Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Apparently girl Terry appeared in an SNK vs Capcom game, as a result of Demitri's Midnight Bliss. Guess they just felt like a callback.

That and they probably thought it'd be funny. I'm inclined to agree with the concept of Terry, but a girl because he deserves to be in a mascot fighter, but the game is girls only, though I do disapprove of the whole pervert angle the game has.

If there's one thing I would criticize Japan about, it would be the idea that perverts are funny. They're not. They're creepy. They're creepy in SNK Heroines, they're creepy in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, they're just creepy. Stop it.

What is everyone thinking about a Monster Hunter rep lately? I'm still very surprised by that Nintendo focused Monster Hunter direct. I looked at the Direct archive, and that's the only third party franchise to have a Nintendo direct in at least 8 years. Not sure if there was ever another one. Obviously we have Rathalos, but I feel like we could easily get more.

I think they're the most likely Capcom character to be added due to the available cross promotion. Between that and the fact that Resident Evil is disconfirmed, Devil May Cry is on other consoles right now, and Phoenix Wright has an uncertain future, I can't really see any other Capcom series getting picked.

My only question is will we get a character, or just the Mii Costumes.

By the time I woke up, discussion's already moved on from the rhythm thing, but...

I don't think you can just slap timed hits on a rhythm game character and say that at all feels the same as actually being rhythm-based. I can accept that the idea I presented is screwy and unfeasible, sure; but Alolan Whip is not going to make me feel like I'm playing a rhythm game.

No, but if you add rhythm to the timing mechanic, you've got yourself a rhythm based character.

I need to get back to work, but I'll just say that Geno and a Rhythm Heaven character would use the timing mechanic very differently.

 

[ahemtoday]

No, but if you add rhythm to the timing mechanic, you've got yourself a rhythm based character.

I need to get back to work, but I'll just say that Geno and a Rhythm Heaven character would use the timing mechanic very differently.

...How do you add rhythm to the timing mechanic? Shouldn't a timing mechanic already be based on rhythm to begin with? Wouldn't adding rhythm to that just be making it go to the music, which consensus seems to be is unfeasible?

 

[cashregister9]

Monster Hunter did not come out in the middle of Ultimate dev's cycle like Arms did Monster Hunter was always quite popular, I don't think this changes much in the way of Monster Hunter's chances but I feel like it should be noted. I do also think that Min Min has helped monhun

 

[kirbsmash]

That and they probably thought it'd be funny. I'm inclined to agree with the concept of Terry, but a girl because he deserves to be in a mascot fighter, but the game is girls only, though I do disapprove of the whole pervert angle the game has.

why not use blue mary or someone coplaying as terry??

 

[SharkLord]

why not use blue mary or someone coplaying as terry??

Because only Terry Bogard himself can give you the authentic Terry Bogard Experience™

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

...How do you add rhythm to the timing mechanic? Shouldn't a timing mechanic already be based on rhythm to begin with? Wouldn't adding rhythm to that just be making it go to the music, which consensus seems to be is unfeasible?

From what I'm seeing, people are suggesting a rhythm character would essentially be like a rekka character in other fighting games. Usually Rekka characters get 3-4 hits off of those moves (potentially to a perfect and repeating beat if you designed it that way), while a lot of timing-based moves only have 2. I think it's a possible solution, but would probably still be really predictable unless you were able to change things up drastically depending on what button you pressed. It's not like Smash has overheads and lows. People can just hold block until you're done. I could see an alternative situation where the character could continue doing "rekkas" indefinitely, but that would be really tough to balance.

 

[SKX31]

What is everyone thinking about a Monster Hunter rep lately? I'm still very surprised by that Nintendo focused Monster Hunter direct. I looked at the Direct archive, and that's the only third party franchise to have a Nintendo direct in at least 8 years. Not sure if there was ever another one. Obviously we have Rathalos, but I feel like we could easily get more.

For me it's difficult to place where Monster Hunter really stands. I could see them as one of Capcom's frontrunners, but Rathalos has a larger role than the ARMS Spirits did really.

So it's really up to Sakurai / Furukawa and co. whether Rathalos (who's not just a WoL boss / AT, but also a boss in several characters' Classic Mode) + 2 songs is "enough"... and that's up in the air really.

Because only Terry Bogard himself can give you the authentic Terry Bogard Experience™

You mean:

 

[ahemtoday]

I think part of what would make a rekka Rhythm Heaven character (or any rhythm game character) feel bizarre is... being in control of the rhythm. Like, that's not at all how it works. In a rhythm game, it's up to you to react to the cues thrown your way, not to... spontaneously generate them out of thin air.

At the very least, I'd expect an RH character to have a very reaction-based playstyle. I'm not all that familiar with how rekka characters typically play, but I get the impression they tend to be a rushdown thing, which... would not suit any rhythm game in the slightest.

 

[pupNapoleon]

HAPPY PAGE 4444!
Four FOURS has gotta be good luck, right?
#CharacterDrop
#ObviouslyNot

 

[chocolatejr9]

HAPPY PAGE 4444!
Four FOURS has gotta be good luck, right?
#CharacterDrop
#ObviouslyNot

We'll get something eventually. People are betting next week, but I gave up on bets a long time ago...

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think part of what would make a rekka Rhythm Heaven character (or any rhythm game character) feel bizarre is... being in control of the rhythm. Like, that's not at all how it works. In a rhythm game, it's up to you to react to the cues thrown your way, not to... spontaneously generate them out of thin air.

At the very least, I'd expect an RH character to have a very reaction-based playstyle. I'm not all that familiar with how rekka characters typically play, but I get the impression they tend to be a rushdown thing, which... would not suit any rhythm game in the slightest.

It's worth noting that, from a musical standpoint, rhythm and speed (tempo) are not the same thing. Keeping attacks in rhythm would not dictate the speed, and so if there is a magical formula of within what rhythm the attacks need to for optimum effectiveness, then it would not be dictated by how quickly or slowly the buttons are pressed.

I think of it like knowing that the combos can be pressed for the fighting characters, or when to press the gas at the start of a Mario Kart for a boost. Knowing the rhythm for each move makes it more effective, and keeping it at a higher speed makes it take less time to initiate (just because, well, youre cutting down time on pressing the buttons, not because it would have a faster frame data).

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I think part of what would make a rekka Rhythm Heaven character (or any rhythm game character) feel bizarre is... being in control of the rhythm. Like, that's not at all how it works. In a rhythm game, it's up to you to react to the cues thrown your way, not to... spontaneously generate them out of thin air.

At the very least, I'd expect an RH character to have a very reaction-based playstyle. I'm not all that familiar with how rekka characters typically play, but I get the impression they tend to be a rushdown thing, which... would not suit any rhythm game in the slightest.

You're not far off. Rekka characters are almost always rushdown. If a rhythm character were to operate like a rekka character, it would have to be a really different version of the concept. Maybe using the rekka idea to fire multiple projectiles or to put up different barriers, etc. Otherwise I don't think it's a great idea. Any high-level player worth their salt would parry a more traditional rhythm-based rekka for free.

 

[ZelDan]

We'll get something eventually. People are betting next week, but I gave up on bets a long time ago...

Wait, betting on next week for what? A Smash reveal?

Because there's no way that's happening.

 

[pupNapoleon]

...the fact that Resident Evil is disconfirmed...

Well, that's really more a matter of opinion than fact.

Wait, betting on next week for what? A Smash reveal?

Because there's no way that's happening.

Sure it is. It's always a week away.

 

[Firox]

For me it's difficult to place where Monster Hunter really stands. I could see them as one of Capcom's frontrunners, but Rathalos has a larger role than the ARMS Spirits did really.

So it's really up to Sakurai / Furukawa and co. whether Rathalos (who's not just a WoL boss / AT, but also a boss in several characters' Classic Mode) + 2 songs is "enough"... and that's up in the air really.



You mean:

I love the epic truth and irony of that T-shirt but am sad that only the most staunch Smash bros players would have the faintest idea what it means.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Getting any Smash news in the next three weeks seems even less likely than a Game Awards reveal honestly.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don’t think any characters is strictly chosen by Nintendo without Sakurai’s input on WHICH character it should be. However, people are ignoring that KoFXIV actually did REALLY well and sparked SNK’s comeback into the public eye. That’s without including SNK’s MULTIPLE crossovers even before Smash.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Wait, betting on next week for what? A Smash reveal?

Because there's no way that's happening.

Not necessarily. Just something Nintendo-related.

I should probably mention that it's especially popular in the Geno thread at the moment, so you might want to take a peak there for more info. All I know is that it involves a weird amount of maintenance, including a rather long Paypal update thing.

 

[spicynun]

What is everyone thinking about a Monster Hunter rep lately? I'm still very surprised by that Nintendo focused Monster Hunter direct. I looked at the Direct archive, and that's the only third party franchise to have a Nintendo direct in at least 8 years. Not sure if there was ever another one. Obviously we have Rathalos, but I feel like we could easily get more.

I personally think Capcom has the biggest toss up if they get another rep. To me most of their characters have plenty of evidence against/for them.
To me it's between MH, Dante, and Phoenix Wright. As much as I would love Ammy or a Power Stone rep.

 

[7NATOR]

Terry and Also Perhaps Joker Probably had a Big Push from Sakurai, but They never would have gotten in if they didn't in Someway benefit Nintendo, or did not have their own Merits to Joining Smash even without Sakurai

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think part of what would make a rekka Rhythm Heaven character (or any rhythm game character) feel bizarre is... being in control of the rhythm. Like, that's not at all how it works. In a rhythm game, it's up to you to react to the cues thrown your way, not to... spontaneously generate them out of thin air.

At the very least, I'd expect an RH character to have a very reaction-based playstyle. I'm not all that familiar with how rekka characters typically play, but I get the impression they tend to be a rushdown thing, which... would not suit any rhythm game in the slightest.

You're not far off. Rekka characters are almost always rushdown. If a rhythm character were to operate like a rekka character, it would have to be a really different version of the concept. Maybe using the rekka idea to fire multiple projectiles or to put up different barriers, etc. Otherwise I don't think it's a great idea. Any high-level player worth their salt would parry a more traditional rhythm-based rekka for free.

OK, so here's an idea for a Rhythm Heaven character's Neutral Special inspired by Karate Man. First, watch this video to get an idea of what I'm working with.

The idea is similar to Header. Pressing the Special Attack button causes a pot to fly at you, and you can hit it forward with any of your normals, but you have to time it correctly to do so. This attack is spammable in a simple 1-2 rhythm at a tempo that makes it a good projectile, but not so good that it takes over the moveset. There are a variety of ways to expand upon this idea as well:

• Sometimes, a blue or yellow lightbulb could be tossed at you instead of a pot. This can happen either randomly, or every so uses. Hitting the blue lightbulb will automatically throw a barrel with a bomb inside it at you that you can hit twice to hit a bomb at the opponent, and hitting the yellow one throws a bunch of barrels at you that you can hit with a combo attack to hit a barrage of barrels at your opponent.
• Sometimes an item other than a pot could be thrown at you, which varies on power and distance once hit toward the opponent.
• This attack could be used at all times, allowing you to factor it into your combos, but not allowing you to use it to break combos since it doesn't have a hitbox until you hit the item.
• After using this Special Move, you can delay using it again for a specific timing that gives you an item that travels faster.

Not all of these ideas would have to be used mind you. It would definitely be something you'd have to play around with on the design board, but I think it's a good indicator of what a Rhythm Heaven character would be like (though I wouldn't have any of their normals do nothing if you didn't do the extra input). It's rhythmic, but not dependent on BGM or anything like that.

 

[7NATOR]

Wait I got a Question to Ask

If The Switch is gonna last like 3-5 More years, (even if New Models come out), Do you think we'd get a New Smash Game? When Brawl and Melee Came out, they came out Years before the Actual Console finished, so is this the Same Scenraio here

Or do you think this time it might be Different?

 

[cashregister9]

Wait I got a Question to Ask

If The Switch is gonna last like 3-5 More years, (even if New Models come out), Do you think we'd get a New Smash Game? When Brawl and Melee Came out, they came out Years before the Actual Console finished, so is this the Same Scenraio here

Or do you think this time it might be Different?

The most I could see is an Ultimate Deluxe that has all the DLC on the cart and like 2 new characters and a new mode or something

 

[7NATOR]

The most I could see is an Ultimate Deluxe that has all the DLC on the cart and like 2 new characters and a new mode or something

I do think if they do like a Deluxe Version, I hope they make the Content available to OG Owners of Ultimate, like as a DLC Expansion or Something, like how MK11 Does it, though I know there was backlash that Of Owners ended up paying over Hundreds of Dollars, while new Buyers only payed 60 Dollars for everything, but that's what happens

what they could do is for a Special Edition they could go for 100 Characters. Currently after this DLC there will be 86-88 fighters (which depends on if you Count Pokemon Trainer as One of Multiple Characters). this would mean 12-14 New Characters would need to be Added in order for the Boxart to Advertise 100 fighters+.

I think if they do this, it would be especially good for those that didn't buy the DLC since they would be getting 24-26 New Fighters from Base Ultimate.

Though I also wonder if the Special Edition would have extra DLC. Would it ever end?

For New Modes, it could be returning Modes Like Smash Run and Boss Rush, or Expansion to WOL, maybe entire new Modes

.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

HAPPY PAGE 4444!
Four FOURS has gotta be good luck, right?

Not according to Mista.

Getting any Smash news in the next three weeks seems even less likely than a Game Awards reveal honestly.

Yeah. At this point you might as well save the Smash Reveal for TGA.

I think people can't accept the idea us having to wait for next year for the next reveal, as if that is some super pessimist doomer mindset.

 

[cashregister9]

I do think if they do like a Deluxe Version, I hope they make the Content available to OG Owners of Ultimate, like as a DLC Expansion or Something, like how MK11 Does it, though I know there was backlash that Of Owners ended up paying over Hundreds of Dollars, while new Buyers only payed 60 Dollars for everything, but that's what happens

what they could do is for a Special Edition they could go for 100 Characters. Currently after this DLC there will be 86-88 fighters (which depends on if you Count Pokemon Trainer as One of Multiple Characters). this would mean 12-14 New Characters would need to be Added in order for the Boxart to Advertise 100 fighters+.

I think if they do this, it would be especially good for those that didn't buy the DLC since they would be getting 24-26 New Fighters from Base Ultimate.

Though I also wonder if the Special Edition would have extra DLC. Would it ever end?

For New Modes, it could be returning Modes Like Smash Run and Boss Rush, or Expansion to WOL, maybe entire new Modes

.

I don't think it would ever be that big. I hope it would be that big. that would be cool but seeing how Nintendo handle other deluxe editions I'd guess it would be like. 3-4 characters tops, maybe with stages, and maybe a Boss Rush mode or WoL expansion.

Turn your living room into a dance party with 40 of the hottest hits in #JustDance2021, available now for #NintendoSwitch!

💃🕺: https://t.co/bLNjvX5qrH pic.twitter.com/Fx7bh7VRxr

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) November 12, 2020

Fella's I think we all know what the next character is

 

[7NATOR]

I don't think it would ever be that big. I hope it would be that big. that would be cool but seeing how Nintendo handle other deluxe editions I'd guess it would be like. 3-4 characters tops, maybe with stages, and maybe a Boss Rush mode or WoL expansion.

Wait, I got to ask. did Mario Kart 8 Deluxe every come with Extra Content besides whatever was DLC in the Wii U Version

Also Something I do wonder, Would it be worth it to even re-release the game with all the DLC? Because Of How much 3rd party company content are in the game, I wonder if they take a Percent of the Base game Profit, if that is in the Contract or something

If so that could potentially be alot of hands in the Cookie Jar. I always thought that's why DLC was so focused on 3rd parties and Base game is more focused on First Parties, because with DLC the Costs Are more balanced in Nintendo's Favor I would say

So with a Re-Release, would Nintendo lose out on alot of Potential Profit due to 3rd Parties wanting a Piece? I Also wonder How MK and Injustice Re-Releases do in this regard

 

[cashregister9]

Wait, I got to ask. did Mario Kart 8 Deluxe every come with Extra Content besides whatever was DLC in the Wii U Version

It added the Inklings, BOTW Outfit for Link and a proper battle mode, So it did add a bit. But then you got NSMBU Deluxe which only added Toadette. So Nintendo tends to handle Deluxe editions differently.

 

[Arcanir]

Monster Hunter did not come out in the middle of Ultimate dev's cycle like Arms did Monster Hunter was always quite popular, I don't think this changes much in the way of Monster Hunter's chances but I feel like it should be noted. I do also think that Min Min has helped monhun

A counterpoint to this though is that while the franchise didn't debut during Ultimate's development, World did. A game that not only blew up the franchise from being mostly Japanese centric to a global one, but also became the best selling lone title for Capcom period at 16.4 million. It's basically MH's Persona 5 or FF7 in terms of its breakout performance, and if there's any game that could get the franchise a second look, that would be it.

 

[cashregister9]

A counterpoint to this though is that while the franchise didn't debut during Ultimate's development, World did. A game that not only blew up the franchise from being mostly Japanese centric to a global one, but also became the best selling lone title for Capcom period at 16.4 million. It's basically MH's Persona 5 or FF7 in terms of its breakout performance, and if there's any game that could get the franchise a second look, that would be it.

Exactly, that is why I don't think my point changes anything about Monster Hunter's chances I just thought it might be something to consider.

 

[7NATOR]

It added the Inklings, BOTW Outfit for Link and a proper battle mode, So it did add a bit. But then you got NSMBU Deluxe which only added Toadette. So Nintendo tends to handle Deluxe editions differently.

I thought Inklings were DLC in Wii U Versions. Then again, Splatoon came out like a year after Mario Kart 8 right, so I guess they'd be saved for Switch version


In any case, I guess perhaps an Ultimate Deluxe Version would only add few New Characters and modes gong by Precedent, but Dang it it would be the Best way to have 100 Characters or More, though I don't know how much Sakurai cares about breaking that Milestone, but Over 100 Characters could be a Big Selling point...or not

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

5 years ago...

On this day in 2015, Cloud stormed into battle as a DLC character for Smash for 3DS and Wii U, shocking many fans.#PushFacts#SmashBros#FinalFantasyVIIRemake pic.twitter.com/F469EEwG0w

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) November 12, 2020

I remember watching the Direct live, only for me to leave because of internet connection sucking, and i didn't end up seeing Cloud's reveal live, so i missed it.

You can imagine my face when i found out about it later. I find out in the K.Rool thread (back then Character support threads were closed down, so we had to use the now-defunct Social Threads in order to keep in contact) when someone namedropped him out of the blue, and i was confused as hell and had to go to the Smash website to find out.


Shock value aside, this was a very "eh" reveal. It does make me really happy they went with CGI trailers for DLC chars in Ultimate as opposed to cutting the budget on 4's DLC trailers (Ken got a CGI trailer while Ryu did not lol) which really ruined the magic.

Still, he was the best Non-Veteran reveal in my eyes of Smash 4 DLC.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

OK, so here's an idea for a Rhythm Heaven character's Neutral Special inspired by Karate Man. First, watch this video to get an idea of what I'm working with.

The idea is similar to Header. Pressing the Special Attack button causes a pot to fly at you, and you can hit it forward with any of your normals, but you have to time it correctly to do so. This attack is spammable in a simple 1-2 rhythm at a tempo that makes it a good projectile, but not so good that it takes over the moveset. There are a variety of ways to expand upon this idea as well:

• Sometimes, a blue or yellow lightbulb could be tossed at you instead of a pot. This can happen either randomly, or every so uses. Hitting the blue lightbulb will automatically throw a barrel with a bomb inside it at you that you can hit twice to hit a bomb at the opponent, and hitting the yellow one throws a bunch of barrels at you that you can hit with a combo attack to hit a barrage of barrels at your opponent.
• Sometimes an item other than a pot could be thrown at you, which varies on power and distance once hit toward the opponent.
• This attack could be used at all times, allowing you to factor it into your combos, but not allowing you to use it to break combos since it doesn't have a hitbox until you hit the item.
• After using this Special Move, you can delay using it again for a specific timing that gives you an item that travels faster.

Not all of these ideas would have to be used mind you. It would definitely be something you'd have to play around with on the design board, but I think it's a good indicator of what a Rhythm Heaven character would be like (though I wouldn't have any of their normals do nothing if you didn't do the extra input). It's rhythmic, but not dependent on BGM or anything like that.

In that topic, I had some ideas for a up special for a Rhythm heaven characters.

-The first one is based on See-saw from Rhythm heaven fever. When you press Up-B the seesaw appear and you have to press B when your character touch it to jump higher. It works a bit similar to Pac-man up B (in the way that the more you touch it, you go higher).

-My second idea is based on Launch party. A random rocket appear and you have to press B a second time based at the right moment to jump with it.

-The third idea is Donk donk. That... weird rocket thing... appear and you habe to press B when the... head of the fork touch the other fork? You'll get it if you watch the video.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually on the Topic of characters like Cloud and such

Sakurai said that 1/4 or 1/3 of the Final Fantasy Requests were for Cloud, However at least on Here and more Hardcore Fourms, Cloud was seen as Impossibility or not happening, so More Nintendo Focused FF Reps like Black Mage Dominated and such

So where did Sakurai get the Data From? I don't think it was the ballot because Data was a Big Reasons Cloud was Picked, and Cloud would have had to been decided Earlier than when the Ballot was announced considering the Development Timeline.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

In that topic, I had some ideas for a up special for a Rhythm heaven characters.

-The first one is based on See-saw from Rhythm heaven fever. When you press Up-B the seesaw appear and you have to press B when your character touch it to jump higher. It works a bit similar to Pac-man up B (in the way that the more you touch it, you go higher).

-My second idea is based on Launch party. A random rocket appear and you have to press B a second time based at the right moment to jump with it.

I had an idea for See-saw as well, but rather than having to build momentum, you are launched up a fixed height, and if you press...um, whichever button makes the most sense after having tested it when you hit the ground, you will be given a generous landing hitbox. Failing to do so has the same amount of end lag, but you don't get the hitbox. I envision the move always acting like the high part near the end of the song.

I though about using Launch Party as well, but the problem with it is that the recovery move would take a full second to actually do anything so you're pretty much a sitting duck whenever you have to use it.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

But then you got NSMBU Deluxe which only added Toadette

Thats all NSMBU needed to be great

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fella's I think we all know what the next character is

Wait, 2021? Is 2020 so bad that even Just Dance wants to move on? Or maybe...


This challenger is from the future!

 

[cashregister9]

Wait, 2021? Is 2020 so bad that even Just Dance wants to move on? Or maybe...


This challenger is from the future!

Just Dance 2020 already released and is in fact the last game released on the Wii

 

[Jerry98]

I'm in a similar boat. I'm definitely trying it out. I will warn you that apparently Shiren the Wanderer is harder than PMD. I don't know how, but it's something I've seen consistently. That makes me more interested, but I could see it turning some people off if they were looking for a more chill experience.

No problem for me!

 

[Goombaic]

I though about using Launch Party as well, but the problem with it is that the recovery move would take a full second to actually do anything so you're pretty much a sitting duck whenever you have to use it.

The way I made it less impractical in my moveset was by making Joe invincible while waiting to launch. Launching at the right time would keep him invincible as he ascends as well as giving him a powerful hitbox, while timing it incorrectly would still launch him, but would leave him pretty vulnerable during and after the ascension.