Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Koopaul]

If I'm being quite honest, I feel like the aspect of third party characters gives Smash a whole lot of soul. It really sells the "celebration of gaming" it strives itself to be.

I think, and this is probably a controversial opinion, that there are just too many characters in general. Full stop. I feel like the more fighters you have the more they get lost in a sea of faces. We have this phenomena where a new fighter comes out and then everyone forgets about it. It's like if you have a pile of toys, some of them are going to get burried beneath others.

People become less likely to experiment with different ones and the joy and excitement of a particular character getting in will be overshadowed by the next.

It was somewhat like this in the past but never this bad. I don't think it benefits a roster being this jam packed with fighters.

 

[TwiceEXE]

I think, and this is probably a controversial opinion, that there are just too many characters in general. Full stop. I feel like the more fighters you have the more they get lost in a sea of faces. We have this phenomena where a new fighter comes out and then everyone forgets about it. It's like if you have a pile of toys, some of them are going to get burried beneath others.

People become less likely to experiment with different ones and the joy and excitement of a particular character getting in will be overshadowed by the next.

It was somewhat like this in the past but never this bad. I don't think it benefits a roster being this jam packed with fighters.

I don't know. Sure, if the game was only Mario and DK then the matchup would be extremely explored. Even the most casual fans would understand which moves can punish which, without knowing the frame data. But I'd rather let people play whatever they want out of a cast of 100 instead of worrying that people aren't appreciating that DK's nair is only -6 on shield or that Mario's dash attack is his best 2frame option.

 

[Ivander]

But still, Smash would also run the risk of going stale. People will just tune out if all they do from now on is port Ultimate forever with new content.

I think alot of people would be fine with just a port with new content. Like, because of the idea that a game like this will most likely never happen again, I've seen a good amount of people, and some big folks too, who are very okay with the idea of Ultimate getting ported with new content and being expanded upon.

Like the hugest selling point about Ultimate and Smash in general is the characters. And it's one of the reasons why people are okay with an Ultimate port because nobody really knows which characters will stay around. For some, that's a big deal to be concerned about, as we don't know which ones will stay around. So to some people, the idea of porting Smash Ultimate with some new content, especially if some new single player content is added or brought back(like Smash Run), is much more appealing than getting a new game that might not have their favourite characters.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Sakurai made a point that "Everyone Is Here" might never happen again, and it barely happened this time.

He also made a point that each game would be the last, as far back as 64.
Not to mention Ridley, Villager, Pacman...

I am completely in the camp that the game will reboot in the next game- some of the older characters feel more stale compared to the new, and Ultimate can always sell in perpetuity. We still buy Street Fighter II. But going another direction is the steadfast path to 1- switch directors, and 2- shift angles after the end of a saga.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

But still, Smash would also run the risk of going stale. People will just tune out if all they do from now on is port Ultimate forever with new content.

Yeah, you’re right. Just look at League of Legends. That poor game is constantly adding new stuff and there’s no one there to play it. You have to feel bad for them.

 

[RileyXY1]

Sure, nothing will ever live up to Ultimate, but that doesn't mean that they can't try reinventing the series. Besides, Ultimate might become a new Melee in terms of the competitive community.

 

[SharkLord]

I kinda want the next Smash game to just build itself from the ground-up. Not going "Okay, so we're going to keep (X) and drop (Y)...", just a fresh start. Ultimate is the pinnacle of Smash up to now; If we tried this again, Smash 6 would just be stuck in Ultimate's shadow.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think people also undersell what exactly “porting” Ultimate means. I mean, do we really think that Ultimate would have been able to have “Everyone is Here” if it hadn’t been built off of the foundation of Wii U? Who’s to say they can’t do that again? Even then if it was JUST a port with a few added characters and more DLC the game could sustain itself for at least another generation of consoles. The game has enough of a dramatic artstyle to not age TOO bad.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think people also undersell what exactly “porting” Ultimate means. I mean, do we really think that Ultimate would have been able to have “Everyone is Here” if it hadn’t been built off of the foundation of Wii U? Who’s to say they can’t do that again? Even then if it was JUST a port with a few added characters and more DLC the game could sustain itself for at least another generation of consoles. The game has enough of a dramatic artstyle to not age TOO bad.

Heck there’s a lot of things not character related they could improve in the base game as well. A few more non-DLC music tracks (this is all assuming it’s Ultimate Deluxe or something), more bosses, maybe some new WoL maps/spirit rearrangements on existing WoL maps... maybe putting Ultimate’s DLC characters on the maps for Ult Deluxe’s WoL???

 

[Dinoman96]

Sure, nothing will ever live up to Ultimate, but that doesn't mean that they can't try reinventing the series. Besides, Ultimate might become a new Melee in terms of the competitive community.

What people need to realize is that the things people think that Smash should be rebooted for (i.e revamped movesets or totally different gameplay style) aren't even really what the masses are even asking for.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Also, new modes could benefit a hypothetical Ultimate Deluxe greatly. Those include Boss Rush (including Galeem, Dharkon, and any new bosses they introduce in Ult Deluxe... maybe the return of Tabuu too?), Break the Targets, and Master Hand Mode - like the penultimate battle of WoL where you fight all those clones. Think Galactus Mode in UMVC3, and you can even have clones of Kirby or the DLC appear, swap alignments for the clones etc

 

[RileyXY1]

What people need to realize is that the things people think that Smash should be rebooted for (i.e revamped movesets or totally different gameplay style) aren't even really what the masses are even asking for.

But it's what a future Smash game needs in order to separate itself from Ultimate.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'd rather the next game focus on new content, I see returning content as more of a happy bonus. It's often sad to see a beloved character not make the cut, but that's what DLC is for.

Plus, let's not kid ourselves. The only thing the fanbase cares about is newcomers. As long as they deliver on that front we'll forgive them anything else and call that the best Smash ever.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Smash is not like Pokemon where it can sell by virtue of its brand name.

Yes it is.

But it's what a future Smash game needs in order to separate itself from Ultimate.

It shouldn't separate itself from Ultimate.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Honestly, I could see Sakurai stepping away and Nintendo putting the whole franchise on indefinite hiatus, a la Mother 3, before they go back to a 15 Character Smash Bros. Game. Smash’s biggest draw is its dream come true material and pulling that curtain back to just a few characters would alienate a pretty expansive majority of Smash’s casual appeal.

 

[Dinoman96]

Honestly, I could see Sakurai stepping away and Nintendo putting the whole franchise on indefinite hiatus, a la Mother 3, before they go back to a 15 Character Smash Bros. Game. Smash’s biggest draw is its dream come true material and pulling that curtain back to just a few characters would alienate a pretty expansive majority of Smash’s casual appeal.

lmfao no way

Smash is one of their biggest selling franchises ever, they're not giving it the ****ing Mother treatment

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

lmfao no way

Smash is one of their biggest selling franchises ever, they're not giving it the ****ing Mother treatment

I can honestly see them doing that more than I can see them going back to a smaller roster. At the point they eliminate over half the roster in favor of a select few they also eliminate half of their fanbase. Whether we want to admit it or not people don’t buy Smash for it being Smash. They buy it for the characters. The Smash fanbase is an amalgamation of a bunch of other fanbases. Them cutting out some of those fanbases are going to end up putting a dent in sales from Ultimate to next Smash.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

As I see it, the two big problems with porting Ultimate are licensing costs and the Switch's install base. This isn't a Mario Kart 8 situation where almost nobody had the system. There will be people who won't buy the game again because they essentially have it already, and the absurd licensing costs would dig into profits on top of that. At that point it might not be worth doing on a cost analysis level. Maybe it would. I don't know. But ports do generally sell less than a brand new game. Just something to keep in mind.

I do think a game based on Ultimate and tweaked slightly could be interesting. Chopping the input delay in half would change things up on its own, and other improvements like online or increasing character complexity a little bit would be nice. At the same time I don't really think that's the direction the next game will go. Not for development reasons, but because it would be a really expensive for what it is and legally complicated.

I still think a new game can stand on its own as long as it has good value somewhere. Just having a really good mode selection would go a long way, as would things like custom colors and extra costumes. People will be upset no matter what the next game does. The game just has to give people a reason to be excited as well.

 

[Ivander]

-More bosses would be nice. Heck, with the DLC characters out, it'd be cool to see bosses related to the DLC characters like Gruntilda or Hedlock.
-More music is always good. Although I doubt this will help Final Fantasy VII or Dragon Quest....unless Square would like to promote FFVII Remake music.
-Boss Rush or Boss Select still needs to happen at some point. Seriously...

-I guess the only thing that I really want that I don't know is ever going to happen is some non-character focused events. Like some Platform stages like Cuphead for World of Light. Or Smash Run returning.
Heck, I'd love to see a return of the one end mode for Smash Run where you fight a whole bunch of regular enemies, like the Mario enemies like Goombas or Magikoopas or the Kirby enemies like the Waddle Dees, Bonkers, etc. Like wouldn't that be awesome? If they brought in the Smash Run enemies or even new mooks to be used as enemies that you fight in Classic mode or in Spirit events alongside the Spirit character you're fighting.
Like imagine fighting the Castlevania Medusa spirit and during her fight, you have Medusa Heads flying back and forth in the stage that you have to avoid while fighting the character. Or in the Bonkers spirit fight, you face against not only the character representing Bonkers, but also a regular Bonkers enemy kinda like the Assist Trophy fights.
Like that was what I loved about Smash Run was being able to use your favorite characters to fight different enemies from the series. And I would love some form of that to return, whether it'd be Smash Run itself or some of the enemies you face as fight-able enemies in Classic Mode or Spirit battles.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Honestly, I could see Sakurai stepping away and Nintendo putting the whole franchise on indefinite hiatus, a la Mother 3, before they go back to a 15 Character Smash Bros. Game. Smash’s biggest draw is its dream come true material and pulling that curtain back to just a few characters would alienate a pretty expansive majority of Smash’s casual appeal.

Sakurai leaves
Miyamoto: "No more Smash games until we can do something completely different that no Smash fan will like with it. What's our newest dumb peripheral?"

Like, seriously, Sakurai's attitude on development is like the exact opposite of Shiggy's.
Shig: "Okay, so here's all the new control schemes of our new console."
Sak: "Uh huh. Listen, I need to be able to plug Gamecube controllers into this."

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Maybe also some new Assist Trophies for the series introduced in Ultimate’s DLC: Jessica Albert (Dragon Quest VIII), Queen (Persona 5), Kyo or Athena (SNK), the Gatekeeper from Three Houses who functions like Mr. Resetti in Brawl

and for frick’s sake, Aerith as the FFVII AT, using Healing Wind to heal everyone, even the enemies. Or Sephiroth, idc but FFVII got snubbed in base Ult while Bayonetta and SF got ATs

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It's a possibility Sakurai takes a long break say 5 or more years and then return to doing Smash.

Though knowing him being the workaholic he is and enjoying his work, I'm doubtful of that and will probably tackle smaller projects like Kid Icarus Uprising 2.

 

[Jerry98]

I'll just leave a comment I made some months ago about the future of Smash.

Sakurai said it more than once: a new Smash won't have a huge roster like Ultimate has. In case they will develop a new Smash game after Ultimate, they must come up with new modes and new ways of playing.
The idea of Ultimate being the last game of the series for real and becoming a live service game is not that bad imho. But it must be done in the right way! It would be updated every once in a while (3/4 years maybe?) with new content in the form of "seasons", just like Fortnite (I guess... I actually never played it) and the cost for every season would be something like 30 to 40 $/€. This approach will allow Nintendo to publish the game on their next consoles too! Then it could be great to pay a lower price for a season if you have already bought one or both the dlcs. This is not a thing Nintendo would do, but let's pretend it's a possibility.
Anyway, the base game will still be the same we have now + the 2 Fighter Passes, but every 3/4 years they drop a new season: new characters will join the roster, new stages and music, new modes and maybe also new gameplay. For example in Season 2 they change characters gameplay and frame data and they make a more Melee-like gameplay: in Season 3 a Brawl-like gameplay and so on. The best thing would be giving us the chance to play every single season that has come out whenever we want.
I can't actually think of a better way to make a new Smash game as majestic as Ultimate. I'm also thinking about how the encyclopedic value of the game would increase! So I guess I would totally support this idea, if made in the right way.


Now... I can see two major flaws in all of this. This project would require an insane effort in balancing the game, but it should be noted how well they are handling that in Ultimate. The second issues is about the characters rights and the licenses. I don't really know how they would deal with that.

 

[pupNapoleon]

What people need to realize is that the things people think that Smash should be rebooted for (i.e revamped movesets or totally different gameplay style) aren't even really what the masses are even asking for.

Ah yes... the masses who asked for Terry.
Gotta love the things we tell ourselves as a community

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I dunno, I’m of the mindset of why would you start over and make less money when they’ve made $55 Dollars on everyone who’s bought the passes which at this point seems to be PRETTY good? Why would you make another $60 game that’s likely going to sell less when you can just as easily keep the passes coming for $25-30 and basically end up Tripling or Quadrupling your profit? Especially with a game like Ultimate where it could easily be brought over in Deluxe fashion and continued from there. People point out licensing but I don’t see licensing being that much of an issue for a port of a game that they’ve already contracted. Maybe there is? But who can say?

 

[SharkLord]

Alright, where has the Falcom talk gone now-

>We're back to cuts and Smash 6 again

Alright bro
I'm boutta head out

 

[Rie Sonomura]

All I’m saying is

characters are important yes, they’re the main attraction

but side features and QoL changes help a lot too, and there’s a lot of features and misc details I feel could be fine tuned too

it just really bothers me if those kinks aren’t ironed out y know

 

[3BitSaurus]

Alright, where has the Falcom talk gone now-

>We're back to cuts and Smash 6 again

Alright bro
I'm boutta head out

Please don't cut the conversation short...

 

[7NATOR]

Look, Smash 6 Can get away with cutting the Roster, as long as they have very interesting Features in it, like

-Very Popular Newcomers you can't get in Ultimate, so Say if Characters like Crash, Scorpion, Reimu, Master Chief, Kratos can't get into Ultimate, Put them in Smash 6 and use them as a Selling Point

-Some Very Interesting Modes. Return of Smash Run, Perhaps an Expansive Single Player with Cutscenes like Subspace, but better. Focus on Customization in terms of Looks, Moves, Intros, etc like with MK11. A Sandbox mode where you can be creative with the Game rules and stages like Mario Maker. A Battle Royale mode where 99 players can duke it out at the Same time

-Massivly Improved Gameplay with new interesting elements, like Maybe Air Dashing, access to more than 4 Specials at once, Final Smashes that are Balanced around both casual and Competetive, Animation Canceling for perhaps more Combos, etc

-Improved Online

-This point can be seperate from the Rest of the points, but doing a Whole Crossover with something like Disney, Jump Anime, DC, etc would be a massive selling point, as Finally people might have a chance to use Spider Man, Mickey Mouse, Goku, Naruto, Batman, Super Man against Mario

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

All I’m saying is

characters are important yes, they’re the main attraction

but side features and QoL changes help a lot too, and there’s a lot of features and misc details I feel could be fine tuned too

it just really bothers me if those kinks aren’t ironed out y know

I've seen people who just want the stage creator to be more robust.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I've seen people who just want the stage creator to be more robust.

That’s valid too, I miss conveyor belts like how brawl did

Look, Smash 6 Can get away with cutting the Roster, as long as they have very interesting Features in it, like

-Very Popular Newcomers you can't get in Ultimate, so Say if Characters like Crash, Scorpion, Reimu, Master Chief, Kratos can't get into Ultimate, Put them in Smash 6 and use them as a Selling Point

-Some Very Interesting Modes. Return of Smash Run, Perhaps an Expansive Single Player with Cutscenes like Subspace, but better. Focus on Customization in terms of Looks, Moves, Intros, etc like with MK11. A Sandbox mode where you can be creative with the Game rules and stages like Mario Maker. A Battle Royale mode where 99 players can duke it out at the Same time

-Massivly Improved Gameplay with new interesting elements, like Maybe Air Dashing, access to more than 4 Specials at once, Final Smashes that are Balanced around both casual and Competetive, Animation Canceling for perhaps more Combos, etc

-Improved Online

-This point can be seperate from the Rest of the points, but doing a Whole Crossover with something like Disney, Jump Anime, DC, etc would be a massive selling point, as Finally people might have a chance to use Spider Man, Mickey Mouse, Goku, Naruto, Batman, Super Man against Mario

it was fine up until you got to the non-video-game characters part tbh

 

[spicynun]

I would unironically love a Super Smash Kart

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

That is one way I think they could get away with Smash 6. Don’t have it be Smash 6. Let it be Nintendo vs. Disney or whatever. Cut the roster to the main attractions, let the other half be Disney and boom. No gripes. Why? Because it takes the attention off of that game being a sequel to the biggest crossover in media to now being a completely different type of biggest crossover in media.

 

[7NATOR]

it was fine up until you got to the non-video-game characters part tbh

If Sakurai had not deconfirmed non Video game characters, you know people would be Hype for characters like Goku and Batman and Mickey mouse. I Mean, a Good argument can be made that keeping these characters out is Erasing a part of gaming history, especially in cases like Batman where their Game Series (Arkham) was influential to how games are made even today

I'm just saying, The easiest way for Smash 6 to succeed where Ultimate will always fail is if they base a whole game around crossing over with somehting Like Disney, DC, Jump Anime. I Imagine it's much more worth it to go through all the Licensing trouble with these companies if you are making a whole game around it than if you are just adding 1 character from there.

 

[cashregister9]

I still think a 3D smash brothers game like Power stone but with a budget could be a selling point in and of itself.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I still want Nintendo vs. Capcom...

Oh well, maybe in another 5 years.

 

[Deleted member]

It's a possibility Sakurai takes a long break say 5 or more years and then return to doing Smash.

Though knowing him being the workaholic he is and enjoying his work, I'm doubtful of that and will probably tackle smaller projects like Kid Icarus Uprising 2.

It takes like 5 years just to make the game to begin with apparently. In of those recent interviews, Sakurai said he'd been working with the Minecraft developer for Steve for the last 5 years. If he were to take a 5 year break before starting, then an entire Nintendo Console Generation would go by before a new Smash Bros. game would be made (since Consoles tend to have around a 7 year lifespan).

 

[SirBillyBob]

Maybe also some new Assist Trophies for the series introduced in Ultimate’s DLC: Jessica Albert (Dragon Quest VIII), Queen (Persona 5), Kyo or Athena (SNK), the Gatekeeper from Three Houses who functions like Mr. Resetti in Brawl

and for frick’s sake, Aerith as the FFVII AT, using Healing Wind to heal everyone, even the enemies. Or Sephiroth, idc but FFVII got snubbed in base Ult while Bayonetta and SF got ATs

Make her able to be KO'd for the memes.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Make her able to be KO'd for the memes.

TOO SOON

yes, 23 years too soon, but TOO SOON NEVERTHELESS

 

[7NATOR]

Unless Sakurai is fully retiring from Game Development, Sakurai will have to work on Something after Ultimate Eventually, even if not Smash.

I Don't know how His Company exactly works, considering the only Permanent Employees of Sora LTD. seem to be Sakurai himself and his Wife, and everyone else is Contracted and stuff. I will just say that if he does Take a break, I don't know if it will be very long. I could see him directing a Smaller Game since Smash is always a Big Project. Sometimes after cooking a Extravagent meal, the next day you might just want to Make someting smaller, or cook Frozen food or something. might be the case here

I will say that the people that do the Modeling, Programing, Animating, Art Direction, Composition, Balancing, etc probably won't take long breaks after they are done, Since I doubt they be raking in as much money as Sakurai to be taking breaks like that. I Imagine most of them would go back to Namco and work on whatever projects they got going on there.