Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Curious Villager]

Thanks for kicking me while im already down with info I already know and believe

I still really hope Layton shows up somehow, spirit, mii, idc

I mean, I doubt their in such deep hell that they can't even get a shout out via a spirit event, unless they happened to have gotten some bad blood with Nintendo at some point that I don't know about...

Apparently they still seem to get some good money from some of the mobile games they released and they celebrated their 22nd anniversary the other day like nothing happened so I guess we'll see.

If anything, I hope they at least get a spirit event at some point and don't walk home completely empty handed...

 

[SharkLord]

What's the hell is Falcom ? Never heard of this compagny before.

Falcom is among the oldest video game companies, and are known for A: Codifying the action RPG genre, B: Creating the long-running ARPG Ys and cult classic JRPG Trails (Though the latter is gaining in popularity), and C: Developing loads of awesome rock songs in their RPGs. A couple days ago, I did a big writeup on Adol, the main protagonist of Ys, with a brief mention of Falcom's early history as well. You can read it here.

For further info, there's this documentary on Falcom's history.

 

[RileyXY1]

Falcom is among the oldest video game companies, and are known for A: Codifying the action RPG genre, B: Creating the long-running ARPG Ys and cult classic JRPG Trails (Though the latter is gaining in popularity), and C: Developing loads of awesome rock songs in their RPGs. A couple days ago, I did a big writeup on Adol, the main protagonist of Ys, with a brief mention of Falcom's early history as well. You can read it here.

For further info, there's this documentary on Falcom's history.

The only problem is that their legacy is mostly limited to Japan.

 

[Dinoman96]

The only problem is that their legacy is mostly limited to Japan.

How many of their games have come out in the west, by chance?

 

[Wigglerman]

The only problem is that their legacy is mostly limited to Japan.

So was Marth/Roy at the time of their inclusion. I really don't think this factors in as much as people think it does. Though, granted, I'd imagine Nintendo would be less likely to select characters from relatively unknown IPs for Ultimate. But that isn't to say they won't. Nothing is truly certain right now. The whims of the big Nin to the Ten to the DOH are very much unclear to us mere mortals.

 

[Dinoman96]

So was Marth/Roy at the time of their inclusion. I really don't think this factors in as much as people think it does.

To be fair...that's why Sakurai originally wanted to plunge them from all non-JP versions of Melee lol

 

[GoodGrief741]

The only problem is that their legacy is mostly limited to Japan.

Idk man inventing a genre is kind of a worldwide legacy imo.

 

[7NATOR]

So I want to ask a Question

Appealing to New Audiences for DLC is Important, But appealing to the Existing Audiences that have already been shown to Buy the game is Also Important

Do you guys think we will get more Characters that will Appeal to the Existing Audience (Like with Min-Min), Or More characters that Appeal to New Audiences (Like With Steve, even if he Appeals to Everyone)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's that one console Nintendo made exclusively in Japan.

No that's the Famicom, Falcom is the F Zero character who punches people

 

[SharkLord]

How many of their games have come out in the west, by chance?

They used to have issues with that, but after XSEED (And later NIS America), they've been localizing their games consistently. As of current, every Ys game post-Ys VI has been released on Steam; Including remakes, which, override the older version in the continuity, that's every Ys game that isn't Ys V (Which is among the weaker installments, or so I've heard). On the Trails side, the Sky and Cold Steel arcs have been localized or are going to be localized. No dice on the Crossbell arc, though.

So if we're looking at the three frontrunners (Adol, Estelle, and Rean), I'd say they're all safe.

 

[Wigglerman]

So I want to ask a Question

Appealing to New Audiences for DLC is Important, But appealing to the Existing Audiences that have already been shown to Buy the game is Also Important

Do you guys think we will get more Characters that will Appeal to the Existing Audience (Like with Min-Min), Or More characters that Appeal to New Audiences (Like With Steve, even if he Appeals to Everyone)

Ideally, both. We've got 4 more slots left. No reason not to be happy with 2 slots being 'appeal to existing fans/legacy fans) and 2 for 'appeal to newer fans/not yet fans' sort of scenario.


I'll accept who gets in either way, but as a 31 year old, my hopes are set on more nostalgic picks than anything from newer titles for the most part. As in, reps from the early 2000's and earlier.

 

[The_Naraotor]

Never heard of Falcom before thank you for the knowledge of who they are.

 

[cashregister9]

The only problem is that their legacy is mostly limited to Japan.

SNK's presence is about as far reaching as Falcom's not only is Falcom popular in Japan but they are quite big in Korea and China as well

It is not nearly the same but Japanese popularity did not stop Fire Emblem back in Melee.

How many of their games have come out in the west, by chance?

A lot

Ys, 1, 2, 3 ,6, 7 ,8, Origin,
Ys Memories of Celceta and Oath In Felghana they are remakes if you count those seperately
Ys 9 is being localized currently
Trails in the Sky FC, SC, Third and then Trails Of Cold Steel 1-4 have been released
Legend Of Heroes 2
Legend Of Heroes A Tear of Vermillion
Legend Of Heroes 3
Sorcerian
Legacy Of The Wizard
Zwei
Zwei 2
Gurumin
Xanadu NEXT
Tokyo Xanadu
Popful Mail
Brandish
Brandish 4

And some that I am probably missing.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As far as my opinion goes on Falcom's stuff. They're gonna need to get into Super Smash Bros. before I'll care about them. For the time being, that's really the only way for me to be introduced to them proper.

 

[RileyXY1]

They would have to add another Western character to compensate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They would have to add another Western character to compensate.

Not really. The last pass didn't need it (Banjo & Kazooie mostly appealed to Smash fans in the west, not the west as a whole) and we've already got Steve, who is mega popular worldwide.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

May as well add Level 5 to “list of content for new Spirit Events that is being slept on”

bruh it’s literally just PNGs can’t u just email the copyright holders to use PNGs instead of giving us generic themed events with stuff we already have??

 

[7NATOR]

May as well add Level 5 to “list of content for new Spirit Events that is being slept on”

bruh it’s literally just PNGs can’t u just email the copyright holders to use PNGs instead of giving us generic themed events with stuff we already have??

I'm gonna take a guess and say it probably has to do with the making of the Actual Spirit Battle

Sakurai and the Team, along with Nintendo need to talk with 3rd parties in everything. This would also include how the Spirit Battle works and how the A.I works, to accurately portray the Character's Characteristics

Like it would be a Shame if Layton Spirit Battle involved him Pulling out a Super Scope and just spamming from across the Screen, or like if Fortnite didn't use Guns at all.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm gonna take a guess and say it probably has to do with the making of the Actual Spirit Battle

Sakurai and the Team, along with Nintendo need to talk with 3rd parties in everything. This would also include how the Spirit Battle works and how the A.I works, to accurately portray the Character's Characteristics

Like it would be a Shame if Layton Spirit Battle involved him Pulling out a Super Scope and just spamming from across the Screen, or like if Fortnite didn't use Guns at all.

That’s... a fair point actually

now I could understand if it’s why third party spirit events have been rare

what I don’t understand is why there’s so few first party new spirit events as well, it’s all within Nintendo so...?

and yes I know there’s a pandemic but I’d imagine these negotiations would have surely been easier

 

[7NATOR]

That’s... a fair point actually

now I could understand if it’s why third party spirit events have been rare

what I don’t understand is why there’s so few first party new spirit events as well, it’s all within Nintendo so...?

and yes I know there’s a pandemic but I’d imagine these negotiations would have surely been easier

Well, Mostly every 1st Party Franchise is already Represented in Smash, usually in Spirit Form

The Only 1st Party Franchise I could think of the top of my Head that don't have spirits (or Anything in Smash) Is Dragalia Lost. Besides That I think we got most stuff in Smash already, including the New I.Ps of Astral Chain and Ring Fit, and the New Pokemon Gen 8.

They could add more Spirits for Existing Franchises I guess, but I guess they rather just re-use Spirits at that point

 

[SNEKeater]

They would have to add another Western character to compensate.

What is this line of thinking? I don't get it at all.

They don't have to do anything. If things must be balanced Smash would need like 20 FPS characters, 17 characters from fighting games and 20 puzzle characters to compensate the great amount of RPG and platformer fighters we have.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'm not sure which third-party newcomers will make the final cut, but I'm pretty sure it'll remain mostly third-parties from here on out.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if there's even one more first-party newcomer that isn't from Pokemon, to be perfectly honest. Nintendo seems to be more interested in big name third parties for the DLC, and profit likely has something to do with it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well, Mostly every 1st Party Franchise is already Represented in Smash, usually in Spirit Form

The Only 1st Party Franchise I could think of the top of my Head that don't have spirits (or Anything in Smash) Is Dragalia Lost. Besides That I think we got most stuff in Smash already, including the New I.Ps of Astral Chain and Ring Fit, and the New Pokemon Gen 8.

They could add more Spirits for Existing Franchises I guess, but I guess they rather just re-use Spirits at that point

Paper Mario already has a Spirit in the base game and the Origami King event still happened

did it reuse the base game Paper Mario spirit? I don’t recall

but if so, there’s more potential there for stuff like Luigi’s Mansion 3 for example

heck, even a Xenoblade DE future connected event using only the four new renders of FC Shulk, FC Melia, Kino and Nene

 

[Dinoman96]

They could do something for Hyrule Warriors AOC this month.

Maybe mostly just reuse the BOTW spirits in the base game, but also have one or two new ones, like Impa.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

They could do something for Hyrule Warriors AOC this month.

Maybe mostly just reuse the BOTW spirits in the base game, but also have one or two new ones, like Impa.

Remember when Byleth came and they renamed the Dimitri and Hilda (Zelda) spirits? They may name the base Impa one “Impa (Ocarina of Time)” and the AOC Impa “Impa (Age of Calamity)”

 

[7NATOR]

Paper Mario already has a Spirit in the base game and the Origami King event still happened

did it reuse the base game Paper Mario spirit? I don’t recall

but if so, there’s more potential there for stuff like Luigi’s Mansion 3 for example

heck, even a Xenoblade DE future connected event using only the four new renders of FD Shulk, FD Melia, Kino and Nene

I don't think Paper Mario was Re-used. I think it was just the additions of the New Spirits from Origami King

In any case, Luigi's Mansion 3 and Xenoblade's DE absence in the Spirit could be used as Speculation Potentially, like maybe they are saving it For a Character related to Luigi (King Boo or Waluigi), or a New Xenoblade Character. Of course that also depends on whether Sakurai and the Team Considered it important to give new Spirits for these 2 Games, but I don't know

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Another one is Tokyo Mirage Sessions FE Encore. Reuse the Tsubasa spirit from base, add Itsuki, Kiria and Touma and have them evolve into their Carnage Forms too

I don't think Paper Mario was Re-used. I think it was just the additions of the New Spirits from Origami King

In any case, Luigi's Mansion 3 and Xenoblade's DE absence in the Spirit could be used as Speculation Potentially, like maybe they are saving it For a Character related to Luigi (King Boo or Waluigi), or a New Xenoblade Character. Of course that also depends on whether Sakurai and the Team Considered it important to give new Spirits for these 2 Games, but I don't know

I could maybe understand holding back the Future Connected Spirits if we got like Mecha-Fiora or Melia as a playable character. If we were to get someone like Rex, Elma or Lora though, withholding them wouldn’t make much sense

...or would it...?

 

[7NATOR]

Another one is Tokyo Mirage Sessions FE Encore. Reuse the Tsubasa spirit from base, add Itsuki, Kiria and Touma and have them evolve into their Carnage Forms too


I could maybe understand holding back the Future Connected Spirits if we got like Mecha-Fiora or Melia as a playable character. If we were to get someone like Rex, Elma or Lora though, withholding them wouldn’t make much sense

...or would it...?

That's a good point actually... I have no Idea unless we were getting a XB1 Character.

Maybe it might be that it be an extra Spirit event after whatever Xenoblade character is released in FP2, if we get a Xenoblade character that is

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Also on topic of Spirit Events though, Now thinking about why 3rd party Franchises might not have Spirit events, Is it possible Toby Fox just wanted Sans as Mii Costume and no Spirits along with it, or maybe getting Undertale spirits to work would have been hard to Translate to Smash, especially since there's that whole Morality System in Place and such

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That's a good point actually... I have no Idea unless we were getting a XB1 Character.

Maybe it might be that it be an extra Spirit event after whatever Xenoblade character is released in FP2, if we get a Xenoblade character that is

----------------------------------------------------

Also on topic of Spirit Events though, Now thinking about why 3rd party Franchises might not have Spirit events, Is it possible Toby Fox just wanted Sans as Mii Costume and no Spirits along with it, or maybe getting Undertale spirits to work would have been hard to Translate to Smash, especially since there's that whole Morality System in Place and such

There was a Blue themed event a few months ago right? They COULD have included Sans as a random new spirit like they did with Warframe’s Lotus for the Black themed one. It could have been just Sans, no other Undertale characters

cries in no Mettaton spirit battle tho

 

[7NATOR]

There was a Blue themed event a few months ago right? They COULD have included Sans as a random new spirit like they did with Warframe’s Lotus for the Black themed one. It could have been just Sans, no other Undertale characters

cries in no Mettaton spirit battle tho

Sans Honestly would be a Perfect Spirit Battle I think (If they could find a Way to balance it I guess). I guess since Sans is a Skeleton man, he could come with the White Themed Spirit Event, along with potentially other Undertale Spirits down the line, I'm not sure about that one though

Also on Topic of Spirit Events, since the Recent one is a Masked Spirit Event, does this mean the next Character won't have a Mask, which would mean No Ryu as FP8, who's very popular in Speculation right now?

Who's Mettaton though? That sounds like a Pokemon ?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sans Honestly would be a Perfect Spirit Battle I think (If they could find a Way to balance it I guess). I guess since Sans is a Skeleton man, he could come with the White Themed Spirit Event, along with potentially other Undertale Spirits down the line, I'm not sure about that one though

Also on Topic of Spirit Events, since the Recent one is a Masked Spirit Event, does this mean the next Character won't have a Mask, which would mean No Ryu as FP8, who's very popular in Speculation right now?

Who's Mettaton though? That sounds like a Pokemon ?

Mettaton is another Undertale character

and I’m not sure about the Masked event for Hayabusa. Now if it were a tournament I’d be concerned

can I just say how much it bugs me that ppl call him just Ryu tho? I keep confusing him for SF Ryu who we already have. And yes I know we have two Roys but ones an alt

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

can I just say how much it bugs me that ppl call him just Ryu tho? I keep confusing him for SF Ryu who we already have. And yes I know we have two Roys but ones an alt

I'm the opposite; It bugs me when people call him Hayabusa.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Tfw we get Hayabusa but it’s this Hayabusa

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Tfw we get Hayabusa but it’s this Hayabusa

The NES rep that everyone really wants.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Falcom is among the oldest video game companies, and are known for A: Codifying the action RPG genre, B: Creating the long-running ARPG Ys and cult classic JRPG Trails (Though the latter is gaining in popularity), and C: Developing loads of awesome rock songs in their RPGs. A couple days ago, I did a big writeup on Adol, the main protagonist of Ys, with a brief mention of Falcom's early history as well. You can read it here.

For further info, there's this documentary on Falcom's history.

Yeah, but I don't see another Japanese Legacy Pick happening this Pass. Only way I see it happening is if there's another Pass. Yeah, Blame South East Asia for this one.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually Though I have another Question, that could be Important

You know how Apparently Minecraft was leakbait for Banjo (at First), but then eventually we got Steve, and he was only leakbait since at the time even though Steve was talked about for 5 Years, it was unknown if it could be done until FP2 was greenlit. Well there is possibly another Scenraio like this

So you guys remember the Seven Squares Leak, back when the Rumors of a 2nd Square Character were surfacing (and before it was confirmed to be Hero)? It had Seven Characters on it

Luminary
Erdrick
Slime
Sora
Geno
Sephiroth
Crono

Luminary and Erdrick are Playable, and Slime is Featured in Hero's Taunts and also on the Stage and is also a Spirit

What do you guys think Happened to the Other 4 Characters on this list. Geno is Already a Spirit, but has Missing Mii costume, and If Rumors are true, Sora was actually sought after, but it ended up not working out

Crono and Sephirioth are a Mystery

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Actually Though I have another Question, that could be Important

You know how Apparently Minecraft was leakbait for Banjo (at First), but then eventually we got Steve, and he was only leakbait since at the time even though Steve was talked about for 5 Years, it was unknown if it could be done until FP2 was greenlit. Well there is possibly another Scenraio like this

So you guys remember the Seven Squares Leak, back when the Rumors of a 2nd Square Character were surfacing (and before it was confirmed to be Hero)? It had Seven Characters on it

Luminary
Erdrick
Slime
Sora
Geno
Sephiroth
Crono

Luminary and Erdrick are Playable, and Slime is Featured in Hero's Taunts and also on the Stage and is also a Spirit

What do you guys think Happened to the Other 4 Characters on this list. Geno is Already a Spirit, but has Missing Mii costume, and If Rumors are true, Sora was actually sought after, but it ended up not working out

Crono and Sephirioth are a Mystery

Probably costumes if anything

 

[SKX31]

Tfw we get Hayabusa but it’s this Hayabusa

The NES rep that everyone really wants.

Initially misread his special move as "Big Brain Kick" and now I imagine that move being a Wrestler's Warlock Punch something you pull off when you go for the hardest of reads.

Yeah, but I don't see another Japanese Legacy Pick happening this Pass. Only way I see it happening is if there's another Pass. Yeah, Blame South East Asia for this one.

Huh? Wut? I don't follow. Why would a region where Nintendo's far from as major as, you know, Nintendo's major regions, stop all Japanese legacy pick?

 

[JOJONumber691]

Yeah Sora is definitely a Mii

 

[Louie G.]

Damn people are really leaning into Adol lately huh?

I'm not really convinced, but I suppose effectively inventing the action RPG as we know it counts for something. It's healthy for speculation to discuss characters outside of our usual comfort zone and think outside the box. Even though I don't think Adol will be in or have much attachment toward the character it's nice to see.