comprehend, and it gets worse the more he deteriorates, and the Devil's Machine breaks down.

EDIT: To put it another way, he's cosmic horror, not technological.

Side Note: Devil's Machine is an amazing SSF2 stage, and I want it in an official Smash game.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Nintendo risking it all this year by having select $26.99 games at GameStop Black Friday including Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Splatoon 2, & more pic.twitter.com/aFAFtYeVUs

— Wario64 (@Wario64) November 21, 2020

Nintendo is dying
They will never recover from this!

Someone call Phil Sencer to save nintendo!

 

[AinsOoalGown]

EDIT: To put it another way, he's cosmic horror, not technological.

I meant to say "glitchy" in a visual way, not an actual glitch in its lore. Maybe glitchy isnt really the best word to describe it. I'm not sure what the ideal wording would be though, something like what Marx does kind of, but more "ethereal" looking, a bit like Taboo maybe.

 

[PeridotGX]

Nintendo risking it all this year by having select $26.99 games at GameStop Black Friday including Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Splatoon 2, & more pic.twitter.com/aFAFtYeVUs

— Wario64 (@Wario64) November 21, 2020

Nintendo is dying
They will never recover from this!

Someone call Phil Sencer to save nintendo!

Lifelong Nintendo gamer who is going to get a PS5, I was genuinely shocked when I saw that Playstation games actually become less expensive over time.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Nintendo risking it all this year by having select $26.99 games at GameStop Black Friday including Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Splatoon 2, & more pic.twitter.com/aFAFtYeVUs

— Wario64 (@Wario64) November 21, 2020

Nintendo is dying
They will never recover from this!

Someone call Phil Sencer to save nintendo!

He can't. He's too busy trying to buy Sega.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

So, to go back to the question: How would you ideally design counters?

Incineroar's revenge is a good place to start, since it works well, possibly too well depending on who you ask. Revenge is active on frames 3-27, with 22 frames of cooldown. Compare that to Marth's, which is active on frames 6-27, with 37 frames of cooldown. Ike is even worse, being active on frames 9-33, with 40 frames of cooldown.

For reference, in Blazblue Central Fiction (a game similar enough in frame data), Hakumen's regular counter is active from frame 6-20. He can hold the counter to extend the active frames (up to frame 40) and then he has 40 frames of lag if he whiffs. Interestingly, that's the same cooldown as Ike's counter, but has shorter startup and a more flexible counter window. He also has other counters that start on frame 1.

Human reaction time, from what I can find, is at least 9 frames. I believe Ultimate's input buffer is about 6 frames offline. That means that in Ultimate you need to see an attack 15 frames in advance to react with a frame 1 option. A frame 6 option needs 21 frames, which is about the amount the same amount of time as Ganon's up-Smash. So Marth's counter can't be used on reaction to the beginning hit of Ganon's up-smash unless you expect it's coming beforehand and can skip some of the brainwork.

This has all been a long-winded way to say I'd reduce the startup a bit. A 4-5 frame startup would probably be ideal, and maybe reduce the knockback growth so they don't become an overpowered kill option. I also wouldn't be opposed if they were given a flat damage output instead of a multiplier.

 

[Perkilator]

11月21日は、任天堂の大型タイトルが数多く出た日。
代表的なものは『ゼルダの伝説 時のオカリナ』。
ほかにもスーパーファミコン、『マリオワールド』や『F-ZERO』、『ポケモン金銀』、『スマブラDX』など…
『パンチアウト』『神々のトライフォース』『マリオ3Dワールド』などもそう。 pic.twitter.com/pxv0o4MVKs

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 21, 2020

Sakurai’s new POTD acknowledging the many anniversaries today.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

11月21日は、任天堂の大型タイトルが数多く出た日。
代表的なものは『ゼルダの伝説 時のオカリナ』。
ほかにもスーパーファミコン、『マリオワールド』や『F-ZERO』、『ポケモン金銀』、『スマブラDX』など…
『パンチアウト』『神々のトライフォース』『マリオ3Dワールド』などもそう。 pic.twitter.com/pxv0o4MVKs

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 21, 2020

A ton of anniversaries today it seems like

’d

 

[SneakyLink]

11月21日は、任天堂の大型タイトルが数多く出た日。
代表的なものは『ゼルダの伝説 時のオカリナ』。
ほかにもスーパーファミコン、『マリオワールド』や『F-ZERO』、『ポケモン金銀』、『スマブラDX』など…
『パンチアウト』『神々のトライフォース』『マリオ3Dワールド』などもそう。 pic.twitter.com/pxv0o4MVKs

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 21, 2020

Sakurai’s new POTD acknowledging the many anniversaries today.

The one in the pic is Ocarina of Time.

Some of the others mentioned include the SNES (and Mario World and F-Zero), Pokémon Gold and Silver, Melee, Mario 3D World, LTTP... I could go a while.

 

[7NATOR]

Hot take, But I Actually do Like Little Mac's Design And I think it fits him well

Little Mac does feel like Little Mac. You can still do Bait and Punish with him, because he has Ridiculous Frame data and Good Movement Speed and Long Dodges. He's Quick to Punish you if you Do Something Unsafe, which is kind of how Punch out Works. Analyzing your opponent, and punishing them when they are Vulnerable

But Little Mac also works in representing Punch out as a whole, Including the Intimidating Boxers of the game. This is reflected in How Much Damage and Knockback he does, along with having Super Armor on his Smash attacks

Personally, If you made it so his Aerials Complement his Ground Game (Like maybe hitting them drags the Opponent to the Ground), and perhaps give them better Reach or something to counter Platform Camping, I Think Little Mac would be good

 

[Wunderwaft]

Lifelong Nintendo gamer who is going to get a PS5, I was genuinely shocked when I saw that Playstation games actually become less expensive over time.

Not just Playstation. Xbox and PC games also get price cuts as time passes. MHW was sold for $60 at Steam when it first released and after a year and a half later the price is cut permanently to $30. Nintendo is pretty much the only major company that refuses to budge on lowering the price of any of their games as time passes.

 

[MooMew64]

Not just Playstation. Xbox and PC games also get price cuts as time passes. MHW was sold for $60 at Steam when it first released and after a year and a half later the price is cut permanently to $30. Nintendo is pretty much the only major company that refuses to budge on lowering the price of any of their games as time passes.

If I'm remembering correctly, it's actually a straight up company policy: They believe if they cut a game's price permanently, it diminishes the value of the product and signifies it's of "lesser quality", or something like that.

Basically, Nintendo pullin' a Disney again: You pay for a brand tax, lol. It's why stuff like the Link's Awakening remake and Mario 3D All-Stars are $60.

 

[Perkilator]

11月21日は、任天堂の大型タイトルが数多く出た日。
代表的なものは『ゼルダの伝説 時のオカリナ』。
ほかにもスーパーファミコン、『マリオワールド』や『F-ZERO』、『ポケモン金銀』、『スマブラDX』など…
『パンチアウト』『神々のトライフォース』『マリオ3Dワールド』などもそう。 pic.twitter.com/pxv0o4MVKs

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 21, 2020

A ton of anniversaries today it seems like

’d

I did it

I 'd Rie

 

[SharkLord]

How to make Little Mac a better character in two easy steps:

1. Give him actual aerials
2. Give him actual recovery

There. He's looking much healthier already.

On that note, I'm interested in a different take on a ground focused fighter. Little Mac was crippled by his lack of any aerial utility, so maybe we can give them a trade-off instead of a death sentence. For example, their ground attacks are strong, but they have great mobility in the air, so their playstyle is drifting from place to place until they can get into an advantageous position. Alternatively, they have great ground control but not much strength, while their aerials are clunky but powerful.

My idea for Isaac falls into the latter category. His ground game is built around shoving the opponent around with Psynergy, such as Move and Quake, while his aerials are awkward and clunky, since he's a young warrior out of his element. Despite this, his flailing can still take a chunk out of you if you're not careful. Also I gave him a pseudo-tether down air to get back on the stage, so he's not screwed as soon as you get him in the air. Plus, he has actual aerials and actual recovery, unlike Little Mac.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Since shield-B is now an input, Kirby should be updated so he can remove the copied abilities by shield-B instead of taunting.

EDIT: speaking of special taunts, it would be nice if one of Young Link's taunts let him pick up the ocarina and by pressing the d-pad buttons you were able to select several notes and play it (the taunt would end if you don't input a note for long enough).

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I did it

I 'd Rie

T'is a fitting day for Ninjas.

 

[PacificFun]

I know this is fake asf but man, imagine!

 

[DarthEnderX]

How to make Little Mac a better character in two easy steps:

1. Give him actual aerials
2. Give him actual recovery

3. Get rid of all stages except King of Fighters.

 

[Cosmic77]

Been playing a lot of AoC, and it's reaffirmed my belief from all the way back in 2017 that any of the Champions would be perfect for Smash.

Don't know if they'll ever pick up enough support to be popular requests, but I hope one of them gets in some day. If not this game, then maybe the next.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How to make Little Mac a better character in two easy steps:

1. Give him actual aerials
2. Give him actual recovery

There. He's looking much healthier already.

On that note, I'm interested in a different take on a ground focused fighter. Little Mac was crippled by his lack of any aerial utility, so maybe we can give them a trade-off instead of a death sentence. For example, their ground attacks are strong, but they have great mobility in the air, so their playstyle is drifting from place to place until they can get into an advantageous position. Alternatively, they have great ground control but not much strength, while their aerials are clunky but powerful.

My idea for Isaac falls into the latter category. His ground game is built around shoving the opponent around with Psynergy, such as Move and Quake, while his aerials are awkward and clunky, since he's a young warrior out of his element. Despite this, his flailing can still take a chunk out of you if you're not careful. Also I gave him a pseudo-tether down air to get back on the stage, so he's not screwed as soon as you get him in the air. Plus, he has actual aerials and actual recovery, unlike Little Mac.

Honestly, Little Mac is so fun because he's so darn different.

Yeah, his current design makes him competitively limp. But he has so many fans because he's just so much fun.

If you take away his unique feel, you risk homogenizing the character.

 

[PeridotGX]

I really want Revali.

not because he's a character I like, but because he's bootleg Decidueye and that's never happening so I'll take the bootleg.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They can't just pick a Champion. Smash has proven time and time again that it only sticks to strict hierarchies. ( HKDAAABTHH! Excuse me!)

Because picking one is simply impossible, they're going to have to force a compromise.

They're going to include a brand new Zelda character and its the entirety of Breath of the Wild.

As in the game. In its case.

Main costume is the Switch version, with the Wii U version as an alt.

It's final smash is winning GOTY 2017... again.

 

[Shroob]

They can't just pick a Champion. Smash has proven time and time again that it only sticks to strict hierarchies. ( HKDAAABTHH! Excuse me!)

Because picking one is simply impossible, they're going to have to force a compromise.

They're going to include a brand new Zelda character and its the entirety of Breath of the Wild.

As in the game. In its case.

Main costume is the Switch version, with the Wii U version as an alt.

It's final smash is winning GOTY 2017... again.

Wario, Yoshi, DDD and Kirby have a negative matchup.

Because Switch games taste bad.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wario, Yoshi, DDD and Kirby have a negative matchup.

Because Switch games taste bad.

It has a positive matchup against every character because Super Smash Bros. Ultimate did not win GOTY.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It has a positive matchup against every character because Super Smash Bros. Ultimate did not win GOTY.

This does mean Byleth can fight it with ease as it got 2 awards last year, one of those being GOTY but by player choice instead of a predetermined list

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This does mean Byleth can fight it with ease as it got 2 awards last year, one of those being GOTY but by player choice instead of a predetermined list

No, because the arbitrary judges hold more power than the fans.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No, because the arbitrary judges hold more power than the fans.

I only really paid attention last year so I just looked it up and you're right, it got 3 awards over 3H's 2

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Nintendo risking it all this year by having select $26.99 games at GameStop Black Friday including Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Splatoon 2, & more pic.twitter.com/aFAFtYeVUs

— Wario64 (@Wario64) November 21, 2020

Nintendo is dying
They will never recover from this!

Someone call Phil Sencer to save nintendo!

Joke aside, if anyone didn't get Fire emblem three houses now is the time (as far as I'm aware it's the first time it's going on sale). This game is amazing (and I'm normally not a fan of tactical rpg).

Lifelong Nintendo gamer who is going to get a PS5, I was genuinely shocked when I saw that Playstation games actually become less expensive over time.

Personally, I basically just buy Nintendo game at launch and for the ps4 I just wait a bit with some exceptions. Sometimes you just have to wait a few months for playstation games to drop price. Like right now on the ps store (american one at least), most of the big 2020 titles are on sales like FF7 remake, Doom eternal, Ghost of Tsushima, Tlou 2 etc. I was personally planning to get 13 sentinel aegis rim and granblue fantasy versus (both are on sale too right now and released this year).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also my local gaming store cut me a deal on 3H at launch which made the game even cheaper than that deal. Nintendo's a ****ing embarrasment lmao

 

[Shroob]

Lifelong Nintendo gamer who is going to get a PS5, I was genuinely shocked when I saw that Playstation games actually become less expensive over time.

Have you seen what happens on Steam by chance?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I personally don't mind most Nintendo games being 60 bucks because they're usually worth the price.

What REALLY gets me though, is that there's rarely any sales.

Like even if you don't want to lower the base price, at least have a sale every once in a while.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I personally don't mind most Nintendo games being 60 bucks because they're usually worth the price.

Idk man

selling you a 2 hour minigame collection for the same price as BOTW is pretty insane

 

[Commander_Alph]

Infamous smash troll on twitter. He’ll flame you if your wanted list consists of anyone except any of the following: Geno, Rayman, Shantae, Sora. He’s been banned from twitter before, in fact, for straight up telling people to off themselves

I've seen him before but his troll tweet isn't even that annoying anymore cause I already found myself a person on Twitter that, to be honest is much more worst than Terry Syverston, called SuptheGamer. His status is not that famous but he's especially known for his hotheaded attitude, always insult and quoting everyone because his opinion is superior and blocking them right after and labeling them as troll.

 

[Perkilator]

Idk man

selling you a 2 hour minigame collection for the same price as BOTW is pretty insane

You mean Melody of Memory? It’s technically longer than 2 hours if you wanna 100% everything.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You mean Melody of Memory? It’s technically longer than 2 hours if you wanna 100% everything.

I'm pretty sure that was referring to 1 2 Switch

 

[ShotoStar]

Speaking of 1 2 Switch this just came to mind but I'm surprised we didn't get any content from 1 2 Switch in base. Although you obviously wouldn't get a character it could've been something as like a spirit or a music track, maybe even an Assist Trophy if you really wanna push it.

Some might say it would be weird for the game to get content cause it's too small of a title or it's too weird or whatever but there's already a lot of spirits from games nobody would've thought about like the iconic, absolute phenomenon Girl from Hajimari no Mori who was turned into a spirit.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Speaking of 1 2 Switch this just came to mind but I'm surprised we didn't get any content from 1 2 Switch in base. Although you obviously wouldn't get a character it could've been something as like a spirit or a music track, maybe even an Assist Trophy if you really wanna push it.

Some might say it would be weird for the game to get content cause it's too small of a title or it's too weird or whatever but there's already a lot of spirits from games nobody would've thought about like the iconic, absolute phenomenon Girl from Hajimari no Mori who was turned into a spirit.

I think the issue is that all the characters from 1-2 Switch are all real people.

They aren't even cartoon versions like Kawashima. They're just pictures of real people.

 

[Perkilator]

I think the issue is that all the characters from 1-2 Switch are all real people.

They aren't even cartoon versions like Kawashima. They're just pictures of real people.

Even ignoring that, I guess 1 2 Switch was so bad that even Nintendo wants to disown it in the name of its (much better) brother that they love more.

 

[ShotoStar]

I think the issue is that all the characters from 1-2 Switch are all real people.

They aren't even cartoon versions like Kawashima. They're just pictures of real people.

Yeah, I guess that is true but there's no real rule against that. Things just have to originate from a Video Game and those specific images do come from a Video Game.