Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Lamperouge]

I vote for her Skyward Sword iteration. Impa's Skyward Sword design is the version used in Hyrule Warriors and we need Skyward Sword representation.

That's not the version used in HW, though. Maybe her design takes a few influences from her look in SS but it's still very different.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually, Something I wonder is does Sakurai plan the Moveset before or After the Character is decided?

 

[KillerCage]

Problem is, Sakurai wants them to play exactly like they do in their original games with as little liberties as possible, or else we would've gotten Heihachi in Smash4, but since Tekken doesn't have the kind of over the top aerial action Smash has (it's almost non-existent) and thus killing half of his moveset, it never happened.

Nothing 100% comfirmed, but it's really the only reason I see why he would think Heihachi as difficult to implement.

I have always believed Heihachi would never be in Smash as a fighter.
I feel he is too similar to Ryu and Terry without becoming super-complicated.
I think Tekken's four limb combat system is too complex adapt for Smash.
Sol and Ragna are much easier to adapt (Dragon Install for Sol, Soul Eater for Ragna)
Nightmare might be doable, but I'm not familiar with Soulcalibur.

 

[Perkilator]

Actually, Something I wonder is does Sakurai plan the Moveset before or After the Character is decided?

Definitely after.

 

[7NATOR]

Definitely after.

I'm going to at least Assume Sakurai at least has an Idea of what the Character could do

It would be Trouble some if the Character was decided on, but then it turns out making their moveset is more Trouble than Expected (Which could have happened with Steve before FP2)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They do

Not in vanilla, which is what they'd be based off of. And, unless you made them a transformation character (which isn't viable for DLC), Mythra wouldn't be able to do this stuff anyway because Rex wields her weapon. Same thing with Pyra, but she isn't even playable in the DLC.

So no, Rex & Pyra/Mythra would not be a puppet fighter in the same vein as the Ice Climbers or Rosalina & Luma.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Would Shantae count as a transformation character?

 

[7NATOR]

Would Shantae count as a transformation character?

Depends

If The animal Tranformations are just Apart of her regular attacks, then she'd be as much of a Transformation characters as Corrin for example is

If we're talking Completely new Movesets (or at least Semi-Moveset), with their own properties and such, or just different stats to the Character, then she would count as Transformation character

And actually now that Transformation characters are brought up, What is Pokemon Trainer considered as honestly? Is he a Transformation character, a Stance change Character, etc?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Would Shantae count as a transformation character?

I'd imagine her transformations would have fairly limited movesets due to the number of them, so in that sense, she'd be more of a stance character.

And actually now that Transformation characters are brought up, What is Pokemon Trainer considered as honestly? Is he a Transformation character, a Stance change Character, etc?

Transformation.

 

[PeridotGX]

Actually, Something I wonder is does Sakurai plan the Moveset before or After the Character is decided?

he probably thinks of the broad strokes, confirms the character, and then conceptualizes the moveset.

 

[SharkLord]

Problem is, Sakurai wants them to play exactly like they do in their original games with as little liberties as possible, or else we would've gotten Heihachi in Smash4, but since Tekken doesn't have the kind of over the top aerial action Smash has (it's almost non-existent) and thus killing half of his moveset, it never happened.

Nothing 100% comfirmed, but it's really the only reason I see why he would think Heihachi as difficult to implement.

I just assumed it was because Tekken characters have like 60 different moves AT MINUMUM. If there's any moveset that's going to be difficult to adapt, it's Tekken.

 

[I.D.]

Not in vanilla

Still wrong

Pyra

"I have a request. Can you...take me to Elysium?" — Pyra Pyra (Japanese: ホムラ, Homura; English dub: /ˈpaɪ(ə)rə/) is one of the female protagonists in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. She is the Aegis, a Legendary Blade who can grant tremendous fire-elemental power to her Driver, Rex. Pyra and Rex embark...

xenoblade.fandom.com

Some of the attacks used by Mythra in the same video I posted are used by Pyra in the base game even.

which is what they'd be based off of

Characters can and do take attributes from multiple games.

(which isn't viable for DLC)

Hero has over 30 different special moves, Steve made them reprogram all stages to accommodate him and his crafting gimmick. What seems non-viable for DLC at this point is probably very little, especially when they have given themselves 2 years to make 6 characters.

Mythra wouldn't be able to do this stuff anyway because Rex wields her weapon. Same thing with Pyra, but she isn't even playable in the DLC.

They pass the weapon to each other.

So no, Rex & Pyra/Mythra would not be a puppet fighter in the same vein as the Ice Climbers or Rosalina & Luma.

I agree, Sakurai has proven himself quite imaginative with Ultimate's DLC, I'm sure he would give us a unique take instead of recycling stuff.

 

[7NATOR]

To be Fair, Steve is from Best selling game in the World, and Hero is Phenomenon in Japan.

I Mean Rex can still get in, but his complicated mechanics could be something against him, especially if there are other FP2 Candidates for Slots. Same deal I have with Dante

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

To be Fair, Steve is from Best selling game in the World, and Hero is Phenomenon in Japan.

I Mean Rex can still get in, but his complicated mechanics could be something against him, especially if there are other FP2 Candidates for Slots. Same deal I have with Dante

They're probably not the main reason they're picked, but complicated mechanics seems to be a pretty consistent marketing point for the DLC as of current.

Heck, the two characters we've got in vol 2 thus far are probably the most unSmash-like characters we've ever gotten

 

[SharkLord]

They're probably not the main reason they're picked, but complicated mechanics seems to be a pretty consistent marketing point for the DLC as of current.

Heck, the two characters we've got in vol 2 are probably the most unSmash-like characters we've ever gotten

Complex movesets just seem to be what Sakurai does. He looks at the character, he goes "Alright, how can I make them fun?", and he goes wild with it.

 

[7NATOR]

They're probably not the main reason they're picked, but complicated mechanics seems to be a pretty consistent marketing point for the DLC as of current.

Heck, the two characters we've got in vol 2 are probably the most unSmash-like characters we've ever gotten

I get that, But that doesn't automatically mean every Complicated mechanic will get in

What I mean is that every Complicated mechanic has it's own issues and such, Some more than others. Now We don't know which Mechanics are too intensive for FP2 as we're not the ones Developing the game, and that's why I say Rex and Dante, Even though I think they won't be playable in FP2 and both are very complicated, they still are likely characters

But There's a Balance though with the Character and Moveset. We know that Characters like Heihachi, Mach Rider, and Chorus Kids were considered, but dropped, and I bet a major factor in all of these was complications with movesets, So Not every Complicated mechanic is easy to Transition as another.

and it depends on the character too. the Character has to be worthwhile of an Option to drop development time on them, like if Mach Rider was Nintendo's Best selling I.P, I think Sakurai could find a way to make it work perhaps, but considering he's irrelevant it's an harder Sell. Steve and Hero are massivly popular, so despite how Intensive their development was, they were worthwhile. It's also something to note that Steve was easy to Animate, had his Model Ported from Minecraft, and sound design was easy. Hero re-used assets from Other Sword Characters like Link

So While I still think Rex and Dante have shots, There are other Characters to be considered as well, some might have easier to Transition Movesets, along with being more popular, requested, or benefitting Nintendo more than these 2. That's what I Mean

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

Sorry to butt in here, I gotta add an implausible theory here.

Western Developers, the big ones that Support the Switch are Activision, Take-Two, Bethesda and WB Games. Now all 4 of them probably won't get a character but i think Activision and Bethesda (Now Microsoft 2) can get fighters in.

Actvision: Crash or Tracer, they seem like the most likely picks from that company, although Spyro is the one i'd like to see.

Take-Two: GTA and Red Dead aren't on Switch so I'd wager, That the chracter is either Borderlands, Bioshock or Civilization. I'm personally betting on a Civilization fighter, as that series pioneered the Stratagey game genre

Bethesda (Another Microsoft Character): Doom Guy

WB games: This one is harder and a bit more implausible, Scorpion would be the most likely, but due to MK's status in Japan, that doesn't seem likely. Chas McCain seems like the most plausible choice, as he debuted in a Video Game, So there's that. And in Darth Revan like territory we have The Arkham Night but he's very implausible.

Now i think instead of WB Games, we will get Fortnite Jonsey, Master Chief or a Japanese Character like a Falcom or Koei Techmo character.

(Ubisoft i did not forget about but Ezio and Rayman are already in the game)

 

[PeridotGX]

WB games: This one is harder and a bit more implausible, Scorpion would be the most likely, but due to MK's status in Japan, that doesn't seem likely. Chas McCain seems like the most plausible choice, as he debuted in a Video Game, So there's that. And in Darth Revan like territory we have The Arkham Night but he's very implausible.

he had an official crossover with Mario, Zelda, and Batman, and this is all the attention he gets?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Would Shantae count as a transformation character?

She probably wouldn't have all her transformations due to limitations but I would imagine she'd get some of her animal transformations.

So no, Rex & Pyra/Mythra would not be a puppet fighter in the same vein as the Ice Climbers or Rosalina & Luma.

I always envisioned Rex playing like Pokemon Trainer. Pyra and Mythra

Spoiler

Maybe Nia as well

would be in the background while Rex fights with his Down B switching to any of them.

 

[Cosmic77]

Regardless of how popular Steve's game is, I don't think that alone is responsible for how complicated his moveset is. I also doubt less popular characters can't be complicated too.

Can anyone seriously see Sakurai saying, "Nah, this pre-selected character isn't very popular. I think I can get away with something easier."

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

the real transformation character we all deserve is a Wario with a moveset derived from Wario Land, particularly 2 and 3

 

[7NATOR]

So Why do you guys think Resident Evil was just reduced to Spirits?

 

[Megadoomer]

So Why do you guys think Resident Evil was just reduced to Spirits?

The second Fighters Pass might have already been decided on by that point, so maybe they thought it would be a way to acknowledge the series even if it wasn't getting a character. (assuming that they had already decided on who was getting in when they announced that more DLC fighters were coming in September 2019 - hard to believe that was the last proper Direct that we've had)

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So Why do you guys think Resident Evil was just reduced to Spirits?

Chris accidently punched a boulder onto Sakurai's house.

 

[KillerCage]

So Why do you guys think Resident Evil was just reduced to Spirits?

Sakurai couldn't get his hands on one of these.

 

[SpectreJordan]

So Why do you guys think Resident Evil was just reduced to Spirits?

I have a couple ideas:

1.) The Resident Evil series was considered too gory/mature to be given the “Fighter spotlight”. I hope this isn’t it as it’d be really lame on Nintendo’s part & rules other cool series too.

2.) Capcom & Nintendo decided to go with another character for promotional or moveset reasons.

3.) Capcom just isn’t getting another character

 

[Perkilator]

1.) The Resident Evil was considered too gory/mature to be given the “Fighter spotlight”. I hope this isn’t it as it’d be really lame on Nintendo’s part & rules other cool series too.

I think we can blame CERO for that if Mai "not for good boys and girls of all ages" Shiranui was too inappropriate for them.

 

[ahemtoday]

This seems like a very limitting perspective, tbh.
Min Min isn't a stance change character, but a new weapon is too much?

Well, look, if you give a character two completely different weapons, say, a sword and nunchucks, and their stances change between them - which is a setup that I feel like I see frequently in fan movesets, although I'm not sure where that impression came from - then obviously they have to have two entirely different sets of attacks, right? At that point, they're basically a transformation character in all but model.

If a character switched between three different swords or something, that'd be fine because you wouldn't have to learn three characters, or think about two movesets you don't want to use in addition to the one you do.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Square celebrating lots of Tomb Raider Anniversaries back to back!

Can you believe it’s been 23 years since we saw the incredible Lara Croft embarking on a journey to investigate the Dagger of Xian? 🗡️ Where were you when you first played @TombRaider II? pic.twitter.com/Xb4mqRu8b9

— Square Enix (@SquareEnix) November 21, 2020

 

[SharkLord]

So Why do you guys think Resident Evil was just reduced to Spirits?

Good question. Let's spitball:

• Another Capcom Character - Perhaps someone like Dante or Phoenix was planned instead, and Nintendo didn't want Capcom to get too much control over the pass or something.
• Aesthetic Overlap - Another realistic firearm user could've been planned for the pass, like Lara Croft, and Nintendo might've wanted to avoid any overlap. Sure, we got three anime-esque RPG protagonists, but they all had visually distinct styles and designs. Maybe Nintendo felt that multiple realistic humans with guns would be too much.
• Age Rating - As other have stated, Resident Evil is a pretty gory series. Nintendo might have felt that they couldn't represent the series properly with it's violence, and left it out.
• There is no Capcom rep in FP2 - Speaks for itself, really.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hero has over 30 different special moves, Steve made them reprogram all stages to accommodate him and his crafting gimmick. What seems non-viable for DLC at this point is probably very little, especially when they have given themselves 2 years to make 6 characters.

The reason why it's not viable is because a transformation character would add a 7th and/or 8th character to the lineup. I would otherwise agree with you.

They pass the weapon to each other.

This wouldn't allow them to attack simultaneously, leaving one of them defenseless for the majority of the match. Thus, I think giving them a hurtbox for the entire match would only be annoying to deal with for a Rex & Pyra/Mythra player, and annoying to fight against for everyone else, especially if they don't do anything besides their specials. This is what I was talking about.

I always envisioned Rex playing like Pokemon Trainer. Pyra and Mythra...would be in the background while Rex fights with his Down B switching to any of them.

I think Pyra and Mythra should be on the stage with Rex. The whole game is about working together with the Blades, and while they may not fight directly most of the time, they do still do stuff. They should at least be on standby for their Blade Specials, which they couldn't be if they were all the way in the back with Red.

1.) The Resident Evil was considered too gory/mature to be given the “Fighter spotlight”. I hope this isn’t it as it’d be really lame on Nintendo’s part & rules other cool series too.

I don't think that's the case honestly. Nobody's scantily clad, and gore can pretty easily be removed by not having zombies get torn apart upon death and not using any of the particularly gross designs.

The only issue they'd run into (that I can think of) is if rifles were allowed to be shown, but not fired, which would be pretty stupid. Even then though, I don't think the character would need a rifle. They've got all sorts of other things from knives to rocket launchers. I'd imagine they'd be able to make do without rifles specifically, especially if consumer level weapons are allowed such as hunting rifles.

Well, look, if you give a character two completely different weapons, say, a sword and nunchucks, and their stances change between them - which is a setup that I feel like I see frequently in fan movesets...

I need to know who the heck this would be for because that sounds awesome.

...then obviously they have to have two entirely different sets of attacks, right? At that point, they're basically a transformation character in all but model.

So it's less that "it wouldn't work" and more that you wouldn't like it. OK. I don't think this is typically what is posed, but do keep in mind that certain weapon master type characters could just equip their special moves and leave their normals alone.

 

[Starlight Liger]

That's not the version used in HW, though. Maybe her design takes a few influences from her look in SS but it's still very different.

Yeah, I meant to say that Impa's Hyrule Warriors design took inspiration from Skyward Sword. We already have Link representing Breath of the Wild so having Impa's Skyward Sword design would differentiate her from the other Zelda games represented.

 

[Ivander]

Well, look, if you give a character two completely different weapons, say, a sword and nunchucks,

I need to know who the heck this would be for because that sounds awesome.

Don't know who actually does, but the first thing that comes to my mind is:

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I need to know who the heck this would be for because that sounds awesome.

Probably Dante.

 

[mariofan48]

Sorry to butt in here, I gotta add an implausible theory here.

Western Developers, the big ones that Support the Switch are Activision, Take-Two, Bethesda and WB Games. Now all 4 of them probably won't get a character but i think Activision and Bethesda (Now Microsoft 2) can get fighters in.

Actvision: Crash or Tracer, they seem like the most likely picks from that company, although Spyro is the one i'd like to see.

Take-Two: GTA and Red Dead aren't on Switch so I'd wager, That the chracter is either Borderlands, Bioshock or Civilization. I'm personally betting on a Civilization fighter, as that series pioneered the Stratagey game genre

Bethesda (Another Microsoft Character): Doom Guy

WB games: This one is harder and a bit more implausible, Scorpion would be the most likely, but due to MK's status in Japan, that doesn't seem likely. Chas McCain seems like the most plausible choice, as he debuted in a Video Game, So there's that. And in Darth Revan like territory we have The Arkham Night but he's very implausible.

Now i think instead of WB Games, we will get Fortnite Jonsey, Master Chief or a Japanese Character like a Falcom or Koei Techmo character.

(Ubisoft i did not forget about but Ezio and Rayman are already in the game)

Min Min proved that Spirits do not deconfirm at least base game spirits from being playable, so Rayman can definitely be added to the roster, and Ezio is not in the game. You're probably thinking about the Altair Mii Costume. Also in terms of Mortal Kombat, Sub Zero would be a much easier character for them to tone down for Smash while still keeping what makes him unique. (Since they already have a character like Ice Climbers that uses Ice Like Sub Zero I think they can tone him down pretty easily without giving up what makes the character unique)

 

[MooMew64]

I mean, to be fair, I imagine properly and faithfully representing a series that's iconic enemies all feature gruesome and/or grotesque body horror designs would be rather difficult for a family friendly Nintendo game. Can't really rep a game about zombies without actually having the zombies represented in some way, IMHO.

The issue was never about the guns or the protags of RE itself, it was always about what would be needed to fully represent what it is. Best case scenario would probably have been another Cloud situation, but even then that makes the stages really tricky, as how would you do an RE stage without any zombies at all? I suppose you could try to sensor some of the less gruesome ones, but then is that even representing RE at that point if it isn't the monsters that are actually iconic to the series?

Part of the reason I think DMC will be our Capcom rep is because I think the series is very similar to Bayonetta in that yes, it is very much mature, but you can easily leave out the bits that make it mature or change and tweak them in subtle ways that the general content still shines through and the people who enjoy these series still "get it", so to speak.

 

[mariofan48]

I mean, to be fair, I imagine properly and faithfully representing a series that's iconic enemies all feature gruesome and/or grotesque body horror designs would be rather difficult for a family friendly Nintendo game. Can't really rep a game about zombies without actually having the zombies represented in some way, IMHO.

The issue was never about the guns or the protags of RE itself, it was always about what would be needed to fully represent what it is. Best case scenario would probably have been another Cloud situation, but even then that makes the stages really tricky, as how would you do an RE stage without any zombies at all? I suppose you could try to sensor some of the less gruesome ones, but then is that even representing RE at that point if it isn't the monsters that are actually iconic to the series?

Part of the reason I think DMC will be our Capcom rep is because I think the series is very similar to Bayonetta in that yes, it is very much mature, but you can easily leave out the bits that make it mature or change and tweak them in subtle ways that the general content still shines through and the people who enjoy these series still "get it", so to speak.

They could also go for a more family friendly Capcom character like Phoenix Wright that has DMC beaten out in the history with Nintendo department.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't know if you can call a Greek god that used to be worship as didn't have a real life equivalent

I guess that's a question for whether you think theology is mythology or not.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

They could also go for a more family friendly Capcom character like Phoenix Wright that has DMC beaten out in the history with Nintendo department.

Like any of that matters anyways.

 

[mariofan48]

Like any of that matters anyways.

To be honest we can speculate all we want but the only person who knows who's going to get in is Sakurai and how he goes about that process none of us know for sure. It really just feels like at this point that ANYONE inside the realm of video games is possible.